Bitcoin from Electrum Wallet to Kraken lost

HCP

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Quote from: ranochigo on August 28, 2021, 08:45:28 AM

The problem would've been solved if OP would search up on what "local" means and what the expected behavior should be.

Isn't that exactly what they did? They came here and asked a question about it. Tongue

Granted, Google would probably have been faster, but as a new user, it often is not immediately apparent what the actual problem is, so it's hard to search for answers.

For instance, how is a new user who has never used Electrum meant to know that it shouldn't say "local"? Huh

How are they to know that this isn't the "normal" result for creating a transaction? Huh

Quote from: nc50lc on August 28, 2021, 10:58:27 PM

Problems like those occur when newbies enable "Advanced preview" (Tools->Preference->'Transactions' tab) or clicked "advanced" instead of send;
the setting is disabled by default and it's for, uh, Advanced users Tongue

This is actually a fairly valid point. I appreciate that the Devs try their best to make the application as simple as possible whilst also providing advanced functionality for those that need/want it... the issue is people who try to run before they can walk Undecided

nc50lc

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Quote from: hugeblack on August 28, 2021, 10:46:29 AM

Quote from: Pmalek on August 28, 2021, 05:18:46 AM

A lot of confusion could be avoided if Electrum didn't display transaction IDs for unconfirmed transactions that are saved locally. Or at least if there was an option in the settings to display/hide them.

A small alert would suffice, although I think it would be better if the wallet had an option for beginners and another for professionals as new people joining this technology have zero computer knowledge so everything seems complicated.

But Electrum is very newbie friendly in terms of sending transactions.
After clicking "Pay...", the user will only have to click "Send" and the wallet will do the signing and broadcast automatically.

Problems like those occur when newbies enable "Advanced preview" (Tools->Preference->'Transactions' tab) or clicked "advanced" instead of send;
the setting is disabled by default and it's for, uh, Advanced users :P

ranochigo

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Quote from: DireWolfM14 on August 28, 2021, 02:23:59 PM

I like the option to save local transactions, but Electrum could arrange the buttons in more descriptive way. The Save and the Broadcast buttons are spaced far apart on the Advanced tab, I could see that leading to confusion. If the buttons were closer one would see the the Broadcast button go from gray to live once the Save button was selected.

Another Button could be added to "Save and Broadcast," that would at least save a click and help prevent repetitive stress injuries. Tongue

The broadcast button is only clickable when you sign. If you don't sign it then saving it wouldn't result in it being clickable.

You don't have to save any transactions. Saving transactions are only for situations where you don't want to send the transactions or you are unable to do so. Sign and Broadcast are beside each other and broadcasting it also entails it being stored within your data files. No further action should be required and no RSI either Tongue

DireWolfM14

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Quote from: Pmalek on August 28, 2021, 01:52:13 PM

Quote from: hugeblack on August 28, 2021, 10:46:29 AM

A small alert would suffice, although I think it would be better if the wallet had an option for beginners and another for professionals as new people joining this technology have zero computer knowledge so everything seems complicated.

Even if they have computer knowledge and have worked with other software, they could be confused with the difference between "broadcast" and "save". Electrum gives you options to broadcast or save your transactions. If you are doing some work in Word or Photoshop, you save your work and you close the program. If you construct a transaction in Electrum and you save > exit the app, you haven't sent/broadcasted it. But like I mentioned before, the amount disappears from your total wallet balance and you are given a hash. But like ranochigo said, it's their responsibility to familiarize themselves with both Bitcoin and Electrum.

I like the option to save local transactions, but Electrum could arrange the buttons in more descriptive way. The Save and the Broadcast buttons are spaced far apart on the Advanced tab, I could see that leading to confusion. If the buttons were closer one would see the the Broadcast button go from gray to live once the Save button was selected.

Another Button could be added to "Save and Broadcast," that would at least save a click and help prevent repetitive stress injuries. Tongue

Pmalek

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Quote from: hugeblack on August 28, 2021, 10:46:29 AM

A small alert would suffice, although I think it would be better if the wallet had an option for beginners and another for professionals as new people joining this technology have zero computer knowledge so everything seems complicated.

Even if they have computer knowledge and have worked with other software, they could be confused with the difference between "broadcast" and "save". Electrum gives you options to broadcast or save your transactions. If you are doing some work in Word or Photoshop, you save your work and you close the program. If you construct a transaction in Electrum and you save > exit the app, you haven't sent/broadcasted it. But like I mentioned before, the amount disappears from your total wallet balance and you are given a hash. But like ranochigo said, it's their responsibility to familiarize themselves with both Bitcoin and Electrum.

hugeblack

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Quote from: Pmalek on August 28, 2021, 05:18:46 AM

A lot of confusion could be avoided if Electrum didn't display transaction IDs for unconfirmed transactions that are saved locally. Or at least if there was an option in the settings to display/hide them.

A small alert would suffice, although I think it would be better if the wallet had an option for beginners and another for professionals as new people joining this technology have zero computer knowledge so everything seems complicated.

to @op I do not recommend you to use Robinhood if you want to trade or speculate with your Bitcoin, there are many complaints made by individuals about the difficulty of making withdrawals and/or banned accounts.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Pmalek on August 28, 2021, 05:18:46 AM

A lot of confusion could be avoided if Electrum didn't display transaction IDs for unconfirmed transactions that are saved locally. Or at least if there was an option in the settings to display/hide them. I understand how someone new to Bitcoin would be confused by this. He saved the transaction, the balance was deducted, he has a transaction ID, but nothing was sent because it was never broadcasted (due to a fault of his own but still).

I believe that having a "local" transaction is evident enough for most people to understand that it was never broadcast. There is no confusion associated with this, and any confusion as a result of this is solely due to the user's poor understanding of how Bitcoin/Electrum works and trying to overcomplicate the UI doesn't fix anything but only serves to create more problems. If a transaction is signed, then the TXID will appear as it should. The problem would've been solved if OP would search up on what "local" means and what the expected behavior should be.

Pmalek

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Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

A lot of confusion could be avoided if Electrum didn't display transaction IDs for unconfirmed transactions that are saved locally. Or at least if there was an option in the settings to display/hide them. I understand how someone new to Bitcoin would be confused by this. He saved the transaction, the balance was deducted, he has a transaction ID, but nothing was sent because it was never broadcasted (due to a fault of his own but still).

DireWolfM14

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Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 07:20:26 PM

As for my comment about elevating my view about it all, perhaps I had some preconceptions based on prior bad experiences with forums.

Well, this forum has 99 problems but helping newbies figure out issues with Bitcoin transactions isn't one of them. Cheesy

I agree with nc50lc's prognosis. My suspicion is you created a transaction, but didn't broadcast it. The transaction was logged by your wallet, but didn't communicate the transaction with the blockchain. That's why your backup wallet had no record of the transaction, it was only stored locally in the main wallet. As soon as one wallet broadcasts the transaction all your other copies of that wallet will be updated the next time you synchronize them with the blockchain.

I'm glad to hear your issue was resolved, and I'm glad you find this forum helpful.

The Cryptovator

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Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 07:20:26 PM

Again, thanks for all of the assist and advice. I'll have to look deeper into how to move bitcoins before I attempt anything again.

Good to hear the fund hasn't gone and you discovered it in your wallet. Just curious, have you been using the latest version of Electrum wallet? If not then please use the latest version from the original website www.electrum.org. the latest release is Electrum-4.1.5.

However, just learn better how should you move the funds from Electrum and make sure during copy-paste wallet address. Sometimes attackers hack the clipboard to hack the wallet. If still you are getting problems please share with the community before happening any incident.

nc50lc

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Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 05:54:12 PM

-snip-
New information : I just checked my wallet again using a backup wallet file - and it shows that the bitcoins are in there ... so ... yeah. I guess ... problem sorted? I do appreciate the help, though. Just the fact that people replied has elevated my view of the user base on bitcoins. Apparently, during the transaction, it created a backup file that was not being shown to me. Loading up the backup wallet file, the bitcoins are shown. Go figure.

You must have a "local transaction" in your current Electrum wallet, it's either a non-broadcast(ed) transaction or dropped from mempools.
Refer to HCP's post for the icon in the history tab, it has a "blue computer" logo.

The issue was, Electrum is also computing the local transactions into your wallet's total balance but since it's not technically "sent",
your wallet backup which doesn't have that local transaction saved, still shows the correct balance.
The actual solution is (only if your backup is missing the latest labels, etc.): Just right-click on the local transaction, then select "Remove"; and the balance should update.

yellowmane

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Well - the odd thing happening could be up to me channeling my inner Jerry Lewis about how to do things. It wouldn't be the first time. As for my comment about elevating my view about it all, perhaps I had some preconceptions based on prior bad experiences with forums. That statement was meant as my saying I'm an idiot for such preconceptions. Anyway, please ignore my ramblings.

Again, thanks for all of the assist and advice. I'll have to look deeper into how to move bitcoins before I attempt anything again.

HCP

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Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 05:54:12 PM

New information : I just checked my wallet again using a backup wallet file - and it shows that the bitcoins are in there ... so ... yeah. I guess ... problem sorted?

I guess the end result is that you seem to have "found" the missing coins. My suspicion is that the first transaction you attempted to send was either saved as a local transaction and not broadcast... or your Electrum was not connected/synced correctly.

I guess it doesn't really matter at this point, but if you do have any more issues... feel free to post again. Note, if it is an Electrum specific issue, you should post in the "Electrum" sub-board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=98.0

Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 05:54:12 PM

Apparently, during the transaction, it created a backup file that was not being shown to me. Loading up the backup wallet file, the bitcoins are shown. Go figure.

Electrum doesn't create backup wallet files unless you explicitly tell it to do so... something odd is happening if you are getting extra wallet files created without you actually creating them on purpose.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 05:54:12 PM

Alright. I apologize for any confusion. So ... starting off, I have a wallet using Electrum. I attempted to transfer bitcoins over to my Kraken account. They never arrived. The wallet said the transaction was completed but it never arrived at the Kraken account.

New information : I just checked my wallet again using a backup wallet file - and it shows that the bitcoins are in there ... so ... yeah. I guess ... problem sorted? I do appreciate the help, though. Just the fact that people replied has elevated my view of the user base on bitcoins.

Again, thanks for the responses! Cheesy

I'm glad that the "problem" (if there was a problem in the first place) got itself sorted out. Out of curiosity, when you say:

Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 05:54:12 PM

(snip) Just the fact that people replied has elevated my view of the user base on bitcoins.

What do you mean by that? What were you expecting to find when you posted your issue?

yellowmane

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Alright. I apologize for any confusion. So ... starting off, I have a wallet using Electrum. I attempted to transfer bitcoins over to my Kraken account. They never arrived. The wallet said the transaction was completed but it never arrived at the Kraken account.

New information : I just checked my wallet again using a backup wallet file - and it shows that the bitcoins are in there ... so ... yeah. I guess ... problem sorted? I do appreciate the help, though. Just the fact that people replied has elevated my view of the user base on bitcoins. Apparently, during the transaction, it created a backup file that was not being shown to me. Loading up the backup wallet file, the bitcoins are shown. Go figure.

Again, thanks for the responses! Cheesy

HCP

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In Electrum, on the history tab... what is the icon next to the transaction displayed as? Is it a green tick, some gears, a clock or a computer?

Green Tick:

Gears:

Clock:

Computer:

Also, is the "network" icon in the bottom right corner of the Electrum window a green dot, a red dot or some blue arrows?

RickDeckard

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Your thread is a bit confusing (at least to me) - Reading your thread made me think that you tried to transfer the bitcoin from your Kraken account:

Quote from: yellowmane on August 24, 2021, 03:30:50 PM

I just now attempted to cash out on Kraken in an attempt to transfer it to a better manageable system (Robinhood).

But if I read the title it seems that your aim was to:

1st - Transfer BTC to Kraken (From your Electrum wallet)
2nd - Sell BTC for FIAT (on Kraken)
3rd - Cashout directly to Robinhood

If this was your intention, and following Charles-Tim initial reply, your transaction ID is invalid - it doesn't show up when you search for it on Blockchair[1]. If you did ended up sending the BTC you should have the record on your History tab on Electrum. If you just right click on the most recent transaction and then click on "Details" you'll have a couple of information being shown to you (please refer to the following image taken from here[2]):

What you need to send us is the full address that shows right as the first field - Transaction ID . If correct we should be able to see where/if those BTC went anywhere.

[1] https://blockchair.com/search?q=f46cdc001deb0cd8a544df8d8dc82658d3b2bf9439798296007bea0c4981f101
[2] https://bitzuma.com/posts/a-beginners-guide-to-the-electrum-bitcoin-wallet/

yellowmane

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Actually, I noticed it did not go through during the FIRST step. The mention of RobinHood was to state my intentions (I apologize. I have been told I tend to get rather verbose when explaining things).

I can still access the wallet and it shows a bitcoin value of 0. Hmmm ... And you say the Trans ID is invalid? Odd as that is listed AS the trans ID (not refuting you - refuting Electrum).

Charles-Tim

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That is an invalid Bitcoin transaction id, check your Electrum wallet. This is surprising, you send Bitcoin on Electrum to Kraken and you did not know the transaction did not go through until you wanted to send the Bitcoin from Kraken to Robinhood.

Can you still access the Electrum wallet?
If the transaction did not go through, you should see your Bitcoin on the Electrum wallet.

yellowmane

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So, I'm new to bitcoins and was given some a couple of years ago to help with a financial situation. I just now attempted to cash out on Kraken in an attempt to transfer it to a better manageable system (Robinhood). The problem is, when I sent it to Kraken (Transaction ID : f46cdc001deb0cd8a544df8d8dc82658d3b2bf9439798296007bea0c4981f101), it went no where. Kraken tech support have no records of it being received at all. Any help would be appreciated.

Topic: Bitcoin from Electrum Wallet to Kraken lost (Read 204 times)