Topic: Bitcoin and Paypal (Read 2007 times)

Receipts help prove it but I have seen scam thread's with receipts on trading BTC for cards.  So it is not fool proof.  Credit card scammers sadly effect everything from bitcoin trading on like local bitcoin forum, even to items on ebay with paypal.

So one set of criminal really is pretty wide reaching on what they effect.  Which is sad but I don't see card scammers stopping any time soon.

There are intermediate sale sites like cryptothrift etc... where the site holds the funds until the buyer confirm receipt of the item, also localbitcoins escrow works the same way too in the general concept.

Centralized(Paypal) Vs. Decentralized(Bitcoin)
Any Paypal user, whether a buyer or a seller, will at some point run into issues with Paypal's centralized structure.  For instance, I am on my second Paypal account currently after my first account was frozen, and all attached cards and banks were banned from future Paypal use.  I had to create an entirely new bank account just to use Paypal due to arbitrary freezing of my first account.  Bitcoin, on the other hand, is decentralized and I am completely certain that nobody has the ability to limit my access to my Bitcoin wallet, or to move funds from my Bitcoin wallet.
Also Paypal charges nearly 3% for transactions between people while bitcoin transactions are almost 0%

Many people believe that to sell bitcoins, if Paypal is available as an option would be great. But that is not at all needed right now. Even some days Paypal will implement that option but at that time you need not to sell your bitcoins.

At the moment, I do not feel comfortable exchanging Bitcoins for PayPal since any dispute always is decided in the buyers favor. Henceforth, it becomes difficult to find sellers here in this forum and even Bitcoinexchange. I tend to find an e-transfer interact deal on localbitcoin.com when I need to do an exchange, but even then it is reverse-able and you have to trust the person you're selling to.

Well PayPal is more integrated in many platforms mainly because it is something easier for people to understand they use PayPal to buy or sell things but it is not a currency itself rather i believe as someone has already stated a platform. That being said with escrow there are sites that you can buy and sell that offer escrow services such as cryptothrift or now know as bitify. It is a pain at times but offers security for the buyer and seller. With bitcoin escrow is the best protection when doing transactions for items or services.

The thing to keep in mind with BTC though is there is no fee to use it PayPal charges a fee for everything anymore seriously it's ridiculous. And even with their so called "buyer protection" or "seller protection" you can still get screwed very easy with paypal look up some of the ebay stories even with high volume sellers that have perfect ratings will be screwed over. BTC takes all that away no one can go back two weeks or even a month and say o something happened i need my money back then your left with loss of product and owing someone money.

Another thing to keep in mind is BTC is still foreign to majority of people sure they may have heard of it but most don't really know what it is or care. That will change once places like walmart dollar stores best buy whatever start to accept it in their stores like a lot of them do with paypal now. That could be many years away or next year hard to say but eventually BTC will be accepted virtually everywhere it's a digital currency for a digital age.

Dont trust Paypal..
They just rip your Money off bro.. trust me I just lost a small Amount with no reason to a Company.. I dont know why by now..

regards
lama-hunter

Depends on item.  Some items sadly you need the longer warranty.  Anything digital I'm a little afraid of online.  That it is bought from say a carded source.

If you bought something with digital content, or something with lifetime (tivos for example) you need longer as if it's carded they shut it down eventually... but not in 6-7 day's most likely.

So I would agree as a seller on miners I would like less day's on paypal.  But other items as buyer it does serve valid purpose.

That is without a card linked to the paypal account is what I was referring too. I can only speak from what I have on my account. Using a credit card on an account, I can't speak for how many days chargebacks are up until because those numbers aren't disclosed to people who don't have them on their account, such as myself.
If that is so, then what a RIP.

Everything can be done if you give it time. Beating PayPal at the moment is impossible, but it can be done step by step in the comming years. People need to step up and stop using PayPal.

Paypal became the endustry standard because of ebay for years. It is a very hard task to make people use bitcoin instead of paypal with years of experience. It is nearly impossible at  the moment.

chargeback is up to 180, it depend on the circuit, with mastercard for example is longer, with visa too, but with american express it shorter, should be what you've wrote

Yep it should be 6-7 days, or even without chargeback, there is no reason for it, if you buy something then you own it. Try sell it it elsewhere lol.

People can give out voluntary warranty if they want, but you just cant force them to have chargeback system, its unfair.

Yes. Chargebacks from what I understand can be up to 80-90 days. That is alot of time to decide if you want to return something and get your money back.

I would agree PayPal and Bitcoin could not be more different.  Bitcoin is a forum of money.  Paypal is a service to send money.

So Bitcoin is actually more like fiat money then paypal.   But with crypto currency you can mine/send it over internet which fiat cannot with out service or middle man.  In bitcoin there is not that middle man unless you use escrow.

And people who don't really understand about bitcoin will blame bitcoin is ponzi lol.

Well bitcoin and PayPal is really different, in transaction, fees, network and architecture form.

If you sell on PP you are screwed because in disputes they tend to lean towards the buyer side.

And also the chargeback shit makes its horrible. Better use bitcoin, its irreversible,and with proper escrow, you can eliminate scams to 0.000000001%

From what I understand, Neteller allows this service as well. Am I correct in this assumption?

Mexxer, you messaged me with a question - it's your comment/explanation that I don't agree with. You're right that it was confusing that I quoted you and the OP...I think I was feeling lazy at the time I wrote the post.

You have right, BTC still is a bit complicated to go to the mainstream, but it can change very soon.. are coming projects like for example this one: https://openbazaar.org/   

Only problem with bitcoins is if you get scammed nothing can be done.

The problem I see surrounding buyer/seller protection is on whether does it work the way it is intended to be in the first place. It's more like a system that offer ways for people to abuse and manipulate things they want to. If you read forums, needless to say there are countless number of threads on how people actually get scammed despite having the so-called protection system in place.

So for me, it's about finding ways to conduct the business dealing and how to trade with caution because in the end, whether you are buying or selling with paypal or bitcoin, it won't turn out to be any different.

Paypal is more widely used and known by the general public due to the ease of linking bank accounts and credit cards to paypal. Bitcoin is much harder to buy. Buyer/seller protection usually works well for physical goods for digital goods, like game credits and virtual things, it is hard for paypal to cover as the seller cannot provide proof. You can avoid escrow when you are trusted enough.

I don't agree with this explanation or analogy.

PayPal acts as a payment intermediary and offers payment protection. I don't think a service like this exists that deals with bitcoin payments. The current system for bitcoin is no different than you selling your goods online for Dollars and facilitate the transactionson your own. If you don't want to use escrow you can require someone send you payment first and if you reneg they can hit you with a negative Trust rating on this site.

OP, check this out - https://openbazaar.org/

This is a concerted attempt to make a Bitcoin only marketplace with protections built in. It's not live yet and I really don't know how big it'll be, until there are smartphone apps and it's accessible through a browser I really can't see it blowing up, but there's a lot of potential there.

You're probably 10-15 years too early to consider BTC sales as attractive to the average consumer.

Because its easier and faster to use paypal, easier user experience, still bitcoin is so much better store of value and easier in specific sales areas.

Bitcoin and paypal co-ordination would boost bitcoin exchange as paypal currently presence in many country with direct bank deposit options. Whereas Payza allows users to fund accounts directly with bitcoin, if paypal starts like that then many people would find a easier way to sell their bitcoin.

For selling items via PayPal, Ebay is good as they offer a seller protection but for converting BTC to PayPal, there are very few trusted websites these exchanges and many use Virwox or Localbitcoins. It's advised not to use this forum for PP exchanges as everyday there are chargeback scams that happen. Escrows aren't going to help you in case there's a chargeback.

be carfull with btc and paypal theres like 30% scams too... i just warning the trades need escrow even into localbitcoins and stuff even like pp2btc and btc2pp

If you gain enough trust on the forums escorw wont be needed.

Yes I signed up for bitpay. I can accept BTC as payments however still doesn't help the whole escrow thing.

Well, do you ever heard about BitPay.
This is a global bitcoin payment service provider that offer the world's fastest and safest payment option.

Buyer protection is certainly something that's really easy with PP but complicated with BTC.
However, I think the main reason for the discrepancy is the difference in numbers between Paypal users versus bitcoin users.
It's just very predictable that when only 1% of your shop users have bitcoins, the maximum percentage of sales with bitcoin will be 1% (it might be less, because many bitcoin users also have Paypal and might prefer to use it due to the buyer protection).

But your escrow point is valid, too.
Using escrow is currently difficult because buyer and seller need to agree on an escrow that both trust, which can take some time for a first time buyer.
It would probably be faster if escrow providers were more widely known and trusted, so that your shop's checkout page could just offer escrow with 3 or 5 escrow providers that you trust, and the buyer would recognize at least two of them as trustworthy and select one of them, just as he could select between different payment options. In addition, buyer would need to securely communicate with escrow without seller being able to "impersonate" a trustworthy escrow.

All of this infrastructure needs to be set up and needs to be accepted by buyers. Huge payment providers have much more incentive (and much more spendable money) to build and promote such infrastructure. If we want this to happen in bitcoin-land, we (or rather escrow providers together with shop owners) should get together to implement and promote such an infrastructure.

Onkel Paul

Paypal is a payment gateway while bitcoin is meant to be a "invention" which later got a price tagged along. Anyway coming back to topic:
1) It has become simple for merchants to use bitcoin as a payment system due to emergence of services like BitPay .
2) BitCoin is used more often in trades rather than for buying things, it has still yet to catch up .
3) If "buyer's protection" was done it would be the same case as : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-would-you-do-if-it-became-reversible-like-paypal-1195135 and you can see how so many people disagree on it. Bitcoin is a decentralized currency anyway, so its not possible.

Being new(ish) to bitcoin, I've noticed it MUCH harder to sell products online and accept bitcoin as a form of payment. Paypal sales are steady and people tend to rather use paypal than bitcoin to buy things. (in my exp anyway)

I wish bitcoin could somehow figure a (buyer/seller protection) like paypal. It's alot of work sending items to escrows/ waiting for them to get the item/ then them sending item to buyer etc.

I may be totally out there on this,lol also sorry if i don't make much sense either. Sometimes its hard to type what i'm really thinking,lol