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Topic: Bitcoin ecosystem’s weakness (Read 542 times)

newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
August 09, 2022, 03:07:50 AM
#57
The fluctuation of bitcoin price and the different transaction speed require people to be aware of network security, but there are many more people who do not know the existence of bitcoin.
But the Bitcoin system is constantly updated and developed.
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1420
November 24, 2021, 08:51:16 PM
#56
This is the latest news from Kazakhstan and it appears that their government did not have the need to ban mining hehe. It was the miners that shut down their farms by themselves. I speculate in some areas in China, it would be a similar situation if there was no ban.

In any case, Kazakhstan‘s government is encouraging the miners to create an independent renewable capacity. This appears to be another chance for Tether, Bitfinex, iFinex to issue bonds and do another project similar to their geothermal energy project in El Salvador.



Mining in south Kazakhstan is no longer possible, Xive co-founder Didar Bekbau said.

Crypto mining company Xive shut down a 2,500-rig mine in South Kazakhstan due to lack of sufficient electricity supply from the national grid, co-founder Didar Bekbau told CoinDesk on Wednesday.

Kazakhstan has been grappling with electricity shortages, partly caused by an influx of crypto miners from China. The southern part of the country is particularly vulnerable as the region lacks abundant electricity generating plants and the national grid cannot reliably transfer electricity from the energy-rich northern region.

Crypto miners, like Xive and Enegix, have been facing electricity issues since September due to rationing from KEGOC, the national grid operator. KEGOC did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Xive is preparing a new site for the over 2,500 machines, but “it is clear that mining in south Kazakhstan is not possible anymore,” Bekbau told CoinDesk.

Recently, the government said it wants to encourage crypto miners to develop independent renewable energy capacity. The industry hopes that after Kazakhstan expands its renewable electricity capacity in the next one-two years, the limit might change, Sapar Akhmetov, chairman of the board of the Kazakhstan Association of Blockchain Technology told CoinDesk.


Source https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/24/crypto-miner-xive-shuts-down-south-kazakhstan-mine-due-to-electricity-woes/
hero member
Activity: 2296
Merit: 757
November 17, 2021, 06:47:22 PM
#55
Whatever the government does will always side with fiat because of their own interests with the alibi of protecting the public from scams.  In the future, it will be difficult for people to do mining with restrictions on mining permits which will certainly be issued by the government.  Another thing, I think in the future this mining can only be done by the government and certain people, because here it has a very large profit.  Even if the government is aware.
After the last halving, and if you can check updated news about mining farms, you should had been notified about how many small farms shut down their mining activities and some had just changed the whole concept of the company. Mining is already reserved for some big companis an few solo miners who should have hash power of one of those companies to get benefits from their activities.
sr. member
Activity: 1806
Merit: 418
Need a campaign manager? | Telegram:@worldofcoinss
November 17, 2021, 04:47:28 PM
#54
Banning Bitcoin mining from a specific jurisdiction is really a weakness of the Bitcoin ecosystem? Bitcoin mining wouldn't depend on only a jurisdiction, what happened when China banned Bitcoin ban? Nothing, it's just an impact on Bitcoin price for a small time. But didn't affect on overall Bitcoin ecosystem. A few jurisdictions will ban and a few jurisdictions will allow. That's what ecosystem.

China dislikes decentralization as a whole.
They didn't go this only with Bitcoin but there's another huge firm owner of China who launched a payment system and faced huge problems by the Communist party. There are things that are out of your control in china and many other nations they want to lead the people in a certain way and dislike the idea of their control being challenged by any Payment Gateway Or Bitcoin.

So it's natural they ban it.
sr. member
Activity: 966
Merit: 421
Bitcoindata.science
November 17, 2021, 01:23:21 PM
#53
That is a good point to discuss. I am always wondering why government is trying to stop such operations if they know very well they getting paid for the electricity bills and also getting the taxes whenever miners sell the crypto for fiat. The whole ecosystem is properly managed by self driven moves. There is no hiding of the assets as long as miners are selling it for the fiat currency and when the money is deposited in the bank accounts.

What I mean is simple, there is no illegal activities as such as long as we are mining and giving back what is government entitled for (taxes).

No one should convince you that the government will be completely in support of Bitcoin mining someday. The government loves to be in charge of what ever their citizens do and would always like to know how much of it is in circulation and who owns which and since it's becoming a challenge to keep stock of this in Bitcoin they are trying hard to track down the mining process so they can get a fraction of regulation on Bitcoin. If the high power consumption on Bitcoin mining can be reduced I think we would help curb this challenge
hero member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 574
November 17, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
#52
Whatever the government does will always side with fiat because of their own interests with the alibi of protecting the public from scams.  In the future, it will be difficult for people to do mining with restrictions on mining permits which will certainly be issued by the government.  Another thing, I think in the future this mining can only be done by the government and certain people, because here it has a very large profit.  Even if the government is aware.
legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 1794
November 17, 2021, 03:55:16 AM
#51
It was Iran. Plus the U.S. and Kazakhstan.

Actually most of them moved to Kazakhstan. Iran had a nice hash rate before the China ban. In fact during Trump era Iran included bitcoin in their annual budget to be used for imports/exports too but everything about Iran's international trades is kept under wraps (unless it is with another sanctioned nation or China) so we don't really know the real values.
By my estimates according to some reports of energy consumption and the taxes, I believe Iran currently has a little less than 20% of the total hashrate and that is growing fast.

Keep in mind that electricity in Iran has always been dirt cheap (0.002 $/KWH), a lot less than China.


I believe if the potential advantages for HODLing Bitcoin is truly understood by these countries with “dirt cheap” electricity, the government themselves would be setting up their own mining farms. The advantages will be understood, after realization that the inflation seen all around is irreversible.
hero member
Activity: 2142
Merit: 584
You own the pen
November 16, 2021, 10:45:57 PM
#50
Sweden's planned ban on Bitcoin mining in the European Union is not a weakness of the Bitcoin ecosystem, all of this is simply because Sweden is weak in making regulations that accept bitcoin and Sweden may deliberately ban cryptomining so that Bitcoin prices can fall.

It won't affect us we can see what was happening with the banning of bitcoins in China, it didn't give a change to the flow of the market and that's what they have really wanted to make. They wanted to cause something outrageous that will ruin the economy of the crypto market. But as we can see, a powerful country like China can't do anything with it. so what about Sweden? they can suggest what they want, at the end of the day we are the ones who will take benefit from it.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1332
November 16, 2021, 08:50:50 PM
#49
Bitcoin is really just a popular shitcoin , that’s all nothing more. It’s similar to many other coins which have been classified as shitcoins because they aren’t popular. Even though some have good projects

People are said to become poor because they make bad decisions. What do you think, is there any truth in that?

O course it can drop below 5k probably not zero , anyhow , I got a gut feeling the the whole crypto markets going to crash soon, all the Alts are so over valued it’s ridiculous,

Definitely a bad call. Instead of going with your gut, use your brain next time.
newbie
Activity: 104
Merit: 0
November 16, 2021, 07:21:41 PM
#48
Bitcoin is really just a popular shitcoin , that’s all nothing more. It’s similar to many other coins which have been classified as shitcoins because they aren’t popular. Even though some have good projects
legendary
Activity: 2786
Merit: 1112
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
November 16, 2021, 04:38:42 PM
#47
You said something about if they are able to ban Bitcoin or regulate it in the Europe, then that means that bitcoin’s ecosystem is weak?In a way that seems accurate, and the community should look into it. This is Bitcoin mining that we’re talking about here, and the government trying to ban it. These days cryptocurrency is being mined by big companies, because it has gotten difficult to the extent that it cannot be mined by individuals just in their homes.

So, now we have to rely on big companies, and these companies in most countries they have to obtain a permit from the government to be able to run this kind of huge operation that will consume lots of energy. So, it’s always easy for the government to track down these companies and shut them down if they want to.This is like a fault in Bitcoin and it kind of weakens the system, because the government is able to shut down the mining companies. Maybe if it were still easy for individuals to continue mining it from the comfort of their homes, then it wouldn’t have been like this.
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 6108
Jambler.io
November 16, 2021, 12:07:34 PM
#46
Well you could use google. The dispute over payment is a very long one. Just 3 days before the export cut, Iraq was "promising" to pay long overdue payments which they didn't pay until the export stopped. I don't know where the dispute is at right now.

Bruh...
You realize your article is older than mine?  Grin
The crisis came after that, not the other way around.
Also again, you're showing me the so-called proof, and guess where that leads to:
Just 3 messages ago you told me:

Besides during this time some of the exports were ceased or decreased because of lack of payment (despite what the article said).

Now you quote an article that mentions the PM saying:

Quote
"Tehran has not neglected to export electricity and gas to Iraq,” Mustafa Al-Kadhimi made the remarks in an emergency meeting with governors in which members of the Electricity Crisis Resolution Committee were also present, Al-Manar and Baghdad Al-Youm (Baghdad Today).

Also:

Quote
Iranian Energy Minister Reza Ardakanian said on Wednesday that Iraq owes Iran the money for less than two months of electricity imports and the rest of the dues in this sector have been settled, IRIB reported.

So again, who am I going to believe, one prime minister and one energy minister...or you?
Nope, not going to happen. Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 3402
Merit: 10424
November 16, 2021, 11:48:38 AM
#45
There is no increase in output in sight anywhere, it is impossible to increase that overnight,
I never claimed it will be increased overnight! Considering the electricity production has nearly doubled over the past 4 decades in Iran, another 35% increase specially now that Iran's nuclear program is not limited anymore and new plants are being opened up, is not that big.

Quote
And again as in the last months, you want me to believe a random guy on the internet and not an official statement by the spokesman of that country. Sorry, but how about no!  Grin
Well you could use google. The dispute over payment is a very long one. Just 3 days before the export cut, Iraq was "promising" to pay long overdue payments which they didn't pay until the export stopped. I don't know where the dispute is at right now.
This is not the first or only case either. e.g. In 2020 it was "gas bill" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-27/iran-and-iraq-to-discuss-unpaid-bills-resuming-normal-gas-flows
There are more cases of export cuts as the unpaid bills pile up.

FYI Iraq is currently withholding $6 billion of Iran's money.

Quote
If we talk about Iran we talk about Iran
Actually all 3 incidents was about Iran and all 3 also involved some of the "toys" you mentioned which is why I brought it up. Cheesy
Ucy
sr. member
Activity: 2576
Merit: 401
November 16, 2021, 11:39:57 AM
#44
I have read an article that the Swedish regulators are proposing a ban on cryptomining in the European Union.

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.


Ofcourse. Sometimes I wonder why much attention has been paid to the bolded part. In my opinion, clustering lots of miners on one or few places happened so quickly and at the wrong time. It could be considered a single point of failure.
The Bitcoin Network should be encouraging properly distributed/decentralized mining to help in securing the Network. Once a Network is losing is decentralization, you could be right if you think it's becoming less secure. By the way, other Blockchain Principles are affected once a cryptocurrency start losing it's decentralization.

The only reason centralized organizations/companies appear safe is because we don't know much about what they do in secret, and they are kind of protected or are not too bothered by governments once they are licensed
full member
Activity: 338
Merit: 100
November 16, 2021, 11:29:57 AM
#43
Sweden's planned ban on Bitcoin mining in the European Union is not a weakness of the Bitcoin ecosystem, all of this is simply because Sweden is weak in making regulations that accept bitcoin and Sweden may deliberately ban cryptomining so that Bitcoin prices can fall.
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 6108
Jambler.io
November 16, 2021, 10:24:30 AM
#42
I find it really hard to believe your number of 20GW when the energy minister is saying stuff like this!
You are just focusing on that short lived issues (about a month or two) I mentioned in my other comment instead of the whole picture. For example here is recent news about increasing the output by 30000 MW.

Bruh...

despite what the article said

And again as in the last months, you want me to believe a random guy on the internet and not an official statement by the spokesman of that country. Sorry, but how about no!  Grin

Well every government lies or exaggerates about all kinds of stuff, Iran isn't an exclusion. But that doesn't mean just because of one lie, everything else is BS.
For example US Marine Corp were supposed

Let's leave the whataboutism out of it, ok?
I'm so tired of this I don't feel like even discussing it one bit.
If we talk about Iran we talk about Iran, not about the US, not about Trump not about Disney.
It doesn't matter if anyone else is lying also, that doesn't make you better one bit.
legendary
Activity: 3402
Merit: 10424
November 16, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
#41
I find it really hard to believe your number of 20GW when the energy minister is saying stuff like this!
You are just focusing on that short lived issues (about a month or two) I mentioned in my other comment instead of the whole picture. For example here is recent news about increasing the output by 30000 MW.

Besides during this time some of the exports were ceased or decreased because of lack of payment (despite what the article said). Iraq wasn't paying because it was afraid of "maximum pressure" campaign (lol) also in the east US had just fled Afghanistan and there was chaos over there since nobody was really in charge and didn't have access to the funds to pay.

Quote
And they could boast about producing anything, they always do shit like this, from their toy invisible plane to every space-age weapon they've invested, when it comes to reality is stuff like that above that happens.
Well every government lies or exaggerates about all kinds of stuff, Iran isn't an exclusion. But that doesn't mean just because of one lie, everything else is BS.
For example US Marine Corp were supposed to be tough not cry their hearts out when they stared down the barrel of a gun. Or EWR, SAM, THAAD, etc. were supposed to work not stand impotently when the BMs came. Or the AUDS were supposed to see those "toy invisible planes" but they still haven't succeeded in tracking a single one of those that are circulating above their head 24/7. I can go on Wink
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 6108
Jambler.io
November 16, 2021, 09:36:41 AM
#40
Additionally Iran has a lot of spare capacity that has made the country a big exporter of electricity. For example about 25% of Afghanistan (Iran's eastern neighbor) is provided by Iran. There were talks of increasing exports by 400 MW to Pakistan (another neighbor in the east). Same thing in the west with Iraq and Syria.
There are also either smaller amounts exported or exports were for a couple of years to other neighbors such as Turkey, Armenia, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan.

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/462877/Iran-nearly-zeroes-electricity-exports-amid-surging-domestic

Quote
TEHRAN - Iranian Energy Ministry's Spokesman for Electricity Industry Mostafa Rajabi Mashhadi said on Wednesday the country has stopped electricity exports to neighboring countries due to the surge in domestic demand and only 50 megawatts (MW) of electricity is exported to Afghanistan at the moment.
According to Rajabi Mashhadi, the imports of electricity, on the other hand, have been raised to 650 MW and the country is currently importing electricity from Turkmenistan, Armenia, and Azerbaijan, ISNA reported.

Quote
The official had announced on Tuesday that the country’s power plants are currently able to generate only 54,000 MW of electricity which is nearly 12,000 MW less than the domestic power demand.

I find it really hard to believe your number of 20GW when the energy minister is saying stuff like this!  Grin

And they could boast about producing anything, they always do shit like this, from their toy invisible plane to every space-age weapon they've invested, when it comes to reality is stuff like that above that happens. It's like Russia building every year something that would be a killer for western technology, from cars to planes to smartphones.
legendary
Activity: 3402
Merit: 10424
November 16, 2021, 09:30:44 AM
#39
Only a large country with enough spare capacity can do it, that's why both Iran and Kazakhstan were caught off guard by a few tens of thousands of miners settling down,
I don't know about Kazakhstan but Iran's short lived electricity problems had absolutely nothing to do with bitcoin miners. Additionally Iran has a lot of spare capacity that has made the country a big exporter of electricity. For example about 25% of Afghanistan (Iran's eastern neighbor) is provided by Iran. There were talks of increasing exports by 400 MW to Pakistan (another neighbor in the east). Same thing in the west with Iraq and Syria.
There are also either smaller amounts exported or exports were for a couple of years to other neighbors such as Turkey, Armenia, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan.

To say that Iran was caught off guard just because of a tiny increase in electricity usage from miners is just silly. The electric company announced 3 days ago that Iran can increase electricity export by 20000 MW.
legendary
Activity: 3388
Merit: 6072
Crypto Swap Exchange
November 16, 2021, 09:24:34 AM
#38
The only problem EU currently has is Putin's boot on their neck as he is controlling the gas flow to EU and he has decreased it recently to push the price up. Otherwise their eco-movement is a joke and will be forgotten when Russia loosens the valves to let more gas reach EU. Smiley

Possibly, but you wind up in the situation that parts of the US have had. Once conservation methods were put in place when fuel prices dropped the demand took years to get back where it was.
There are several amusement parks in the US with massive solar farms and battery storage. During the hottest days of the summer they are using a fraction of the grid power that they used to.
When natural gas prices dropped and the additional generation / distribution capacity could be built for a good price. It was at a much smaller scale. Which kept the price of the gas down since less was used.

Same with other forms of generation. Wind is 2.5x the solar capacity in the US. (Not counting home rooftop solar) Why, because there are many areas where the wind never really stops during high demand. When gas was down, they kept building wind farms. Not because they were cheap, not because they had an economic advantage over gas fired plants, but because these places had suffered through gas price spikes (power price) and would rather pay a little more all day every day then worry about tomorrows price being 2x todays and the day after being even more.

We are seeing that here in parts of upstate NY, pay more every day but not give a crap about gas price since it's all hydro power. If the water stops flowing downhill it means gravity is broken and we all have bigger problems :-) This is also why a lot of mining operations are moving to NY [pre-built data centers that are no longer in use is the main one by far] But, power that although expensive by comparison to other places, is really not going to vary much in price since it is hydro.

So yeah, Russia has pulled the ramp up the gas prices more then once. It could be this time it could be next time it could be the time after that. But sooner or later it's going to be, "Nah, keep your gas we're good"

 -Dave
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 6108
Jambler.io
November 16, 2021, 08:40:24 AM
#37
I don't think 15% is consider a net importer,

If you sell oil of 10 billion and you import of 10 billion and once cent you're a net importer, that's the definition, if imports outweigh exports you're a net importer.

besides a small country with a very small population of about 6-7 million is not supposed to produce that much electricity because there has never been that much demand for it.

If you import energy then there is demand...  Grin

I'm not an expert but if demand rises, the infrastructure will be built to meet the demand.

This is also limited:
https://www.cne.gob.sv/tema/energias-renovables-2/energia-geotermica/
The maximum installed capacity would be at around 800MW, that's not even two nuclear reactors, of course, they could try and cover the country with solar panels but...that works only during the day, miners need energy 24/7.

It's pretty simple, you can't depend on a country that produces 6twh a year to host at least 44twh. Only a large country with enough spare capacity can do it, that's why both Iran and Kazakhstan were caught off guard by a few tens of thousands of miners settling down, right now there are only three countries in the world that have enough spare capacity to host the entire hashrate, and it's a pretty normal and obvious thing.
legendary
Activity: 3402
Merit: 10424
November 16, 2021, 08:28:38 AM
#36
Salvador is a net importer of electric energy!
The entire production capacity of the country couldn't power more than 1/6 of the current hashrate even if we assume the most efficient gear in terms of j/Gh.
I don't think 15% is consider a net importer, besides a small country with a very small population of about 6-7 million is not supposed to produce that much electricity because there has never been that much demand for it.
I'm not an expert but if demand rises, the infrastructure will be built to meet the demand.

Quote
And if you think that the EU with its crazy eco-movement where everything is solar and wind is too far away from banning anything related to fossil fuel you're deeply mistaken.
The only problem EU currently has is Putin's boot on their neck as he is controlling the gas flow to EU and he has decreased it recently to push the price up. Otherwise their eco-movement is a joke and will be forgotten when Russia loosens the valves to let more gas reach EU. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 6108
Jambler.io
November 16, 2021, 08:05:33 AM
#35
Right now one such country is El Salvador. Already they've booked a big profit out of bitcoin adoption. Now the government will whole heartedly welcome miners, if something like a ban happens around.

Salvador is a net importer of electric energy!
The entire production capacity of the country couldn't power more than 1/6 of the current hashrate even if we assume the most efficient gear in terms of j/Gh.
And no, there is no magical geothermal well that out of the blue will produce that energy.

The government will have to ban all the businesses and households that are consuming "dirty" electricity as well.All businesses should be treated equally.Right? Grin

That's exactly what China is doing Grin , they have a list of activities that are going to be phased out completely, one criteria is how energy intensive that activity is.
And if you think that the EU with its crazy eco-movement where everything is solar and wind is too far away from banning anything related to fossil fuel you're deeply mistaken. Politicians here are ready to tell us to stay in cold and have rationalized electricity and planned blackouts rather than admitting we can't live a normal life without "dirty" energy.
legendary
Activity: 3402
Merit: 10424
November 16, 2021, 07:56:32 AM
#34
It was Iran. Plus the U.S. and Kazakhstan.
Actually most of them moved to Kazakhstan. Iran had a nice hash rate before the China ban. In fact during Trump era Iran included bitcoin in their annual budget to be used for imports/exports too but everything about Iran's international trades is kept under wraps (unless it is with another sanctioned nation or China) so we don't really know the real values.
By my estimates according to some reports of energy consumption and the taxes, I believe Iran currently has a little less than 20% of the total hashrate and that is growing fast.
Keep in mind that electricity in Iran has always been dirt cheap (0.002 $/KWH), a lot less than China.
legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 1794
November 16, 2021, 07:41:49 AM
#33
I can guarantee you.... there will always be a country that would give a big f_ck you to the rest of the world ...and they will allow Bitcoin and Crypto mining. When the hashing power goes down... the difficulty goes down and these people in those countries will once again be able to mine Bitcoin with GPU's and CPU's.

You will even see people moving their whole Bitcoin operation from these "banned" countries to the Bitcoin friendly countries and everything will stay the same. (Like we saw with the Chinese banning Bitcoin mining in China)  Grin Grin Grin Grin


El Salvador is that country. I believe others like Iran, and other nation-states that are being sanctioned, and those that will be sanctioned will use the currency that solves the problem of censorship. Once HODLed, and the value of the protocol is truly realized, the HODLer-state will protect it, help/add value to it.

Right now one such country is El Salvador. Already they've booked a big profit out of bitcoin adoption. Now the government will whole heartedly welcome miners, if something like a ban happens around.


Because El Salvador is a Nation-State-HODLer. They will need to secure their investment’s success. Part of Bitcoin’s success is motivated by incentives and greed.

Quote

When the Chinese government made a ban, more miners moved to Iraq, and within a short the illegal usage of electricity on mining peaked whereas only 5% did it with proper registration. So, they took steps to have control over it and restricted. Then once again the government allowed mining. So, one way or the other the process will continue without any big impact to the network.


It was Iran. Plus the U.S. and Kazakhstan.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 900
November 16, 2021, 07:12:43 AM
#32
1.This is just a proposal,not an actual ban.There's no need to panic over proposals,gossips and all kinds of unnecessary drama.
2.The idea of banning a business,just because that business consumes "dirty" electricity which was produced by burning coal is ridiculous.The government will have to ban all the businesses and households that are consuming "dirty" electricity as well.All businesses should be treated equally.Right? Grin
3.Sweden and Europe in general aren't important for crypto mining at all,so why do you even care about this news.
4.The idea of reviving ASICs mining doesn't sound good to me.It will create more problems rather than become a solution for the fake "environmental" crypto mining problem.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 3368
Crypto Swap Exchange
November 16, 2021, 06:58:24 AM
#31
However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate.
~Snipped~
Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.
Even if that becomes the law, realistically, they can't stop every single miner in those regions! The small-scale miners with access to renewable sources [e.g. solar panels] at home, will continue their operations and I wouldn't be surprised to see other home miners [with only a few mining rigs] underclocking what they already have [with schedules mining times] so it wouldn't be obvious that they're mining at home!
- In other words, that's not a weakness!

and those that will be sanctioned will use the currency that solves the problem of censorship. Once HODLed, and the value of the protocol is truly realized, the HODLer-state will protect it, help/add value to it.
By hodling it, they're not actually using it and I don't think it could have a positive impact on the issue in question.
sr. member
Activity: 2254
Merit: 361
November 15, 2021, 10:32:22 PM
#30
Why is this a weakness of the Bitcoin ecosystem? PoW is one of the strengths of Bitcoin. But this is barely about the Bitcoin ecosystem. This is more about the opponents and critics of Bitcoin looking for a way to counter its ever increasing global influence. But this will not succeed. The opponents and critics of Bitcoin should rather focus on the weakness of fiat and the fiat economy and improve them because their failure is the fuel of Bitcoin. Right now the level of fiat inflation is adding more fuel to the Bitcoin fire.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1105
Tontogether | Save Smart & Win Big
November 15, 2021, 07:18:14 PM
#29
I can guarantee you.... there will always be a country that would give a big f_ck you to the rest of the world ...and they will allow Bitcoin and Crypto mining. When the hashing power goes down... the difficulty goes down and these people in those countries will once again be able to mine Bitcoin with GPU's and CPU's.

You will even see people moving their whole Bitcoin operation from these "banned" countries to the Bitcoin friendly countries and everything will stay the same. (Like we saw with the Chinese banning Bitcoin mining in China)  Grin Grin Grin Grin


El Salvador is that country. I believe others like Iran, and other nation-states that are being sanctioned, and those that will be sanctioned will use the currency that solves the problem of censorship. Once HODLed, and the value of the protocol is truly realized, the HODLer-state will protect it, help/add value to it.
Right now one such country is El Salvador. Already they've booked a big profit out of bitcoin adoption. Now the government will whole heartedly welcome miners, if something like a ban happens around. When the Chinese government made a ban, more miners moved to Iraq, and within a short the illegal usage of electricity on mining peaked whereas only 5% did it with proper registration. So, they took steps to have control over it and restricted. Then once again the government allowed mining. So, one way or the other the process will continue without any big impact to the network.
full member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 109
1xBit.. recovered their reputation
November 15, 2021, 03:06:35 PM
#28
fud and resistance to bitcoin continues to emerge and it will not weaken the bitcoin ecosystem

The EU may restrict the movement of miners but not miners in other continents. at this time no country really has a strong influence on the price of bitcoin except the US and as long as the US does not strictly prohibit bitcoin then the price of bitcoin will remain strong
hero member
Activity: 1862
Merit: 830
November 15, 2021, 01:49:53 PM
#27
Problem with license is that :
Generally they are very expensive for the individual miners since the general cost of mining includes the excessive cost of electricity as well. Which does mean that the rules and regulations set by the government might be harmful for the individual/small miners but they would be very much more important for the mining firms, which can swiftly take over the hash rate.

Therefore I do think as long as the marker is dominated by mining companies, there won't be any bigger/ excessive change.

Other than that I do think the legality of owning an ASIC is not one sided, it's much dependent upon the government as well.

ASIC resistance is something that might not work worldwide.
member
Activity: 137
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November 15, 2021, 10:16:10 AM
#26
In my opinion, various prohibitions or regulations to stop the development of Bitcoin in various countries are being carried out, this is because the government does not want Bitcoin to continue to grow and shift the position of fiat, this is unavoidable in my opinion because we as ordinary people want a financial alternative that is resistant to inflation, Bitcoin is here to solve that problem. Now as the development of Bitcoin is increasingly accepted by the public, regulations continue to be made by regulators to stop its development.
legendary
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November 15, 2021, 07:36:17 AM
#25
I can guarantee you.... there will always be a country that would give a big f_ck you to the rest of the world ...and they will allow Bitcoin and Crypto mining. When the hashing power goes down... the difficulty goes down and these people in those countries will once again be able to mine Bitcoin with GPU's and CPU's.

You will even see people moving their whole Bitcoin operation from these "banned" countries to the Bitcoin friendly countries and everything will stay the same. (Like we saw with the Chinese banning Bitcoin mining in China)  Grin Grin Grin Grin


El Salvador is that country. I believe others like Iran, and other nation-states that are being sanctioned, and those that will be sanctioned will use the currency that solves the problem of censorship. Once HODLed, and the value of the protocol is truly realized, the HODLer-state will protect it, help/add value to it.
sr. member
Activity: 1988
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November 14, 2021, 03:40:26 AM
#24
I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.
well probably there are some factors that we don't understand since we're not there on their country and experience what they experienced because of mining activities.. But yeah i will agree that instead of banning the crypto mining perhaps its a good idea if they should start asking for authorization wherein in order to reduce the cost of energy and of course to avoid massive problem again.. Not to implement ban immediately in order to remove all those activities because it's like no mercy for all miners.
legendary
Activity: 1946
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'Life's but a walking shadow'!
November 13, 2021, 02:35:58 PM
#23
Sooner or later, governments will realize that most of their attempted regulations/sanctions can't really affect the Bitcoin network for too long, it would only have a short term effect, but in the long run, Bitcoin would definitely be fine. The whole attack on Bitcoin through the erroneous impression that "Bitcoin is harmful for the environment" is just one of the many ploys of the government to discredit Bitcoin, and if they decide that they do not want Bitcoin mining farms in their countries, then other countries will gladly accept miners, there is no sort of monopoly in this situation. Having said that, I believe that in years to come, many of these countries that are currently hostile to the Bitcoin network would prolly have a change of heart, it has happened previously on many occasions, and this wouldn't be a surprise either.
legendary
Activity: 2464
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Betcoin.ag
November 13, 2021, 02:12:51 PM
#22
-snip-
You will even see people moving their whole Bitcoin operation from these "banned" countries to the Bitcoin friendly countries and everything will stay the same. (Like we saw with the Chinese banning Bitcoin mining in China)  Grin Grin Grin Grin
Learn from the china incident that expelled every miner from china and made the miners move to countries that were pro with bitcoin and became a new field for countries that accepted them as miners.

Countries that accept miners naturally have an advantage.

Currently miners are also aware of the importance of using renewable and environmentally friendly energy, this will also encourage the bitcoin ecosystem to be better.

Countries that adopt bitcoin such as El Salvador are also creating their own bitcoin mining industry by harnessing energy from active volcanoes and this is an innovative use of natural energy.
legendary
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November 13, 2021, 02:10:14 PM
#21
If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem.
Bangladesh banned bitcoin many years ago and Japan, El Salvador, and a lot of other countries adopted bitcoin. Neither showed "weakness in bitcoin ecosystem", this one is no different.

I'd say it would be a weakness if Bitcoin mining couldn't be banned by any country. I like all this news about bans and blocks and sanctions, which continues to tell me that governments and states and legislators still cannot understand how Bitcoin works, and that lets me know I'm still a relatively early adopter.

Anyway, this is all targetted at commercial farms. Not blanket ban on the act of mining.

If Sweden one day brings to court an indie guy for mining crypto, they'll be the laughing stock of Scandinavia.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 2125
November 13, 2021, 01:43:45 PM
#20
Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

Sounds good, doesn't work. Ethereum also envisioned that because of GPU mining they will have a more decentralized network, and yet no one really mines at home with their single GPU that they bought for gaming, almost all mining is done by farms, and they tend to be large data centers and not small-scale home farms. And don't forget how it ruined the GPU market and GPUs essentially got turned into professional tools unavailable for general population.
legendary
Activity: 2212
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November 13, 2021, 12:53:27 PM
#19
Keep in mind, if you follow the OPs post they are somewhat anti-bitcoin or at least anti-POW. Or at least they come off they way IMO.
But, much like the China ban or any other ban it really does not matter.
There are more then enough places to mine, and several places that are actively enticing miners to mine. Several states in the US, and countries all over the world.

The current PoW is not a weakness it's a strength. If you don't like us mining here, we will pack out crap and move and a few months later we are back where people want us.

-Dave

This was my thinking as I read through the thread, Sweden banning Bitcoin mining
(farms) will only open the door for some other country to benefit from the miners
who abandon Sweden. Its sweden's loss.

Maybe sweden is picking and choosing how they meet their emissions targets
and they are picking Bitcoin rather than the obvious fossil fuel industry as mentioned
above by @Darker45, blinker vision again.
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 6108
Jambler.io
November 13, 2021, 12:08:21 PM
#18
When the hashing power goes down... the difficulty goes down and these people in those countries will once again be able to mine Bitcoin with GPU's and CPU's.

Yeah right... Roll Eyes
An Nvidia 3090 does 5000 Mh/s that's by comparison 1/20000 what a S19j does.
So if every family on this planet would have a card that in some places is 6 times more expensive than the average wage, you could still perform a 51% attack with just  100k ASICs. Oh and we will burn 100x times the energy we do now!

The moment the coin is profitable again to mine with a GPU not even thinking of a CPU it is probably after an asteroid impact that left only 0.001% of the population and no electrical grid on the surface of the earth.


legendary
Activity: 3388
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November 13, 2021, 11:13:48 AM
#17
I can guarantee you.... there will always be a country that would give a big f_ck you to the rest of the world ...and they will allow Bitcoin and Crypto mining. When the hashing power goes down... the difficulty goes down and these people in those countries will once again be able to mine Bitcoin with GPU's and CPU's.

You will even see people moving their whole Bitcoin operation from these "banned" countries to the Bitcoin friendly countries and everything will stay the same. (Like we saw with the Chinese banning Bitcoin mining in China)  Grin Grin Grin Grin
legendary
Activity: 3388
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Crypto Swap Exchange
November 13, 2021, 10:13:12 AM
#16
Keep in mind, if you follow the OPs post they are somewhat anti-bitcoin or at least anti-POW. Or at least they come off they way IMO.
But, much like the China ban or any other ban it really does not matter.
There are more then enough places to mine, and several places that are actively enticing miners to mine. Several states in the US, and countries all over the world.

The current PoW is not a weakness it's a strength. If you don't like us mining here, we will pack out crap and move and a few months later we are back where people want us.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 3542
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Excel is fun
November 13, 2021, 07:59:31 AM
#15
If they are promoting the use of renewables for a better and sustainable future, why then would the need to propose a ban for bitcoin mining? I just don't see the connection at all. If they want to size down our carbon footprint, they would also pull the trigger on other industries' direction that consume just as much (or even more) energy with the bitcoin network.

With regards to moving to a new ASIC-resistant algorithm, that area is being worked on, and some proof-of-concepts were already established, and the results are not very pretty.
legendary
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November 13, 2021, 07:48:23 AM
#14
There've been a few threads here about the Swedish proposal already, but the focus is a bit different in yours, so I guess it's fair. I don't think that mining is a weakness of Bitcoin. Firstly, as you've said, if the energy comes from renewable sources, it's not a problem. Secondly, mining has a great save: adjustment of the difficulty rate. So even if the EU or some other authority bans mining on their territory, there will always be some miners elsewhere, and so the party will continue, so to speak. As for ASIC resistance, can this truly be done for Bitcoin? And also, what will the repercussions be? People moving to mine Bitcoin on graphic cards, which are already impossible to get because people mine Ethereum on them? Also, the electricity bills will probably give miners away if mining's banned, and many simply won't risk breaking the law.
full member
Activity: 661
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November 13, 2021, 04:09:55 AM
#13
If there was not be an opportunity to mine Bitcoin any more, it would mean that Bitcoin's blockchain is locked as without miners, transactions can't be added to blockachain and as a result they can't be completed. But I don't think that all countries are likely to forbid Bitcoin mining. Even if it is widely applicable there will be countries that will still mine Bitcoin as it yields good profit to them.
hero member
Activity: 2156
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November 13, 2021, 04:07:31 AM
#12
I have read an article that the Swedish regulators are proposing a ban on cryptomining in the European Union.

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

European Union will be strong enough for the development of cryptocurrency. Many people was not doing bitcoin mining for the less profit or No profit from it. This is cause of sudden fall and rise in the price of bitcoin. If the cryptomining was end in the European union. It leads to the instability of cryptocurrency flow.Government should reconsider their decision on this.

Mining of cryptocurrency is the essential one and it maybe costlier. But some will deny to do such things.Some will ready to do occupy huge profit from it.When people inverse their money, it's good stand to earn money from it.Rather they invest in mining, they gonna a rock the future.Their current profit maybe the low.When the bitcoin rocl the party, surely they will gain double or triple of current profit.Holding of bitcoin is essential to gain huge profit from it.
newbie
Activity: 21
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November 13, 2021, 03:39:41 AM
#11
I have read an article that the Swedish regulators are proposing a ban on cryptomining in the European Union.

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.

European Union will be strong enough for the development of cryptocurrency. Many people was not doing bitcoin mining for the less profit or No profit from it. This is cause of sudden fall and rise in the price of bitcoin. If the cryptomining was end in the European union. It leads to the instability of cryptocurrency flow.Government should reconsider their decision on this.
hero member
Activity: 1946
Merit: 502
November 13, 2021, 03:37:03 AM
#10
If government want minners to be licensed to be able to fully operate legally what is the big deal there! Yeah I get the decentralise and whole lot of anonymous talk, but what can possibly happen if this is implemented?
Those who are shouting government wants to control their lives, what about people like Elon Musk and other successful businesses people all over the world, why have they survive even with this government control and regulations?
Honestly I don't think it matters much even if government implement regulations on mining or crypto, it won't stop anything.
legendary
Activity: 2870
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November 13, 2021, 03:33:46 AM
#9
If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem.
Bangladesh banned bitcoin many years ago and Japan, El Salvador, and a lot of other countries adopted bitcoin. Neither showed "weakness in bitcoin ecosystem", this one is no different.

Quote
Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.
They can't ban cryptomining, they can only ban mining farms, and only in their own jurisdiction which means miners will migrate to other places.
Keep in mind that the Europe's hashrate is not really that high specially since Europeans have high electricity costs.

Quote
I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance.

From what I've seen there is no such thing as "ASIC resistance". If anything can be mined with any kind of hardware, a more efficient hardware would be invented to mine it faster and someone will purchase large numbers of that device to have a bigger "share" of the total hashrate.


I believe OP has a point. I have said it before, the centralization, and “cartelization” of mining has become a problem, but NOT a problem WITHOUT a solution. The bans will be mere inconveniences. Plus finding the solution for “ASIC resistance” is a useless undertaking.

ASIC Resitance is nothing but a buzzword, https://medium.com/hackernoon/asic-resistance-is-nothing-but-a-blockchain-buzzword-b91d3d770366



hero member
Activity: 1400
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Bitcoin is achievement
November 13, 2021, 03:05:09 AM
#8
Many countries are rising up to attacks bitcoin development and is not today that we have started having or hearing this method of information of bitcoin been ban in a country, it's obvious that bitcoin ecosystem is becoming strong daily even though it happens in Europeans country to obstruct bitcoin mining industry due to accusations of energy consumption in her country, i believe immensely they will be another dimension to resurrect bitcoin from another format, i can see that the possibility is there for them to ban cryptomining because of the power supply or electricity tariff in their domain.
legendary
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November 13, 2021, 02:33:18 AM
#7
If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem.
Bangladesh banned bitcoin many years ago and Japan, El Salvador, and a lot of other countries adopted bitcoin. Neither showed "weakness in bitcoin ecosystem", this one is no different.

Quote
Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.
They can't ban cryptomining, they can only ban mining farms, and only in their own jurisdiction which means miners will migrate to other places.
Keep in mind that the Europe's hashrate is not really that high specially since Europeans have high electricity costs.

Quote
I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance.
From what I've seen there is no such thing as "ASIC resistance". If anything can be mined with any kind of hardware, a more efficient hardware would be invented to mine it faster and someone will purchase large numbers of that device to have a bigger "share" of the total hashrate.
hero member
Activity: 2072
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November 13, 2021, 12:27:12 AM
#6
That is a good point to discuss. I am always wondering why government is trying to stop such operations if they know very well they getting paid for the electricity bills and also getting the taxes whenever miners sell the crypto for fiat. The whole ecosystem is properly managed by self driven moves. There is no hiding of the assets as long as miners are selling it for the fiat currency and when the money is deposited in the bank accounts.

What I mean is simple, there is no illegal activities as such as long as we are mining and giving back what is government entitled for (taxes).

Moreover let us stop using the word or arguing statement that renewable energy or synthetic energy, none of that matters because there are IT giants around the world use more energy than bitcoin mining operations. Both the worlds paying what they are using so I see no point in shutting down the mining.

member
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We All Can Make It
November 12, 2021, 11:51:42 PM
#5

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.
Inasmuch that I agree with your suggestion on the development of energy efficient Bitcoin miners that can operate within homes, I don't think that will stop the government from its persistent attack on Bitcoin.

The major weakness of Bitcoin is not how it is mined but that it has a strong adversary called centralised governments that want to control every aspect of our lives.

Bitcoin has survived this attacks for years and hopefully someday the government will give up and accept that Bitcoin is a part of people's private live.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 3858
November 12, 2021, 11:35:52 PM
#4
They might (or not) do this but they try to accuse that Bitcoin mining is harmful for the Earth environment. It is kinda FUD if we know (based on data) that Bitcoin mining industry is green and sustainable enough.

From [1-3], Bitcoin mining industry uses somewhere about 70% of its energy from green & sustainable resources. Another topic to read is Debunk the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument [4] and other articles from EndtheFUD.org

[1] https://coinshares.com/research/bitcoin-mining-network-december-2019
[2] https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021.07.01-BMC-Q2-2021-Materials.pdf
[3] https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021.07.01-Mining-Council-Press-Release-Q2.pdf
[4] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/debunking-the-bitcoin-is-an-environmental-disaster-argument-5325350
legendary
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November 12, 2021, 10:54:46 PM
#3
Banning Bitcoin mining from a specific jurisdiction is really a weakness of the Bitcoin ecosystem? Bitcoin mining wouldn't depend on only a jurisdiction, what happened when China banned Bitcoin ban? Nothing, it's just an impact on Bitcoin price for a small time. But didn't affect on overall Bitcoin ecosystem. A few jurisdictions will ban and a few jurisdictions will allow. That's what ecosystem.

However, it would help to understand the real story if you share the source. Your idea of mining Bitcoin in the house wouldn't help much if the government ban it. Because you are doing then illegal activities according to the government which is punishable. Same as my country ban Bitcoin and mining, so it will be illegal to mine Bitcoin in house. If in case legal authorities notice that then it will be punishable.
legendary
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November 12, 2021, 10:37:22 PM
#2
You know an attack on Bitcoin when you see one. This is it. This is not really about making the world a better place. This is about trying to bring Bitcoin down. You see hypocrisy when you see one.

While these Nordic countries are indeed to be emulated in terms of utilizing renewable energy, they are actually making huge money out of petroleum and oil products. Look at Sweden itself, the one that is talking. One of the country's top export products is mineral fuel, giving them billions in USD.[1] Look at its neighbor, Norway, which is also popular in terms of renewable energy. The country is highly dependent on oil. It is one of the topmost oil exporters in the world.[2]

And why the ban? Could Bitcoin mining not run on renewables?

It is interesting to note that the rebut against Sweden's suggestion is coming from the country’s state-owned power generation company itself, among others. Vattenfall makes it clear that rather than a problem, Bitcoin mining could actually be of help to electricity producers in terms of providing balance of loads on electrical grids.[3]

Moreover, why not make lemonades out of lemons? That is, if these countries are truly supportive of innovation and development. These Nordic countries are cold. Why don't they try to emulate what North Vancouver is doing? This Canadian city is trying to provide heat to its residents from Bitcoin mining. Thereby, reducing the use of natural gas and decarbonizing the production of heat.[4]

The point is that this is merely looking for a way to attack Bitcoin.


[1] https://www.worldstopexports.com/swedens-top-10-exports/
[2] https://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-oil-exports-country/
[3] https://news.bitcoin.com/swedish-regulators-call-for-eu-ban-on-crypto-mining-power-company-defends-industry/
[4] https://gadgets.ndtv.com/cryptocurrency/news/cryptocurrency-bitcoin-mining-heat-north-vancouver-2022-2578990
legendary
Activity: 2856
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November 12, 2021, 09:20:39 PM
#1
I have read an article that the Swedish regulators are proposing a ban on cryptomining in the European Union.

If they ban it or regulate it, this presently shows a weakness in the bitcoin ecosystem. Anyone can argue that they might not do it because half or more of their energy sources are renewables. However, the regulators can always have the ability to ban cryptomining because it has become a business that needs regulator permits and licenses to begin operation or be approved to operate. The danger of a ban will always be there.

I reckon there should be a development and engineering team formed to research on Asic resistance. Users should be given back the ability to mine in the privacy of their own homes where the government has no right to stop them.
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