Bitcoin gambling website - legal or illegal ???

Bitcoin Betting Guide

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Quote from: steadyeddie on January 12, 2015, 10:20:31 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

... I recommend you mostly ignore them like all the best bitcoin gambling operators do. More detail here

And what exactly does the best bitcoin gambling operators do then?

Provide their services to everybody everywhere without asking for ID, just like it should be (and, unimportantly, against the law).

steadyeddie

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Quote from: ?? on ??

... I recommend you mostly ignore them like all the best bitcoin gambling operators do. More detail here

And what exactly does the best bitcoin gambling operators do then?

steadyeddie

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Onling gambling is illegal in the US, period. If someone wager value in a game of chance it is gambling. Just because it is Bitcoin doesn't mean it gets special treatment or is outside the law. You may argue that the illegal gambling act only applies to bank transfers and there are none in Bitcoin, I don't think this would hold up in a court. But I am not an expert.

robotraker

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not gonna work, it is illegal.
Besides, no body would trust you, you need online gambling license and become a trusted third party first.

boumalo

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Quote from: BitcoinSolutions.com on January 05, 2015, 04:18:39 AM

I live in USA.
I want to create a Bitcoin gambling website on my domain name WinBitcoins.com

Some simple game like...
11 people send me .1 BTC each to play.
I pick one random winner and pay out 1 BTC and keep .1 BTC

Is this considered gambling and is it legal or illegal in USA?

You would need a licence that you will not get to make it legal. A 10% fee is huge for a Bitcoin casino.

geoffreyqp

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Seems illegal. But probably wont matter unless you become really big.

Also to everybody in the thread calling him a noob and also those saying stuff about the game... Thats not what he was asking.

Who says he wouldnt use escrow and find a provably fair system. Also the example game was just an example.

The fact that he is asking if its legal or not before even starting, says something.

So many scammer police here

Chemistry1988

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I have no idea about that, but seriously you shouldn't ask for legal advice here on bitcointalk.
You don't know if those giving you advice and suggestions are professionals or are just making some wild guesses.

sase007

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Cant you just create webside outside US and operate there?

finlon

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Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 02:00:08 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:54:10 PM

Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 01:49:40 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:47:20 PM

If you dont scam them then it is ok, I guess

the point is that he talks about usa which i guess is the only country where people have problems with their bitcoin businesses

oh... it is not a problem if you live in the Czech Republic. In fact, we dont have to pay taxes(it is up to you, you may pay them, if you wish), if paying with bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not considered as currency, so exchanging or paying(and receiving payment) with them is not a problem .

yeah in my country there is the same strategy Cheesy

i think only usa people have problems with it

Sites are still allowed to operate in US, just that you shouldn't be there.
As long as this happens you would be safe.

ComboChris

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Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 01:46:15 PM

Quote from: toddtervy on January 06, 2015, 01:07:06 PM

Bitcoin isn't dollars, so I think it's legal. Good luck shutting all the sites down anyway.

isnt bitcoin is legal currency in usa which doesnt allow to create casinos without licence with it?

I'm not sure about US law in specific, but in most legislations, it doesn't matter whether bitcoin is a legal currency since you could sell it for dollars. With your logic, you could say Casino Jetons are not a legal currency therefore none of the IRL casinos need a license. In most legislations you could gamble with any random item and it would still be illegal which also does make sense from the legislator's view since the fact that somebody is gambling really has nothing to do with whether they are using a legal currency or not

toddtervy

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Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 01:46:15 PM

Quote from: toddtervy on January 06, 2015, 01:07:06 PM

Bitcoin isn't dollars, so I think it's legal. Good luck shutting all the sites down anyway.

isnt bitcoin is legal currency in usa which doesnt allow to create casinos without licence with it?

I don't believe it is, there's nothing you can use it to buy with. Maybe each casino can make their own 'play' money to exchange your BTC with also if that's a problem.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 02:03:05 PM

Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 02:00:08 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:54:10 PM

Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 01:49:40 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:47:20 PM

If you dont scam them then it is ok, I guess

the point is that he talks about usa which i guess is the only country where people have problems with their bitcoin businesses

oh... it is not a problem if you live in the Czech Republic. In fact, we dont have to pay taxes(it is up to you, you may pay them, if you wish), if paying with bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not considered as currency, so exchanging or paying(and receiving payment) with them is not a problem .

yeah in my country there is the same strategy Cheesy

i think only usa people have problems with it

I do think so too... the main problem there is the goverment - they dont people to have money in other currency, because of $. And btc is also helping drug dealers etc. to anonymise their bussinesses.

But surely you can't use tokens to get around all gambling laws, otherwise casinos wouldn't need licences because people bet chips, not money, in them.

sase007

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Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 02:00:08 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:54:10 PM

Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 01:49:40 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:47:20 PM

If you dont scam them then it is ok, I guess

the point is that he talks about usa which i guess is the only country where people have problems with their bitcoin businesses

oh... it is not a problem if you live in the Czech Republic. In fact, we dont have to pay taxes(it is up to you, you may pay them, if you wish), if paying with bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not considered as currency, so exchanging or paying(and receiving payment) with them is not a problem .

yeah in my country there is the same strategy Cheesy

i think only usa people have problems with it

I do think so too... the main problem there is the goverment - they dont people to have money in other currency, because of $. And btc is also helping drug dealers etc. to anonymise their bussinesses.

elephantas1

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Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:54:10 PM

Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 01:49:40 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:47:20 PM

If you dont scam them then it is ok, I guess

the point is that he talks about usa which i guess is the only country where people have problems with their bitcoin businesses

oh... it is not a problem if you live in the Czech Republic. In fact, we dont have to pay taxes(it is up to you, you may pay them, if you wish), if paying with bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not considered as currency, so exchanging or paying(and receiving payment) with them is not a problem .

yeah in my country there is the same strategy Cheesy

i think only usa people have problems with it

sase007

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Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: elephantas1 on January 06, 2015, 01:49:40 PM

Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:47:20 PM

If you dont scam them then it is ok, I guess

the point is that he talks about usa which i guess is the only country where people have problems with their bitcoin businesses

oh... it is not a problem if you live in the Czech Republic. In fact, we dont have to pay taxes(it is up to you, you may pay them, if you wish), if paying with bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not considered as currency, so exchanging or paying(and receiving payment) with them is not a problem .

elephantas1

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Activity: 378

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Quote from: sase007 on January 06, 2015, 01:47:20 PM

If you dont scam them then it is ok, I guess

the point is that he talks about usa which i guess is the only country where people have problems with their bitcoin businesses

sase007

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If you dont scam them then it is ok, I guess

elephantas1

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Quote from: toddtervy on January 06, 2015, 01:07:06 PM

Bitcoin isn't dollars, so I think it's legal. Good luck shutting all the sites down anyway.

isnt bitcoin is legal currency in usa which doesnt allow to create casinos without licence with it?

toddtervy

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Bitcoin isn't dollars, so I think it's legal. Good luck shutting all the sites down anyway.

elephantas1

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Quote from: aurel57 on January 06, 2015, 11:33:08 AM

The only way I see this working is escrow with a independent way to pick the winner that no way you could controll. I also think it would be better to have smaller buy in with a tier payout of maybe 3-5.

still no one would participate in such lottery as it has clear 10% house edge which is really impressive these days

aurel57

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The only way I see this working is escrow with a independent way to pick the winner that no way you could controll. I also think it would be better to have smaller buy in with a tier payout of maybe 3-5.

sethminer14

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Its hard to edge in on gambling websites. You have to attract customers from other websites. To do that, you have to be good

CrackedLogic

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It sounds like a raffle to me, what's so illegal about it? Use escrow if you're actually going to be doing this.

brownboy

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no law against bitcoins gambling but still it said to illegal....

ComboChris

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Quote from: Criterion on January 06, 2015, 05:14:03 AM

Quote from: ndnh on January 06, 2015, 04:59:46 AM

Question is about licensing and legality and half the people here talk about the raffle he is thinking of providing.

Well, I admit, the part is boring. especially with the 10% edge. Legality depends on country. And you need a license.

Exactly. Also keep in mind that a license can be somewhat expensive.

Also you shouldn't underestimate the time and cost it would take to make a company, since you would most certainly need a company if you wanna handle reasonable amounts of cash. Additionally you will probably have to pay higher taxes than usually since most countrys have an additional gambling tax. That's also the reason, why most bitcoin gambling sites simply choose the easy and illegal path.

Tschai

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Quote from: Criterion on January 06, 2015, 05:14:03 AM

Quote from: ndnh on January 06, 2015, 04:59:46 AM

Question is about licensing and legality and half the people here talk about the raffle he is thinking of providing.

Well, I admit, the part is boring. especially with the 10% edge. Legality depends on country. And you need a license.

Exactly. Also keep in mind that a license can be somewhat expensive.

Approx 40K/50K euros in the Netherlands...!!!!!!

BitCoinNutJob

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Quote from: BitcoinSolutions.com on January 05, 2015, 04:18:39 AM

I live in USA.
I want to create a Bitcoin gambling website on my domain name WinBitcoins.com

Some simple game like...
11 people send me .1 BTC each to play.
I pick one random winner and pay out 1 BTC and keep .1 BTC

Is this considered gambling and is it legal or illegal in USA?

wouldnt risk stuff like this in the USA, run the website from outside the US if needed.

Criterion

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Quote from: ndnh on January 06, 2015, 04:59:46 AM

Question is about licensing and legality and half the people here talk about the raffle he is thinking of providing.

Well, I admit, the part is boring. especially with the 10% edge. Legality depends on country. And you need a license.

Exactly. Also keep in mind that a license can be somewhat expensive.

ndnh

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New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Question is about licensing and legality and half the people here talk about the raffle he is thinking of providing.

Well, I admit, the part is boring. especially with the 10% edge. Legality depends on country. And you need a license.

NUFCrichard

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I agree that you need a licence to run a gambling site.
There are probably ways around it, like have 10 people donate money with one getting a 9x money back special, but it's still dodgy

zetaray

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The game play is irrelevant. If it is gambling, it is illegal if you do not have a licence. Unless you host it in a country where online gambling do not need a licence, keep all the funds separate and hidden, you might be able to get away with it, but still illegal.

Reynaldo

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I've made this kind of game, still finishing the design, i hope you'll enjoy it as soon as i release it with my partner

philiveyjr

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Quote from: KeyserSozeMC on January 05, 2015, 11:20:01 AM

Quote from: BitcoinSolutions.com on January 05, 2015, 04:18:39 AM

I live in USA.
I want to create a Bitcoin gambling website on my domain name WinBitcoins.com

Some simple game like...
11 people send me .1 BTC each to play.
I pick one random winner and pay out 1 BTC and keep .1 BTC

Is this considered gambling and is it legal or illegal in USA?

So, 90% of people should pay you to lose in other words?
Or what if you or some of your buddies is the "winner"?

Wake up. That's robbing.

I agree with the robbing part! the idea is pretty ridiculous in itself!!

KeyserSozeMC

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I'm dying.

Quote from: BitcoinSolutions.com on January 05, 2015, 04:18:39 AM

I live in USA.
I want to create a Bitcoin gambling website on my domain name WinBitcoins.com

Some simple game like...
11 people send me .1 BTC each to play.
I pick one random winner and pay out 1 BTC and keep .1 BTC

Is this considered gambling and is it legal or illegal in USA?

So, 90% of people should pay you to lose in other words?
Or what if you or some of your buddies is the "winner"?

Wake up. That's robbing.

Snail2

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As I seen there aren't too much interest in raffle like games here, so probably you would struggle to find players. Not to mention that not much ppl would bet 0.1 BTC with such slim chances to win.

Omikifuse

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Yes it is probably illegal.

But it is small fish, so if you don't shout you are from US and don't disclose personal info hen I think you will have no problem. I guess the FBI would not bother to make Theymos reveal your IP and stuff.

About the game: I would lower the minimum investment and the house edge. Maybe by giving lower rewards too?

About trust: if everything is doing using escrow, including the way of selecting winner, I think trust won't be an issue

But still need to think about a fair way of selecting the winner

NeuroticFish

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Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

I'd say that it is clearly gambling.
As people has already stated, your "example" game has a lot of flaws, I really hope that it's not the game you actually intend to provide.

Now, if you indeed have a good game to offer, I think that you should ask again, maybe on another thread, about the laws related to this (I am not from US and I cannot help); maybe registering (another) site in Cayman Islands fixes the problem :p

Stars

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Quote from: Testing123 on January 05, 2015, 09:46:54 AM

Other than the trust and legal issue mentioned already, you have to thing of a provably fair scheme to pick the winner, and lower your house edge % significant, or you cannot be able to attract players.

This. Why would anybody play with your extremely high house edge when they can play with a 1% house edge at places that have already proven there legitimacy?

Testing123

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Other than the trust and legal issue mentioned already, you have to thing of a provably fair scheme to pick the winner, and lower your house edge % significant, or you cannot be able to attract players.

ComboChris

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As far as i know online gambling is a legal problem in the USA, furthermore there is really no point for people to gamble on your site if you don't provide anything new and revolutionary.
Otherwise everbody would just make their own online casino.

bitbaby

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There is the trust issue as already explained above plus not many people would be interested in this. It's much easier and entertaining for them to play on so many different gambling sites offering so many games.

lightlord

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★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

The problem is, you benefit more if you keep all 11 people's .1 instead of taking .1 for yourself.
We have to trust that you won't run away and be legit. All that for very low RTP.
Unless you did escrow, or so. What stops you from just running away creating a new newbie account
and banking 11 times more?

And you only created your account like 23 mins before your OP

Quote from: BitcoinSolutions.com on January 05, 2015, 04:18:39 AM

I live in USA.
I want to create a Bitcoin gambling website on my domain name WinBitcoins.com

Some simple game like...
11 people send me .1 BTC each to play.
I pick one random winner and pay out 1 BTC and keep .1 BTC

Is this considered gambling and is it legal or illegal in USA?

BitcoinSolutions.com

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I live in USA.
I want to create a Bitcoin gambling website on my domain name WinBitcoins.com

Some simple game like...
11 people send me .1 BTC each to play.
I pick one random winner and pay out 1 BTC and keep .1 BTC

Is this considered gambling and is it legal or illegal in USA?

Topic: Bitcoin gambling website - legal or illegal ??? (Read 2067 times)