Topic: Bitcoin and the economy (Read 396 times)

I thought of this too. It was puzzling me before why some countries do not allow the use of cryptocurrency or anything related to it in their country despite the opportunities and benefits it could offer them. Until it dawned on me that not all of us have the same perspective, not all of us have the same level of understanding and open-mindedness, and not all of us have the same priorities. Each country's goals differ from one another depending on who their leaders are and what kind of governance they have. We really can't please all of them and let them join our community if they don't want to. I guess we just have to do our part which is to inform and encourage, then it would be up to them if they would take the opportunity handed to them or reject it. Either way, it would be good because if they would join, our community would grow bigger, if they won't it's okay as well because we don't want people who are entering to be here half-baked.

But to answer your question, honestly speaking, the effect wouldn't be manifested right away. I think the result would take some time to be felt in their economy most especially in those developing countries. Although it's good that they made a bold and courageous move to make bitcoin legal tender and make crypto, in general, an allowable and legal entity because that could have an impact in terms of taxes that they could collect as well as the demand of the people to use the certain features to experience convenience.

Yes, that's right, here we have freedom over our own finances without anyone controlling us. That's why the government is afraid of it, they don't want to lose something that they have been controlling for so long.
Now many are aware of it, so they are increasingly aggressive to create waves of fear to every user.
On the other hand, those who create fear, I think they are also taking advantage, just like they also own assets in crypto, only they don't publish it.

You will see that most of the countries that banned Bitcoin has some kind of Autocratic leadership or authoritarian government. The reason why they are banning Bitcoin is simple, because it threatens their control of their people.

They do not want people to have financial freedom or for them to think for themselves. They want to control their money in the corrupt Banking system and they want their people to be poor and dependent on them. 

Bitcoin gives people financial freedom and the choice not to be controlled. Their financial transactions are also pseudo anonymous and most governments hate that. 

something new, like bitcoin, which made it famous all over the world, of course caught the attention of scholars, even though there were actually differences of opinion between several scholars. I think that as long as the government still gives space to try, we will return the opinions of different scholars to ourselves, whether we will carry on this business and continue or not, according to our personal conscience.

I never really understood religion becoming a bit of mix with the law. Religion is a personal thing right? I mean it should be a personal thing, why would something between me and my god should be a law? And for some nations, it is actually like that, they end up being governed by religion and this results with a lot of problems.

If it was like that all around then I would totally understand it to a point but most of the time the rich and powerful end up doing things that are not allowed in religion, and they just keep the public under their religious law. This is the problem for crypto as well, maybe in some parts of the world it will be banned because of religion or said to be banned because of religion and meanwhile rich would invest in it anyway.

I don’t remember seeing in the news that there is any religion that has forbidden people from making use of cryptocurrency. In countries where Bitcoin has been banned, it is usually the government that does it, and it has nothing to do with religion.

And moreover I don’t see how making use of Bitcoin or investing in it is a sin, how exactly is that even a sin? Religion will only forbid you from doing things which are considered a sinful act in the face of God, and Bitcoin is not a sin. Bitcoin is simply a technology that was even introduced to help our lives, and I can bet that a lot of us here that our lives changed when we started making use of bitcoin.

I think every countries ought to embrace Bitcoin.

What is ban is ban which means it illegal to use by the citizens that country as simple as that brother. If the government of a country has made Public that the use of Bitcoin ban and her citizens are still making use or accepting it at a legal tender it means they aren't obeying the law of the land which should not be encouraged.

Banks and governments are not above lying when it comes to their interests, it is obvious that if El Salvador begins to face some economic issues those issues are going to be immediately blamed on bitcoin and anything that has any remote connection to it, they will do this simply because they are scared that people are trying to find a way to avoid their policies which have created so much inflation around the world, and if they have to lie to achieve this they will do it, as they did by blaming all the inflation we are going through to supply issues, something that we know cannot be true.

It is quite logical, because the government is also human and they have a greedy nature even more than ordinary humans and they adopt I think the reason for the welfare of the people is not the first reason.
I don't think the government is bad because indeed there must be some good ones, but what I see and what I feel now is that more of them are bad than those who actually work for the welfare of the people.
I also quite agree that bitcoin can't really cover the economy because it's not the job of bitcoin itself, I think

The growth of those who believe in that "extra profit" motto had been exponential, thanks to those who have been spreading wrong information about Bitcoin on social media. Bitcoin being a currency was suddenly forgotten and it became an asset or a tool for high yield investments scams.
OP was even affected by that rampant mistake and the proof is how he asked it.
Staking was the only option to create more coins but that means taking the higher risk. Bitcoin, on the other hand, doesn't have that kind of option and if anyone says there is, that's obviously a scam.

I'm afraid it is not about people. Neither is it about their welfare nor their bright future. This is only about governments trying to preserve their power and dominion. So if a government allows the use of Bitcoin, it does not necessarily mean such government cares about the people and their future. It could simply mean something else.

Anyway, I guess the view that we could quickly earn extra profit from Bitcoin might not really be what Bitcoin is truly all about. I also doubt that Bitcoin has a high potential to cover any economy. Neither do I believe that Bitcoin could be used to eradicate poverty.

I firmly believe that only those governments who want to support their people and look for their bright future will accept the bitcoins and promote them. Governments who don't want to look at their people and only want to eat their money by applying high taxes will never accept bitcoin and stop everyone from utilizing it. Everybody knows that bitcoin has many benefits, and we can quickly earn extra profit. However, these governments are blind and act like they don't know about anything related to cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin has a high potential to cover any economy. With the help of bitcoins, we can remove poverty from one nation, but they're blind.

Japan made it legal but it doesn't affect much positively. The reason is Japan is already modernized when it comes to payment options so Bitcoin will just be another asset to them. I am not giving up on my dream though that someday Bitcoin will just be like a normal money to us. Or better.
But right now, all we could see are negative feedbacks because most investors are just thinking of it as an asset. First and what should not be forgotten is it is a currency, crypto. The expectation is for the price to be higher an not the value and this are the reasons why countries would not let it in. It became a gateway for tax evasion, money laundering and so on. 1 Bitcoin should be valued as 1 Bitcoin and not against any currency but I think we are far from that to happen.

It’s not bad for any country to accept Bitcoin or even make it a legal tender. Those ones that have been saying that bitcoin is bad are doing it because they lack knowledge of what bitcoin is. Some have said that Bitcoin is being used to fund terrorism, but what proof do they have for that, when exactly was bitcoin ever used to fund terrorism that we know of? They can’t even say this and prove it at all. What they are saying is just an assumption. El Salvador adoption of Bitcoin as a legal tender is not bad, I believe that if they are able to make proper plans on how bitcoin would benefit them, it is going to work out for sure.

In my own idea, we can never see all the countries in the world accepting bitcoin and that's because of their situation, for some strong countries with stronger fiat currencies this would be really hard for them to accept such a thing because they always prefer to use their currency and even make other countries to use their currency, so they would stand against any other country including bitcoin. that's why I donat expect to see some strong countries are accepting bitcoin, however, everything is possible. On the other hand for countries like El Salvador with bad economic situations, bitcoin can be a chance to save them from the current situations so they did accept it.

I guess it will not be easy to speed up the process of adopting bitcoin in many countries as that will depend on each government approval. But I agree with the bold part that @perfect999 mentions that if many more people from many countries use bitcoin, the adoption process will continue and grow. It will reach the nation because it starts from the personal and then community and will become wider.

The government can state bitcoin is illegal for a while but they can not still hold that statement, especially if their citizen can benefit from bitcoin. And sooner or later, the government will realize that using bitcoin for their people and country can benefit too.

Actually I would probably be happier when I see a country recognize bitcoin, it doesn't matter if they adopt it or not but recognition is something different.
With this recognition, I feel that it will be more suitable for bitcoin, especially for its lovers in various countries, compared to the adoption of that country.
it's true that adoption is something that is quite good but of course there must be an acknowledgment of that first

Personally, I don’t think there is the need for every country in the world to adopt Bitcoin, it is still going to flourish whether they do it or not. To me, what really matters is that there are people who are making use of it.

Even in countries where it is illegal, as long as people have gotten to know what bitcoin is in that country, I believe that there are many people who would still continue making use of it even if it’s declared illegal. That’s the good thing about decentralization, nobody stops people from making use of bitcoin, not even the government. The government doesn’t know that you’re making use of bitcoin except that you make it known to them.

The adoption and acceptance of Bitcoin are still various in each country.
There are some that accept Bitcoin as a legal tender with their high Bitcoin adoption for their countries.
There are some countries that don't legalize Bitcoin as legal tender or currency, but they allow the use of Bitcoin as an asset or commodity which available for investment and trading with risks owned by the doers.
And there are also some countries that exactly ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
Well, there are many opinions about the pros and cons of Bitcoin itself, both for the economy and other interests including politics.
I personally still believe that Bitcoin is something important in the economy and this will exactly have a chance to be a big part of the world economy. It may be still a matter of time, need more time to be able to adapt to many more countries. Moreover with the special benefits of Bitcoin itself.

El Salvador hardly bought any bitcoin at all, I think it might have been something in the tens of millions which has virtually no effect on the economy. No, it was not due to Bitcoin adoption that the debt/GDP ratio spiraled out of control. It was just due to COVID where the entire global economy tanked, and they have since not recovered. Nearly every country that began to limit their economy ran into uncontrollable debt problems, and they did not have the GDP to support such spending. Ironically enough, had BTC adoption occurred much earlier, they wouldn't have ran into an issue with the debt.

The government and the CBDC are one and the same entity, born to fight Bitcoin. But we don't want our control and privacy to be in their hands. Any policies regarding restrictions and aspects that make control over the government always become a financial center that should be monitored regularly. Bitcoin cannot be resisted, but always strives to be silenced and not operate freely. Such a policy that often discredits Bitcoin as the only enemy of the bank. Any country that still doesn't want Bitcoin to exist is natural, but for users it has taken away their financial freedom.

This is the fight against bitcoin. The identity of every country is important for them and no government head wants to be known as the particular person who gave up there identify. The CBDC is introduced aa the digital aspect of cryptocurrency. We don't see any reason for that struggle between governments to ban btc as they only selfish to protect identify .

Wasn’t the president of Turkey just a few days ago telling people that they should keep their national currency and that using any other currency was not something they should do? I agree with you that bitcoin is perfect for countries like Turkey which are going through such a huge crisis because of the mismanagement of the government, but that is precisely why it is difficult, as no government wants to lose control of their currency as that gives them huge power.

I do not understand why bitcoin is a two edged sword. Bitcoin is a revolutionary movement. One funny thing about it is that, as one country is banning it, another is setting plans to adopting it.
It has numerous enemies as well as huge friends. It is the friend of the people but an enemy to the government.
Yet, many people fighting Bitcoin now are still afraid of not joining it, because they might turn out to be the greatest loosers when Bitcoin is finally proven to be a successful.

Taxes are where politicians get their money. So, they don't like something that will be kept hidden from them. That is Bitcoin. People do not need to declare it as their asset. It could just sit in one wallet and no one will ever know as long you don't sign it with your name in it. That is what they are scared about and because of that they don't even need to have a debate if it needs to be accepted or not. Obviously, it shouldn't be or they will lose everything and their corrupted ways. I am sure the central bank will back them up with that decision.

I see if the country of el salvador wants to fully adopt bitcoin in their economy and even they have legalized bitcoin as a legal payment in the country, and even during a bad market like today, the president of el Salvador took a pretty bold step by investing $15 million to add to their portfolio of bitcoin holdings, according to several existing sources, currently el salvador has almost 1500 BTC as their state asset and this proves that el salvador has had a long plan and also great confidence in the prospect of a bright bitcoin future,  maybe the current downturn will make some of their citizens panic, but I don't think it will make them lose faith in bitcoin.

I think they have an knowledge but lack of experience since it was new to them but not all , we could really say that newbies are going to panic sell but it will be overcome later on since they will learn from their mistakes. Not just el Salvador but all of the newbies in crypto. That is why knowledge is power and learn from your mistakes as it makes you stronger

This is one of the things the government has to do because it is part of the nature of bitcoin with current and other unknown phenomena that make them worry or panic, so the government of El Salvador should educate its citizens about the whole phenomenon happening to bitcoin.

and requires a long process to be perfect because not everyone understands and understands bitcoin briefly for El Salvadorans but over time all citizens will get used to all the phenomena that occur in bitcoin and will also enjoy the benefits.

Exactly but sometimes, you need a little push so that you speed up the process which I think is the best thing because it's going to insure that you're technology is going to be used and that people will immediately enjoy the benefits of using it and you can get the profits much faster. I think that we need to speed up the adoption of bitcoin in many countries because I feel like the slower we get, the detractors will arrive first and plant the idea that bitcoin is bad before even trying.

That will be the case if majority of them hodl or have a patience to wait for something good to come with bitcoin, but unfortunately most of the citizens of El Salvador are newbies so maybe they will get panic once seeing the market condition today so hope their government guide them and educate that this is normal phenomenon on crypto industry.

Same with the Russian news as of late, they wanted to ban that involves bitcoin. In any case, developing countries such as El Salvador should really adopt bitcoin. I mean the effects could be huge for their economy, what if they invest their wealth and then wait for the bull run, for sure they are going to profit from it. And their people using bitcoin to buy things could also make the bitcoin economy flourish. So it's really a win-win and could really be just a matter of time before another developing countries adopt bitcoin legally.

If I remember it right, the gov banned the businesses from accepting crypto. They didn't ban mining, they didn't ban ownership or trading. I believe that happened because it would make it a mess to calculate the taxes. The accountants/businesses may try some shady tricks to avoid paying their taxes and that's a big no no.

The main reason why governments fight Bitcoin is because it is decentralized. This means that they are unable to control the financial system. They do not want it. They want everything in their grasp. Also, because of privacy, they want to monitor and know all the financial transactions of individuals and institutions.
As for the impact of bitcoin on countries that adopt or accept bitcoin, I think it will be very positive, countries that adopt bitcoin and transfer their assets from fiat to bitcoin will have a high hedge towards future risks, which are particularly represented by the inflation that fiat is constantly experiencing, also accepting bitcoin will It causes a great economic movement in the country because of the need for infrastructure commensurate with the new financial system, also the ease of transferring money, fees and taxes will be easy to collect and all of this leads to the recovery of the economy.

They hate bitcoin (not hate, scared of it) because most government don't know much about bitcoin or how it works. Others that know about bitcoin and crypto currencies are scared because they don't like decentralization. They don't want to give power to their people. And when it comes to financial aspects, they would never want to give complete control to their people. The government is power hungry. But eventually they will allow bitcoin and might make it a legal tender, but only after imposing strict regulation.
Didn't Turkey put a ban on crypto currencies or was it just mining?

The government is supposed to be the most powerful entity in a country. It is not the people really. Neither is it true that the government is the people. One reason why governments are powerful is that they have the control over money. And the strength of their money is more or less the strength of the country. Such is the reason why a decentralized Bitcoin isn’t really attractive to them. And it probably goes to the extent that a government would rather stick to their falling fiat rather than embrace a digital currency which is neither theirs nor could be taken over.

However, I guess it is easier for a country that doesn’t have its own currency, or whose currency is held hostage by powerful economies, or whose currency is so weak it could easily be bullied by stronger currencies to embrace Bitcoin as a viable alternative currency.

There should be 3 possibilities:
1. Improve their economic strength
2. Worse their economic strength
3. No effects at all

When they make Bitcoin legal, they will do massive efforts to take advantage of Bitcoin. The perfect example is El Salvador, even their president takes a part in Bitcoin promotion and he initiates to build any facilities to optimize Bitcoin usage. At the end of the day, if they do it properly and choose a good strategy, I think a country that legalized Bitcoin can get a good advantage. So, improving their economic strength is possible.

The whole can embrace Bitcoin and expand its adoption but fiat should coexist with it since most of these leaders in the other countries don't like the supremacy of Bitcoin since they can't control the money and that's good for sure. But I don't know if the whole world is ready for that it might take some time to make them use Bitcoin but most of these people don't know what to do of having a wallet address or a private keys.

If El Salvador the the set of an example then I think most people in the world can do this also.

There has been lots of discussion on US dollars and its inflation problems and when world economy is still being calculated as USD as a base currency, you will find everything get devalued over the time hence obviously adopting bitcoin against dollars will definitely give significant protection against inflation.

Moreover, why some of these countries are so head bent on not accepting bitcoin and crypto currency in general is what I am yet to apprehend and some out of their selfish reasons has even go to ban and make crypto illegal, while some won't make it a legal tender and allow it transactions within the country. I think there is a lot of positive impact on the economies of countries that have decided to accept bitcoin and El Salvador should serve as source of conviction for them.

It is clear that small nations could take advantage of this situation whereas big nations will hurt from it. Bitcoin is something that goes up in dollars, and most fiat currencies drop in value against dollar. So, if you leverage your own national currency today, tomorrow when your fiat is less valuable against the dollar, you could sell your bitcoins and could get that difference back. This doesn't help the USA, it is also valid for euro, pound, yuan and so forth.

If you are a big nation AND support bitcoin then you could do it with a lot larger amount and could be great, China buying 1 trillion dollars worth of bitcoin would guarantee their future, either bitcoin will suck because of it and they will be fine, or it will be great and they will still be fine, but they decided to ignore that for some reason and they will hurt because of it as well.

Today Bitcoin crossed the resistance threshold which means a drastic drop is still happening. With the current phenomenon apart from news or issues that make the crypto market also go down, it will be an opportunity or ticking time bomb. For El Salvador, they just need to take more and back it up in Bitcoin. Developing countries will always perceive this condition as a threat because its value is still influenced by news. Whereas the reserves they still held onto like gold were not particularly touched by this sort of thing.

So, when all the global economic markets, both in countries that still doubt the adoption of their deposit in Bitcoin. Therefore, we cannot force the country as a whole, but rather specific individuals who have deposited their finances in Bitcoin.

I don't think there are countries (governments) that truly hate Bitcoin. In the worst case, they are afraid of it.

Governments have the power to control their traditional native currencies. Bitcoin offers a level of decentralization that seems to be working so far, but of course it is still a new experiment in a mostly centralized world. As far as I can see, the trend is still towards a centralized economy, with each central government going beyond its own borders to control the economy, while at the same time becoming less capable of controlling the rest of the world as people have more choice in the matter. Regulating or banning Bitcoin may only delay the inevitable.
However, governments will be very careful to make sure they can control the money supply, and that it is so precious to them that they don't want to lose it.

Well I think Bitcoin was overall not actually taken that seriously by the countries like El Salvador and they never thought that somehow it would be relevant in today's world. I do think that we cannot really compare bitcoins and the economy. The bottom line is the interference of Bitcoin in the day to day economic situation in any particular region, which is now minute. Had it been overly webbed then they wouldn't have been able to seperate bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies as a decentralized unit. It's not entirely related, a country's wealth cannot be determined by them being involved with Bitcoins as well. Plus I believe most of the countries are in debt now we cannot just pinpoint it to the debt revolved around bitcoins.

Before the concept of economy and bitcoin was different phenomenon. But now both of that was interlinked. Most of the country was legalised the bitcoin, to overcome the tax losses. But the world economy is now depending on the bitcoin and the crypto currency. People from poor family to inverse on the cryptocurrency now was the legal one now. The life of such people also uplift by the investment in the crypto currency.

If, you compare Bitcoin & Economy, I actually think the opposite.

They have reasons to do both, in fact they know Bitcoin is a prospect to boost the economy, for a country that understands it.

Like I said they don't hate Bitcoin, quite the contrary, they hate themselves, the reason is simple, Lust, meaning: the people should not live in prosperity, they prefer to see their people live in poverty, the program is running.

El Salvador, the current best way and solution in dealing with Bitcoin for its people, they want people to live better economically, not dependent on the state/government, social assistance, charity etc.

The economic effects depend on the amount of money that will be injected into the economy and the extent to which citizens are treated as legal currency. Let’s take as an example a country considering the Chinese yuan a legal currency. However, the amount of trade exchange between that country and China does not exceed a few million dollars and therefore it will have no effect.

Exactly if the Salvadoran people don't use bitcoin it will have no effect other than using it to hedge against the dollar.

As for why governments are fighting Bitcoin, because they are something they cannot impose taxes on, and it will cost them a lot to track those currencies, so they are banning them.

For large countries with strong economies I don't think making bitcoin legal or illegal will have a strong impact on the economy. The exception here would be countries like China who like to control their currency. Having unregulated crypto currencies could undermine their own currency. They are afraid to lose control, but since the economy is so large the impact of the crypto ban is small. There are countries like Iceland or Kazakhstan who are strong into crypto mining, they would feel a ban on cryptos much more. So overall I think a ban on cryptos are going to hurt economies because it would generate more taxes.

We can't have the whole world embrace a new technology immediately but with time they would definitely be forced to join the train when the see they have no other options. The challenge we have with global Bitcoin adoption at the moment is the fear of the unknown as well as the fear that Bitcoin has come to devaluate their local economy but the truth is no matter how much the fight the technology one day a new government who understands the trend would definitely see into it's adoption

If the countries do not accept it as a legal tender, they should at least make it legal. I believe countries that regulate their currency by their government can not make bitcoin a legal tender, but they can accept it which is still almost the same with little difference.

There is no official news that Turkey will accept bitcoin as a legal tender which some people can be confused, but it is possible that Turkey can make bitcoin legal. What I heard about Turkey is that Turks can use bitcoin but just the bank transactions from crypto organizations are block because of the ban. There are some countries bitcoin is banned but citizens can use it.

I second this. One currency, one blockchain, one store of value. Insane profits. The central banks should get their shit together and start dumping their gold reserves because they ain't good. They just sit there! Why don't they buy bitcoin instead is beyond my understanding.

El Salvador adopted bitcoin and yesterday there were news saying that Turkey is on the brink of adopting Bitcoin as well. Some say the news were fake but I am not sure about that. Turkey is exactly the country that would adopt crypto.

Saludos to our friends in El Salvador.

Some countries are now supporting bitcoin which is good and it is helping bitcoin adoption, some countries are nothing supporting bitcoin, some went to the extreme by declaring bitcoin illegal. El Salvador accepted bitcoin a legal tender, Kingdom of Tonga with a population of 100000 is making move to make bitcoin a legal tender. Bitcoin has done well because many country make it legal.

I started to wonder about the reason some countries hate bitcoin, it stated in many country by their central bank because they are planing ways to make the currency of their country superior, they see bitcoin as a threat. The banks will not come up straight to the point, all they will say is that bitcoin can bring up illicit activities. what is funny is that the illicit activities that had started many years ago before the creation of bitcoin.

This is not about the lies from the central banks, this is not about lies bitcoin critics are saying, this is about economic downside of bitcoin. Some people will say bitcoin will add nothing good to the economy, Some people are saying making bitcoin a legal tender in a country like El Salvador that do not have their own currency but spending US dollar will not offer anything good but a downside.

See this quote:


Before El Salvador make bitcoin a legal tender, see their dept relating it to GDP in the country from 2012 to 2020. Was there anything good?

See the reaction from many critics about El Salvador bitcoin adoption.

The question I want to ask is about the effect of bitcoin on economy in the countries that make it legal?