Topic: Bitcoin changes finance - but for the better or the worse? (Read 1916 times)

Can you tell me about some reasons to be a support for the bitcoin to make the better finance system?
Bitcoin can't do that, but the finance needs the blockchain. because the blockchain is offering a simple database to store all of the finance activities. And we do not need manual step to do that.

I think it is moving to a better finance to the better world, because bitcoin become a currency without inflation, its mean that if we invest in bitcoin our investment wont lose its value due to the government control

bitcoin is good finance evolution
with bitcoin my income is incraese and my finance get revolution, because iam cryptocurency trading bitcoin and altcoin my income above to my work office
but if bitcoin to revolution and replace position fiat money, i think still very imposible

In 2014 walmart launched their own money transfer service, which undercut transfer fees by a big margin. source

Walmart's transfer fees(and their competitors) in comparison to bitcoin:



The answer may be: yes, wire transfer services are changing their fees & if they want to compete with bitcoin they will need to change them even more.  

Fiat stability is like a large dam that either blocks all water or allows all water through(after the dam is destroyed).

At first glance, crypto might appear less stable than the dollar and other fiat. But if that fiat dam breaks and hyperinflation occurs I don't think things will look that way anymore.

There are also issues with fiat being overburdened with deficit.

Bitcoin "instability" isn't really an issue as even when it declined to $900, it was still 300% higher than it was 1 or 2 years prior.

If bitcoin and crypto becomes more mainstream, it could put a lot of pressure on wire transfer services run by walmart.

It could put more pressure on fiat also to show that being regulated can provide real and lasting value, which evidence could contradict at this point.

It s definitely changed the global financial sector for the better for the masses and not necessarily the government or central banks. It's provided an alternative remittance system for transferring money globally at lower fees from the comfort of our homes 24/7 and that's better than fiat remittances. It has single handedly eradicated double spending of currency and that's positive do in all I think Bitcoin's influence has been that on the positive side.

I think it is wrong to consider something which works as money separate from the financial system. Bitcoin in particular and cryptocurrencies in general change the views on payment and the role of the state. Money used to be state's prerogative for a long time. The government controls the sums, the price and authenticity. Now we understand that the amount can be controlled from within by the code, the price of be regulated purely by demand and supply and authenticity is confirmed intersubjectively. I think it has positive impact, because stimulates the officials to develop something new and attractive instead of fiat we have nowadays.

I would say it will be positive if its manage very well and the only reservation I would have is regarding the upward trend in the price which is not backed by any factor other than the price in which its being traded and the moment this is happening then large amount will start chasing fewer goods that might lead to the crashing of the economy due to uncheck appreciation in the value of currency but the moment this is adequately taken care of by the shakers of the economy,then its positive all the way.

I agree. There isn’t really a big difference in how it is used for finance purposes. The good outweighs the bad. Bitcoin is different from other currencies but what is bad about other currencies is good about bitcoin and what is good about Bitcoin is bad about the other currencies.

I think in the end, bitcoin has definitely changed finance but not for the better or worse. It is pretty much just a new way of doing the same thing.

What kind of good changes? Like the creation of the darknet marketplaces which have been built around BTC? The ability for its users to launder drug money quite easily?

In the good also comes with a lot of bad. Dont get me wrong I love Bitcoin but dont give the argument that it will all change the world for the better. It can make it worse too.

Bitcoin does not only solve the financial problem of each person who use it but also it can solve the problem in having expensive fees in doing transactions like in paypal or in the banks. We can easily transfer bitcoin from one place to another or from our wallet to the receiver without going out and paying a lot of money for just the fees. Bitcoin will always solve the financial problems that we are currently facing if we just adopt bitcoin into our life.

Bitcoin affects financial problems of people in good and positive ways. Bitcoin solves my problem financially, especially when it is increasing rapidly.
Many people can prove that from here its positive effect.

Bitcoin does offer a positive evolution to finance, the main reason for this is that unlike fiat system there is no middleman in BTC, while in fiat we have the banks and rely on back for most of our money but with BTC we are our own bank basically(this has been probably said a thousands of times). Unfortunately, bitcoin is not yet so mainstream that it would replace fiat, many people consider it as an asset than a currency which is hindering its progress.

You don't understand, disrupting the status quo is a good thing. It makes people think about alternatives instead of sitting comfortably in their chairs and taking things for granted.
Fiat has its disadvantages and it's not the ultimate form of payment, but it's been with us for so long that for a typical person it's hard to comprehend they could live without it.

I think that it is for the better because if bitcoin will be added into our financial system then it will make the payments very smooth. Just thru online and it will help the economy of a certain country. Bitcoin can also be use as another type of remittances which is very affordable with its fees. Bitcoin will surely change the finance for a better.

I believe that Bitcoin have contributed a positive evolution to finance.  It has a great impact on money transfer since Bitcoin being peer to peer crypto currency, the way of transfer had been easier with Bitcoin. It also nullify 3rd party processor that charge large fee for money transafers and somehow gives privacy to the people involved on the transaction since Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous.

I think it would be for that better, especially when the problems with confirmation time get fixed. Of course there are still issues like how to prevent it from being used in crime and to launder money but I believe solutions would eventually be found. After all, cryptos are still young compared to the fiat system we are using.

The fixed supply of btc means the price will continue to go up until all the coins have been mined. After that the value would probably just fluctuate depending depending on conversion with fiat (if that still exist). For me this makes btc a good investment tool in it's earlier stage and a stable store of value in the later.


I agree with this. It's so unlike fiat where the government can just print more.

It's unstable, but by design it's stable.  As I believe from John Nash's ideal money, a great form of money should have an inflation rate as close to zero as possible without being deflation, which allows the ideal money to be a reference money for value just as a metre is for length and allows people to trust the currency.  The best way to achieve this is by creating a system in which there is natural inflation (introduction of new currency) which contributes to reducing deflation rates as adoption of this currency increases.

After the adoption has occurred, the rate of new currency's introduction should stabilise to zero to prevent future inflation, as Bitcoin's introduction does through halvings.  This way, Bitcoin becomes stable as:

-Adoption has occured

-New money supply is prevented.

Governments are incapable of keeping this stability because the only way they can stabilise currency is by introducing more - bringing money out of circulation is not at all the same.  Furthermore, when a currency has an amount of adoption which it can't move past without economic advancement, that's when it can stabilise.  Fiat currencies achieve this through their use in nations, whereas Bitcoin does this through its potential global use.

When you do not want to value your efforts/properties by government with their inflated momentary systems, you can choose (for example) either gold or bitcoin as your basic financial unit. But gold has many disadvantages practically for saving and for transacting, so bitcoin will be the right solution.

Just think about other payments systems/medium of exchanges for example, currencies or gold or diamonds.
Fiats are just papers only governments back it to have some value. The gold has no significant differences from the iron bar in your window. We people buy it for some greater value because we are sure there is a demand for it when we want to sell it. Same to diamonds, just stones but demands gives them some value.

Now, why bitcoin should not have some value even it is only existing in electronic format ?

Well bitcoin cannot be an alternative to finance but rather it can play as a form of payment and as a medium of exchange for goods and services but it can never be treated as a currency by countries. Thus it simply means that it can never be good enough to be used in lending or other forms of financial activity aside from payments.

Hopefully I would say it is for the better but just like any human invention how we eventually use something can ultimately define whether an invention can be better for the whole mankind or just another tool which a select people can use to manipulate for their own vested interest. I am expecting that Bitcoin can be a shining light in a world that is getting a little bit darker due to many challenges we are facing as a human race. As to financial transactions, Bitcoin and its technology behind can be of big use and we already know that...we are right now waiting for a massive or widespread adoption of the blockchain technology on many applications. Bitcoin is presenting many advantages and only little disadvantages which can easily be managed.

Even if it disrupts status quo, it brings forth good changes. Even if it does bring good changes like bringing ease to online transactions and of course a good substite to credit cards, it also brings bad changes like bringing a new means for money laundering and more. To sum it all up, bitcoin changes finance not for the better and not for the worse with the intent to ease transactions which is good.

It doesnt. What it does is it disrupts the status quo and intends to give the people a way to make transactions without the banks being needed. Think of BTC as something that should be separate from the financial system but we could still do what the banks can without them.

So i have to disagree with you. I don't think wire transfer services are changing their fee structure at all, but some people now realize there's an alternative to typical wire transfer options.

And how is Bitcoin encouraging fiat currency stability? Bitcoin is super unstable!

You can look at it in many perspectives.

The government, the bankers, and the average Joe.

The government, no need to say. They are the ones that controls the entire system and "makes sure it runs smoothly". They are the ones that manipulate every variable like the interest rate and the monetary supply. They are the ones that are on top of the hierachy. They hate bitcoin because it takes that control away from them - sure, they can get a shit ton of mining devices and start mining, but that costs a shit ton of money, and if they print too much money, the whole thing will spiral out of control and their scheme will be worthless.

The bankers, next level down, they profit from fractional reserve lending practices. This is not possible with bitcoin, which means that they will have to either switch business models or go out of the business. The money transmitters as well, they will go out of business because bitcoin can be sent anywhere across the globe without having to add extra fees.

The average Joe should really benefit if we all started using bitcoin. It is a store of value, most importantly. Which means that they don't need to worry about their money losing value in the long term. But we have to accept bitcoin as bitcoin, but not as the value of fiat that is behind that bitcoin. Once we achieve that, then that's true adoption.

Another aspect will still exist.
I've seen on the lending service and interest still be applicable.



It can be a positive evolution for the financial sector, because of the automation for the finance sector by using the bitcoin.

But a lot of the people on the finance will lose their jobs.
The automation or evolution on the finance system will not require the manual guides like the finance employees.

Another reason because the automation will need a full-time operation.

It could be that both occur at the same time.  Bitcoin allows convenient cryptographic proof of ownership.  So what could be done is that if Bitcoin progressed further and was monitored better by governments, there could be an optional third party in loan transactions.  Each party verifies that the address being used is theirs, and then the third party can view the transactions taking place between the two parties (and begin whatever processes happen when someone defaults a loan).  Fortunately, Bitcoin isn't anonymous it's pseudonymous, and if you associate yourself with that pseudonym any public transactions can take place.

It may also be that the current lending system (lending to someone based on their pseudonym's trust and no collateral, no loan systems) continue to take place alongside this, for those who want to retain their privacy in loans and not rely on a third party.  But Bitcoin allows both.

The lending process in bitcoin is a bit risky simply because of the volatile nature of bitcoin ,most of the people loan the coins to gamble or to trade and most of the time convert it to fiat and if that is the case the risk involved are higher as you cannot predict what the price would be a couple of months later and it will be a big burden if you are returning the loan with bitcoins since you have to purchase the coins with fiat when the price is high.

Off the top of my head, btc has positives in terms of.

-Putting pressure on wire transfer services to reduce their transaction fees.
-Putting pressure on state sanctioned currencies to compete in terms of price stability.

There are positive ways in which btc changes finance for the better.

I beg to differ on your last paragraph, If another future cryptocurrency can replace the current financial system then why not Bitcoin? Remember all Altcoins are forking bitcoins somehow and so if the fake could survive what about the original?

That's correct, Guy. Bitcoin will continue to go up higher  and it could replace current financial systems however it also needs some regulations to avoid money laundering and terrorist financing .

Lack of supply manipulation, like you mentioned, could actually be considered a benefit.
The value of Bitcoin should only go up over time due to limited supply.

Now I'm also not sure if Bitcoin itself could ever replace the current financial system, but another future crypto currency might.

Yes, indeed! Bitcoin has changed finance for better.
Bitcoin is acclaimed as the most liquid asset. It can be readily transfer from peer to peer without any answerability.
So it can be easily used as money but at the same time regarded as asset or investment!
Moreover, since it is asset, it possesses zero charges to hold. Japan legalisation involves zero charges for holding btc and further legalisation in rest of the world can widened this.
In the last, it has shifted gear from government's money to people's money.

Although there is no interest, and this means that there is less overall need to invest your wealth into something (which helps to stimulate economic growth, meaning that we have a lot less economic growth in an entirely Bitcoin-based system) however you also keep a lot more of the value that your work has over time, meaning the stuff you do today would actually have value in 50 years.

Now, then again, it would require a huge change in the economic system we have in place today, so, based on the current lay of things, Bitcoin is a negative for "modern" economics, however it is good in other economic systems.

There's a lot more that can be talked about this, but this is just one post so far. I'd enjoy talking more about alternatives and how deflationary (or net-zero) economies could work.

Lending in Bitcoin is challenging because transactions are final. I could loan you money, you could take that money, and I could never hear from you again. And I have zero way to find you unless you've given up the anonymity that Bitcoin also provides.

Do you believe Bitcoin lending is going to evolve to actual loan contracts and shared knowledge of the lenders (the information that people here complain so much that Coinbase is trying to ask them for)?

Bitcoin offers a very positive effect to finance. It's supply cannot be manipulated, unlike the fiat currencies we have. The increasing supply of currencies lead to inflation and loss of value of these currencies. It also gave some people exclusive power to "print" money at will. We all agree that this supply has led to fall in value of all currencies.

There is also the decentralisation that bitcoin brings. I'm aware that in some places, it is easier to deposit money into your bank account than to withdraw. Even if the funds belong to you. With bitcoin, you can spend your funds anyhow you want, any where you want, anytime you want. You can access your funds at any time of the day.

So I say that there is so much positives that bitcoin brings to the financial industry

you know bitcoin is money itself too, and the only thing that makes it different is the fact that it is decentralized. all the rest things are the same more or less.
the supply being limited, is the same as a country being restricted on printing endless amount of cash.

the interest rate and lending which you have mentioned here are not dependent on bitcoin, that is between two person and it can very well be done with cash or bitcoin the same way.

I do think that bitcoin offers a positive evolution to finance. It will not only remove bank, visa, mastercard circuit but it will also improve how people send money to some people far away. Instead of sending via money sending services that sometimes cost so much, they can just use bitcoin with only less than a dollar as fee. The bad effect is that many people will lose their jobs but overall it offers positive evolution to finance.

crypto currencies actually "offer a positive evolution to finance" I do go through anonymous facebook page who one day post this question "what will happen if all debt are forgive" this question to me speak about  our current financial system (fiat). Our current system because of lending, liabilities and manipulation of the system by the bankers make people to forever be in debt! Bitcoin as a decentralized crypto currencies', I believe will reset this current system and established assets base one.

yes and people can't even think about it at the moment, just i said in another post, imagines a world where you have only bitcoin as a main currency

no bank no visa, mastercard circuit would be required, a gigantic reduction in cost would be possible, because you would remove every employees that work in a bank or akin, pretty much like the future deep learning AI will do with every job sector out there

the new banks are each individual and his node(miners full node), this could be enforced if a small reward would be added to full node, to help them grow faster

Interest rates mainly counter inflation.  In the US, for example, interest rates are around 1% and in the past year inflation has been about 1.6%.  Therefore the actual "interest" from that (I don't know what the rates were in the past year so I can't be completely accurate) should be -0.6%.  A benefit which Bitcoin brings to finance is not having natural inflation because of its natural scarcity.  The reason that gold is viewed as a stable asset isn't because it's valuable, it's because its supply can't be manipulated and is therefore constantly scarce, resulting in very little or no inflation because the only thing that could cause it is people actually finding gold - plus currently gold is deflating due to increasing amount of money which is held in it.

The same applies to Bitcoin.  How it changes finance is its limits.
I disagree.  Lending is offered by the bank, which is theoretically able to decide whether or not you can be given a loan based on your previous reputation.  The same principles apply to Bitcoin - newbies who come on to the forum asking for a loan get turned down straight away unless they can offer sufficient collateral, while trusted members can loan much more easily.  It's a sort of credit history system.
Even with volatility, I see that as a good thing.  With wider use, like gold, Bitcoin would be inherently stable while governments can mess up big time.

Bitcoin offers an alternative to traditional (fiat based) finance.

There's no interest that's inherent in this system. There's no mechanism for easy lending. There's no money supply manipulation. There's no lending off of a balance sheet (only) asset, i.e., imaginary money.

Does Bitcoin offer a positive evolution to finance? If so, how?