Topic: Bitcoin is not investment! (Read 2235 times)

Quote from: RobinHoodster on May 03, 2016, 03:59:41 AM

I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

I cant see this since this is a debate between fiat vs bitcoin.

I mean the only reason we see value for a price on bitcoin is due to fiat.. so yeah..

Not me? I value $100 in BTC as more valuable than $100 in dollars. I can do more with BTC, I can shop across the world, it is more secure, it's faster, it's cheaper; it's worth more.

same thing and...the only reason why i'm holding, is because i don't accept that bitcoin is valued only 400, until it's not evaluated 10k, i would not use it massively(btw i say used it not dump it for fiat...)

this is exactly the same way i am feeling about bitcoin

although i don't think the bitcoin price can ever reach $10K but i say $400-$500 is not bitcoin real value either.
so i am also waiting for the day that bitcoin reaches a high price and is also adopted more, then i will start spending.

Bitcoin is an investment because you spend money in it and you are hoping that the value will be higher after that so you can earn a lot of money with it and that call you profit.
And that is also called an investment that you are making.

Bitcoins can be categorized as a currency now than as an investment because bitcoin is getting adopted into many platforms and into wider market (e.g. Steam, debit cards, stores, etc). However with mining still doable (although not as good as before), and with the value rising and/or falling, bitcoins can still be considered as an investment.

The exchange rate of different currencies keep rising and falling too. Bitcoin can be considered as both.

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 30, 2016, 09:54:44 AM

Quote from: vero on May 03, 2016, 12:42:28 PM

I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

I cant see this since this is a debate between fiat vs bitcoin.

I mean the only reason we see value for a price on bitcoin is due to fiat.. so yeah..

Not me? I value $100 in BTC as more valuable than $100 in dollars. I can do more with BTC, I can shop across the world, it is more secure, it's faster, it's cheaper; it's worth more.

same thing and...the only reason why i'm holding, is because i don't accept that bitcoin is valued only 400, until it's not evaluated 10k, i would not use it massively(btw i say used it not dump it for fiat...)

this is exactly the same way i am feeling about bitcoin

although i don't think the bitcoin price can ever reach $10K but i say $400-$500 is not bitcoin real value either.
so i am also waiting for the day that bitcoin reaches a high price and is also adopted more, then i will start spending.

Bitcoin is an investment because you spend money in it and you are hoping that the value will be higher after that so you can earn a lot of money with it and that call you profit.
And that is also called an investment that you are making.

Bitcoins can be categorized as a currency now than as an investment because bitcoin is getting adopted into many platforms and into wider market (e.g. Steam, debit cards, stores, etc). However with mining still doable (although not as good as before), and with the value rising and/or falling, bitcoins can still be considered as an investment.

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Quote from: ravens on May 03, 2016, 12:05:18 PM

Does it really matter? Some people see BTC as currency, some see it as an investment or both. It's all just a matter of opinion.

yes you right and in my view not really important if bitcoin it's investment or currency because everyone has their views and this discussion will never run out because of these factors.

Your right this thread could continue till 100 pages and the discussion will still be going on.

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Quote from: ravens on May 03, 2016, 12:05:18 PM

Does it really matter? Some people see BTC as currency, some see it as an investment or both. It's all just a matter of opinion.

yes you right and in my view not really important if bitcoin it's investment or currency because everyone has their views and this discussion will never run out because of these factors.

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I treat bitcoin more as an investment rather then just a currency, as fiat is taking care of my expenses so whatever bitcoin I am earning I am holding it for future.

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Does it really matter? Some people see BTC as currency, some see it as an investment or both. It's all just a matter of opinion.

~Bitcoin~

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Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

If we see 100$ ups and down even within weeks and month than bitcoin will not be well priced as of now. We have to see natural price movement according to simple rule of any asset like supply decrease demand increase than price should also increase. Which you can see right now happening before block halving.

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Quote from: pissedoff on May 03, 2016, 10:05:40 AM

Quote from: mindrust on May 03, 2016, 10:02:52 AM

Goddamn right.

You should only buy bitcoin when you make a purchase. Holding bitcoins is still too risky.

Holding and waiting is same with gambling.

Holding bitcoins isn't same like gambling. When you gamble the risk is much higher than holding bitcoins.

Its sort of a yes and no depending on the obvious price situation.

On 1 hand you have the bullish forever side, where as long people hold bitcoin the price flux remains the same. And the other is in the case of the scenario of similar to a pump and dump, whatever you paid for bitcoin. Which is the intial investment loss, so anything below the purchase cost would be a gamble.

What youre gambling on is that the scenario of those odds are not likely to happen.

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I think so too, I feel bitcoin is a currency and not an investment tool.
I always use bitcoin as a currency, and may well impact that we can get is the price further, and-many people think that bitcoin is a good investment

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Quote from: pissedoff on May 03, 2016, 10:05:40 AM

Quote from: mindrust on May 03, 2016, 10:02:52 AM

Goddamn right.

You should only buy bitcoin when you make a purchase. Holding bitcoins is still too risky.

Holding and waiting is same with gambling.

Holding bitcoins isn't same like gambling. When you gamble the risk is much higher than holding bitcoins.

Yeah gambling differs from gambling in terms of the risk involved. At the same time considering bitcoin as an investment or some other form of source depends upon the user.

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Quote from: mindrust on May 03, 2016, 10:02:52 AM

Goddamn right.

You should only buy bitcoin when you make a purchase. Holding bitcoins is still too risky.

Holding and waiting is same with gambling.

Holding bitcoins isn't same like gambling. When you gamble the risk is much higher than holding bitcoins.

mindrust

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Goddamn right.

You should only buy bitcoin when you make a purchase. Holding bitcoins is still too risky.

Holding and waiting is same with gambling.

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 30, 2016, 09:54:44 AM

Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 30, 2016, 09:54:44 AM

I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

I cant see this since this is a debate between fiat vs bitcoin.

I mean the only reason we see value for a price on bitcoin is due to fiat.. so yeah..

Not me? I value $100 in BTC as more valuable than $100 in dollars. I can do more with BTC, I can shop across the world, it is more secure, it's faster, it's cheaper; it's worth more.

same thing and...the only reason why i'm holding, is because i don't accept that bitcoin is valued only 400, until it's not evaluated 10k, i would not use it massively(btw i say used it not dump it for fiat...)

this is exactly the same way i am feeling about bitcoin

although i don't think the bitcoin price can ever reach $10K but i say $400-$500 is not bitcoin real value either.
so i am also waiting for the day that bitcoin reaches a high price and is also adopted more, then i will start spending.

precisely how I feel as well

praprata

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You can see bitcoins as an investment because it allows you to make more money but I understand what you are saying. Bitcoin is a currency but it just gives people the opportunity to make money and that is why people see it as a investment.

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Quote from: JimboToronto on March 29, 2016, 10:49:36 PM

I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

I cant see this since this is a debate between fiat vs bitcoin.

I mean the only reason we see value for a price on bitcoin is due to fiat.. so yeah..

Not me? I value $100 in BTC as more valuable than $100 in dollars. I can do more with BTC, I can shop across the world, it is more secure, it's faster, it's cheaper; it's worth more.

same thing and...the only reason why i'm holding, is because i don't accept that bitcoin is valued only 400, until it's not evaluated 10k, i would not use it massively(btw i say used it not dump it for fiat...)

this is exactly the same way i am feeling about bitcoin

although i don't think the bitcoin price can ever reach $10K but i say $400-$500 is not bitcoin real value either.
so i am also waiting for the day that bitcoin reaches a high price and is also adopted more, then i will start spending.

Bitcoin is an investment because you spend money in it and you are hoping that the value will be higher after that so you can earn a lot of money with it and that call you profit.
And that is also called an investment that you are making.

CryptoBjorn

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In my opinion you can see Bitcoin as an investment because you can make more money with it. Most people see it as an investment that is why they are holding on to there Bitcoins for the future. But you can see Bitcoin also as a currency.

btcbug

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Quote from: btcbug on March 29, 2016, 06:40:51 PM

Investment is a term that's used pretty loosely though.

That was what I thought when I first saw this thread's title.

Bitcoin, metals, real estate, fine art, musical instruments, ownership of businesses (including shares) and antiques are all investments.

So are friendships, children, education, experience and business contacts. Not all investments are material things.

Yep it pretty much comes down to a person's preferred definition.

I think it's inherent in all human action that we are acting to further our own self interests. Any action I perform is expending my own valuable and finite time and so every action followed from my own economic calculations. That's also why the economy is such a thing of beauty. So many individuals all making millions of calculations of how best to direct their personal resources. Now I sounds like Mises or Rothbard

This definition is pretty broad and is how most would use the term in the financial realm.

noun

1. the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

I cant see this since this is a debate between fiat vs bitcoin.

I mean the only reason we see value for a price on bitcoin is due to fiat.. so yeah..

Not me? I value $100 in BTC as more valuable than $100 in dollars. I can do more with BTC, I can shop across the world, it is more secure, it's faster, it's cheaper; it's worth more.

same thing and...the only reason why i'm holding, is because i don't accept that bitcoin is valued only 400, until it's not evaluated 10k, i would not use it massively(btw i say used it not dump it for fiat...)

this is exactly the same way i am feeling about bitcoin

although i don't think the bitcoin price can ever reach $10K but i say $400-$500 is not bitcoin real value either.
so i am also waiting for the day that bitcoin reaches a high price and is also adopted more, then i will start spending.

Amph

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Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

I cant see this since this is a debate between fiat vs bitcoin.

I mean the only reason we see value for a price on bitcoin is due to fiat.. so yeah..

Not me? I value $100 in BTC as more valuable than $100 in dollars. I can do more with BTC, I can shop across the world, it is more secure, it's faster, it's cheaper; it's worth more.

same thing and...the only reason why i'm holding, is because i don't accept that bitcoin is valued only 400, until it's not evaluated 10k, i would not use it massively(btw i say used it not dump it for fiat...)

harizen

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Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

In general yes it's not an investment but taking only this crypto as normal currency will not give you the supposedly profit you will get by doing trades so in my part I considered this as an investment.

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Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

Bitcoin is sort of investment with a dream that its price would increase soon. Its price could not get less because of the trust and stability it has earned over this short period of time. If a large number of people start selling their bitcoins at the same time then it would prove to be an unstable situation and would affect its price.

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Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

I cant see this since this is a debate between fiat vs bitcoin.

I mean the only reason we see value for a price on bitcoin is due to fiat.. so yeah..

Not me? I value $100 in BTC as more valuable than $100 in dollars. I can do more with BTC, I can shop across the world, it is more secure, it's faster, it's cheaper; it's worth more.

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But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

Why sell for 100$ when people pay 415$?

Holdaaja

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Why couldn't bitcoin be investment?
You can invest in euros or dollars too if you want so I don't see why you couldn't invest in bitcoin too...

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Quote from: stromma44 on March 30, 2016, 08:15:07 AM

Quote from: USB-S on March 30, 2016, 07:06:59 AM

Bitcoin is what people see it is. So different people see it as different things. It's freedom for some, investment for other. Bitcoin actually is what your mind makes of it.

Yeah and play with it in short term do no keep it for long term as no one is sure about the future, its a just a good product to make a quick money.

Bitcoin is good for quick bucks but in long term investment its volatility is so high that why its hard to invest in it for a long run.

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Quote from: USB-S on March 30, 2016, 07:06:59 AM

Bitcoin is what people see it is. So different people see it as different things. It's freedom for some, investment for other. Bitcoin actually is what your mind makes of it.

Yeah and play with it in short term do no keep it for long term as no one is sure about the future, its a just a good product to make a quick money.

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Quote from: USB-S on March 30, 2016, 07:06:59 AM

Bitcoin is what people see it is. So different people see it as different things. It's freedom for some, investment for other. Bitcoin actually is what your mind makes of it.

Yeah bitcoin really depends on what a person thinks what it is,no matter what you think it is for me its best invention made this century.

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Bitcoin is what people see it is. So different people see it as different things. It's freedom for some, investment for other. Bitcoin actually is what your mind makes of it.

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BTC to the moon is inevitable...

bitcoin is not meant to be and investment but it is an investment at the moment.

and that is only because of the volatile nature of it and there is nothing we can do right now except using it like that.

jt byte

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Well maybe its not a investment but on this time many people consider it as a investment because you can make a lot of profit with it, if you invest in it these days right ?
I call my bitcoins a currency that I use for payments but I must say also for a investment because its still profitable and its like stockings in my eyes, so I can see why people are saying this.

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I think it would be best to call it a commodity. And when it is used as money, it's commodity money. Like gold.

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Bitcoin isn't tied to any name people throw at it. Bitcoin is multi functional. That's why more and more people prefer Bitcoin over any kind of fiat currency. It's pure freedom.

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Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

well, bitcoin was created first as a currency but since the market has been small and the price swings around all the time, it makes it a good place for trading it and making money (fiat) by doing that.

also don't forget even USD, EUR and the rest of the currencies are being traded too just like bitcoin is being traded.

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Bitcoin will be the future payment method and that can be so good, but you can also get some profit with it with Bitcoin and that can be very nice if you wait long enough for a price rise.
We all see Bitcoin as money because it has a value and that is good, but it must be more used and acceptable later.

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You may have a point but some have different opinion since they mainly invest in it to profit in the long run, so in their case, it's more of an investment and to others is more of a alternation money to the normal traditional options out there.

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Quote from: alisafidel58 on March 30, 2016, 12:44:22 AM

Bitcoin is a form of money where you can invest it in different ways,its price vary from many different aspect like users,supply and demand , miners.

Some people prefer it to be compared with gold.

But theres a debate on either if it holds closer to a money transmitter then gold, and everything that follows with the money situation.

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Quote from: alisafidel58 on March 30, 2016, 12:44:22 AM

Bitcoin is a form of money where you can invest it in different ways,its price vary from many different aspect like users,supply and demand , miners.

Exactly that's right. Bitcoin is a form of money which is slowly getting spread to the people. Its not just for investment, when lot people know about it, it will get used as our local currency.

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Bitcoin is a form of money where you can invest it in different ways,its price vary from many different aspect like users,supply and demand , miners.

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I would say that Bitcoin is money, but it isn't accepted enough to be easily used as a currency.
It is probably used more as an investment, but then the US dollar is used as an investment in lots of 3rd world countries, so that doesn't mean that it can't be a currency and/or money too.

I see it much more like Gold at the moment though. It is money, but places don't accept it as currency, so you have to go through steps to trade it for currency before spending it. That makes it harder to use, so people treat it like an investment.

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I must disagree. Bitcoin is essentially an investment.

Of course it's a currency, but many currencies can be invested in but also have a form of value.

As an example, take gold. You can invest in it and earn significant profit when the price rises. Of course, you could lose as well. That goes for any investment, a profit is never guaranteed. You can also trade gold and it was once a means of currency, before fiat money came into play.

Same with Bitcoin. Think of it like gold. You can buy shares of it but many people still accept it as a means of payment. It doesn't matter if the price has been stable or volatile, that is up to the supply and demand of said commodity.

Point is, you can make an investment in virtually anything. Heck, I could make an "investment" in my future and learn Spanish to be able to speak it. In the world of economics, you can invest in any commodity or currency. Especially when it comes to FOREX trading, which is the core of what we're talking about.

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Quote from: JimboToronto on March 29, 2016, 10:49:36 PM

Quote from: btcbug on March 29, 2016, 06:40:51 PM

Investment is a term that's used pretty loosely though.

That was what I thought when I first saw this thread's title.

Bitcoin, metals, real estate, fine art, musical instruments, ownership of businesses (including shares) and antiques are all investments.

So are friendships, children, education, experience and business contacts. Not all investments are material things.

Anything that requires effort, money or time to be put into it of some kind is an investment; and education is an investment (like you said), exercise is an investment, a bitcointalk.org account is an investment. Some investments are far more valuable than others.

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Quote from: btcbug on March 29, 2016, 06:40:51 PM

Investment is a term that's used pretty loosely though.

That was what I thought when I first saw this thread's title.

Bitcoin, metals, real estate, fine art, musical instruments, ownership of businesses (including shares) and antiques are all investments.

So are friendships, children, education, experience and business contacts. Not all investments are material things.

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Quote from: rikky05 on March 29, 2016, 09:32:23 PM

Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

Is not an investment you are right, I'ts a currency Wink

Bitcoin as a currency is strong that it wont go down that far again,bitcoin has its user that is faithful to the currency thats why the price is high if there are no more users then the price might go down.

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Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

Is not an investment you are right, I'ts a currency Wink

JollyTrades

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First of all, bitcoin cannot be an 'investment' but an 'investment instrument.' Secondly, that bitcoin is not designed to be an investment instrument, or that bitcoin is in essence not an investment instrument does not preclude its being an investment instrument. Because, being an investment instrument is not an inherent property of a thing, but is about the way in which people make use of a thing. Thus, if there are speculators who think they are investing in bitcoin, then in that particular use, bitcoin becomes an investment instrument. Money, stocks, and bonds are also the same. If you use bitcoin to buy something, then in that particular use, bitcoin is not an investment instrument. Clear as it is.

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Yes I kind of agree. Usually an investment is something that earns you a cash flow, for example real estate. Bitcoin could be considered a currency and it could also be considered a speculative asset at the moment. Long term it's also more a store of a value. Investment is a term that's used pretty loosely though.

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Quote from: maokoto on March 29, 2016, 05:23:46 PM

It was not intended to be an investment, but a currency. But oil was not supposed to ve an investment, but to act as fuel. Houses were not supposed to be investments, but to act as homes... etc.

But it absolutely sucks as a currency! Nobody wants to spend their bitcoin except the hardcore users who insist it's the revolutionary world currency. But it doesn't seem like it's turning out that way, does it? And what of all these shitcoins--are they currency as well? I would say hell no. They're digital gold. A way to store and transfer value.

So I say bitcoin is definitely an investment. At least more so than a currency.

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It was not intended to be an investment, but a currency. But oil was not supposed to ve an investment, but to act as fuel. Houses were not supposed to be investments, but to act as homes... etc.

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Quote from: a7mos on March 29, 2016, 04:41:39 PM

Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

I agree with you that bitcoin was not created to be an investment. but earning from exchanges is normal for any currency. and you can not see $100 again because simply, no one wants to sell his bitcoin for this low price now

I dont agree with you that $100 price wont come , last when bitcoin came to $1000+ after that even it touched below $100 and then it got ups and down, so no price is nothing until Bitcoin is in trading, and Bitcoin was not created for investment but the way all are using the technology and now it is become more part of most of thems life earnings and savings also. So now bitcoin can be said as investment but it is like Mutual Fund which you are investing as investment but their is no confirmation that you will earn this much on this much time.

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Quote from: Drekavac on March 29, 2016, 12:32:21 PM

Bitcoin is not investment but you can see more talks about price increasing and earnings on exchanges.
But i don't know why we can't see 100$ again or even less?

I agree with you that bitcoin was not created to be an investment. but earning from exchanges is normal for any currency. and you can not see $100 again because simply, no one wants to sell his bitcoin for this low price now

randy8777

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bitcoin can be whatever you want. for me bitcoin is a currency, store of wealth, and an investment tool. that's what my bitcoin usage looks like. at this moment there is way too much demand, so prices of $100 and even lower will possibly never happen again, unless there is very bad news such as a huge exchange that lost all its coins due to a hack or theft from inside the exchange.

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I think your right, it's a currency. But to complicate things one could invest in currencies.

currencies can be investments as gold is a kind of currency too and it is considered to be an investment

to be honest bitcoin is one of the best investment options that you can get right now thus it can make you a lot of money

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