bitcoin is controlled | Bitcointalksearch.org

Abiky

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Quote from: tygeade on April 04, 2023, 03:05:59 PM

Bitcoin is controlled yes but not in a way that it was been manipulated by the big whales or institutions because the coin is the most decentralized and fair among all other cryptos. Altcoins move up and down because this is the nature of cryptos. It's called volatility. Bitcoin has this too but the rate of Bitcoins volatility is much higher compared to them. It's also known that Bitcoin can manipulate the altcoins but some small altcoins can be manipulated by someone else. They are often called as pump and dump.

These are the one's that we must avoid because they are not contributing anything in this space. They are only here for business, to make a profit and the only one that can profit the most is their creators, not the investors.

I think the OP should change the title from "Bitcoin is controlled" to the "Crypto market is controlled". After all, whales are the ones who move market prices in their favor. Not Blockchain networks themselves. Bitcoin is by far the most decentralized cryptocurrency in the world, especially now when most coins are switching to PoS. Exchanges can do whatever they want with PoS coins using customer funds, but the same cannot be said about Bitcoin. They need to control around 51% of the network hashrate to be able to "steer" Bitcoin in their own direction. And we all know that's impossible to achieve considering that lots of money will be spent in the process.

The community should keep Bitcoin decentralized to help ensure it lasts for generations. As long as it stays that way, we should have nothing to worry about. Who knows if 99% of altcoins die in the long run due to lack of decentralization and censorship-resistance? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Bitcoin is controlled yes but not in a way that it was been manipulated by the big whales or institutions because the coin is the most decentralized and fair among all other cryptos. Altcoins move up and down because this is the nature of cryptos. It's called volatility. Bitcoin has this too but the rate of Bitcoins volatility is much higher compared to them. It's also known that Bitcoin can manipulate the altcoins but some small altcoins can be manipulated by someone else. They are often called as pump and dump.

These are the one's that we must avoid because they are not contributing anything in this space. They are only here for business, to make a profit and the only one that can profit the most is their creators, not the investors.

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Quote from: carrie_white on April 04, 2023, 10:21:46 AM

I think this is because bitcoin integrates with almost all altcoins, so that when the price of bitcoin goes down or goes up, it will also greatly affect the movement of altcoin prices significantly, but it does not rule out the possibility that bitcoin prices can be controlled by people in power.

Traders carry out trading activities based on the conditions that exist in Bitcoin. That's why there seems to be an alignment with altcoin prices. Still remember this?
- BTC UP -> Altcoins Down
- BTC Down -> Altcoin Down
- BTC Stable/Sideway -> Altcoins UP
Why is that?
When BTC UP, altcoins go down because most of them will do trading activities on BTC and choose to sell their altcoins to making another entry to the BTC to get a profit. That's why altcoins started to show a decline.

On the other hand, when BTC is down, why aren't altcoins going up? because there will be concerns from traders, if they hold their altcoins, they are afraid that BTC will go deeper, so they are start taking stop limit actions, and start waiting for the correction process to finish then entry. If there is FUD circulating, they will wait for the FUD moment to end.

When BTC goes sideways, traders start to feel that BTC is in good condition, there is no FUD, so traders start looking for alternatives to get profits, starting to actively trade on altcoins again and making altcoin price going up.

This is an example of normal situations on market. So, this is not a kind of control but is the alertness of traders who understand the potential and risks in trade.

IMO

carrie_white

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I think this is because bitcoin integrates with almost all altcoins, so that when the price of bitcoin goes down or goes up, it will also greatly affect the movement of altcoin prices significantly, but it does not rule out the possibility that bitcoin prices can be controlled by people in power.

GreatArkansas

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

I believe that it's just correlated with Bitcoin. As you can also see that Bitcoin's dominance against all altcoins is extremely high, so what's to expect? Expect that it will be the common price action of most of the altcoins.
Some actions could be, after Bitcoin pumps, altcoin follows. And once Bitcoin go for sideways, most of the time altcoins will pump.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

No one is surprised by the fact that when the S&P500 index grows, then almost all securities increase in price. So why do you doubt that altcoins should also move after Bitcoin, since its dominance in the cryptocurrency market is predominant.

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While many altcoins are correlated with bitcoin's price movements, it doesn't necessarily mean they are all controlled. Cryptocurrency markets are unique and influenced by a variety of factors, including news events and investor sentiment. Technical analysis can be challenging, but there are other indicators such as cryptocurrency social media and FOMO indicators that can be helpful. Altcoins also have their own market dynamics and features that can differentiate them from bitcoin and affect their price. For example, altcoins might have a unique use case or be listed on a major exchange. Overall, the cryptocurrency market is complex and influenced by many factors beyond just bitcoin's price movements

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Quote from: kak uli on March 31, 2023, 09:49:22 AM

the logic is like this, if someone controls Bitcoin then the price of bitcoin will be easily manipulated?
But so far I don't see anyone controlling it. The rise and fall of prices is only influenced by the media, not controlled. if there is bad news, usually the price of bitcoin has an effect and goes down on the market, so if for example there is good news, the price of bitcoin goes back up.
neh, therefore I don't think anyone controls Bitcoin.

I doubt that there are evidences that say Bitcoin is being manipulated. Its price is determined by market supply and demand and the market is highly volatile because of news and investor sentiment. But there's nothing wrong to be skeptic because the lack of regulation and transparency in the cryptocurrency market can make it susceptible to manipulation like insider trading and market manipulation by large players.

Quote from: crzy on March 31, 2023, 04:21:36 PM

Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

There’s a rumor about this but I think whales can’t totally control the market, though they can influence it but its already a different approach. If you think Bitcoin price is manipulated, then try to know when to buy so you will not get trap if ever. Altcoins still follow the trend of Bitcoin because it is still the top coins that fully influence the market, any fud and news can make Bitcoin price move.

Yeah. It is important to conduct thorough research and exercise caution to not get trapped in manipulation before making any investment decisions.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

There’s a rumor about this but I think whales can’t totally control the market, though they can influence it but its already a different approach. If you think Bitcoin price is manipulated, then try to know when to buy so you will not get trap if ever. Altcoins still follow the trend of Bitcoin because it is still the top coins that fully influence the market, any fud and news can make Bitcoin price move.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?
Cool

This is something I constantly consider. When bitcoin moves, the portfolio's altcoins follow suit. This common pattern makes me believe in bitcoin more because it controls the movement of others. Other altcoins may move but have no effect on the price of bitcoin, but when bitcoin moves, all other altcoins must follow. In the case of a bull run, it is impossible to overstate how all existing coins hit new ATH as bitcoin moves to a new ATH. I have no opinion and cannot make any assumptions about all of them being controlled.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

Imagine the volume that you need to control Bitcoin, you must be a big whale to do this but I’m doubt. Bitcoin is not being controlled its just that the market is following its trend and many altcoins really depend on Bitcoin. Though price manipulation is possible by spreading hype and fud, since majority will react on this to take advantage of the trend or to protect their holdings from losing.

kak uli

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the logic is like this, if someone controls Bitcoin then the price of bitcoin will be easily manipulated?
But so far I don't see anyone controlling it. The rise and fall of prices is only influenced by the media, not controlled. if there is bad news, usually the price of bitcoin has an effect and goes down on the market, so if for example there is good news, the price of bitcoin goes back up.
neh, therefore I don't think anyone controls Bitcoin.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

Pretty much every altcoin has a trade pairing with Bitcoin. Most of them have trade pairings with Ethereum too. If you want to buy an altcoin on a centralised exchange then you will buy them with USD, bitcoin or Ethereum most likely.

It’s both a blessing & a disguise I guess. When bitcoin pumps most alts tend to pump with a lag. Lots of money can be made in alts, although many of them have no use case or no real future, you can use Bitcoin to get in & out of them with nice profits.

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Quote from: @sriyan on March 27, 2023, 06:43:39 AM

We can not control bitcoin unless you have more than 50% ownership of the bitcoin. But there is nothing like that. Altcoins are following bitcoins due to money distribution. Because most of the owners of the altcoins are investing in bitcoin. When they get some profits, they will invest in altcoins. So the altcoin prices will increase.

There's no need to have more than 50% of hashrate to control bitcoin. You can control it even if you have less than it as long as you did collusion to the another miners. This problem was happening since a long time ago where miners were always making collusion to take over the hashrate and they will able to reject or approve the improvement proposal. This is making bitcoin unhealthy. I don't like miners. Miners are nothing without buyers.

Abiky

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Quote from: @sriyan on March 27, 2023, 06:43:39 AM

We can not control bitcoin unless you have more than 50% ownership of the bitcoin. But there is nothing like that. Altcoins are following bitcoins due to money distribution. Because most of the owners of the altcoins are investing in bitcoin. When they get some profits, they will invest in altcoins. So the altcoin prices will increase.

Not 50% of the coins, but rather 50% of the network's hashrate. There's a difference between ownership of coins in a PoS blockchain, and control of network hashrate in a PoW blockchain. Bitcoin is a PoW coin, so it can't be easily controlled by big players in the industry (mainly exchanges) unlike PoS coins like Ethereum and Solana. What can be controlled is the crypto market itself.

Whales have a lot of money "to play with", so they will move market prices either up or down depending on their needs. It'll up to you to play your cards right by buying/selling at the right time. As long as Bitcoin stays decentralized, nothing else matters. Just my thoughts Grin

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Influenced or controlled are pretty much the same in the case of bitcoin and its effect on altcoins. It doesn't really matter which term you prefer to use since it doesn't change the fact that BTC price movement dictates the overall market. These whales who moves bitcoin valuation are also moving altcoins in a way. Of course there are some that goes the opposite but that's just like around 1%.

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Quote from: Artem Sereda on March 27, 2023, 04:26:12 AM

I would say that they are very susceptible to many factors. And this allows its price to be manipulated.

In every market, it's believed that manipulations do happen and that's inevitable.

When a market has got a lot of rich participations from whales and financial institutions, it's prone to manipulation. But with that said, they can have big or little impact given the situation.

And the main medium that they use for are the news that are scaring or giving good vibes.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

We can not control bitcoin unless you have more than 50% ownership of the bitcoin. But there is nothing like that. Altcoins are following bitcoins due to money distribution. Because most of the owners of the altcoins are investing in bitcoin. When they get some profits, they will invest in altcoins. So the altcoin prices will increase.

Abiky

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

Not Bitcoin, but the crypto market is largely controlled by whales and other industry players. They're the ones who move crypto assets in their favor with their own money. BTC is the #1 crypto in market cap, not because of the whales, but because it has first-mover advantage. After all, BTC is the first crypto that started this craze. Altcoins follow Bitcoin's "footsteps", because every exchange has BTC as the main trading pair. In other words, BTC is the reserve cryptocurrency of the market. Therefore, any price action related to Bitcoin, will quickly reflect on altcoins as well.

It's best to put most of your money into BTC, while leaving the rest on altcoins. That way, you would minimize risks of loss as much as possible. Most altcoins are centralized these days, so who knows if they disappear in the future? Just my opinion

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Yes, most of the major altcoins typically go up or down according to Bitcoin, which shows that Bitcoin still plays an important role as a benchmark for the crypto market. However, this does not mean that all altcoins are controlled by Bitcoin.

Altcoins have independent value, determined by a variety of factors, including supply and demand, information and news, and project development. However, in reality, the value of altcoins is often influenced by the price of Bitcoin. This is explained by the fact that many people buy and sell altcoins using Bitcoin or Ethereum, and the value of altcoins is measured in Bitcoin or Ethereum.

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Quote from: avikz on March 14, 2023, 01:00:35 AM

Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?
Cool

Not controlled, I would say the crypto market is influenced by bitcoin. Bitcoin enjoys the perks of being the biggest and oldest crypto. But the crypto market is not entirely influenced by bitcoin. There are multiple coins in the market which shows a contradicting pricing pattern. But when it comes to other big cryptos, they are usually a follower of the pricing trend of bitcoin. But they are not controlled in any way!

I would say that they are very susceptible to many factors. And this allows its price to be manipulated.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

Yes, if we monitor market movements, almost all altcoins follow the bitcoin chart. But we also have to monitor the charts of coins that have died on the exchange. If the chart also turns green but there is no change in orders, it means that the chart is only affected by Bitcoin, because there are orders for these coins in the form of BTC.

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Quote from: Bay_Harbour_Butcher on March 16, 2023, 01:16:37 PM

controlling the ups and downs of the bitcoin price sounds very difficult but that doesn't mean it's impossible, for example war, the covid-19 pandemic and the movement of world economic flows also greatly affect the fluctuation of the bitcoin price, but in my opinion something bigger than that is the influence of media news which can be controlled by people who are very powerful, and of course it would be very easy to control the price of bitcoin if that could happen

If Bitcoin can be controlled, the person behind it already become rich since he has a way to control the Bitcoin price on the exact price, not to mention he's will be 100% correct about Bitcoin price guess contest. Who's the people who are very powerful? none, Elon Musk didn't even can control the Bitcoin price though he has a lot money.

What you're talking above is those people, article, news and economy condition could influence Bitcoin price, not to control Bitcoin price.

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Quote from: Bay_Harbour_Butcher on March 16, 2023, 01:16:37 PM

controlling the ups and downs of the bitcoin price sounds very difficult but that doesn't mean it's impossible, for example war, the covid-19 pandemic and the movement of world economic flows also greatly affect the fluctuation of the bitcoin price, but in my opinion something bigger than that is the influence of media news which can be controlled by people who are very powerful, and of course it would be very easy to control the price of bitcoin if that could happen

News is another benefit that keeps us up to date on market activity. In the case of candlesticks TA, we may choose to either align with our prediction or follow market movements. Crisis in either of these countries with instability has a significant impact on bitcoin. For instance, the COVID 19 was a significant obstacle that every nation faced and was fatal because there was no treatment, but at the present time, it has been leveled and managed. The market went through a severe bear market during COVID-19, and many traders and investors suffered losses.

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controlling the ups and downs of the bitcoin price sounds very difficult but that doesn't mean it's impossible, for example war, the covid-19 pandemic and the movement of world economic flows also greatly affect the fluctuation of the bitcoin price, but in my opinion something bigger than that is the influence of media news which can be controlled by people who are very powerful, and of course it would be very easy to control the price of bitcoin if that could happen

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Quote from: Xampeuu on March 14, 2023, 09:33:30 PM

altcoins that don't follow the movement of bitcoin, for example bitcoin turns green, so I am suspicious of that altcoin, mostly occurs in new altcoins which afterwards only become ash coins. this seems to have become a culture for every altcoin to follow the movement of bitcoin, on the other hand the biggest trust factor in cryptocurrency which makes bitcoin the leader for all cryptocurrencies. We can see this if we pair bitcoin and altcoins with USD, so we can see the movement of the two

New altcoins that don't have a good foundation and are just following the hype won't be able to survive the crypto market storm that will turn the altcoin to ashes. New altcoin projects are popping up more and more, but only a few survive and are able to develop their projects. The new altcoin is just speculation and just a pump dump practice. Altcoins will be affected by the price of Bitcoin, but bitcoin will not be affected by altcoins. Bitcoin up altcoin will collapse and bitcoin down altcoin will collapse even more. Except for bitcoin sideway, some good altcoins will start to recover. Bitcoin cannot be controlled by anyone completely.

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Thank you all for all the points. Interesting.

Cool

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

- Since they are equally volatile in the market, their values will not move the same if there is no seller or buyer, this is the usual reason why there is movement in the market.

If there is a sudden increase, this is probably because many holders are positioning themselves to prepare for the sudden kicking of its price and vice versa for the decrease in its value as well.

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The market dictates the uptrend and downtrend of bitcoin which is why altcoins follows whenever what bitcoin's price gonna be. Hence bitcoin is the mother of all crypto the trends will have the support and indicator of what's gonna be the condition of the market. Whales sometimes manipulates the market for their own agenda that's why market is always unpredictable.

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Quote from: Xampeuu on March 14, 2023, 09:33:30 PM

altcoins that don't follow the movement of bitcoin, for example bitcoin turns green, so I am suspicious of that altcoin, mostly occurs in new altcoins which afterwards only become ash coins. this seems to have become a culture for every altcoin to follow the movement of bitcoin, on the other hand the biggest trust factor in cryptocurrency which makes bitcoin the leader for all cryptocurrencies. We can see this if we pair bitcoin and altcoins with USD, so we can see the movement of the two

I think manipulation can occur for altcoins because some people or whales can move the price of the altcoin. After all, the price is still low at the start of its launch, so many people follow its movements.

But for bitcoin, I think it's very difficult to manipulate the price, especially now that the price of Bitcoin is over $20k and even though some people have a lot of Bitcoin, I'm not sure they will want to move it unless they have a specific purpose. But I don't know. I never thought about that because, in my opinion, we also don't know whether a group of people is really manipulating bitcoin or altcoin.

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Quote from: wheelz1200 on March 14, 2023, 04:49:41 PM

Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

For one, bitcoin drives the market, usually when bitcoin moves so do alts. But another huge factor is a lot of the alts are paired with bitcoin. So as bitcoin goes up in usd so do alts because the unlying paired asset went up. In short alts usually tend to always follow whatever bitcoin is doing. Skip the bull and just buy bitcoin and hodl

altcoins that don't follow the movement of bitcoin, for example bitcoin turns green, so I am suspicious of that altcoin, mostly occurs in new altcoins which afterwards only become ash coins. this seems to have become a culture for every altcoin to follow the movement of bitcoin, on the other hand the biggest trust factor in cryptocurrency which makes bitcoin the leader for all cryptocurrencies. We can see this if we pair bitcoin and altcoins with USD, so we can see the movement of the two

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Due to the dominance of Bitcoin, the price of alt-coins rises with the price of Bitcoin. So it cannot be called direct control But indirectly whole crypto market is controlled by bitcoin. And the reason for this is that bitcoin is the mother coin of the whole crypto world and so it is natural that other coins of the crypto world will follow it. So you just watch and you will also see and hear that when the Bitcoin price goes up, people say that it brings the market up and down.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

For one, bitcoin drives the market, usually when bitcoin moves so do alts. But another huge factor is a lot of the alts are paired with bitcoin. So as bitcoin goes up in usd so do alts because the unlying paired asset went up. In short alts usually tend to always follow whatever bitcoin is doing. Skip the bull and just buy bitcoin and hodl

Stable090

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Altcoin are been controlled by bitcoin, if bitcoin is pumping most altcoins will be pumping and if bitcoin is dumping, most coins will be dumping, bitcoin dominate the market so all other coins follows bitcoin movement. If bitcoin is dumping, people lose confidence in altcoins and they sell off so it will dump and if bitcoin is pumping, people end up gaining confidence in bitcoin and they will start buying back.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on March 13, 2023, 06:27:38 PM

I was thinking that bitcoin's massive rise, could have been fueled by many around the world withdrawing money from their bank accounts to buy bitcoin instead. The crash of silicon valley bank has left consumers concerned about whether a bank run will occur. Whether they will have access to their money if FDIC insurance isn't upheld. This could lead to mass withdrawals with consumers seeking other assets in which to store their wealth.

Yeah, the quest to get a better asset to have their money in is what has led investors in relying so much on bitcoin and as a decentralized asset that gives investors full control over their money since with their wallet keys, investors have access to their investment at all times.

Unlike the traditional banking systems where the third party mode of operation is 100% adopted, which makes banks at liberty to act arbitral and sometimes seize investors'/depositors' money.

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there are reasons where bitcoin fluctuates due to large investor factors, uncertain situations, the amount of USD volume in and out, making altcoin prices fluctuate actively. now there are many hidden whale teams to be able to manipulate altcoins to capture wins with strategies to beat small investors. and many other factors

vv181

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Controlling in a direct sense seems not quite the right word. Bitcoin, the leading coin in the cryptocurrency market, influences the whole market. It is that bitcoin's price movements correlate with altcoin price movements, mostly. With that in mind, "controlling" that you might perceive is tantamount to causation which is incorrect.

Now the how part. franky on the first page shows the example of triangular arbitrage. That is one of the possible reasons why the market follows bitcoins. A discprencacies within the market are utilizing to make someones bitcoin stash bigger. Another part, that I could think of is that bitcoin plays its part as an authority thing, it's kind only like a sentiment setter of the market. If bitcoin goes up, the altcoins market performances will follow.

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Quote from: StarKay on March 14, 2023, 11:35:33 AM

I don't think this should be up for debate because it is obvious to everyone that there is manipulation in the cryptocurrency market and the Whales are in charge of the market direction.

I don't think it is obvious to everyone. I don't think it is obvious to anyone. If it is so obvious, it should be easy to provide overwhelming evidence of manipulation.

I don't doubt that low-liquidity coins are manipulated. There are plenty of pump-and-dump schemes out there. But, you seem to be generalizing that to all coins.

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Quote from: Jackl87 on March 14, 2023, 03:03:48 PM

Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?
Cool

I don't really know what you mean with "controlled", but there is definitely no mechanism that makes all the other cryptocurrencies automatically go up or down in price when Bitcoin is also going up or down. In reality though this still is the case most of the times or at least on a grand scale and there are a few reasons for this. First of all a bear or a bull market is always happening withing the whole crypto market and not only for a few projects. Bitcoin is also still by far the leading project in the crypto space. So it is not really surprising, that most of the time Bitcoin is the first project to make a price move and then the other projects are following.

There must be some mechanism. If we notice last few days when bitcoin was going bearish many investors thought maybe bitcoin is heading for big fall again and so many investors sold their assets despite the loss. They thought they could buy from Dip. But the situation is completely different, Bitcoin is now starting to turn bullish again. If you think from this point of view, whales or large investors have held the market hostage to some extent.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?
Cool

I don't really know what you mean with "controlled", but there is definitely no mechanism that makes all the other cryptocurrencies automatically go up or down in price when Bitcoin is also going up or down. In reality though this still is the case most of the times or at least on a grand scale and there are a few reasons for this. First of all a bear or a bull market is always happening withing the whole crypto market and not only for a few projects. Bitcoin is also still by far the leading project in the crypto space. So it is not really surprising, that most of the time Bitcoin is the first project to make a price move and then the other projects are following.

blockman

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Rather than saying that it's controlled, it's more likely that it is heavily influenced by the situation. Because as seen in the public, whenever there is news about FED and other news related to the banks and crypto, there's the reaction of the market that if it goes positively then bitcoin will react positively and so the alts too. It's like everybody is watching the market and waiting for some trigger until we all buy at the same time, yeah, even someone who's not having a lot of money is part of it as long as he adds to the demand. But one thing for sure is that nobody can expect what the moves of bitcoin will show. Like today, it has reached $26k and then it's starting to drop again.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

The relationship between Bitcoin and altcoins can be complex and is influenced by various factors. While it's true that many altcoins tend to follow Bitcoin's price movements, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are all controlled. It's possible that they are simply affected by similar market forces, such as changes in investor sentiment, news events, and macroeconomic trends. Additionally, some altcoins may have unique features or use cases that set them apart from Bitcoin and can impact their price movements differently. Overall, the relationship between Bitcoin and altcoins is nuanced and influenced by a variety of factors.

Dragonfund

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

Some of this coins are control by team and whales and since whales buy and sell bitcoin, they sell altcoins also to minimized their liquidation, that is why we see altcoins bleed more when bitcoin drop in price small and altcoins do more drop than the bitcoin. It is also possible that truely the altcoins are been controlled by the whales but I don't know for sure if that is happening to bitcoin also reason is that bitcoin is decentralized and cannot be toy with few people and the whole world cannot think the same thing and want to manipulate the price of bitcoin.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

It can be manipulated but can't be controlled, cause looking at the market cap value its impossible for someone to control the prices as they wish because there won't be that much liquid cash available in anyone's hand or bank account in this world. Another simple reason is people just follow the trend of Bitcoin for their investment choices so whenever the bitcoin rise or falls the investors of altcoins too make changes in their holding which resembles the trend of Bitcoin to some extent.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

I don't think this should be up for debate because it is obvious to everyone that there is manipulation in the cryptocurrency market and the Whales are incharge of the market direction. CZ Binance is obviously one of the whales, I could also mention Justin based on their twitter activities.

Most altcoins unfortunately are pegged to Bitcoin for reasons best known to the developers otherwise we won't be having this almost one directional market situation.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

It's actually major altcoins are get controlled by Bitcoin based on your sentence, not Bitcoin is controlled.

But controlled isn't a correct word, but it's more like influenced since majority of altcoins holders are traders, so they're making money with the pump and dump scheme. When they see Bitcoin price is declining, major of altcoins will follow and they will convert it to a stable coin. That's why the market between volatile coins and stable coins are work different.

Othellobit

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unlike Fiat money, bitcoin technology does not seek permission from any central authority for transaction. Bitcoin is not controlled neither is it influenced by any private Body, Not even companies. most governments or companies that earlier saw the need of accepting it as a legal tender only have little control over a particular percentage of bitcoin, and this is called control of ownership. With this, they can only influence it's price with some regulations and other factors. they can't have a control over it's overall policy due to its decentralised nature.

YUriy1991

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I think this is very common and many people know why this happens. my opinion because Bitcoin is mostly controlled by market sentiment of traders and investors. This is because Bitcoin is the most traded cryptocurrency so its price movements often affect the prices of other altcoins. If we pay attention, the symbiotic relationship between Bitcoin and altcoins is also caused by the fact that most crypto trading pairs are denominated in Bitcoin.

franky1

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i too agree with the term "influenced"

another example of influence

the bitcoin market is the strongest so influences the weaker markets of altcoins

but bitcoin whales mainly trade on bitcoin "futures" markets where they bet the price wont go above X or below Y (some even bet that it wont move outside both XY)

those whales then use another stash of funds to then play the bitcoin spot market.
this is where instead of seeing a free market of price discovery on bitcoin you see (on a monthly view) that the weekly price gets less volatile and apears as a flat line

december 2022 had a near month long resistance to go above 17k. this resistance was lifted when futures whales won their futures bet at new year. and allowed a bit of free market discovery which days later they started weekly bets and influenced again
which is why on a wide view of monthly/6monthly you see a 'step stone' view instead of a mountain landscape
|\_~~\
_~~| ^\~~
instead of
/\ /\
/ \/\/ \
/ \/

moneystery

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

I don't think it's controlled, because the crypto market is big enough and mature. But just like other investment markets, the crypto market cannot be separated from government influence and economic sentiment as well as the role of whales which often affect the crypto market and make it appear unstable. Due to these various external influences, it seems that the crypto market is in control, but it is not controlled at all.

Zanab247

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I guess, the price of BTC controlled other cryptocurrencies because whenever the price of Bitcoin is going doing in the market other cryptocurrencies price will also going down to allow people to buy and hold, that made many users to believed BTC control other cryptocurrencies. The price of BTC just returned back to $24k yesterday and other cryptocurrencies price has started displaying green light already to alert their customers about bull season soon.

avikz

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?
Cool

Not controlled, I would say the crypto market is influenced by bitcoin. Bitcoin enjoys the perks of being the biggest and oldest crypto. But the crypto market is not entirely influenced by bitcoin. There are multiple coins in the market which shows a contradicting pricing pattern. But when it comes to other big cryptos, they are usually a follower of the pricing trend of bitcoin. But they are not controlled in any way!

franky1

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

yep. its called arbitraging
where people dont just day trade left and right between btc<>usd
but instead play the wider markets
usd>btc>eth>usd>btc
usd
what you notice is
each market/community(coin) should have its own 'price discovery' of its own community/utility/desires/speculations/benefits

however if the community is weak/low/uninterested. their own market 'price discovery' efforts do not move much. meaning it allows other coins arbitraging effort to affect the altcoin market more than the altcoins own price discovery efforts can defend against other coins arbitrage

bitcoin is strong so yes bitcoin over powers weak altcoins. when bitcoiners arbitrage between the markets

.. here is the thing.
ethereum has locked up most funds into "stake" meaning their community is passive rewarding itself new coins. but not then able to trade those coins on the market.. thus has become less price discovery independent due to their weak market. their stake is locked until they release code to allow stake unlocking (so people can actually spend their passive rewards)

this means ethreums price speculation is controlled by bitcoin. and is being artificially held up by bitcoiners

but wait until those who staked can unstake. then there will be a wave of people selling coins on eth and breaking the shadow tracing arbitrage of bitcoin .

here is another thing
when ethereum switched to pos. the underlying cost of creating new coin dropped by 95% meaning there should have been a correction of price discover by a 20x drop/correction

however due to the lack of 'unstaking' the arbitraging of markets. that correction has been delayed

but as soon as unstaking is allowed and people can then sell their eth where lots of eth suddenly hits the market. expect the 20x correction

the eth-btc ratio will change from 14:1 to 280:1
meaning instead of ~$1.6k eth it will be ~$80

eths underlying price discovery of cost of coin reward is about $40 a coin.. down from 800 a coin
so right now eth is artificially marketed at a 40x of value
which pre pos it was price discovering at only/ever a speculation of ~1.5x-6x
thus yes eth is going to correct

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on March 13, 2023, 05:40:56 PM

A common characteristic of the crypto market (Bitcoin and altcoins) is volatility: either the market is going up or down. There are some factors that contribute to the movement of the Bitcoin price, such as bad or good economic news, that could either cause the market to spike or fall, but the price movement of Bitcoin doesn't mean it's controlled. Also, war and pandemics can affect Bitcoin's price movement. From what I know, Bitcoin is decentralized and not regulated or managed by any organization. Altcoins price movement could be controlled by the project itself; for instance, they could add or remove liquidity from their token.

Wow you did a great job with your explanation but on the other hand, OP was basically trying to know if Bitcoin controls other Altcoins as most times it seems that when Bitcoin is in bear market, most of the coins also seems to drop and when Bitcoin also rises, most of the Altcoins also tend to move in same direction, hence OP was trying to know if the movement of other Altcoins are dependent on the movement of Bitcoin aswell.

Actually I have had this similar thoughts about crypto and also seeing Bitcoin as the superior to them all and I also think atimes tat most of this Altcoins are actually dependent on Bitcoin.
Hope I get a better explanation of why it seems other Altcoins move in same direction as Bitcoin.

Fundamentals Of

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They move up and down at the same time as Bitcoin if you are looking at their prices in US dollar. Most of the charts today are showing the prices of Bitcoin and altcoins in USD. But once I shift the price of my coins in my mobile price tracking app to Bitcoin rather than USD, it shows that while Bitcoin is actually in green, the altcoins are all in red. When I set the prices in USD, all of them are in green. It's only because Bitcoin's price is really surging that the altcoins, even if they're falling in their prices in terms of sats, are still net green in terms of USD.

CryptoBuds

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Although the value of an asset will depend on supply and demand, and especially a decentralized asset like bitcoin. But in my opinion, the cryptocurrency market is still very new and small, so being manipulated by the rich is inevitable.
I believe what's going on in the market is largely controlled and manipulated rather than supply and demand, because if volatility were due to supply and demand, it wouldn't have volatility as much. Every market will have manipulation, but with crypto, there will be more than others.

Charmekkd

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Most of the altcoins are always controlled by the ups and downs of prices by bitcoin because it has become a habit for people when they want to buy altcoins to always look at the price of bitcoin first, so that way prices fluctuate and follow bitcoin trends.

but what has most influenced the increase in bitcoin in my opinion is the economic factor because if the economy is good, of course, a lot of people will withdraw their savings at the bank to buy bitcoin.
So the bitcoin price goes up.

sheenshane

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There is various reason why they correlate to each other when the Bitcoin price goes up or down.
It might the reason Bitcoin is the most widely traded cryptocurrency, and as such, changes in its price can have a ripple effect on the prices of other cryptocurrencies due to liquidity effects. Or it could be many altcoins are traded against Bitcoin on cryptocurrency exchanges, which can also contribute to the correlation between their prices.

For being controlled?
It might possible to manipulate because Bitcoin isn't immune to manipulation, it can be influenced by various factors, including market sentiment, supply and demand dynamics, and geopolitical events. Or possibly it causes by large investors or traders who may be able to influence the price of Bitcoin through their trading activity or by spreading rumors or false information, IMO.

Hydrogen

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I was thinking that bitcoin's massive rise, could have been fueled by many around the world withdrawing money from their bank accounts to buy bitcoin instead. The crash of silicon valley bank has to leave consumers concerned about whether a bank run will occur. Whether they will have access to their money if FDIC insurance isn't upheld. This could lead to mass withdrawals with consumers seeking other assets in which to store their wealth.

We won't know for certain exactly what happened until more data is available. There are a few generic scenarios which can typically explain most price movements. Of which, most have been known for many years.

Many of the things people believe are "new" have been around for decades. People simply did not know about them until now.

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Quote from: BADecker on March 13, 2023, 05:08:47 PM

Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

I think that one reason that coin prices move in tandem is that people invest in different coins for the same reasons, so they make the same short-term investment decisions regardless of the coin.

As for being controlled, I don't see how that would be feasible without being publicly visible. There might be one or more coins whose prices are manipulated, but I don't think that manipulation can exist across many coins.

Zorigi

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I personally am still a beginner in crypto knowledge, but in my opinion in this case what influences the rise and fall of bitcoin and altcoins is of course from several things, such as good news or bad news,
and fundamentally it affects the price of crypto.
and declining economic conditions, it greatly affects price movements.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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A common characteristic of the crypto market (Bitcoin and altcoins) is volatility: either the market is going up or down. There are some factors that contribute to the movement of the Bitcoin price, such as bad or good economic news, that could either cause the market to spike or fall, but the price movement of Bitcoin doesn't mean it's controlled. Also, war and pandemics can affect Bitcoin's price movement. From what I know, Bitcoin is decentralized and not regulated or managed by any organization. Altcoins price movement could be controlled by the project itself; for instance, they could add or remove liquidity from their token.

BADecker

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Since most of the major altcoins move up or down at the same time as bitcoin, aren't they all controlled? How does it work?

Cool

Topic: bitcoin is controlled (Read 496 times)