Topic: Bitcoin endangered b/c of quantum computers (Read 989 times)

It is predicted that in ten years quantum computers can reach such capacities that they will be able to break the security codes of cryptocurrencies. If earlier in these forums the question was discussed whether quantum computers will appear soon at all, now we already see their real existence, as well as the fact that their computing power continues to grow. This will certainly create a real threat to the existence of cryptocurrency in the future. Therefore, it is necessary to take measures against such a threat now, without postponing until the time when such a threat begins to approach and panic begins.

I find it interesting that this thread started 8 years ago. Even 8 years later QC development is still in its infancy. QC ain't going to be a problem for Bitcoin for a bunch of years.

I read some bullshit article yesterday claiming that QC could be breaking Bitcoin in 1 to 5 years. I commented on it telling the author that is not remotely a realistic timeline.

Eventually Bitcoin will need to take steps against QC. But there is plenty of time and there are steps to take so I don't see QC as a deep worry for Bitcoin.

I've said this in posts before, if quantum computers managed to crack bitcoin wallets, we would have a lot more to worry about than just bitcoin. This would pose a serious risk to many forms of encryption. (I say many because of quantum 'resistant' algorithms.)

Privacy and security would be at an unprecedented risk if current quantum computers had these cracking capabilities. This being said, its useless to worry about something like this happening as it would have much more serious implications than the security of your bitcoin.

a binary CPU is only 0.1ghash

just 1 asic is 110,000ghash
and bitcoin is using upto 1.72million asics per block attempt

thats
1,900,000,000,000x a binary cpu
.
other things to note is that if a algo is binary based (0bit+1bit=1bit) a quantum computer has to stay within the binary logic path from source to result. meaning because quantum has 4 gates instead of 2, the efficiency is only double the 'power'

so it would still require millions of quantum computers to 51% a block

..
quantum computers are much more efficient at vectors and 3d algo's. in simple terms binary is 2d and to do 3d stuff in binary is alot more effort, where as quantum is a heck of alot more efficient

take an example of a street map where in binary you can only go forward or right. but you want to get to a destination 1 street to the left    
                    _
                   |  |
                   0  |
               | _ _ |
it takes 8 steps.

yet in quantum which can be set for forward back left or right, it can find the route to a solution in 1 step                
                 -0

but the thing about quantum is that although it can find a solution in 1 step.. that step needs to follow the path rule from source to destination of binary. meaning if binary were to receive something that requires '1 left' binary will error out and treat it as a wrong solution because it doesnt understand and cant follow "1left".


so if a problem/algo is binary based, it limits the variability of finding alternative routes to a binary logic route.
(where efficiency is only 2x because instead of using 2bits for a 3d route a qubit can use 1qubit)
..
yes its good to have chips that have 4 gates. because 3d modelling and dna (GTAC) sequencing can be done more efficiently using NEW algo's that can understand vectors in 3d, with less bits and less computations of them arrangements.

but if a system requires binary algo path finding method. it limits quantum to binary path finding method

also. having chips of 4 gates. requires then creating operating systems and then algo's to utilise these.
and right now quantum programming is still at the 1970's server rack size systems just doing pocket calculator instructions. (solving only 1 command/problem) its not yet at the "MS DOS" era of tasking hundreds of commands, nor at the GUI/multitasking level of 'windows'

The topic of quantum computers and the possibility of their calculations is of interest to many with its ability to hack into our cryptocurrency wallets. I recently read an interesting piece of information that claims that if this happens, it won't be anytime soon. Unfortunately, I cannot link to this information.
So it says the following:

Why do you need a quantum computer to hack wallets?
Every bitcoin transaction must be “confirmed” by a network of miners before it can be added to the blockchain, a ledger of who owns what. Each transaction is assigned a cryptographic key during this confirmation process, and breaking it allows you to appropriate bitcoins. The sheer power required to perform these calculations is what keeps cryptocurrency wallets secure.

While this energy-intensive process makes code-breaking nearly impossible for conventional computers, quantum machines are expected to be orders of magnitude more powerful. What's more, several companies, including Google and IBM, are already claiming quantum supremacy, a term that refers to calculations that would take a classical computer thousands of years to complete.

What is needed for hacking?
These recent breakthroughs in quantum computing have prompted scientists to explore whether quantum computers can break the blockchain. “Once a bitcoin transaction is announced, there is a key associated with it,” explains the author of the study in a NewScientist report. “And there is a window of time during which this key is vulnerable. It varies, but usually it is from 10 minutes to an hour, a maximum of a day.”

Webber and his team calculated that it would take a quantum computer with 1.9 billion qubits to break the bitcoin code within that 10-minute window. It would take 317 million qubits to hack it in an hour, and 13 million qubits would be needed to hack it in a day. At the same time, IBM's record-breaking superconducting quantum computer has only 127 qubits. To crack the algorithm that protects bitcoin, it must be a million times larger.

What is the result?
In summary, the requirement for a large physical qubit means that bitcoin will be protected from quantum computing attacks possibly within the next ten years, the scientists note in an article published in the journal AVS Quantum Science. While this is reassuring for bitcoin holders, it also highlights the possibility that huge bitcoin fortunes could become vulnerable in the not-too-distant future.

However, IBM aims to have a 1,000-qubit quantum computing chip called Condor by 2024. And by 2029, Google plans to conquer the milestone of a million qubits. The pace of quantum computing innovation is hard to predict, but you can bet bitcoin that hackers will keep an eye on the latest developments.

More and more companies are working on the development of quantum computers IBM, Cambridge Quantum, Google, etc. and now Alphabet (most likely this company is a daughter of Google) plans to allocate developers of quantum computing Sandbox Technology to a separate company SB Technologies Inc., for which a website has already been registered sandboxquantum.com
https://www.businessinsider.com/alphabet-google-secretive-quantum-tech-group-is-preparing-spin-out-2022-1?r=MX&IR=T

Ooh very interesting article. I've always wondered in what ways specifically quantum computers would threaten bitcoin.

Sounds like as long as people don't re-use addresses they'll be fine.

But for those two million btc in the original p2pk address type it sounds like at some point maybe there should be an update that blacklists all addresses of that type, with like a couple year transition time so that for any of those coins that aren't lost people would have plenty of time to move them, and any coins that don't get moved can be considered permanently lost so blacklisting them would therefore prevent them from being stolen and dumped by the quantum thieves. As long as enough time is given to make sure anyone that has access to those coins has time to move them seems like this would be the best option. I don't think anyone wants 2 million btc dumped on the market by thieves.

Eventually though sounds like new quantum resistant cryptography will be needed if quantum computers get to the point of being able to break cryptography faster than blocktime.


Luckily though quantum computing is a threat to ALL digital security. Which all popular media articles claiming quantum computing will destroy bitcoin conveniently ignore. So when quantum resistant cryptography is available bitcoin can upgrade to it and everyone could eventually move their coins over.

This is something that I think everyone did discuss in detail ages ago when the news first came out.

Some points you have to remember now :
1. The government sites are far much easier to hack than bitcoins now they would not let anyone have that much power that they can bring down the whole country with them.
2. They won't be available in the market so easily and they would be so much expensive as well
3. If we do find a way to integrate quantum mechanics somehow in Bitcoins as well I think it might be lit tho, making it more stronger than ever but not a tech guy here thus don't know how that would work.
4. It's not just bitcoins that would have to face the probelms it's everything! That you know and use, so bitcoins should be the least of your worries right now.

I know it's been nearly 8 years since the last post in this thread, but I figured development of quantum computers has progressed in the meantime.

For anyone interested, there's an interesting article by Deloitte Netherlands that sums up the facts/issues quite nicely of how quantum computers could affect Bitcoin.

Feel free to check it out.

https://www2.deloitte.com/nl/nl/pages/innovatie/artikelen/quantum-computers-and-the-bitcoin-blockchain.html

Cheers,

curefrankosflue

I wasn't talking about post on here. I haven't even read post on here about the issue. I was basing this off of the bitcoinnotbombs blog. He blogged yesterday about this. Lets not assume. But thanks for the info

so stop making new threads and stick your idea's to the single thread. if /when quantum computing comes along, everything and anything encrypted is at risk.

the info on your credit card that is supposedly encrypted
the encryption of secure websites including your bank
governments own email system
enforcement agencies own computer systems
the list goes on.

so the banking systems holding a few trillion per country in a few places and many billions in the many many other countries are at risk more so then bitcoin which has individual "passcodes" per account. rather then 1 encryption "passcode" to secure entire bank databases

Everyone keeps discussing bitcoin being endangered bc of quantum computers but wouldnt scrypt coins be in more danger like litecoin? A quantum computer would consist of a lot of cpu/gpu power.