Topic: Bitcoin Core as main wallet (Read 445 times)

Quote from: blue Snow on July 19, 2023, 07:18:36 PM

But what if I want to show an explicit difference between a non-custodial wallet like Electrum and a non custodial wallet that also runs a node like Bitcoin core. What better name should I call the later?

You can call it a full node wallet.

Thank you very much. It was a straight forward question but I was amazed how some people misunderstood it and started giving me unrelated answers.

So when only have 1 key, I'll be more focused and can freely to keep it in a place where I think is no one knows that.

Moving your funds from one wallet to another by creating a new wallet instead of importing the seed phrase means that the former wallet is no longer in use. It can mean that you still have only one wallet. The difficulty lies if you have shared the address of the former wallet so wide that a random someone can send coins into the address without consenting you.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 20, 2023, 02:51:43 AM

It depends.

Moving private keys or seed phrases between various hot wallets is generally not recommended. Every time you handle a raw private key (as opposed to it being stored encrypted within a piece of wallet software), you risk leaking it. Every wallet has its own attack vectors and weaknesses, so for every additional wallet you import the same private key in to you increase the number of potential attack vectors and therefore the risk of it being compromised. If, on the other hand, your private keys are created and stored on a permanently airgapped device, then this matters less.

Doesn't complicate all that much so I would recommend creating a new wallet regardless.

Importing a single private key is usually not a great idea either. Most (if not all, I hope) wallets will send the change back to the original address which makes it difficult for the user to maintain privacy. In addition, certain wallets also use a different derivation paths or different formats (Core vs Electrum for example) which serves to add a whole lot of confusion. Most wallets would allow their user to sweep their funds into the wallet which is better than importing them outright.

Besides, data on the clipboard doesn't usually get cleared in a timely manner.

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Quote from: blue Snow on July 19, 2023, 07:18:36 PM

I am still confused why we have to create a new wallet instead can restore it with a private key?

It depends.

Moving private keys or seed phrases between various hot wallets is generally not recommended. Every time you handle a raw private key (as opposed to it being stored encrypted within a piece of wallet software), you risk leaking it. Every wallet has its own attack vectors and weaknesses, so for every additional wallet you import the same private key in to you increase the number of potential attack vectors and therefore the risk of it being compromised. If, on the other hand, your private keys are created and stored on a permanently airgapped device, then this matters less.

Quote from: blue Snow on July 19, 2023, 07:18:36 PM

because for me, keeping lots of note (private key) make me discomfiture how to save in a safe place.

If you are creating a new wallet and sending your coins over to it, and emptying your old wallet, then there is no real disadvantage to storing your old seed phrase and new seed phrase in the same place. I wouldn't shred your old seed phrase just in case (never delete a wallet!), but if your back up location is secure then you don't need a different location for your new seed phrase.

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on July 19, 2023, 09:08:29 AM

Quote from: blue Snow on July 18, 2023, 09:13:22 PM

So that case, if you want to recover your fund from Electrum to Core, you shouldn't use that mnemonic seed, but you have to get the private key 1st on your Electrum wallet to be able to import to the bitcoin core wallet. It's vice versa, you have to get the private key on core to be able to import it to the Electrum wallet.

Although your are correct, but it is better to generate a new wallet and send the coins to it instead of extracting the private key and including it in the Core wallet.

I am still confused why we have to create a new wallet instead can restore it with a private key?
because for me, keeping lots of note (private key) make me discomfiture how to save in a safe place.
So when only have 1 key, I'll be more focused and can freely to keep it in a place where I think is no one knows that.
Create a new wallet also complicated for me, I must used a PC which never connect to internet.

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Quote from: blue Snow on July 18, 2023, 09:13:22 PM

Yes, I am aware of this. But what if I want to show an explicit difference between a non-custodial wallet like Electrum and a non custodial wallet that also runs a node like Bitcoin core. What better name should I call the later?

You are comparing two different types of wallets, the correct comparison is between them Full node wallet like Bitcoin core and SPV wallet like Electrum The point of comparison between them in terms of privacy, downloading the entire blockchain or the headers and so on while non-custodial wallet VS custodial wallet the difference between them in the security, are you the only one who accesses the private key or others access the private key.

I don't like the terms non-custodial wallet and custodial wallet because if someone else has access to your wallet, we can't call it a wallet, but whatever.

So that case, if you want to recover your fund from Electrum to Core, you shouldn't use that mnemonic seed, but you have to get the private key 1st on your Electrum wallet to be able to import to the bitcoin core wallet. It's vice versa, you have to get the private key on core to be able to import it to the Electrum wallet.

Although your are correct, but it is better to generate a new wallet and send the coins to it instead of extracting the private key and including it in the Core wallet.

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Quote from: virasog on July 18, 2023, 07:21:27 PM

But what if I want to show an explicit difference between a non-custodial wallet like Electrum and a non custodial wallet that also runs a node like Bitcoin core. What better name should I call the later?

You can call it a full node wallet.

Unless you are some sort of techy person or a developer, you do not need to download the whole database on your system.

Although I obviously agree more people will just use Electrum, you don't need to be technical to download Core. Anyone who wants the security of being able to verify everything locally or the privacy of not having to connect to third party servers should download Core. And it is very easy to set up.

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Yes, I am aware of this. But what if I want to show an explicit difference between a non-custodial wallet like Electrum and a non custodial wallet that also runs a node like Bitcoin core. What better name should I call the later?

if you explore further between them (bitcoin core and Electrum) you will find explicit differences like, the electrum wallet uses a 12 mnemonic seed while the bitcoin core does not. So that case, if you want to recover your fund from Electrum to Core, you shouldn't use that mnemonic seed, but you have to get the private key 1st on your Electrum wallet to be able to import to the bitcoin core wallet. It's vice versa, you have to get the private key on core to be able to import it to the Electrum wallet.

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Quote from: Z-tight on July 12, 2023, 02:25:55 PM

I mainly use Bitcoin Core for sending and receiving Bitcoins.

Is it bad idea to use Bitcoin Core for the main wallet? I don't trust any online exchanges, that require my private keys.

Thanks,

Why don't you use an Electrum wallet instead of bitcoin core. Unless you are some sort of techy person or a developer, you do not need to download the whole database on your system.

I think Electrum is as good as Bitcoin core wallet but if you want to completely secure your wallet, you better go for the hardware wallets.

BTC stored in any wallet can be lost if the owner doesn't have good operational security, it doesn't matter if it is BTC core, Electrum, BlueWallet or any other wallet. Hot wallets can be hacked, so cold wallets are safer than hot wallets, but in either of them if your seed phrase is exposed, the funds would be lost. If you know how to store and use your funds in a safe enviroment, the chances of losing it is very low.

If you lose your seed phrases or expose your seed phrases to anyone, then the wallet security has nothing to do with any mishap, it is your own carelessness which may lead to the loss of funds from your wallet.

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on July 13, 2023, 09:20:16 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on July 13, 2023, 05:39:37 AM

I well know that security depends on us and how we set up the wallet be it a non custodial wallet or bitcoin core.

Take note it's not that bitcoin core and non-constodial wallets are two different categories of wallets.
Any wallet that gives us full access to our private keys is called a non-custodial wallet. This means that bitcoin core is also a non-custodial wallet.

Yes, I am aware of this. But what if I want to show an explicit difference between a non-custodial wallet like Electrum and a non custodial wallet that also runs a node like Bitcoin core. What better name should I call the later?

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Quote from: Zoomic on July 13, 2023, 05:39:37 AM

I well know that security depends on us and how we set up the wallet be it a non custodial wallet or bitcoin core.

Take note it's not that bitcoin core and non-constodial wallets are two different categories of wallets.
Any wallet that gives us full access to our private keys is called a non-custodial wallet. This means that bitcoin core is also a non-custodial wallet.

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on July 11, 2023, 04:11:58 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 13, 2023, 02:30:56 AM

But if I were Op, I will take your recommendation by using some non custodial that can connect to my bitcoin core full node. I just feel bitcoin in the core if not taken good care of will lose be in the network

What are you trying to say? You can’t lose Bitcoins “in the network”. Coins stored in Bitcoin Core can be as safe as those stored in any other non-custodial wallet, as long as.. they’re properly stored. That’s literally all you need to do, just keep them safe.

Ok, thanks for this explanation. I well know that security depends on us and how we set up the wallet be it a non custodial wallet or bitcoin core.

Quote from: joniboini on July 12, 2023, 09:23:37 PM

Running a node is not the opposite of offering a wallet functionality. CMIIW.

Bitcoin Core software is a full node and a software wallet. You can use it as both, or you can use it just for the full node functionality.

This is great explanation. As someone running a node means you are holding the blockchain data in your custody, you can fetch and use without looking upto to third parties.

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Quote from: joniboini on July 12, 2023, 09:23:37 PM

Running a node is not the opposite of offering a wallet functionality. CMIIW.

Bitcoin Core software is a full node and a software wallet. You can use it as both, or you can use it just for the full node functionality.

There are many other software wallets which can be linked (either directly or indirectly via additional server software) to your Bitcoin Core node. This means that instead of your software wallet connecting to a bunch of third parties in order to obtain blockchain data and therefore leaking your privacy, it will connect only to your own Bitcoin Core node. All the data it needs about transaction history, address balances, and so on, is pulled exclusively from your own node, and so your privacy is maintained.

Popular such wallets are Electrum and Sparrow.

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If not for the question Op asked I wouldn't know that bitcoin core also stores coins like non custodial wallets. I have thought that it is only for running nodes.

I think you still misunderstand some things regarding how non-custodial wallet work or what a node is. Some people run their own nodes and use non-custodial wallets because they can verify the transaction themselves, or for privacy reasons. Running a node is not the opposite of offering a wallet functionality. CMIIW.

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I just feel bitcoin in the core if not taken good care of will lose be in the network

BTC stored in any wallet can be lost if the owner doesn't have good operational security, it doesn't matter if it is BTC core, Electrum, BlueWallet or any other wallet. Hot wallets can be hacked, so cold wallets are safer than hot wallets, but in either of them if your seed phrase is exposed, the funds would be lost. If you know how to store and use your funds in a safe enviroment, the chances of losing it is very low.

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But if I were Op, I will take your recommendation by using some non custodial that can connect to my bitcoin core full node. I just feel bitcoin in the core if not taken good care of will lose be in the network

What are you trying to say? You can’t lose Bitcoins “in the network”. Coins stored in Bitcoin Core can be as safe as those stored in any other non-custodial wallet, as long as.. they’re properly stored. That’s literally all you need to do, just keep them safe.

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Quote from: mk4 on July 07, 2023, 10:20:15 PM

I mainly use Bitcoin Core for sending and receiving Bitcoins.

You have many other options if you don't use Bitcoin Core and you can check it there https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

Quote

Is it bad idea to use Bitcoin Core for the main wallet?

It is good but with Bitcoin Core, you have two modes: full node and prune node.

Pros and Cons of Bitcoin Node types (Full node and Prune node)

Quote

I don't trust any online exchanges, that require my private keys.

I don't understand.

Online centralized exchanges don't require your private keys because you don't own any private key. They own it and don't share private key with you. You are the person who might want to request centralized exchanges to share private keys.

More important, if a private key is known by 2+ parties, like you and exchange, it is no longer a private key! You can move your coin, exchange can move your coin, that private key no longer serves its core purposes.

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Other non-custodial wallets exist. I don't use Bitcoin Core as my 'main' wallet simply because of the bad UX. Take note that some non-custodial wallets allows connecting to your Bitcoin Core full node.

If not for the question Op asked I wouldn't know that bitcoin core also stores coins like non custodial wallets. I have thought that it is only for running nodes.
But if I were Op, I will take your recommendation by using some non custodial that can connect to my bitcoin core full node. I just feel bitcoin in the core if not taken good care of will lose be in the network

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 11, 2023, 03:37:15 AM

Quote from: Findingnemo on July 10, 2023, 08:53:53 PM

SPV wallets such as Electrum rely on trusted full nodes to verify transactions

There is nothing trusted about third-party Electrum servers. Anyone at all can spin up a server and open it up to the public. It is almost certain that many such servers belong to blockchain analysis companies which are using them to link addresses together, link wallets to IP addresses, and de-anonymize users as much as possible. You have to trust the servers you connect to not to feed you incorrect data, but I wouldn't say the servers are "trusted".

The only really safe way to run Electrum is by connecting it to your own server attached to your own node.

Connecting to such nodes may expose all our addresses to the server that we are connected in but that is why I said 'trusted' instead of 'safe and private'. So it is suitable for anyone who stores a small amount of BTC but wants to have access to the keys . But for someone who seeks integrity for their data then their only choice is to connect their own node to their own server which pushes with no other option other than downloading entire blockchain data so they never have to rely on trusted/third party servers.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: yhiaali3 on July 11, 2023, 04:13:16 AM

I mainly use Bitcoin Core for sending and receiving Bitcoins.

Is it bad idea to use Bitcoin Core for the main wallet? I don't trust any online exchanges, that require my private keys.

Thanks,

bitcoin core is wallet created by Satosi, I think they more safe. But if you forget the password, you can't recovery it.

Only the initial versions of Bitcoin Core have Satoshi code in it. Since then, it has been completely rewritten multiple times, but there are always the PGP keys from the Bitcoin Core organization developers which can be used to verify the release downloads, and each release is built by multiple people to ensure there is no security bug or hidden malware inside it.

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Bitcoin Core is a completely secure wallet

There is no such thing as a completely secure wallet. Some are more secure than others, but every wallet in existence (and indeed, every electronic device) has possible attack vectors.

I would also point out that Bitcoin Core is not a particularly secure wallet when used as a hot wallet. It is like any other hot wallet - it is only secure as the machine which is running it. If it is being ran on a machine which is used daily to browse the internet, download files, stream media, etc., then it is in a very risky environment and could easily be exposed to malware.

Running a node is necessary for the security of being able to independently verify all the blockchain data, but it is not sufficient to protect your coins. For any significant amount of coins then you ideally want them on an airgapped wallet, with a watch only wallet linked to your copy of Bitcoin Core.

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Bitcoin Core is a completely secure wallet that has all the required specifications, especially privacy, but its main problem is the large amount of space it needs on the device that you want to install it on.

Especially for some people with poor internet connection it will be difficult for them to download this huge amount of data, while there are many safe alternatives.

In any case, every wallet has advantages and disadvantages. Even hardware wallets, which are considered the most secure types of wallets, have recently been shown to have many disadvantages. Therefore, the Bitcoin wallet remains a personal choice and each person is responsible for choosing the wallet that best suits his needs.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on July 10, 2023, 08:53:53 PM

SPV wallets such as Electrum rely on trusted full nodes to verify transactions

There is nothing trusted about third party Electrum servers. Anyone at all can spin up a server and open it up to the public. It is almost certain that many such servers belong to blockchain analysis companies which are using them to link addresses together, link wallets to IP addresses, and de-anonymize users as much as possible. You have to trust the servers you connect to not to feed you incorrect data, but I wouldn't say the servers are "trusted".

The only really safe way to run Electrum is by connecting it to your own server attached to your own node.

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Quote from: GR Sasa on July 08, 2023, 04:54:21 AM

Thanks for answers together,

I have Bitcoin Core installed on Windows 11.

I mostly run it with a node, running internet.

And no, i don't have big amount of Bitcoins, but i prefer using Bitcoin Core, because its been popular wallet since 2010

If you wish then you can but its not really necessary and recommended when you don't have much amount or not really expect the utmost privacy. SPV wallets such as Electrum rely on trusted full nodes to verify transactions and only store block headers, transaction history, and the user's private keys.

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Quote from: RickDeckard on July 08, 2023, 09:05:15 AM

...

I just want to add to what you have said that although only the most recent blocks (the number of blocks dépend on the node'd configuration) wilm be stored on your hard drive when running a pruned node, you still need to download all the bocks from the genesis block till the most recent one when you run bitcoin core for the first time.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

It's no longer most popular wallet though since you need download 500GB+ of blockchain data. Although i expect it always get update as long as Bitcoin is alive.

For anyone wondering that may be unaware: Running the node pruned[1] is always an option though - it decreases the size of the blockchain considerably. The downside of this is that, as the name implies, you won't be holding a complete copy of the blockchain and you won't be able to scan older addresses.

[1]https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#configuration-tuning

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I mainly use Bitcoin Core for sending and receiving Bitcoins.

Is it bad idea to use Bitcoin Core for the main wallet?

Not at all. Bitcoin Core is the wallet which is closely integrated with bitcoin node and the use of it is good for your privacy as there is no need to communicate with third party servers to get wallet balance or send transaction, your node does those things itself. Moreover, if you have 8333 port open your node extends a little bit the bandwidth of bitcoin network thus reducing the network latency.

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Thanks for answers together,

I have Bitcoin Core installed on Windows 11.

I mostly run it with a node, running internet.

And no, i don't have big amount of Bitcoins, but i prefer using Bitcoin Core, because its been popular wallet since 2010

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Other non-custodial wallets exist. I don't use Bitcoin Core as my 'main' wallet simply because of the bad UX. Take note that some non-custodial wallets allows connecting to your Bitcoin Core full node.

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As your main wallet? With huge amount of bitcoin? If you can not run Bitcoin Core offline, do not use it as your main wallet. If you run it online, your wallet is vulnerable to malware.

Bitcoin Core is a privacy wallet, if using it with Tor.

If it is security, you need a cold wallet. For privacy, you need full node wallet like Bitcoin Core.

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Is it bad idea to use Bitcoin Core for the main wallet?

Not a bad idea but the security and protection of your wallet always depend on us how you protect your device from any attack or how secured your device is.

A device without protection and not secured is still vulnerable to any attacks unless you installed it on Ubuntu OS or run it offline.

Do you have a full node? On what OS you installed Bitcoin Core?

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