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Topic: Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go? - page 10. (Read 15421 times)

sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 250

I don't think the part of tomothy's question in bold is answered properly.

So, part of your mission is "Fostering Core Development", but you won't outright support Core on their approach for the block size debate? How can this be?

Do you plan to support the other teams like XT or BU then?

And "Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation"... what does that mean? Is he no longer chief scientist?

To put it another way: If someone supports The Bitcoin Foundation in any way, what are they supporting?


Best Regards


Oh, and thanks to tomothy for bringing something meaningful into this.

This is a draft mission statement,  the specific reason it is listed as a draft and out for comment is to answer questions like this.

My thought is that, since we have members like Gavin, Garzik, Peter Todd and companies from various sides of the discussion that working to be neutral and improve communication and consensus is valuable.   If you think the foundation should take a solid stand on the blocksize debate, then that is very worthy of discussion.  It's up to the members to convey this to the board and the board to determine how they best represent those members.

Yes, Gavin is still Chief Scientist, he is not paid, he is a volunteer just like all other roles (save two part time admin roles)
sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 250
Gavin Andresen, Wladimir van der Laan, and Cory Fields all joined the MIT media lab in April. I just assume that's who pays them?

https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/welcome-to-the-mit-media-lab-gavin-wlad-and-cory-977ae418c084#.k43lwgi8h

Yes, as far as I know
sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1520
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
Your LinkenIn profile says this:

Managing Director, Chief Investment Officer
Atlantic Financial Inc.
December 1994 – Present (21 years 2 months)

Are you still Managing Director?

Yes

https://youtu.be/YbzNJr26H-4

 Grin
sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 250
Your LinkenIn profile says this:

Managing Director, Chief Investment Officer
Atlantic Financial Inc.
December 1994 – Present (21 years 2 months)

Are you still Managing Director?

Yes
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
Gavin Andresen, Wladimir van der Laan, and Cory Fields all joined the MIT media lab in April. I just assume that's who pays them?

https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/welcome-to-the-mit-media-lab-gavin-wlad-and-cory-977ae418c084#.k43lwgi8h
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

To put it in a very different way:

Warning: TROLL POST

This is to all you GTA 3 fans out there!!!

Lazlow: "Let's go over here to line 4, hello caller, what's your name?"
Jeff: "Jeff from Rockford."
Lazlow: "Hello Jeff, what's up?"
Jeff: "I want to tell you and your listeners about a once-in-a-lifetime
      chance to make a difference. There's a rally tomorrow evening at
      the park. Starting at 7. Although we'll be painting banners and
      singing songs and all day to prepare for it. Then, when tens-of-
      thousands have gathered in the park, we're gonna march onto Town
      Hall. Lazlow, the people have spoken! And they have said 'no, not
      in my town!' So folks, if you're listening, and want to make a
      difference, get yourself down to the park, and prepare to bring
      democracy back to the people."
Lazlow: "So...what's this rally about, Jeff?"
Jeff: "It's about people standing up and being counted. It's about the
      future. It's about telling those morons in the suits 'no thanks!
      Not in my town! Not while I have a breath in my body and hope in
      my soul! I will not, I cannot let this pass!'"
Lazlow: "Let what pass?"
Jeff: "It's about grabbing the town by the balls and saying 'listen son,
      either put-up, or shut up! No more Mr. Nice-guy. No more easy
      solutions for difficult problems!' It's about what it means to be
      an American. It's about giving something back."
Lazlow: "Giving what back, Jeff?"
Jeff: "Hope! Dreams! Belief!"
Lazlow: "Belief in what, I mean, look Jeff, I..I admire your passion,
        really I do, but...what will people be marching for? Wh..what's
        your rally about!?"
Jeff: "It's about justice, Mr. Low! A chance to shine and make a   
      difference! About thousands of people walking side-by-side as
      brother marchers. Only one thing on their minds - the chance to
      make a difference! Bring your friends! Nothing shows a man how
      much you mean to him more than the chance to walk together for
      justice! Bring your kids! They can paint signs, and we'll even
      have a face-painter, and a vegen bar-be-que. Bring your parents,
      dude, even the elderly care about tomorrow!"
Lazlow: "I understand that, it sounds like a great rally, but w..we're
        not a political station and you haven't really told us why
        people should do this...what is it about?!?"
Jeff: "Look..look, do you wanna help or not??"
Lazlow: "I don't know what I'm helping!"
Jeff: "You're helping America! What kind of patriot are you? It's a
      rally!!"
Lazlow: "You don't know what it's for, do you!?!"
Jeff: "It's for hope. Please come, everybody! It'll be real good!"
Lazlow: "Alright, you fight the power, brother!"
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

(Edit: Necessary edit to include unfounded slurs and allegations about liars and thieves and how bitcoin is ponzi, Is psost o.k now spelng errers tooo?)

Well there really isn't any money left.  When I came aboard there was less than $70k and still plenty of outstanding obligations on the books.

Yes, that mission is the main priority.

Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation.

We've tried to remain neutral on the block size debate in an effort to represent all members -- for example I worked very hard to get Greg Maxwell to speak at DevCore so that there would be a mix of opinions on blocksize.

I think DevCore is a great conference.

I don't think the part of tomothy's question in bold is answered properly.

So, part of your mission is "Fostering Core Development", but you won't outright support Core on their approach for the block size debate? How can this be?

Do you plan to support the other teams like XT or BU then?

And "Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation"... what does that mean? Is he no longer chief scientist?

To put it another way: If someone supports The Bitcoin Foundation in any way, what are they supporting?


Best Regards


Oh, and thanks to tomothy for bringing something meaningful into this.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
I admit that I’ve always been a little skeptical of Bruce Fenton's work history claims.  Different firms with limited web presence and no specific deals listed anywhere.  Poorly crafted main website that also doesn't list any employees or specific deals done:  http://www.atlanticfinancial.com/

So I did a little more digging, it does seem at a minimum that there is some puffery in his bio and some misstatements in some comments he made as part of his running for Director of the Foundation.  I’ll go through my research in the order it occurred, as some of the conclusions evolved through the process, and am trying to be neutral.  Also, I note that all the info linked is either information Bruce has published, or is publically available info by virtue of his business activities.

First, take a look at his linkedin page:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucefenton  Give it a read, looks pretty impressive.

And then go to this link which shows the form ADV for his current firm, Atlantic Financial.  On the left, there is link for "view all in PDF."  http://www.adviserinfo.sec.gov/iapd/content/viewform/adv/Sections/iapd_AdvRegulatorStatusSection.aspx?ORG_PK=159167&RGLTR_PK=50030&STATE_CD=MA&FLNG_PK=00AFF2940008017C01A413100562A635056C8CC0

So let us start at Item 5 - employees.  He has only one listed, himself.  This seems a bit at odds with his claim on linkedin that "Atlantic Financial is a full service investment and wealth management company founded in 1994 and was the first full service investment firm on the Internet."

Now lets go to 5.D.  5.D.1. shows his client allocation by % of clients.  But then in 5.D.2 it shows "approximate amount of your regulatory assets under management (reported in Item 5.F. below) attributable to each of the following type of client."  Bruce checks "None" for every single category.

Now on 5.G, type of services he provides, he checked the box for "financial planning services" and "portfolio management."  So maybe the reason for the "none" above is that his business is more about "financial planning services" than "portfolio management."  But, it appears no, as 5.H says he provided planning services to 0 clients in the past year.

Note that his linkedin says he:  "- personally placed or sourced over $5 billion in investments during career" and "- created and managed $500 million in-house investment services group for 100 year old law firm.”

Now let’s look at Item 6, "Other Business Activities."  He lists none.  But his linkedin page notes that he is also a managing director of Boston Gulf Advisors.  Incidentally, the facebook page for Boston Gulf Advisors is here:  https://www.facebook.com/BostonGulfAdvisorsGroup/  It lists the company website as http://bostongulfconsulting.com/  When I click that link, I get "Error establishing a database connection."

There is more we could do here, but lets take a detour.  Go back to the main page and look on the left for "Brochures."  Click ADV Form 2B.  Scroll down to "Education."  Yes, he lists a BA from Bentley University, as with linkedin.  But unlike on linkedin, here he lists a graduation date of 2006, well after his first financial job as a VP at Morgan Stanley in 1992.  So not on outright misstatement, but a little obfuscation.  And, if he had been in the investment banking group at Morgan Stanley, there is no way he would get hired without a college degree and make VP in two years.  But the investment advisor group could be different.

Next, look at "Business Background."  His Atlantic Financial experience here begins 9/2011, versus linkedin where his experience for that firm is: "December 1994 – Present (21 years 2 months)".

He also doesn't list Morgan Stanley, Boston Gulf, or any other experience from his linkedin page.  But he does list "03/1998 – 09/2011 Registered Representative Cantella & Co. Inc."

Now, my first reaction was that this was a pretty huge lie, but on digging around more on Cantella and Bruce Fenton and from what I know of the financial advisor / broker dealer space, it seems like it is possible that while technically being a registered rep at Cantella, he could still market himself as Atlantic Financial.  For example, see this link:  http://209.132.84.78/investing/fidelity-advisor-worst-days-followed-by-gains.pdf

Although looking at his Finra history, Cantella is expressly listed as his employer:  http://brokercheck.finra.org/Report/Download/40521359 (if direct link does not work, enter 2286983 in the spot where it asks for name or CRD number.)  And, again to try and be balanced, it also shows he was previously registered at Dean Witter Reynolds around the same time as his Linkedin profile claims he was a VP at Morgan Stanley.  Dean Witter was a retail brokerage that merged with Morgan Stanley, a more prestigious and international full service investment bank.  But that merger occurred well after Bruce was there, in 1997.  So more puffery in trying to use what I view as a more prestigious name.  Also, it is still odd the dates don’t match exactly, and that he is listed as having been registered with two other firms that appear nowhere on his linkedin bio.

This is why I say there is definitely some puffery in his bio.  In my mind, there is a big difference in being a financial advisor “representative” affiliated with various firms over the years, going from being a young VP at Morgan Stanley to founding a global “full service investment and wealth management company founded in 1994 [that] was the first full service investment firm on the Internet.”

It also raises the question of why he left Cantella relationship.  And it now appears that the reason for the form ADV listing zero amounts is that he must have left that relationship, to finally create his own advisory firm that needed to be individually registered.  Those amounts may be zero because he was unable to bring clients over, or was not able to until he got registered.
 
Interstingly, that same Finra link lists several "Disclosure Events", all of which seem to be in the category of: "Financial".  If you go to the full report, they appear to involve 3 instances of renegotiating debt with credit card companies.  In the most recent, he managed to settle an amount due of $35,000 to Citibank for $6,100 in June of 2011.  Interestingly, that is around the time he left Cantella (September 2011.) 

Note that in his Reddit election AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2qqsnh/hi_reddit_rbitcoin_im_bruce_fenton_running_for/cn8s80f) he noted:  "the only disclosable event on my FINRA U4 license is that I renegotiated about $20k in credit card debt in around 2006 I believe -- I actually dont think this was required to be disclosed as a material financial event but my compliance officer at the time encouraged me to do so to be sure."  And the other two events that were listed on the Finra form were both in 2010.  So he was off on the amount, the date, and the number of disclosures.
 
So the Reddit comment is an outright lie, and it does make you wonder why a successful money manager needed to renegotiate credit card debt in the two years before he left his employer of more than 12 years.
 
And to give him credit, that same report mentions in "Other Business Activities" his involvement with FDVT, advising private industry and governments on various things, and that he is a consultant for Bain Capital for activities related to the Middle East, where he is compensated on a flat fee basis.  But we still have no proof that he "placed or sourced" $5 billion of investments over his career.
 
So that is the current summary.  I’ve tried to be neutral, and am open to any response from Bruce or others on this booard.  But I have to also say that at a minimum, the puffery and misstatements in his background, as well as his combative attitude on this board, don’t make me that optimistic that the Bitcoin Foundation is in much better hands.
sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 250
Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

(Edit: Necessary edit to include unfounded slurs and allegations about liars and thieves and how bitcoin is ponzi, Is psost o.k now spelng errers tooo?)

Well there really isn't any money left.  When I came aboard there was less than $70k and still plenty of outstanding obligations on the books.

Yes, that mission is the main priority.

Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation.

We've tried to remain neutral on the block size debate in an effort to represent all members -- for example I worked very hard to get Greg Maxwell to speak at DevCore so that there would be a mix of opinions on blocksize.

I think DevCore is a great conference.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116

As I've mentioned, ThePolicyCounsil.com was never a working website (was even for sale in 2014, as I've depicted) nor can I find incorp docs of ThePolicyCounsil.com INC which was paid the aforementioned amount.


Again, no idea what you are accusing.

Is the accusation that Jim didn't have a website?  That he was paid as reported?  Do you think he was paid differently than what was reported?  What?  I said I'm glad to seek justice for any illegal act....but I don't even see what you are accusing.

Try the format:

I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

I accuse you and Brock Pierce of mincing about with the dead body of The Bitcoin Foundation a la Weekend at Bernie's. There, I said it.


Oh, fuck! Dude played the Weekend at Bernie's Card. Now you got Bruce reevaluating his card holdings in hope of trumping your unexpected play. This could get interesting.


vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145

To be fair with you, bud, I did read the rest of your post and found most your questions to stem from a sound mind oppose to what I spew because I'm mentally unnnnnnstable special.  Wink
sr. member
Activity: 258
Merit: 250
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

I quit reading at the last highlighted text so to relay to the community that finally a trustworthy Bitcoiner has join this thread.

THIS POST IS SATIRE!
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
6 pages and no reply to what I thought to be a decent curiosity? Well done Bitcoinpro and Gleb Gamow!

Well done to you BruceFenton too! Excellent PR for this forum Smiley

vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145


So that my satire in the post doesn't freak out Bruce, it's most likely an unexplained glitched of sorts, to be far.


You are talking gibberish again.  You seem to be just searching for my name and posting random nonsense.

 No earthly idea what the screenshot and cryptic text posted with it means, because you don't say.

No idea what you are accusing Harper of.

In this entire time wasting endeavor I don't see a single actual specific issue listed with something I've done that you have an issue with.

Is this your first post after your morning coffee?
sr. member
Activity: 258
Merit: 250
Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

(Edit: Necessary edit to include unfounded slurs and allegations about liars and thieves and how bitcoin is ponzi, Is psost o.k now spelng errers tooo?)
sr. member
Activity: 404
Merit: 250


So that my satire in the post doesn't freak out Bruce, it's most likely an unexplained glitched of sorts, to be far.


You are talking gibberish again.  You seem to be just searching for my name and posting random nonsense.

 No earthly idea what the screenshot and cryptic text posted with it means, because you don't say.

No idea what you are accusing Harper of.

In this entire time wasting endeavor I don't see a single actual specific issue listed with something I've done that you have an issue with.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
bruno i know we all love the satire and comedy personality of 'gleb' when it comes to pointing out inconsistancies of the past and scams, etc.

but can you put your phineas gage hat on and answer this

Gleb, if you had been handed the title of CEO, Exec director, chairman .. whatever glorified name badge gives you the control to do what you want.. how would you set out to do something for the future of an organization thats purpose is to help the bitcoin community.. totally ignoring the past
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
http://web.archive.org/web/20071109010915/http://fleetwoodvideo.com/contact.html



I guess on Fantasy Island, if Marshall Long can say that he was mining bitcoins in 2009, I guess Bruce Fenton can accept them in 2007 as payment for military grade cameras. Follow the link above if you don't believe the image. I sure the hell would if presented with such. Afterwards, mail me your explanations to an address I lived at in 1978 so I can get up to speed.

https://www.wealthminder.com/financial-advisors/advisory-firms/af-asset-management/23004?pageNum=1

http://www.spoke.com/companies/atlantic-financial-3e122f809e597c100340cbfd

http://posts.same.org/JEETCE2007/presentations/3.1Golden.pdf

In re. the three links above, is the USAF somehow connected with Bitcoin?

As some stage they had a pilot program where they where exploring

Bitcoin payment gateways the story was dated around 2013 i think

So that my satire in the post doesn't freak out Bruce, it's most likely an unexplained glitched of sorts, to be far.
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