Topic: Bitcoin as an Ideal Wins. Bitcoin as a Concept Fails. (Read 1436 times)

Bitcoin is still evolving on it's own,no financial elites have control over it.I think bitcoin is both conceptually and ideally perfect online currency while you hate the control over your money from others.I have no problems with the confirmations timing and soon enough bitcoin is gonna be accepted at millions of places than you can imagine.

It is getting to the point where you will start getting charged every time you use your debit card.   Think about when you use it at a liquor store, or at most gas stations.   Hell, most gas stations now even have a different price of gas per gallon if you are paying by debit/credit card.

I think you probably overlook a lot of the fees that you get charged because they just get tacked onto the amount that you are paying, and it does not show up as a separate transaction on your bank statement.

The fee you pay pays to run the system of Bitcoin the fee you pay your bank pays to line an already rich bankers pockets.  When I need a check to be cashed at a bank they want my finger print, ID and who knows what will be next.  The banking system is failing and they only adding more fees to their users who have less options and pay more for less.  Bitcoin is growing the old model is declining so do the math.

That's true, real difference between ideal and practical

Hope BTC can overcome it.

we need more bitcoin atm's that quickly let people go from btc to cash and vice versa - Once this happens btc will blow up

DannyHamilton, you use your tongue prettier than a 20 dollar whore!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=37v-6Zs5T10

Nice post and very correct.

You say that the vendors pay for accepting credit cards, but how do you think the vendors pay for these expenses? They pass them onto consumers. In other words consumers pay an additional 10% when someone pays with an AMEX card, but this additional fee is hidden to consumers.

lol, you might not get charged for using your credit card, but rest assured, merchants get raped. I have to pay between 2-5 percent, depending on the card. AMEX  Biz cards are the worst. Who do you thinks pays for all the perks? the vendors. Last time I took an AMex biz card, it was almost 10 percent to take it.. So, vendors should love bitcoin, especially when you have bitpay and coinbase that charge almost nothing to take it. They even pay for the miners fee.

Dont get me started with paypal. They are like 2.5 percent plus all these other small fees. When I take a cc, it cost me 30 cents just to see if it gets approved or not. if not, im out the 30 cents.. then at night, they have a batch fee, its one small fee for the days receipts.. then the monthly fee to take credit cards.. thats on top of the 2-5 percent..

Guess who ends up paying for those fees in the end? not me, the consumer..

This is, IMO the best feature of bitcoin. It makes the cost of a transaction much more transparent to the consumer. I am not surprised that the OP thinks it is free to use a debit card (as I assume that most people believe this) because merchants generally will not sell items on different terms to people paying with a debit/credit card (except maybe have a, say $5 minimum purchase, or ask to check ID).
Even if the merchant were to receive cash from a customer and verify (somehow) with 100% certainty that the bills are not fake, the same would be true. The merchant would have the possibility of having cash stolen from them and would have to eat those losses. Until a merchants money is taken by armored truck to the bank and their account credited, even a cash transaction is "unconfirmed"
 I would have to disagree with you on this one. The US dollar is almost universally accepted throughout the world. Even if the USD is not the local currency, it's value is known around the world and there are few places that will not accept dollars.This is true.

You are mistaken.

I send most of my transactions for free.  When I do pay a fee, I pay less than $0.06 no matter how much I'm sending. That doesn't seem excessive to me.


You are mistaken.

Yes, you do get charged each time you use your debit card.  You just aren't aware of it, because it's hidden from you.  The merchant is paying a much larger fee that bitcoin transactions cost, and the merchant is passing this cost on to you by increasing the price of his products or services.


You are mistaken.

If your wallet is stolen from you with cash inside it, will the bank replace your stolen cash?  Bitcoin is a currency, not an account.  You should protect it just like you do cash.  Can you create backups of your cash so that you can restore it if it gets lost, or destroyed?  I have multiple backups of all my bitcoin wallets.  Eventually there will be bitcoin banks for those that need others to protect their money for them, but bitcoin is still in its infancy right now.  There are many layers of usability that will be built on top of it over the next decade or so.  The fact that is doesn't immediately have the infrastructure for every possible use you can think of doesn't mean that it isn't usable at all or that it won't have that infrastructure in the near future.


You are mistaken.

Bitcoin is money. I don't need to "withdraw" it from anywhere.  I simply spend it.  I can spend it as fast as you can spend the cash in your pocket.


You are mistaken.

The merchant does not have a guarantee that they will get paid when you use your debit/credit card.  A debit/credit card transaction is similar to an UNCONFIMRED bitcoin transaction.  Generally the merchant won't receive the actual money in their bank account for many hours.  Even then if there is a dispute, the money can be taken back from them.  Bitcoin transactions take seconds to propagate through the network and reach a point where they carry less risk than a debit/credit card transaction.  Typically within 10 minutes the transaction becomes permanently irreversible, and spendable by the merchant if they choose to do so.  If the merchant wishes for less risk and faster conversion into fiat cash, they can use services such as BitPay or Coinbase that take on some of that risk and add convenience for a very small fee.
 

You are mistaken.

I tried to spend my US dollars at many merchants in Ireland, and not a single one was willing to accept it.  I then tried to spend my Euro at many merchants back home in the U.S. and not a single one was willing to accept that either.  Bitcoin is quickly gaining popularity and acceptance.  There are already many merchants that accept it quickly and easily:

• Reddit
• Wikipedia
• Chicago Sun-Times
• Overstock.com
• TigerDirect.com
• Dell.com
• Expedia.com
• The D hotel in Las Vegas
• Golden Gate hotel in Las Vegas
• Dish satellite TV service
• Resturants all over the US that use Menufy
• and many more

With time the list will grow and the convenience will multiply.


You are mistaken.

You chose 1 merchant that clearly isn't committed to their decision, and had 1 bad experience, and because of this you choose to assume that bitcoin can never and will never succeed.  Meanwhile, many people ARE using it (I've made several purchases myself), and many merchants ARE accepting it.  To claim that no one will ever do either is to intentionally choose to blind oneself to the current reality around them.

Well indeed, the merchants fee varies but even a small percentage is a lot when you move millions and billions of dollars.
What's the problem with confirmations? That it takes an hour to make an international transfer? 
Have fun trying to spend your dollars in China and the EU.
4) makes no sense actually. Nobody will use or accept bitcoin until these problems are addressed? How can 3 be addressed if no one will accept bitcoin until it is addressed?

1) Wrong, merchand pay INSANE tax ... to allow you to pay with credit card.

2) Wrong, explose the in-day limit or week-limit or monthly-limit and you see a catastrophic issue

3) True ... and pay the inflation of this method, dude

4) Well, good ride ... see ya to 2016 when dollar fail. 

What are the real ideals behind Bitcoin?

Wow!  If you consider the ability to "spend across the internet" a beautiful concept then I encourage you to keep studying because you'll be blown away when you discover and understand the real ideals behind Bitcoin.

bitcoin will probally not replace all means of value exchange due to microfees, but it can replace most of them like global remittance, higher value exchanges, internet purchases

All of your "flaws" that you present about bitcoin are around the premise that you are relying on some central authority that you must trust to keep track of your balance and to trust that this central authority to give you your money when you request it. You do not need to do this with bitcoin as your "balance" is "kept track of" by the miners who secure the blockchain.  

i understand that is might be frustrating. bitcoin is really better for lager transactions and is really only a way of going around using paypal at the moment. right now bitcoin isn't really a serious thing, it is past being "cult status" though and can get bigger. gotta wai tand see!

ya sure.

tl;dr anyways

Next !

I ideal of a bitcoin that you can spend across the internet is a most beautiful concept. However, the technology behind the concept fails it. Excessive usage charges - I don't get charged each time I use my debit card. Security - my bank guarantees my funds even if they screw up. Speed - it takes seconds to withdraw cash or process a payment by Debit/Credit card. No confirmations needed. My money is accepted around the world at almost each and every merchant - I tried to buy a basket of goods last week with bitcoin and the Marchand couldn't be bothered. So I left. See other thread. No one will ever use or accept bit coin until these problems are addressed  immediately.