Bitcoin has proven it can pump hard without the need of chinese gamblers

cellard

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Quote from: RoommateAgreement on February 06, 2017, 10:38:06 PM

not only price has gone up with a pretty nice speed and percentage rise but also it has stayed up there. which is more important in my opinion.
the days of thinking it might come down are over, and all those who were saying the last drop is going to go even lower must feel pretty dumb and sad because of the amount of money they lost.

We are definitely on a new all time record for sustained $1000+ price which is amazing news. The more days we stay above $1000, the more the idea of $1000 being the new floor solidifies within the market mentality. Market participants will therefore instabuy anything that goes under $1000 in fear of missing out. Good times for Bitcoin ahead, $2000 is on sight.

RoommateAgreement

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Bazinga!

not only price has gone up with a pretty nice speed and percentage rise but also it has stayed up there. which is more important in my opinion.
the days of thinking it might come down are over, and all those who were saying the last drop is going to go even lower must feel pretty dumb and sad because of the amount of money they lost.

cellard

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Quote from: MatDerKater on February 01, 2017, 08:24:05 AM

Quote from: cellard on January 31, 2017, 08:40:28 AM

As we see and as some people predicted, bitcoin could still keep growing in quick bursts even if the big 0 fee chinese volume is not involved.

This legitimizes 2 things:

1) Bitcoin was not dependent on the infamous chinese market gambling for quick positive price movements
2) The uptrend is still as strong as ever and this was only another opportunity to buy cheap BTC before we go were be belong: that is, above price of gold, for bitcoin has objectively surpassed gold as a store of value.

Indeed. Bitcoin has pumped a whopping 3.2%!?

Undecided

The PBOC crash happened and it went as low as $750, now we are sitting comfortably at $1020, im pretty sure that is higher than 3.2% since the chinese regulators did they thing.

Ehh, it's time to go back to high school.

wavespump

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So you think previous mega pumps were caused by Chinese pumpers? IMO you are wrong, I assume the previous pumps were caused by western countries, because people in those countries have much higher average income than Chinese. Chinese exchanges' volumes were faked, so don't naively think they pumped bitcoin, fake volumes give you the wrong judgement: bitcoin is pumped by Chinese. But the truth is not, western countries use bitcoin more widespread, therefore western citizens pump the bitcoin.

marcoman22

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Quote from: cellard on January 31, 2017, 08:40:28 AM

As we see and as some people predicted, bitcoin could still keep growing in quick bursts even if the big 0 fee chinese volume is not involved.

This legitimizes 2 things:

1) Bitcoin was not dependent on the infamous chinese market gambling for quick positive price movements
2) The uptrend is still as strong as ever and this was only another opportunity to buy cheap BTC before we go were be belong: that is, above price of gold, for bitcoin has objectively surpassed gold as a store of value.

Yes, bitcoin price is no more dependant on chinese gamblers and chinese market.Its good for bitcoin progress.It shows the huge demand for bitcoin in rest of the world.Its a good chance to buy btc now as its price is going to skyrocket in the near future.We can say a big Bye to chinese gamblers as bitcoin is not going to be their playground anymore.

CyberKuro

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 31, 2017, 01:27:24 PM

Stop using that word 'pump', please. These are market fluctuations, and what we're seeing isn't the result of a concerted effort by Chinese gamblers, buyers, sellers, or anyone else. The market just ends up doing what it always does, which is moving up and down.

Whenever the price increase significantly, people will refer to 'pump' as they worry about suddenly drop back so hard.
Increases $50-100 a day looks significant in my point of view, and decreases $100-300 in a day, we will see another panic sell.
Happily to see the price rise again but how could OP so sure it's nothing related to Chinese regarding the market fluctuations?
I'm not so sure as China exchanges such as Huobi and BTCC has the highest price rate more than others.

romero121

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The current pump with the price getting closer to $1000 seems effective and its been proved as the Op's quote of reaching high without the support of Chinese market. Expect the price to get stable for a short time.

1Referee

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Quote from: Sundark on February 01, 2017, 07:59:43 PM

You sure that chinese traders are sharing this opinion?
Judging by the amazing popularity of the leverage trading in China they seem to be rather upset that their favourite trading method is gone.
For many chinese traders margin trading typical way of dealing with bitcoins.

Chinese high frequency traders will of course not be happy as their major source of income is being cut off by the PBOC. Margin trading was indeed very popular. Even so popular, that the major Chinese exchanges could afford to offer their traders zero fees for their regular trading platform. Now margin trading is something of the past in China, it's time for people to realize how much we have been tricked into thinking that these exchanges were generating that much volume. https://bitcoinity.org/markets/list But this is a great win for every other person/trader/investor/holder/etc.

Sundark

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Quote from: 1Referee on February 01, 2017, 07:53:16 PM

It has nothing to do with China "appreciating" Bitcoin that the price is going up. People just slowly start to realize that the PBOC actions are the best that happened to Bitcoin in quite some years. No more reckless gambling with borrowed money, where the price is constantly shaking from one side to the other. No more free manipulation of the markets as fees are implemented now. Only benefits.

You sure that chinese traders are sharing this opinion?
Judging by the amazing popularity of the leverage trading in China they seem to be rather upset that their favourite trading method is gone.
For many chinese traders margin trading typical way of dealing with bitcoins.

1Referee

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Quote from: Pab on February 01, 2017, 06:52:14 PM

Chinise whales moved to global exchanges what still not charging fee

Chinese whales moved to "global" exchanges that don't charge any fees? I highly doubt that. But feel free to point me towards these exchanges so I can look at how they are doing.

Quote from: Pab on February 01, 2017, 06:52:14 PM

At 1100$ fear appear that China will ban bitcoin

Only noobs are afraid of Bitcoin getting banned in China. China knows exactly what Bitcoin is capable of, and what potential growth it can realize in the coming years. If they ever wanted to put a total ban on Bitcoin, it would have been done already, trust me.

Quote from: Pab on February 01, 2017, 06:52:14 PM

now we clearly see that China is appreciatng bitcoin technology so price is coming back to 1000$

It has nothing to do with China "appreciating" Bitcoin that the price is going up. People just slowly start to realize that the PBOC actions are the best that happened to Bitcoin in quite some years. No more reckless gambling with borrowed money, where the price is constantly shaking from one side to the other. No more free manipulation of the markets as fees are implemented now. Only benefits.

Pab

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Chinise whales moved to global exchanges what still not charging fee,but it will be not for long.Fee are not a matter,there is very positive time for bitcoin.At 1100$ fear appear that China will ban bitcoin,now we clearly see that China is appreciatng bitcoin technology so price is coming back to 1000$

maku

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Quote from: DonQuijote on February 01, 2017, 07:21:01 AM

China helps, but its not the only agent

But Chinese traders are the biggest factor so far. They were behind every pump since 2013. Bitcoin price movements usually starts in China then EU and US follow the trend.
It's true that so far pumps were magnified by margin trading, but if you think that China will suddenly be reduced to second tier trading power because leverage limits - you are wrong.

MatDerKater

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Quote from: cellard on January 31, 2017, 08:40:28 AM

As we see and as some people predicted, bitcoin could still keep growing in quick bursts even if the big 0 fee chinese volume is not involved.

This legitimizes 2 things:

1) Bitcoin was not dependent on the infamous chinese market gambling for quick positive price movements
2) The uptrend is still as strong as ever and this was only another opportunity to buy cheap BTC before we go were be belong: that is, above price of gold, for bitcoin has objectively surpassed gold as a store of value.

Indeed. Bitcoin has pumped a whopping 3.2%!?

Undecided

BTCLovingDude

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BTC to the moon is inevitable...

i think it has been proven that there is no more pumps in bitcoin and there can not be a pump anymore. the rises and the volatility you see doesn't mean there is a pump going on.

and in fact if you think bitcoin is getting pumped then you shouldn't even invest in it because pump means a fake rise with no support and a pump is always followed by a dump without an exception!

DonQuijote

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China helps, but its not the only agent

Tanic

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I am sure in that fact that only we are, bitcoin holders, can affect on the price for bitcoin. Nothing more.

AjithBtc

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Quote from: jtipt on February 01, 2017, 05:53:49 AM

This rise is not in any way a pump, it's just normal market fluctuation depending on the current affairs, mostly because of the Chinese trading platform changing few things.

This seems to be the true increase of the bitcoin price based upon the market. This impact is expected to continue for a long with gradual increase in price.

chaser15

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Bitcoin price movement today is not the same as the price behaviour in the past so it doesn't need much of those big hoarders activity, be as Chinese or what. Coins are much distributed now to different big hoarders worldwide.

But no doubt they have a power to start a panic that will result for a pump and dump. So my conclusion, bitcoin can pumped hard because we have different big investors now alongside with the community that riding every trend.

jtipt

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This rise is not in any way a pump, it's just normal market fluctuation depending on the current affairs, mostly because of the Chinese trading platform changing few things.

Denker

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I wouldn't call that a hard pump.It's a pump.
And even more would I prefer a sustainable rise that just some short termed pump and dump scheme for fiat profit takers.There are still more than enough gamblers out there.
Let's see how this will look like in a few days.

Hazir

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It is too early to call that mild price rise a pump. At least wait till we reach psychological barrier of $1000.
Chinese margin trading is now mostly gone, but they still have significant impact on the price, signals for pumps will originate from Chinese exchanges as usual IMO.

Pursuer

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Where is my ring of blades...

when I said this down time will end soon, nobody believed me and they said we will go lower down to $600, etc just because it has happened before. everyone always forgets to look at the bigger picture and see up to their nose, and no further.
price will soon be back above $1000 and everyone who listened to the naysayers will start regretting but it would be too late.

Quote from: JimboToronto on January 31, 2017, 12:39:42 PM

Every time I see someone refer to a rally as a "pump", it makes me want to grit my teeth.
Pump and dump is a fraudulent stock market manipulation technique. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

the terminology that bitcoin users use is to messed up! it is nearly as messed up as how they panic each time there is a drop or a rise.

HarryKPeters

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Bitcoin is not just pumped by the chinese, but the volume they bring in makes spectators eager to don't miss out. And even yesterday's rise was significantly pushed by the asian markets:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

They have, hold the most volume.

coinplus

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Quote from: Hunyadi on January 31, 2017, 12:31:09 PM

>+15%/day is pumping hard. +3% is quite normal.

No, for a world wide trade-able commodity even 25% up surge also should not be considered as pump because of contribution from different part of people will be possible with respect to bitcoin trading always.

I guess the slow and steady scenarios alone being considered as normal. But distributed contribution from more people will lead to rapid surge which is showing sustaining long term stable prices also must be considered as normal imho.

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one of the thing that we should remember that bitcoin price can increased without the need of chinese gamblers but we should remember too that the price is depend on the market itself because traders have to participate to make increase or decrease the price so with many of traders that buying and selling bitcoin, i think it makes the price is fluctuative. don't thinking that chinese gamblers is the most of people that can controlled the price but maybe other people can control too.

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Quote from: JimboToronto on January 31, 2017, 12:39:42 PM

Every time I see someone refer to a rally as a "pump", it makes me want to grit my teeth.

Pump and dump is a fraudulent stock market manipulation technique. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is currently trading at coindesk $972 and you call this a rally? I thought rally should be refer to when market is trading within 5 to 10pip in a range. As at this time yesterday, bitcoin was trading around $919 and today $972 at the moment, I think a 52 dollar gained should be referred to as pump. I believe those that buy at $750 early this year have makes alot of gained within a month.

cakravothy

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today bitcoin price pump again because china people and china exchanger
you can see bitcoin price in huobi and okcoin, another exchanger follow trend bitcoin price use huobi and okcoin

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Quote from: alyssa85 on January 31, 2017, 01:01:25 PM

Quote from: JimboToronto on January 31, 2017, 12:39:42 PM

Every time I see someone refer to a rally as a "pump", it makes me want to grit my teeth.

Pump and dump is a fraudulent stock market manipulation technique. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

To be fair the move in December from $700 to over $1000 was a pump.

Pumped by whom? A pump is an action by inside manipulators trying to lure in victims for the purpose of dumping at the top and sending the price back down.

I see no such intent. The December rally was spurred by capital controls in China and India. The January dip was caused by panicky over-reaction to rumors of a PBOC crackdown.

It was not any kind of pump-and-dump scam.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 31, 2017, 01:27:24 PM

Stop using that word 'pump', please. These are market fluctuations, and what we're seeing isn't the result of a concerted effort by Chinese gamblers, buyers, sellers, or anyone else. The market just ends up doing what it always does, which is moving up and down.

Exactly. Thank you for the voice of reason.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Stop using that word 'pump', please. These are market fluctuations, and what we're seeing isn't the result of a concerted effort by Chinese gamblers, buyers, sellers, or anyone else. The market just ends up doing what it always does, which is moving up and down.

alyssa85

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Quote from: JimboToronto on January 31, 2017, 12:39:42 PM

Every time I see someone refer to a rally as a "pump", it makes me want to grit my teeth.

Pump and dump is a fraudulent stock market manipulation technique. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

To be fair the move in December from $700 to over $1000 was a pump.

The current move is a rally, and should prove that now that the Chinese are not main players, bitcoin should start behaving more normally.

bamboylee

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I just noticed this, bitcoin priced did jumped again. Though it is still a small price hike. If the increase reach above 150$, then maybe I can say that this movement is a pump. But if not, it is just a normal movement.

JimboToronto

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You're never too old to think young.

Every time I see someone refer to a rally as a "pump", it makes me want to grit my teeth.

Pump and dump is a fraudulent stock market manipulation technique. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

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Quote from: SvenBomvolen on January 31, 2017, 12:36:21 PM

Its silly to say how Chinese gamblers move the price of bitcoin. Recent rise proves that bitcoin is very strong , and price is recovering.
Chinese are making big traffic, but I'm not sure how much they can inflict on price. Bitcoin belong to all of us, especially the miners, how big role Chinese actually have in bitcoin world?

It will also not be ideal to remove that factor of Chinese influence whether gamblers or miners from either direction of the price of bitcoin. I agree that there are factors that causes the fluctuations but this factor also contributed to it.

SvenBomvolen

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Its silly to say how Chinese gamblers move the price of bitcoin. Recent rise proves that bitcoin is very strong , and price is recovering.
Chinese are making big traffic, but I'm not sure how much they can inflict on price. Bitcoin belong to all of us, especially the miners, how big role Chinese actually have in bitcoin world?

richardsNY

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You're going way too fast here. Firstly, it's not a pump at all, and second, there is no point in ruling out the major influence of China on the Bitcoin market. In order to come to such conclusion, you have to give the market way more time to settle. If after a month or six turns out that China isn't that influential when it comes to the price, then you may turn out to have a point. But as it is, it's too early now.

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>+15%/day is pumping hard. +3% is quite normal.

pooya87

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i disagree with your title here calling it a pump because right now price is $955 and that is about 3% rise!

but i agree with the rest about Chinese, i always say this even before their zero percent fee changed. and when they added the 0.2% fee things that i used to say were proven to be right.

the huge difference and how Volume and hashrate distribution are, tells us enough.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chinas-fakeness-before-and-after-1764928

d5000

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I agree with your first statement - although we can discuss if the pump was "hard" until now - but not with the second. The price of gold is irrelevant for BTC in my opinion, and more so is the price for one ounce - it would be more relevant if we would talk about gold's market cap (~7 trillion USD, Bitcoin is still far away from that) Wink

Regarding as BTC as "digital gold": Bitcoin can only work as a store of value if people actually use it as a currency. If we say "bitcoin is valuable because there are only 21 million units" then we forget that it's open source and there are many altcoins that can be used the same way. But what altcoins cannot replicate that fast is the "network effect" (users, businesses, miners and blockchain security) because there are "real" resources invested into it and "back" its value in some way. That's also why in my opinion the blocksize problem is more important for the future price evolution than most speculators here think.

cellard

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As we see and as some people predicted, bitcoin could still keep growing in quick bursts even if the big 0 fee chinese volume is not involved.

This legitimizes 2 things:

1) Bitcoin was not dependent on the infamous chinese market gambling for quick positive price movements
2) The uptrend is still as strong as ever and this was only another opportunity to buy cheap BTC before we go were be belong: that is, above price of gold, for bitcoin has objectively surpassed gold as a store of value.

Topic: Bitcoin has proven it can pump hard without the need of chinese gamblers (Read 1728 times)