Bitcoin fails on all 6 objective measures

scottykarate

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Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Depending on perspective - and people in here clearly have many different perspectives - the purpose or value of Bitcoin can be different. But an objective view on that shows Bitcoin is failing on all the different purposes:

Bitcoin is a currency - no
It is failing as a currency, because a currency that dips up to Christmas when you actually want to spend some money is useless.

Bitcoin is a store of value - no
It is failing as a store of value as the extreme volatility makes it like storing water in a bucket with holes in the side

Bitcoin is a better payment tool - no
It is failing as a practical means of payment due to the extremely high transaction costs

Bitcoin is an investment asset - no
The extreme transaction times prevents any normal type of trading of an investment asset, drastically reducing market liquidity - meaning it has failed as an investment asset

Bitcoin is community driven - no
The community has clearly been shouting for something to be done in terms of the transaction costs and transaction times, but devs don't care

Bitcoin is for the poor - no
Only the rich are benefitting, with the poor now seeing their money being trapped behind a "wall" of transactions fees in excess of 100$

Could it end up as a failure? Possibly. Is it speculative? Yep. Risky? Yep. In need of an upgrade? Yep.

Apparently enough people feel it is useful enough to have futures on The Merc, CBOE, NASDAQ with E-Trade, etc, jumping in along with multiple ETF filings.

Now, could those things add more volatility, especially in the near term? Probably. Is it necessary for more acceptance? Yes.

Go argue with the pros.... enlighten them with your pearls of wisdom!

I be

SONG GEET

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Bitcoin is a currency - Yes
Many merchants are accepting bitcoin just as currency and other fiats.

Bitcoin is a store of value - yes
Look at graph, price of bitcoin has increased by many folds in last few years or even months.

Bitcoin is a better payment tool - yes
Wait for lightening network which will make transactions cheaper.

Bitcoin is an investment asset - yes
Price is volatile which make it really profitable investment asset.

Bitcoin is community driven - yes
Bitcoin is open source and supported by millions of people worldwide.

Bitcoin is for the poor - yes
If you are poor than invest in bitcoin and wait for next few years, you will get more than what you can by saving that amount in your local bank.

jonemil24

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Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Depending on perspective - and people in here clearly have many different perspectives - the purpose or value of Bitcoin can be different. But an objective view on that shows Bitcoin is failing on all the different purposes:

Bitcoin is a currency - no
It is failing as a currency, because a currency that dips up to Christmas when you actually want to spend some money is useless.

Bitcoin is a store of value - no
It is failing as a store of value as the extreme volatility makes it like storing water in a bucket with holes in the side

Bitcoin is a better payment tool - no
It is failing as a practical means of payment due to the extremely high transaction costs

Bitcoin is an investment asset - no
The extreme transaction times prevents any normal type of trading of an investment asset, drastically reducing market liquidity - meaning it has failed as an investment asset

Bitcoin is community driven - no
The community has clearly been shouting for something to be done in terms of the transaction costs and transaction times, but devs don't care

Bitcoin is for the poor - no
Only the rich are benefitting, with the poor now seeing their money being trapped behind a "wall" of transactions fees in excess of 100$

I somehow believe in your statement, but there are corrections I need to make in my own opinion.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is a currency - no
It is failing as a currency, because a currency that dips up to Christmas when you actually want to spend some money is useless.

I see it as a store of value for now. The reason for my opinion is; it's true that it's extremely volatile but compared to gold, bitcoin is much more environment friendly. You don't have to ruin a single piece of land in order to mine it, you just keep on consuming electricity, and the transfer of gold to another place is not easy unlike bitcoin where it's much convenient to transact to other users.

It's true that gold has made its own reputation on the market, but gold is not easy to buy and sell, you need papers in order to have it. Gold is centralized that's why it never loses value, unlike bitcoin that no single authority could dictate its price. You can try to buy gold on an ETF (Exchange Trade Fund), but; as the ETF owner, you do not have (and are not entitled to) physical custody of the gold itself, unlike in bitcoin where you can physically or should I say digitally, have it.

We're in a new age of civilization wherein things must evolve and a new store of value must have its own place in the digital world.

nc50lc

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Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is community driven - no
The community has clearly been shouting for something to be done in terms of the transaction costs and transaction times, but devs don't care

Yes they care, updates are not that frequent as the "community" wanted.
You don't want to have an update with bugs and exploits don't you?
When you say community, it means everyone including the devs.

Quote from: freightjoe

Bitcoin is for the poor - no
Only the rich are benefitting, with the poor now seeing their money being trapped behind a "wall" of transactions fees in excess of 100$

Nope, the intelligent ones are benefiting. Bitcoin is for all.
Based on your "transaction-based" equity: If you're rich or poor, you have paid 10$ for a 40$ transaction.
Not for the poor? Too much or not that much, you paid the same fee.
You said, bitcoin failed as a currency, then why is it being used as currency by some?
Those problems are conflicting with each other, that's why.

There was no purpose on everything, it just happened to be useful to the observer.

Indrawan77

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There are something that I not agree, bitcoin is a currency you can used it to purchased some things in the store and a lot of things in Japan, and bitcoin is a great payment tool, the high transaction cost that happen is because bitcoin price rise high, but bitcoin is very convenient to use, especially for worldwide transaction, and it's not only for the poor, they can invest in fraction, the rest of the statement I agree with you

jseverson

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Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is a store of value - no
It is failing as a store of value as the extreme volatility makes it like storing water in a bucket with holes in the side

You conveniently forgot to mention that volatility works both ways. It has increased more than 1500% for the year. Bucket with holes on the side, with a massive faucet refilling it.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is an investment asset - no
The extreme transaction times prevents any normal type of trading of an investment asset, drastically reducing market liquidity - meaning it has failed as an investment asset

'Investing' in Bitcoin typically involves nothing more than HODLing it, so transaction times isn't such a big factor. It's a fact that pretty much everyone has been able to multiply their initial investment.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is community driven - no
The community has clearly been shouting for something to be done in terms of the transaction costs and transaction times, but devs don't care

They're prioritizing the Segwit GUI for core. That counts for something.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is for the poor - no
Only the rich are benefitting, with the poor now seeing their money being trapped behind a "wall" of transactions fees in excess of 100$

Bitcoin isn't for the poor. It's for everyone. $100 is exaggerated. It's true the fees are ridiculous right now but things are slowly getting back to normal, with the backlog starting to clear up.

I kind of agree with everything else, but I trust that the issues will be resolved. Bitcoin is still in its infancy in the grand scheme of things.

h0lybyte

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Your statement is mostly out of exact meaning of bitcoin, however i agree on the point that states bitcoin's extreme transaction time. The delaying prevents traders from putting their investments in the market at right time due to not being able to pay sufficient fee. Miners have set crazy fee even on lower amounts. I wish the current fee structure may change in future for betterment of bitcoin

markleal

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Hi there freightjoe! Let me answer your points one by one because in some point you are correct but mostly some of your answer or reason is not quite true, maybe you just skipped reading some articles.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is a store of value - no

If it can’t store value why do it have a value more than a dollar? Because more people saw a great value on it.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is a better payment tool - no

It depends on the situation, dealing online and to a company or person that accept bitcoin is more transparent than fiat. It’s payment ledger is accessible, so you have a concrete proof of payment.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is an investment asset - no

Nope! Maybe you have to purchase a bitcoin and see the interest it occurs versus your bank interest rate.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is community driven - no

Big no! why? You are even one of the member of the millions of people that visit and read articles about bitcoin. Lol

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Bitcoin is for the poor - no

Nah! Bitcoin should be for the poor, so someday their alms could be ten times bigger and could provide them necessary things to live. Wink

Red-Apple

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if bitcoin had really failed and if you really believed it, then you wouldn't have even been here on a bitcoin forum talking about it nonstop and only whenever there is a drop Grin

there are other projects, the shitcoins that have failed miserably and have forums. why aren't you there talking about how they have failed? that is right because you do not own any of them and are not trying to short any of them Wink

coin-investor

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You have a good point although some of it is not true it is a store of value for me because I made a lot here since I started trading Bitcoin when it was $600 but although some of your assessment are true still people are investing in bitcoin because of the promised income big fish are preaching for small fish to buy.

freightjoe

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Quote from: Tim2412 on December 22, 2017, 06:34:19 AM

Bitcoin is a currency Yes ( you can use bitcoin to buy and sell smth, it is usual now

No it most certainly is not. That you can find a few small places that will accept BTC as payment does not make it a currency. I can also find a beach bar which accepts payment in nice seashells, but that does not prove that seashells is a currency. Without large-scale universal acceptance and adoption it is not a currency.

Quote from: Tim2412 on December 22, 2017, 06:34:19 AM

Bitcoin is an investment asset yes, why not, I invested in may and now my profit x8

Again wrong. Buying something and simply holding onto it seeing its paper-value increase is not an investment object. You need the ability to effectively buy and sell - and as we have seen in recent days that is now extremely difficult due to the long confirmation times.

Quote from: Tim2412 on December 22, 2017, 06:34:19 AM

Bitcoin is community driven - yes, just check how many members only on this forum

Don't make me laugh. The members on this forum has been shouting for something to be done to fix the problem with transaction times and high fees, but nothing is being done. The community is not being involved.

Quote from: Tim2412 on December 22, 2017, 06:34:19 AM

Bitcoin is for the poor -bitcoin for all

Again, just look in this forum. People with small amounts of money and investments are now facing 60-80$ fees to get their 100$ "investment" out. Only the rich benefits in this system.

Xavofat

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Did you see that ludicrous display last night?

A couple of these are incorrect:

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

The extreme transaction times prevents any normal type of trading of an investment asset, drastically reducing market liquidity

The liquidity has increased very dramatically over the last few months.

Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

The community has clearly been shouting for something to be done in terms of the transaction costs and transaction times, but devs don't care

If the community are unsatisfied with Bitcoin Core, they can run a different client. If they decide to alter the consensus rules they will be incompatible with other Bitcoin clients, but they still have that freedom and consensus can theoretically be achieved.

Tim2412

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Quote from: freightjoe on December 22, 2017, 05:27:53 AM

Depending on perspective - and people in here clearly have many different perspectives - the purpose or value of Bitcoin can be different. But an objective view on that shows Bitcoin is failing on all the different purposes:

Bitcoin is a currency - no
It is failing as a currency, because a currency that dips up to Christmas when you actually want to spend some money is useless.

Bitcoin is a store of value - no
It is failing as a store of value as the extreme volatility makes it like storing water in a bucket with holes in the side

Bitcoin is a better payment tool - no
It is failing as a practical means of payment due to the extremely high transaction costs

Bitcoin is an investment asset - no
The extreme transaction times prevents any normal type of trading of an investment asset, drastically reducing market liquidity - meaning it has failed as an investment asset

Bitcoin is community driven - no
The community has clearly been shouting for something to be done in terms of the transaction costs and transaction times, but devs don't care

Bitcoin is for the poor - no
Only the rich are benefitting, with the poor now seeing their money being trapped behind a "wall" of transactions fees in excess of 100$

Dont agree

Bitcoin is a currency Yes ( you can use bitcoin to buy and sell smth, it is usual now)
Bitcoin is a store of value Agree with you
Bitcoin is a better payment tool Agree with you
Bitcoin is an investment asset yes, why not, I invested in may and now my profit x8
Bitcoin is community driven - yes, just check how many members only on this forum
Bitcoin is for the poor -bitcoin for all

freightjoe

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Depending on perspective - and people in here clearly have many different perspectives - the purpose or value of Bitcoin can be different. But an objective view on that shows Bitcoin is failing on all the different purposes:

Bitcoin is a currency - no
It is failing as a currency, because a currency that dips up to Christmas when you actually want to spend some money is useless.

Bitcoin is a store of value - no
It is failing as a store of value as the extreme volatility makes it like storing water in a bucket with holes in the side

Bitcoin is a better payment tool - no
It is failing as a practical means of payment due to the extremely high transaction costs

Bitcoin is an investment asset - no
The extreme transaction times prevents any normal type of trading of an investment asset, drastically reducing market liquidity - meaning it has failed as an investment asset

Bitcoin is community driven - no
The community has clearly been shouting for something to be done in terms of the transaction costs and transaction times, but devs don't care

Bitcoin is for the poor - no
Only the rich are benefitting, with the poor now seeing their money being trapped behind a "wall" of transactions fees in excess of 100$

Topic: Bitcoin fails on all 6 objective measures (Read 149 times)