So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt. Cool
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again. Angry
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels. Wink
Topic: :-> Bitcoin are helping to reduce global debt. :-> (Read 604 times)
If people are good in handling in their loan, they will not have any problem. Yes, bitcoin can help to reduce the debt of the people since you can earn some money without releasing any of them. But why would you loan if you can earn money?
Although it could be risky, one more thing that bitcoin does is to also help so many companies pay their salary without touching their budgeted salary, and it has happened to me before. I have some staff that I do pay monthly, but at the beginning of every year, based on the previous year sale, I usually separate salaries for the whole year to be kept in a separate account.So, I thought of it this year that since bitcoin has bottomed, rather than keeping the money inside bank and it is not generating income for me, why not just let me Put it in a bitcoin wallet which I did, we all know what has happened to money that was left in wallet from January till now, although I had touched it for some months, but the salary I have paid has been the profit I got from the one I kept in wallet.
I think already millions of people have come out of debt thank you to bitcoin. if it wasn't for this technology, people in third world countries would still not be able to come out of poverty.
And too many people too got burried in debt thanks to bitcoin some people who just invest and invest without thinking.But thats true that there are many people on third world countries got helped and got themselves back on the line again thanks to bitcoin for giving them opportunity to earn money.
I do not really buy that buying withdrawing money from the banks to buy bitcoin reduces global debt. When we buy bitcoin we do not actually remove the money from the banks but we just transferred our money from our accounts to other bank accounts. For example when you purchase bitcoin from an exchange you are required to send a certain amount of dollar which you need to deposit to their bank account so that they will credit you with tether on your account on their exchange. But the tether is not the actual dollars and your money is not going out of the bank but just trasnfering it to the bank account of the exchange. In the end there is nothing that cause reduction on global debt.
The object is not to destroy the Fiat you guys, it is to prevent the Banks from receiving the Fiat and then in turn creating another Fractional reserve on that Fiat to loan the money to someone else. Yes, when you buy bitcoins from one entity you are effectively moving that money on the Banks ledger to another persons account, so it is not exiting the Banking system, but when you use your cash in hand and you do not deposit that into a Bank, you shift that cash to someone else.
So people might withdraw cash to buy bitcoins and reduce the amount of cash that are in Banks at any given time.
The more withdrawals there are, the less money Banks have to give out to loans. 
So people might withdraw cash to buy bitcoins and reduce the amount of cash that are in Banks at any given time.
The more withdrawals there are, the less money Banks have to give out to loans. Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest. 
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
Actually the thing is you are absolutely wrong. Look at the big picture you are not destroying the fiat but just transferring it. For example When you are buying bitcoin by using your fiat. You are buying it from another retailer who is selling bitcoin to you. So this seller would receive the fiat which you removed from the economy and when he deposits into a bank only. So thinking globally the debt is remaining the same. Look at big picture. Only the miners who are minning bitcoin can say that they are reducing some global debt by creating bitcoin but even they are not destroying fiat in any way.This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
So when you buy and remove fiat there is a seller who sells and add fiat. I don't understand why no one has thought about this in this thread
You didn't understand what OP said, what he means by "fiat" is not the cash on hands, but cash on an external wallet online that could be use on buying cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoins, ethereum, and other cryptocurrencies that has the potential to pump in the long run, and if they use their fiat in buying cryptocurrencies, then whoever the owner of the exchanger where they arw going to buy will not definitely put the fiat on the bank, I hope it make sense.
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
Banks are not only relying on deposits, but they also have other business like mortgaged, services and shares to other top companies in the country where they operate, they will always have huge money to lend whoever needs it as long as they comply to their rules.
People will always be tempted to buy Bitcoin using their credit cards because it's probably one of the options left for them.
Bitcoin offers something more than what banks today offer to people. It's making a lot
of difference around. Earning, investing and holding on to cryptocurrencies is assisting
people with debts and without employment to earn and save. It's a good source of income
and it's quite accessible. I keep hearing a lot of stuff about how better it is with banks, I'm
not inclined to comment but what works for us truly is what is important. If you have
money invested or saved in banks or in crypto or both, as long as it's helping it's all good.
of difference around. Earning, investing and holding on to cryptocurrencies is assisting
people with debts and without employment to earn and save. It's a good source of income
and it's quite accessible. I keep hearing a lot of stuff about how better it is with banks, I'm
not inclined to comment but what works for us truly is what is important. If you have
money invested or saved in banks or in crypto or both, as long as it's helping it's all good.
The banking system is a big fraud. They give you a loan so that you become weary of your life when you can't payback. I once worked with a commercial bank in my country, the brand head, and marketers always celebrate whenever a lot of loans are borrowed out. The borrowers just gave the bank access to their pocket, it's a pathological problem
My family is always asking me why I don't sell all of my cryptocurrencies, turn it in fiat and put on the bank, and I'm always laughing in response, what I mean is who is going to trust the bank if he knows its hidden agenda, advertising savings, lending loans, and other bullshit things that will only gave them a lot of money in return, but we can't blame other people for trusting banks, lending loans to it thinking that they are in the good hands, it is because they don't know where to go, where to lend money to save his family from starving or even his self, we all have different needs and wants in life.
no matter what "good"shit people are going to tell me about the bank and the "benefits" I could get from it, I will just smile at them and keep earning cryptocurrencies, that is the real investment for me.
Lol I also laugh at people when they say stuff like that. They ask m how do I get it into the local currency. I laugh and say I do not need to since I can spend it directly. They don't understand...
I just read a post here about banks doing negative interest. Have you ever heard of such a thing? As if they not making enough charging what they do on loan interest they still want more by asking us to pay them to keep our money "safe".
The banking system is a big fraud. They give you a loan so that you become weary of your life when you can't payback. I once worked with a commercial bank in my country, the brand head, and marketers always celebrate whenever a lot of loans are borrowed out. The borrowers just gave the bank access to their pocket, it's a pathological problem
My family is always asking me why I don't sell all of my cryptocurrencies, turn it in fiat and put on the bank, and I'm always laughing in response, what I mean is who is going to trust the bank if he knows its hidden agenda, advertising savings, lending loans, and other bullshit things that will only gave them a lot of money in return, but we can't blame other people for trusting banks, lending loans to it thinking that they are in the good hands, it is because they don't know where to go, where to lend money to save his family from starving or even his self, we all have different needs and wants in life.
no matter what "good"shit people are going to tell me about the bank and the "benefits" I could get from it, I will just smile at them and keep earning cryptocurrencies, that is the real investment for me.
The banking system is a big fraud. They give you a loan so that you become weary of your life when you can't payback. I once worked with a commercial bank in my country, the brand head, and marketers always celebrate whenever a lot of loans are borrowed out. The borrowers just gave the bank access to their pocket, it's a pathological problem
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
Actually the thing is you are absolutely wrong. Look at the big picture you are not destroying the fiat but just transferring it. For example When you are buying bitcoin by using your fiat. You are buying it from another retailer who is selling bitcoin to you. So this seller would receive the fiat which you removed from the economy and when he deposits into a bank only. So thinking globally the debt is remaining the same. Look at big picture. Only the miners who are minning bitcoin can say that they are reducing some global debt by creating bitcoin but even they are not destroying fiat in any way.This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
So when you buy and remove fiat there is a seller who sells and add fiat. I don't understand why no one has thought about this in this thread
You didn't understand what OP said, what he means by "fiat" is not the cash on hands, but cash on an external wallet online that could be use on buying cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoins, ethereum, and other cryptocurrencies that has the potential to pump in the long run, and if they use their fiat in buying cryptocurrencies, then whoever the owner of the exchanger where they arw going to buy will not definitely put the fiat on the bank, I hope it make sense.
I think already millions of people have come out of debt thank you to bitcoin. if it wasn't for this technology, people in third world countries would still not be able to come out of poverty.
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
Actually the thing is you are absolutely wrong. Look at the big picture you are not destroying the fiat but just transferring it. For example When you are buying bitcoin by using your fiat. You are buying it from another retailer who is selling bitcoin to you. So this seller would receive the fiat which you removed from the economy and when he deposits into a bank only. So thinking globally the debt is remaining the same. Look at big picture. Only the miners who are minning bitcoin can say that they are reducing some global debt by creating bitcoin but even they are not destroying fiat in any way.This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
So when you buy and remove fiat there is a seller who sells and add fiat. I don't understand why no one has thought about this in this thread
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
That was a mind-blowing fact. A wow moment for me right there. Only though, as you said, if people buy bitcoins using loans it defeats the fact that bitcoin reduces global debt. It was a great idea observing it from the surface but since the world still mainly revolves on banks and loans, I doubt that we could observe it's effects that much. This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
Holding is better than the loans of banks since it generates more profit but looking at it from a broader perspective, Holding depends on the market flow and its more of an instant profit when you sell it on a high price but loans have a constant amount of interest made so you would be basically making money every day. I'd say reducing the global debt of the world is a good thing but I don't think it would disappear any time soon.
Banks do the same thing into the stock market. but the difference is in the stock market. government has a professional trader that is required to make a definite profit. different from crypto. even they had a professional trader on the stock market or crypto market. crypto especially bitcoin its still unpredictable. and it can be so risky for them.
In my own personal opinion, it is possible for bitcoin to help people who does not have any good source of income and to reduce their debt by start investing their profit in bitcoin that they will be giving a chance to experience a better earning by just converting their fiat into bitcoin.
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
If people are good in handling in their loan, they will not have any problem. Yes, bitcoin can help to reduce the debt of the people since you can earn some money without releasing any of them. But why would you loan if you can earn money?
I get the point. And I haven't thought about that before. I am sure that you are reviewing this because you know about the Bank. But now, crypto loans have begun to emerge that have both positive and shortcomings. At the very least, don't use a loan system if you don't really need it.
I believe there are other alternative means of alleviating poverty or reducing global debt. However, bitcoin is no exception. You have a point that bitcoin investment helps reduce debt people owe. It also gives people a reliable source of income even if its not a full job, its capable of empowering people to take up responsibility.
You have a point there buddy. It is true that bank really give someone loans and have that earn an interest. I don't see anything bad on it. We need that for banks to survive or grow which gives somehow people the chance to create wealth if they handled that loan very well. Please remember that there is a good debt and a bad debt. It is also applicable to some platform here in Cryptocurrency which give that services. It depends on the person who handles the money. That is why we need to educate people to handle their money/crypto wisely.
This is such a good observation. Definitely Bitcoins is helping reduce global debt.
Small countries and big organisation can really help themselves with this.
Small countries and big organisation can really help themselves with this.
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
If you have no goals rather than putting some part of your earnings on banks as a savings , you make your bank rich but not you. I agree with banks making our deposited money as their capital and they give it to other people as loan or simply invest it on markets. But if you have the guts to outsmart banks, you would choose to put it on market or basically buy some bitcoins then hold. You will see that you earn not cents but thousands and the rest effects with banks will follow.
People intended to loan in banks because it is immediately needed or I should say emergency, it is helpful to some people but yes like you said, Global debt is increasing. Bitcoin is the best option of those people who are concern is the global debt because it can really reduce it because they are not contributing to bank loans.
-snip-
Simply put, Bitcoin has made the global financial system more flexible and reduced the various costs that usually exist when we use conventional banks. In calculations, Bitcoin has made the financial system much better, this is what is called an improvement in the global financial system.You might want to check your quote, buddy. That's not even close to what I was saying lol. You might be in the wrong topic entirely, even.
. According to my point of view Bitcoin are helping to reduce global debt .Usually a central bank have the power to print more for the time of recessions for the survival of the economy of their country but this printing of currency will bring a great inflation, to avoid such inflation's of currencies the money supply have to be controlled or else the inflation of currency will lead to currency devaluation that would lead to currency crisis . In order to avoid these difficulties the government have to implement a completely new monetary system just like a decentralized digital currency created by Satoshi Nakamoto like Bitcoin .
But if the investments do not generate profits on time, we will raise the debt up. Also, this market has too many unnecessary risks so you will quickly lose money in your spending. Especially if you have loans in Bitcoin, you may have to accept the price increase, and you will incur a massive fee for the previous loan.
When people stop putting money into banks and switching to bitcoin then the money has to go somewhere. Much of it will end up in fiat exchanges like coinbase, while others are spread out more via local bitcoins.
Now almost everywhere fiat has lost the value and coins are taking its place because it is safe to use and it increases to hold but if you will not hold your coin and use only money then it is useless, people has become so modern so they are using digital money which is bitcoin for sure, it is easy to use reliable to carry without any problem and fear to get robbed in streets.
I think that it's probably a bit of a stretch to say that bitcoin currently makes an impact on global debt levels.
The only thing that I can say for certain is that the bitcoin network is based on the idea of decentralisation and trustlessness, which means that there won't ever be fractional reserve that is conducted for transactions and holdings on chain. That is different to how the debt based fractional reserve system that we've got in most countries right now. There is also potential for people to hold bitcoin as a globally accessible store of value that will benefit them financially.
But when it comes to actually reducing debt levels of countries, bitcoin as a currency simply is not related to how these debts are being created. Perhaps in individual cases capital gains via BTC is able to get someone out of debt, but since it's a zero sum game, it also means that someone else is losing out.
The only thing that I can say for certain is that the bitcoin network is based on the idea of decentralisation and trustlessness, which means that there won't ever be fractional reserve that is conducted for transactions and holdings on chain. That is different to how the debt based fractional reserve system that we've got in most countries right now. There is also potential for people to hold bitcoin as a globally accessible store of value that will benefit them financially.
But when it comes to actually reducing debt levels of countries, bitcoin as a currency simply is not related to how these debts are being created. Perhaps in individual cases capital gains via BTC is able to get someone out of debt, but since it's a zero sum game, it also means that someone else is losing out.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
Only if the entity you bought Bitcoin from didn't deposit the money you used into one of their bank accounts lol. I see what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure the cash flow isn't as straightforward as that, considering the money you spent ends up elsewhere, which, again, could be directly into a different bank account. I think saying Bitcoin helps reduce global debt is a massive reach, and I certainly don't think it helps in this specific way.
I can't see how Bitcoin could reduce the global debt. Maybe some individuals have managed to improve their personal financial situation and reduce their debts but on the global level and countries level such influence isn't recgonized. Although at the end Bitcoin is at some point again converted to fiat currencies it would be very hard to track and measure the impact of Bitcoin on global debt scale and to see some tangible resulst Bitcoin should be globaly regulated and fornaly introduced into economic system.
The impact is still the same, because fiat currency are converted into Bitcoin to enable the payment via Payment processors.
I think it's more appropriate to say exchanged in this case. Your fiat does not turn into Bitcoin, it goes into another person's bank account (the entity you bought your coins from), as I have previously said. Banks don't necessarily get less money to lend at the end of the day because the cash flow doesn't stop until the fiat you spent rests somewhere, and the likely place for that is some other bank.
Either way, I think the global debt problem is too complex to be addressed by simply stifling cash flow.
Nice write ups but my confusion is where you said if people buy bitcoin with they credit cards their are leaving loan behind and debt will be on debt, but what if the people are buying the bitcoin with they money on the credit cards and not borrowing from the bank. We are all aware that banks make profits from the money we save in the bank and it only when you borrow money from bank that you can be indebted.
When people stop putting money into banks and switching to bitcoin then the money has to go somewhere. Much of it will end up in fiat exchanges like coinbase, while others are spread out more via local bitcoins.
In fact, the scale of global debt is also accelerating. Recently, a new study by the International Finance Association (IIF) shows that the level of global debt rose again by $500 billion last year, reaching a record high of $217 trillion, which is now equivalent to 327% of global annual economic output.
From the value of money, when the central bank printing money to dilute the value of money, the value of virtual currency such as Bitcoin is rising, because once people can recognize Bitcoin, its value is innate. Despite the Federal Reserve's planned downsizing, the recent poor economic data, weak economic recovery, interest rate hikes and downsizing are beginning to be suspected by the market.
The essence of money is credit. When the credit of the local currency weakens, it is when the credit of Bitcoin strengthens. Because of the recognition of everyone, and the foundation of Bitcoin is the international network, the intervention of a government in Bitcoin only creates a market fluctuation, although in the short run, Bitcoin and others will suffer another major setback.
From the value of money, when the central bank printing money to dilute the value of money, the value of virtual currency such as Bitcoin is rising, because once people can recognize Bitcoin, its value is innate. Despite the Federal Reserve's planned downsizing, the recent poor economic data, weak economic recovery, interest rate hikes and downsizing are beginning to be suspected by the market.
The essence of money is credit. When the credit of the local currency weakens, it is when the credit of Bitcoin strengthens. Because of the recognition of everyone, and the foundation of Bitcoin is the international network, the intervention of a government in Bitcoin only creates a market fluctuation, although in the short run, Bitcoin and others will suffer another major setback.
The impact is still the same, because fiat currency are converted into Bitcoin to enable the payment via Payment processors.
Exactly the same! Unless the whole world uses BTC as their prime currency (a universal money for all), but I guess that is still far away from reality for now. I guess there is no other things we can do but to go with the flow and use Bitcoin however possible we can make money most out of it.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
Only if the entity you bought Bitcoin from didn't deposit the money you used into one of their bank accounts lol. I see what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure the cash flow isn't as straightforward as that, considering the money you spent ends up elsewhere, which, again, could be directly into a different bank account.
True. A significant number of people currently involved in Bitcoin are speculators who are attempting to grow their national currency holdings. That indeed doesn't help in reducing the quantity of IOUs the banksters get to play with.
But if there ever comes a time in future where things change and lots of people receive their income in BTC and then spend their BTC back into the economy for goods and services, then it would help reduce global debt. But if this is going to happen, it probably won't be for some time yet.
That's the point.
Along with speculators (according to you) still majority of the BTC users have to convert their assets in paper currency (e.g USD) for regular use.
There will be no significant effect on global money until BTC is directly used in the market, like for buying (of goods/services) and salaries etc.
People are not really bothered with "direct" Bitcoin payments anymore, because payment processors have hijacked the technology and simply absorbed them into their business as a new payment option. The advantage of this is the accessibility of more merchants, but the disadvantage is the fact that Bitcoin is not used in the way that it was designed to be used.
The impact is still the same, because fiat currency are converted into Bitcoin to enable the payment via Payment processors.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
Only if the entity you bought Bitcoin from didn't deposit the money you used into one of their bank accounts lol. I see what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure the cash flow isn't as straightforward as that, considering the money you spent ends up elsewhere, which, again, could be directly into a different bank account.
True. A significant number of people currently involved in Bitcoin are speculators who are attempting to grow their national currency holdings. That indeed doesn't help in reducing the quantity of IOUs the banksters get to play with.
But if there ever comes a time in future where things change and lots of people receive their income in BTC and then spend their BTC back into the economy for goods and services, then it would help reduce global debt. But if this is going to happen, it probably won't be for some time yet.
That's the point.
Along with speculators (according to you) still majority of the BTC users have to convert their assets in paper currency (e.g USD) for regular use.
There will be no significant effect on global money until BTC is directly used in the market, like for buying (of goods/services) and salaries etc.
that's a different and great point of view, I mean BTC reducing global debt, really great one.
I agree completely with your logic, I have never for once thought of it this way.
On a second thought, what would be the gate of those enterprenuers who wouldn't be able to secure a credit facility from the banks because the banks has no money to lend?
Don't you think ,this can decrease standard of living and increase unemployment rate too?
Thanks
On a second thought, what would be the gate of those enterprenuers who wouldn't be able to secure a credit facility from the banks because the banks has no money to lend?
Don't you think ,this can decrease standard of living and increase unemployment rate too?
Thanks
Well, we will have to provide for a solution for that at a much lower interest rate than Banks are charging at the moment. Nothing stops people from lending bitcoins to other people and they can use Smart contracts and Escrow services to accomplish this. We do not need Banks to loan money or to provide credit cards, you can do the same with individuals loans.
We already saw how ICO's were used to fund bigger projects, so even crowd funding could help to solve this.
that's really true bro. that bitcoin is one of the best systems available today. which can make many investors come to make bitcoin their investment place. some of them even use bitcoin as a transaction and payment tool
I agree completely with your logic, I have never for once thought of it this way.
On a second thought, what would be the gate of those enterprenuers who wouldn't be able to secure a credit facility from the banks because the banks has no money to lend?
Don't you think ,this can decrease standard of living and increase unemployment rate too?
Thanks
On a second thought, what would be the gate of those enterprenuers who wouldn't be able to secure a credit facility from the banks because the banks has no money to lend?
Don't you think ,this can decrease standard of living and increase unemployment rate too?
Thanks
All of this would make sense when bitcoin is legalized throughout the world and is globally accepted. Banks have been doing this from a long time and will probably continue with the same.
Bitcoin is here to stay until we keep using it. It would be really hard for it to be globally accepted since it will cause a direct damage to the banks environment.
But once it is globally accepted then there would be no stop to the opportunities that it would bring to us.
Bitcoin is here to stay until we keep using it. It would be really hard for it to be globally accepted since it will cause a direct damage to the banks environment.
But once it is globally accepted then there would be no stop to the opportunities that it would bring to us.
Very interesting point of view, but I'm afraid in the end the bank still wins. People withdrawing their money from banks will likely lead to one of the following scenarios:
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / orprint more money lend more money to banks.
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / or
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
About your point (B), I can see it going the other way too. I mean, banks offering higher interest rates in order for more people to save fiat currencies in banks.
Good point, there would be definitely bidirectional market forces at play.
Either way, the interest rates banks charge their debtors will still be profitably higher than the interest rate that they offer their depositors. Banking is a business after all.
lol that OP was so deep! 
But in reality I'm sure it doesn't help any more than changing fiat money to stocks, precious metals and other commodities. Exchanging your money for Crypto won't destroy the banknotes, it'll only reduce their buying power.
About your point (B), I can see it going the other way too. I mean, banks offering higher interest rates in order for more people to save fiat currencies in banks.
But in reality I'm sure it doesn't help any more than changing fiat money to stocks, precious metals and other commodities. Exchanging your money for Crypto won't destroy the banknotes, it'll only reduce their buying power.
Very interesting point of view, but I'm afraid in the end the bank still wins. People withdrawing their money from banks will likely lead to one of the following scenarios:
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / orprint more money lend more money to banks.
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / or
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
About your point (B), I can see it going the other way too. I mean, banks offering higher interest rates in order for more people to save fiat currencies in banks.
The point I am trying to make is not the elimination of all debt, but rather the reduction of global debt levels. Yes, the Reserve Banks will never stop printing money and dishing it out to Banks and interest rates hikes are under their control, but we can do our best to counter some of this, by not giving it to them on a plate.
I think most of the debt belongs to countries and cooperations though, not to private individuals. Accordingly I believe that any attempt of debt reduction via private individuals is just a drop in the bucket, globally speaking. I don't have numbers on the global debts of private individuals and cooperations, but I do believe it's hard to top the debt levels of countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
Looking at the debt per capita I get a feel that most of us are more in debt by proxy of being a citizen, rather than as private individuals. And that's just external debt.
Governments control every aspect of fiat currencies and they even control the value of that currency, so we are fighting to protect our wealth. Our only tool to fight back, is not to support them and by shifting our wealth into financial instruments that are not under their control.
I am happy with every single fiat currency that are removed from that corrupt system.
I am happy with every single fiat currency that are removed from that corrupt system.
Here I wholeheartedly agree with you and I feel that this aspect of crypto has been criminally neglected by most people in the last few years. Kids these days seem to care more about lambos than about freedom.
anything that can cut the tyranny of the corrupted banks shorter can also be doing dozens of good things to the global economy and a part of that is the global debt . i haven't actually thought about it the way OP explained but that is an interesting thing to consider. i believe in a few years we are going to see a much better economy as the control of the banks reduces thanks to bitcoin and decentralization.
Bitcoin could help each other when price is grow up, but when bitcoin price still lower impossible could help to reduce global debt, many time bitcoin never growing up last one year and price always lower, will bitcoin grow up at the last of this year or not.
Very interesting point of view, but I'm afraid in the end the bank still wins. People withdrawing their money from banks will likely lead to one of the following scenarios:
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / orprint more money lend more money to banks.
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / or
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
The point I am trying to make is not the elimination of all debt, but rather the reduction of global debt levels. Yes, the Reserve Banks will never stop printing money and dishing it out to Banks and interest rates hikes are under their control, but we can do our best to counter some of this, by not giving it to them on a plate.
Governments control every aspect of fiat currencies and they even control the value of that currency, so we are fighting to protect our wealth.
I am happy with every single fiat currency that are removed from that corrupt system.
I don't see how the debt fiat spreadsheet lowers when people buy and hold Bitcoin. The debt of fiat didn't change with this action, money just moved from A to B and that's all. The debt is the same, in fact it increases since your money is no longer available for the state to confiscate when needed to pay for it.
If anything the more people buy and hold and never go back from BTC the faster fiat bankruptcy goes. Similar to how banks would crash if everyone went at the same time to withdraw their funds. However as soon as you buy property or anything that can be confiscated it will be capital that's available for them to cover debt.
Just stop thinking about it, fiat works through debt, there's no escape from debt ever in a fiat world, however you now have Bitcoin as an hedge.
If anything the more people buy and hold and never go back from BTC the faster fiat bankruptcy goes. Similar to how banks would crash if everyone went at the same time to withdraw their funds. However as soon as you buy property or anything that can be confiscated it will be capital that's available for them to cover debt.
Just stop thinking about it, fiat works through debt, there's no escape from debt ever in a fiat world, however you now have Bitcoin as an hedge.
It is a good idea. But I don't think it matters to people. Especially those who do not take any loans. But using bitcoin as a means of saving is good, but it can be dangerous because crypto is volatile.
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
On the other hand, after the person who sells Bitcoin gets USD in exchange for and he does what buyer should not do, because the purchase/sale of Bitcoin is possible with USD. Also, I do not think that credit debts can be reduced by the arrival of Bitcoin. As a result, if everyone has enough money, they do not need credit. Even today, there are dozens of digital money belonging to the loan. This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
Thank God I am using cash from the start.
I didnt realize this though. I just really hate banks and how they are getting profit from those loans and also investing it with other types of investment like mutual funds and equities.
They give their clients like below 1 percent annually for those who keep their money with them. This is too unfair. Once I saw thru that I stop savings money with those banks.
I didnt realize this though. I just really hate banks and how they are getting profit from those loans and also investing it with other types of investment like mutual funds and equities.
They give their clients like below 1 percent annually for those who keep their money with them. This is too unfair. Once I saw thru that I stop savings money with those banks.
Ok, if you are right, then bitcoin should be accepted in global.
Adoption and acceptability of Bitcoin globally is gradually creeping in because according to OP analysis Bitcoin seem to actually does that based on the fact. Sooner than later as i believe Bitcoin will actualize it purpose and usability. When this happen the world will feel the potentials behind the said project.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
Only if the entity you bought Bitcoin from didn't deposit the money you used into one of their bank accounts lol. I see what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure the cash flow isn't as straightforward as that, considering the money you spent ends up elsewhere, which, again, could be directly into a different bank account.
True. A significant number of people currently involved in Bitcoin are speculators who are attempting to grow their national currency holdings. That indeed doesn't help in reducing the quantity of IOUs the banksters get to play with.
But if there ever comes a time in future where things change and lots of people receive their income in BTC and then spend their BTC back into the economy for goods and services, then it would help reduce global debt. But if this is going to happen, it probably won't be for some time yet.
WOW, I never realized this but yes it's true as Bitcoin also is a finite asset and in limited supply as well. FIAT is never ending and inflationary in supply which only reduces purchasing power and technically has wiped out middle classes in many western countries, so now is the time to collect some Bitcoin and I would agree, that it can reduce debt as the fractional reserve banking system is the biggest ponzi on the planet and you all saw what happened to Greece in their bank RUN just a few years back. If everyone now went to the banks all at once and asked for THIER money, the banks don't have it. SO more you put aside in Bitcoin from your wages, it might save you from getting into debt later on when your FIAT money is worth less and less, but your daily expenses are getting higher and higher.
Exactly, it is not just the devaluation of our fiat currency that are putting us deeper into debt, it is also the fractional reserve banking practices that are pulling us down. Greece is the perfect example of this and I will never forget the sad pictures of long queues at Banks, when the country’s banks were closed and a daily cash withdrawal limit of some €60 were implemented at the ATMs.
Will we never learn? The next economic crisis is around the corner and Bank runs like this will be the norm.
- https://medium.com/@jimmysong/bitcoins-path-to-method-of-payment-6cb5b3297268
WOW, I never realized this but yes it's true as Bitcoin also is a finite asset and in limited supply as well.
It also works well with bitcoin, because, unlike banks, wallet providers don't take any of your money to give it to others. There was recently a thread on bitcointalk where the op actually argued the opposite, but I checked the ToS of blockchain.info and some exchanges and found out that they don't do this stuff. It's good that we can't create coins out of thin air, but the problem is that it's not always the case. Some bug in the past already lead to creation of non-existing bitcoins. The dev team noticed them in time and updated the core, but that means that theoretically it can miss something like that in the future, and some coins will illegally enter the circulation and stay for a while. In that case it will be even more important that solid crypto companies don't mess around with coins of their customers. 
That's why Bitcoin was created, because I'm sure the exchange tool must have a fixed total and cannot change in number. Buying bitcoin directly without a credit card will at least ease the amount of debt that already exists. Because debt is only in writing in the banking system, while the real amount is less than 50% of the total debt.
snip-
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
Very interesting idea, this is also what comes in my mind that people need to control their selves of having debt even virtual or banks. But ain't sure if Bitcoin really helps to reduce the level of debt. How about those crypto lending platforms they also offered debt to people.Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
Is just us, not Bank nor Bitcoin to help you of debt. Both are helping us, we can withdraw our fiat from converting bitcoin to the Banks.
Where we can buy bitcoin without depositing our money to our bank account? may it is hard thing to do for me. Until now, I just found one of the way to buy bitcoin is through bank account which mean I need to deposit my money it it. In my country there is no bitcoin retailer so far for exactly I can buy bitcoin with my money cash.
Conceptually, I got your nucleus on this thread and I agree with it, the banks just will make someones having many debt in their live and the government only made it happened with no solution. The banks only make everyone miserable, just give an education that having debt is aim of human life in the world. I don't like the concept of the bank as a whole honestly but the bad thing is I'm one of the booster who keeps the bank branch out least likely by having a bank account and lay away my money in it, an actual hypocrisy.
Conceptually, I got your nucleus on this thread and I agree with it, the banks just will make someones having many debt in their live and the government only made it happened with no solution. The banks only make everyone miserable, just give an education that having debt is aim of human life in the world. I don't like the concept of the bank as a whole honestly but the bad thing is I'm one of the booster who keeps the bank branch out least likely by having a bank account and lay away my money in it, an actual hypocrisy.
Very interesting point of view, but I'm afraid in the end the bank still wins. People withdrawing their money from banks will likely lead to one of the following scenarios:
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / orprint more money lend more money to banks.
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
a) Central banks will allow banks to run on smaller fractional reserves and / or
b) Banks will charge higher interest rates on what little money they can lend to people due to supply and demand.
Neither of which would be a pretty sight. Let's keep in mind that debt is inherent to the way our current economy runs, so it's unlikely to go away easily.
I never thought this way! but news about BTC reducing global debt is definitely going viral.
Ok, if you are right, then bitcoin should be accepted in global.
LOL I never thought of that one and yeah it does reduce the debt level. But come to think of it, there are also blockchain platforms that offers this type of service and although they are still few compared to banks, they also add to increasing debt levels.
yes, it is also true that bitcoin can recover much of the world's debt debt because the world thinks the world does not need bitcoin but needs thousands of dollars and hundred hundreds of dollars 
really a reasonable estimate, I never even thought so deeply, the bitcoin revolution for alternative payment in the future has contributed and helped global debt, a word that is suitable for BTC (you're the best, among the best crypocurrency)
LOL I never thought of that one and yeah it does reduce the debt level. But come to think of it, there are also blockchain platforms that offers this type of service and although they are still few compared to banks, they also add to increasing debt levels.
in my opinion, yes, because of what? world debt from real currency and bitcoin digital currency can help pay off debt debt that exists in the world but in the world rely on money that can be held and felt unfortunately the problem is not seeing the impact of digital money 
Even when one invests with the banking credit and debit card it is making a circulation. In this regard bitcoin isn't causing any global debt increase. Same as the investing of money into bitcoin, cashing out of bitcoin takes place all around which will neutralize the buying to the selling.
the real question is whether banks are actually doing that instead of everything being virtual. what you said here is only going to work if banks are honest and are operating with a zero sum game. otherwise if they are lending more money than they actually have then people pulling out their fiat from banks isn't going to change that. they will still continue lending the same amount if not more.
WOW, I never realized this but yes it's true as Bitcoin also is a finite asset and in limited supply as well. FIAT is never ending and inflationary in supply which only reduces purchasing power and technically has wiped out middle classes in many western countries, so now is the time to collect some Bitcoin and I would agree, that it can reduce debt as the fractional reserve banking system is the biggest ponzi on the planet and you all saw what happened to Greece in their bank RUN just a few years back. If everyone now went to the banks all at once and asked for THIER money, the banks don't have it. SO more you put aside in Bitcoin from your wages, it might save you from getting into debt later on when your FIAT money is worth less and less, but your daily expenses are getting higher and higher.
Exactly, it is not just the devaluation of our fiat currency that are putting us deeper into debt, it is also the fractional reserve banking practices that are pulling us down. Greece is the perfect example of this and I will never forget the sad pictures of long queues at Banks, when the country’s banks were closed and a daily cash withdrawal limit of some €60 were implemented at the ATMs.
Will we never learn? The next economic crisis is around the corner and Bank runs like this will be the norm.
I don't remember much from a very basic (and free) course in economics I took almost 20 years ago, but I do remember a brief theoretical explanation of how capital flows work with banks, and it's like you described: money deposited with banks and lent out to others with interest.
Unfortunately, that isn't exactly how it works in practice, at least in my country.
This is a more accurate picture: Total cash in circulation = X.
Bank receives X sum of deposits from A. Bank electronically has X amount of loans to give out to B people, but also X sum in cash. A withdraws X sum of money. But B pays back X + interest.
So what do we magically have? "Cash" including electronic, in circulation = 2X + interest.
Not the most accurate but gives you an idea of how the current system just creates money electronically, doesn't even need to print fiat to dilute it.
Unfortunately, that isn't exactly how it works in practice, at least in my country.
This is a more accurate picture: Total cash in circulation = X.
Bank receives X sum of deposits from A. Bank electronically has X amount of loans to give out to B people, but also X sum in cash. A withdraws X sum of money. But B pays back X + interest.
So what do we magically have? "Cash" including electronic, in circulation = 2X + interest.
Not the most accurate but gives you an idea of how the current system just creates money electronically, doesn't even need to print fiat to dilute it.
LOL I never thought of that one and yeah it does reduce the debt level. But come to think of it, there are also blockchain platforms that offers this type of service and although they are still few compared to banks, they also add to increasing debt levels.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
Only if the entity you bought Bitcoin from didn't deposit the money you used into one of their bank accounts lol. I see what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure the cash flow isn't as straightforward as that, considering the money you spent ends up elsewhere, which, again, could be directly into a different bank account. I think saying Bitcoin helps reduce global debt is a massive reach, and I certainly don't think it helps in this specific way.
WOW, I never realized this but yes it's true as Bitcoin also is a finite asset and in limited supply as well. FIAT is never ending and inflationary in supply which only reduces purchasing power and technically has wiped out middle classes in many western countries, so now is the time to collect some Bitcoin and I would agree, that it can reduce debt as the fractional reserve banking system is the biggest ponzi on the planet and you all saw what happened to Greece in their bank RUN just a few years back. If everyone now went to the banks all at once and asked for THIER money, the banks don't have it. SO more you put aside in Bitcoin from your wages, it might save you from getting into debt later on when your FIAT money is worth less and less, but your daily expenses are getting higher and higher.
Ok, let's forget for one moment that Banks are also getting money from thin air, when Reserve Banks are printing money. Let's just concentrate on the millions of deposits that are deposited into Banks on a daily basis and that most of this money is borrowed to other people with interest.
This money is channelled to loans and people pay interest on those loans, resulting in higher debt.
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
This money is channelled to loans
So, when people remove their money from Banks and they invest in Bitcoin, they actually reduce the amount of money that Banks can loan to other people, effectively reducing global debt.
This is why we always tell people not to buy bitcoins with credit cards or loans, because you are borrowing money from Banks to invest in Bitcoin and that increase debt levels again.
Hoarding Bitcoin also stimulate a saving habit and that helps to counter increasing debt levels.
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