Bitcoin-Core connections in, advice for n00bs like me :)

shorena

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Quote from: enet on February 04, 2016, 12:23:00 PM

Quote from: Matias on February 04, 2016, 10:41:28 AM

I understood from this that without inbound connections you don't support the network

Supporting the network is meaningless concept. Miners get paid a lot of money to be online and do the Proof-of-work. This is the most important concept in Bitcoin.
Its just that very few understand the actual incentive mechanism and there is a lot misinformation, even by the most prominent core developers. Whether you run a node or not, for the outcome of the network it doesn't matter. Bitcoin is Proof-of-work, and unless you're running a big mining operation it doesn't matter what you do. Mining oligarchs on the other hand can participate in the politics (to an extent which is not clear).

#Full nodes matter, because they decide which transaction reach the miners and which not, they are also the interfaces to the network for light wallets. You cant have only 10 full nodes for the miners and call it bitcoin.

whizz94

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Quote from: enet on February 04, 2016, 12:23:00 PM

Quote from: Matias on February 04, 2016, 10:41:28 AM

I understood from this that without inbound connections you don't support the network

Bitcoin is Proof-of-work, and unless you're running a big mining operation it doesn't matter what you do.

Not quite. The miners quickly move new block data about to the whole world as it is their priority to be mining a "current" and "true" block and not an orphan. The full nodes store the blockchain and in my opinion are undervalued by comparison to their importance to what the bitcoin blockchain does.

I you run a full node then you make a choice version of "core won't-change", "classic 2MB", or "XT 8MB" and your choice is one vote in which version will prevail next year.
If you have an opinion about how that should pan out then cast your vote.

By the way, a full node with "only" 8 connections is rather helpful.

enet

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Quote from: Matias on February 04, 2016, 10:41:28 AM

I understood from this that without inbound connections you don't support the network

Supporting the network is meaningless concept. Miners get paid a lot of money to be online and do the Proof-of-work. This is the most important concept in Bitcoin.
Its just that very few understand the actual incentive mechanism and there is a lot misinformation, even by the most prominent core developers. Whether you run a node or not, for the outcome of the network it doesn't matter. Bitcoin is Proof-of-work, and unless you're running a big mining operation it doesn't matter what you do. Mining oligarchs on the other hand can participate in the politics (to an extent which is not clear).

Matias

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Quote from: gmaxwell on February 04, 2016, 08:07:31 AM

Quote from: Matias on February 02, 2016, 06:42:33 AM

So if i've understood correctly there was no benefit for network at all from my node

Is there something you read that made you think this? If so we could go get it fixed.

I understood from this that without inbound connections you don't support the network

https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#network-configuration

"Network Configuration

If you want to support the Bitcoin network, you must allow inbound connections.

When Bitcoin Core starts, it establishes 8 outbound connections to other full nodes so it can download the latest blocks and transactions. If you just want to use your full node as a wallet, you don’t need more than these 8 connections—but if you want to support lightweight clients and other full nodes on the network, you must allow inbound connections."

What do you think, should Bitcoin core tell in its UI "you don't have inbound connections, we suggest opening port 8333" and maybe point to instructions how to?

I'm rather sure that there are others like me, who don't notice this at first sight.

gmaxwell

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Quote from: Matias on February 02, 2016, 06:42:33 AM

So if i've understood correctly there was no benefit for network at all from my node

Is there something you read that made you think this? If so we could go get it fixed.

As others pointed out, connections are bidirectional and you participate too even if you are only inbound.

But the _biggest_ benefit in running a node is having it protect your own transactions and traffic; that is where the decentralized security-- the rules that can't be violated no matter what, and ultimately what makes Bitcoin Bitcoin, come from. And that property is just as true even if you only have a single connection to the network.

xqus

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Quote from: Jet Cash on February 03, 2016, 07:00:26 AM

Well I agree with that, but a reduction in nodes could lead to the risk of centralisation. Outbound only nodes can help avoid this.

Pruning could also lead to an increase in nodes accepting inbound connections.

I agree. Hopefully more people will run Bitcoin-QT, resulting in at least more pruned nodes.

Jet Cash

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Well I agree with that, but a reduction in nodes could lead to the risk of centralisation. Outbound only nodes can help avoid this.

Pruning could also lead to an increase in nodes accepting inbound connections.

xqus

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Quote from: Jet Cash on February 03, 2016, 05:55:28 AM

Quote from: xqus on February 02, 2016, 09:20:17 AM

In a way you are helping. But in another way you are not helping. You are using 8 of all the available node connections, but not providing any more available connections for the network.

Why is that a problem? All nodes have multiple connections, so you are only using one connection on each of those nodes. I believe that you are also verifying transactions, and that is also helpful.

It will be a problem if nobody accept incoming connections. Because in order to get outbound connections you depend on someone accepting incoming connections.

Jet Cash

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Quote from: xqus on February 02, 2016, 09:20:17 AM

In a way you are helping. But in another way you are not helping. You are using 8 of all the available node connections, but not providing any more available connections for the network.

Why is that a problem? All nodes have multiple connections, so you are only using one connection on each of those nodes. I believe that you are also verifying transactions, and that is also helpful.

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: xqus on February 02, 2016, 09:20:17 AM

-snip-
In a way you are helping. But in another way you are not helping. You are using 8 of all the available node connections, but not providing any more available connections for the network.

Thats not a problem for the network if you limit your node to 8 connections. It might be some time in the future though.

xqus

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Quote from: shorena on February 02, 2016, 06:51:21 AM

Quote from: Matias on February 02, 2016, 06:42:33 AM

Yesterday I realized, that I'm actually not running Bitcoin Core as I thought. I previously thought that I'm helping bitcoin network by validationg blocks etc, but yesterday I realised, that I don't have any connections in. So if i've understood correctly there was no benefit for network at all from my node.

I noticed it from this

https://bitnodes.21.co/

So, please check that you are connected Grin

If you are not, you have to open port 8333.

If you only have the 8 outbound connections you are helping. You can however help more if you allow inbound connections. As the message says you have to open the port 8333:

# on the machine running the node
# on the device that connects it to the internet
# if the device does NAT you have to forward the port to the local IP of the machine with the node.

In a way you are helping. But in another way you are not helping. You are using 8 of all the available node connections, but not providing any more available connections for the network.

shorena

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Activity: 1498

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: Matias on February 02, 2016, 07:20:27 AM

Quote from: shorena on February 02, 2016, 07:12:49 AM

Once the road is build (no matter by whom) the traffic can flow in both directions.

Ok. Good.

But nodes with only outbound connections don't show in eg https://bitnodes.21.co/ so the actual number of active nodes is bigger than the number based on those kinds of estimates?

Yes, that site can only list nodes that accept outbound connections and are not at the limit. E.g. my node is limited to 42 connections currently. If it already holds 42, bitnodes will show the same error as if I would not accept connections at all.

Matias

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Quote from: shorena on February 02, 2016, 07:12:49 AM

Once the road is build (no matter by whom) the traffic can flow in both directions.

Ok. Good.

But nodes with only outbound connections don't show in eg https://bitnodes.21.co/ so the actual number of active nodes is bigger than the number based on those kinds of estimates?

shorena

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Activity: 1498

Merit: 1520

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: Matias on February 02, 2016, 06:57:01 AM

As I said, I'm n00b, but I thought that if you only have outbound connections, you are only loading blocks, not sending anything??

No, its not a one way street. Its still a two way street, the question is who build it. An outbound connection is build by you, thus allowed through your firewall (because most firewalls by default let everything out, but only some things in). An inbound connection would be build by someone else, e.g. me, so the device that is directly connected to the internet (probably some sort of router modem combination) would need to know what to do with my request to build a road on port 8333. It must know which internal computer can handle this request and the internal computer must accept it as well.

Once the road is build (no matter by whom) the traffic can flow in both directions.

Matias

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Activity: 182

Merit: 101

As I said, I'm n00b, but I thought that if you only have outbound connections, you are only loading blocks, not sending anything??

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1520

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: Matias on February 02, 2016, 06:42:33 AM

Yesterday I realized, that I'm actually not running Bitcoin Core as I thought. I previously thought that I'm helping bitcoin network by validationg blocks etc, but yesterday I realised, that I don't have any connections in. So if i've understood correctly there was no benefit for network at all from my node.

I noticed it from this

https://bitnodes.21.co/

So, please check that you are connected Grin

If you are not, you have to open port 8333.

If you only have the 8 outbound connections you are helping. You can however help more if you allow inbound connections. As the message says you have to open the port 8333:

# on the machine running the node
# on the device that connects it to the internet
# if the device does NAT you have to forward the port to the local IP of the machine with the node.

Matias

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 101

Yesterday I realized, that I'm actually not running Bitcoin Core as I thought. I previously thought that I'm helping bitcoin network by validationg blocks etc, but yesterday I realised, that I don't have any connections in. So if i've understood correctly there was no benefit for network at all from my node.

I noticed it from this

https://bitnodes.21.co/

So, please check that you are connected Grin

If you are not, you have to open port 8333.

Topic: Bitcoin-Core connections in, advice for n00bs like me :) (Read 1266 times)