Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 30, 2019, 03:47:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 10:37:11 AM

~Smaller markets are easier to manipulate (silver is not a very big market overall) but even the biggest markets get manipulated. It just requires more leverage which is not available to "regular" billionaires. This is the task for central banks and their likes. Obviously, you can't catch these as they are the ones who do all the catching (and punishment, for that matter)

Well, we can't catch them, but we can spot them, and at least we have the right to not participate in the manipulations. (By "participating" I mean allowing them to rob us.) Maybe we should invest less in what they tell us to invest in, and think more with our own head

That would be of little help

You would still have to use dollars, euro, rubles, whatever, whether you like it or not. And these are the biggest scams ever aimed to steal from you and your wealth (read, you are forced to "invest" in what they tell you after all). I know what you are going to say next, namely, that now we have crypto so we have essentially won that right back. Honestly, I wish I could agree with you

But is it really so? If crypto is just an assortment of speculative assets (for all practical intents and purposes), how much is it actually different? You still remain a toy in the hands of a bunch of rogue and extremely selfish market manipulators and whoever else might be hiding in the dark out there. In fact, the only real choice we have is to use what we've got to our advantage by gaming this very system

ecnalubma

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JPMorgan is only good on making noises by demoralising the market for their own good. This is how big companies attack young market like Bitcoin, they find it cheaper to influence the market by making bad statements rather than manipulating the prices on exchanges.

cotton ball

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Do not trust any one because they can't prediction how bitcoin and altcoin price at the future, many of their prediction always incorrect with how bitcoin and altcoin situation right now, they are talking about bitcoin will down but until now bitcoin still with higher price, many prediction just to make you panic.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on October 01, 2019, 07:16:36 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Manipulation is always there. Even in the stock market there are manipulation. The best thing to do is to not be against to those whales or those people who manipulate the market and try to learn their behavior on how they manipulate the market so after you learn their tactics and strategies then that is when you join their flow of trading and make profit from their action.

You're right cause we cant actually go against the whales when they manipulate the market but also seize the opportunity to buy low. With that been said, the JPMorgan traders was not accused of manipulating the bitcoin market but the prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures through the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges.

What is then the assurance that we have that he is also not manipulating the market of Bitcoin also if he can manipulate the market of gold and all those big markets. I do not trust JP Morgan one second, and all those things that he might be saying about Bitcoin sometimes might just be camouflage to just create panic so that he will get the chance to buy low, because that is how the whales naturally manipulate the market.

JP Morgan has actually been a very had influence to the cryptocurrency market and I don't think that anyone should be paying so much attention to someone of is caliber since we already know that his is a bad market player and could actually be one of these people that has been manipulating the market.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Manipulation is always there. Even in the stock market there are manipulation. The best thing to do is to not be against to those whales or those people who manipulate the market and try to learn their behavior on how they manipulate the market so after you learn their tactics and strategies then that is when you join their flow of trading and make profit from their action.

You're right cause we cant actually go against the whales when they manipulate the market but also seize the opportunity to buy low. With that been said, the JPMorgan traders was not accused of manipulating the bitcoin market but the prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures through the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges.

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Nothing new here.
Every time these big traders company willing try any kind of manipulation. Sometimes This will be successful, and with a minimum chance to being cached by SEC.
This is the True.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 10:37:11 AM

~Smaller markets are easier to manipulate (silver is not a very big market overall) but even the biggest markets get manipulated. It just requires more leverage which is not available to "regular" billionaires. This is the task for central banks and their likes. Obviously, you can't catch these as they are the ones who do all the catching (and punishment, for that matter)

Well, we can't catch them, but we can spot them, and at least we have the right to not participate in the manipulations. (By "participating" I mean allowing them to rob us.) Maybe we should invest less in what they tell us to invest in, and think more with our own head.

deisik

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Quote from: micher143 on September 28, 2019, 10:45:43 PM

Market manipulation is anywhere, even is stock it is manipulated by whales, I think it is just fined because it happens in every type of currency or trades. we need just to be cautious in investing, many coin which have a small volume can be manipulated, just stay out of it and you will be just fine

Technically, there are two major varieties of market manipulation

The first, which you refer to in your post, i.e. manipulation by big players and market movers ("whales" as people call them here) may not even be considered proper manipulation by some (even though such activities can be prohibited by governing bodies and agencies such as CFTC, SEC and their likes) because it is market manipulation carried out by market means via exploiting one's financial leverage

On the other hand, there is market manipulation of a more evil or even destructive type. This manipulation is done not by traders (whales or otherwise) but by entities which have a leverage other than purely financial. These are exchanges themselves first and foremost as well as all those trading commissions already mentioned (don't be surprised here). This type of manipulation is inherently evil as it destroys the market when it runs wild

micher143

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Market manipulation is anywhere, even is stock it is manipulated by whales, I think it is just fined because it happens in every type of currency or trades. we need just to be cautious in investing, many coin which have a small volume can be manipulated, just stay out of it and you will be just fine.

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 28, 2019, 09:58:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 01:37:10 AM

~
This is just human nature and you can't do anything with it apart from catching transgressors and punishing them appropriately (which would raise that ratio and make it prohibitively expensive to break the rules). The Hunt brothers case is a classic in the market manipulation genre

Great example! It shows us what kind of people can manipulate the market. Just read the quote below:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

The Hunts lost over a billion dollars through this incident, but the family fortunes survived.

Those guys lost $1 billion, but it was okay because their family had $4 billion more. So you have to be not simply rich, but super rich, with billions of USD, to do such things

This is only a tip of the iceberg

Silver market is especially shiny (pardon the pun) for its manipulation propensity but it is definitely not the only pebble on the beach. Smaller markets are easier to manipulate (silver is not a very big market overall) but even the biggest markets get manipulated. It just requires more leverage which is not available to "regular" billionaires. This is the task for central banks and their likes. Obviously, you can't catch these as they are the ones who do all the catching (and punishment, for that matter)

Pab

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I am curious what kind of penalty they will get
I am more and more sure that we have that kind of great traders in bitcoin trading
It is paradise for them.All kind of dirty tricks are legal .With some printed money they can move markets as they wants.we still don"t here news that they were manipulating gold,silver and bitcoin market.Hope it will happen one day

djsugar

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This market manipulation has become a daily routine of these investment banks. Investment banks and hedge funds make up to 60%-70% of the total volume traded on US exchanges. Hence, come the big advantage of manipulating the daily trades and volumes. Recently, Goldman Sachs came on news for the exact same reason. They get fined time and again by regulatory authorities but that changes nothing. This is sad reality the major concentration is with a few.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 01:37:10 AM

~
This is just human nature and you can't do anything with it apart from catching transgressors and punishing them appropriately (which would raise that ratio and make it prohibitively expensive to break the rules). The Hunt brothers case is a classic in the market manipulation genre

Great example! It shows us what kind of people can manipulate the market. Just read the quote below:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

The Hunts lost over a billion dollars through this incident, but the family fortunes survived.

Those guys lost $1 billion, but it was okay because their family had $4 billion more. So you have to be not simply rich, but super rich, with billions of USD, to do such things.

Now, let's think of where, on what markets, we have more billionaires, on crypto or on regular ones? I bet it's the latter. So, at least we can safely assume that manipulations happen everywhere, not only in the field of crypto.

deisik

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin

I wouldn't blame just JPMorgan traders

Every trader would do essentially the same in absolutely any market (gold, crude oil, and, yes, crypto too) as long as the risk/reward ratio is acceptable to them. In more mundane terms, if they can pull off some trick that is considered illegal or even outright prohibited but there is a high chance to get away with it, you can be damn sure some will go for it to earn a buck or two

This is just human nature and you can't do anything with it apart from catching transgressors and punishing them appropriately (which would raise that ratio and make it prohibitively expensive to break the rules). The Hunt brothers case is a classic in the market manipulation genre

marcbitcoins

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It would be really bad if this true that the business magnet JP Morgan involve in manipulating the market as it will give ugly reputation to the crypto market in which it will make the investors to stay away from Bitcoin but what is his true motive of doing this? Is he is a Bitcoin supporter or a destroyer? As i think manipulation is very common to all market.

Dread Pirate Roberts

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When talking crypto market with the stock market is certainly very different. they trade based on the real activity of a real project that is sure to have an impact. and they are required to make a definite profit or with a large percentage to make a profit. different from crypto market. so from the way they think and crypto traders it's definitely different.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

The main difference is that if the authorities have enough evidence for the manipulation they will be fined a hefty amount as well as suspend them from trading for an amount of time and bitcoin market needs to get rid of these manipulation and FUD and for that regulation in the market is needed, bitcoin will be seen as a market for all these manipulators to invest Grin

.

BitHodler

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Quote from: teosanru on September 27, 2019, 03:57:01 AM

Who said that the stock markets are not manipulated? I have worked myself in a major stock trading firm and Insider trading is a routine activity unless and until you play foolishly and get caught.

It happens on all levels indeed. The difference is that in the legacy markets the manipulation is much more advanced and less in the picture, while in crypto you can reek and actually see it from miles away.

Quote from: teosanru on September 27, 2019, 03:57:01 AM

You know the worst part is that many a times SEC too gets compromised in this. I don't want to sound like a whistle blower but Generally the big cases you hear about insider trading are the one's which are absolutely impossible to hide from eyes of normal public so SEC too is forced to take a strong action.

I think the underlying problem is that people assume that regulators (doesn't matter what part of the industry they guard) are constantly monitoring market activity to curb down potential abuse, but that's definitely not the case.

In most cases they are being tipped or start an investigation after many complaints. From there it's not too surprising that it may seem they only go after the most obvious cases of manipulation.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation, Again!

Quote

The U.S. Department of Justice has charged top managers at JPMorgan Chase of market manipulation, Reuters reports. For the better part of a decade, according to DoJ charges, traders Gregg Smith, Michael Nowak and Christopher Jordan allegedly manipulated prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures on the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges. JPMorgan Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation

The individuals under indictment hold high-profile roles at JPMorgan Chase & Co. Smith is an executive director and trader on the precious metals desk, while Nowak runs the entire desk as a managing director. Both are still employed at JPMorgan, though they were suspended in light of the indictment.

Jordan left JPMorgan in 2009 but continued to trade precious metals with in other firms.

The trio is accused of spoofing, a practice where the trader places bids to buy or sell contracts which are canceled before execution, allowing them to influence prices to their benefit. The scale involved was massive, with prosecutors alleging that they were conducting thousands of unlawful trading actions while layering orders in rapid succession.

https://thecoinrise.com/bitcoin-is-still-bad-jpmorgan-chase-traders-accused-of-market-manipulation-again/

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Who said that the stock markets are not manipulated? I have worked myself in a major stock trading firm and Insider trading is a routine activity unless and until you play foolishly and get caught. You know the worst part is that many a times SEC too gets compromised in this. I don't want to sound like a whistle blower but Generally the big cases you hear about insider trading are the one's which are absolutely impossible to hide from eyes of normal public so SEC too is forced to take a strong action. Otherwise Insider trading is something too cool and stock traders love to stay in touch with KMP of major companies to get this information regularly.

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Quote from: abhiseshakana on September 26, 2019, 02:22:02 AM

When discussing JP Morgan's sentiments towards Bitcoin we must try to find out what their interests are?
Psychologically they are banking giants in the United States and the World. They have planted their hegemony in the banking industry at enormous expense, they are traditional conservative people who want to maintain their hegemony.

JP Morgan feels their hegemony is threatened by the existence of cryptocurrency, they realize that it is only a matter of time before some of the world's population realizes the benefits of the digital economy. If the internet can shut down mass media companies, giant retail stores close outlets, they fear bitcoin will castrate JP Morgan's role in the banking industry.

It is all about profit and about money
Adoption and innovation of advanced technology is absolute and cannot be avoided by anyone. What JP Morgan is doing now is just an attempt to slow down the process of losing hegemony.

We are not really discussing JPMorgans sentiment towards bitcoin though. I mean surely they don't like bitcoin at all and they accused it being so easy to manipulate (they are right on that) but at the same time it doesn't matter because Goldman Sachs another huge company like them bought out Circle payment systems which owns poloniex, which shows that not all big money is against bitcoin, some maybe against it but some are supporting it, plus these are huge companies that usually does what CEO wants so maybe CEO of JPMorgan may not like bitcoin but surely there must be some investors of bitcoin working there.

No, the discussion here was that yes bitcoin is easy to manipulate but that doesn't mean there is no manipulation in other markets as well, there are plenty of them provable by the message OP wrote.

abhiseshakana

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When discussing JP Morgan's sentiments towards Bitcoin we must try to find out what their interests are?
Psychologically they are banking giants in the United States and the World. They have planted their hegemony in the banking industry at enormous expense, they are traditional conservative people who want to maintain their hegemony.

JP Morgan feels their hegemony is threatened by the existence of cryptocurrency, they realize that it is only a matter of time before some of the world's population realizes the benefits of the digital economy. If the internet can shut down mass media companies, giant retail stores close outlets, they fear bitcoin will castrate JP Morgan's role in the banking industry.

It is all about profit and about money
Adoption and innovation of advanced technology is absolute and cannot be avoided by anyone. What JP Morgan is doing now is just an attempt to slow down the process of losing hegemony.

Harlot

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The news is pretty misleading especially the part when they connect it to the crypto industry. JP Morgan is charged in market manipulation alright but not the crypto market but the precious metals market which is totally a different industry which the crypto industry isn't even connected or somehow affected. I don't know why news sources like this one try to connect everything so that it makes it somehow relevant to what they are trying to show but the truth is they are never transparent of what they are saying and hid a lot of facts about the real news. Here is a more detailed news about the charge filed by the DOJ towards JP Morgan and you will know how different it is, there is not even one mention of the word crypto or Bitcoin in it.

Betwrong

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Quote from: el kaka22 on September 25, 2019, 07:50:36 AM

The sad thing about this is that maybe they are in bitcoin as well. Think about it this is untapped unregulated market for them and they must be having super fun with it, there is no government there is no nothing that can meddle with bitcoin, you may think there are laws in USA or some other country but these are the people who stashed their money in panama and when the panama papers came out and showed that ultra rich get away from paying taxes by putting all their money in panama only thing that happened was the journalist who figured it out got killed, all others who did the crime got away with it so it is quite easy that these people might be playing with bitcoin in millions of dollars every day in some shady third world country and get away with it.

Yes, it's possible that they are the same people because for performing successful manipulations, one must possess three following qualities: 1. be rich; 2. be callous; 3. be experienced in market manipulations. I said "callous" because those people do not give a flying f**k about how their manipulations can affect others. I'm not judging them. Maybe it's not the worst quality to have in the world of business. I'm just stating the fact. No one knows how their actions affect their lives, if there's any effect at all. But I do agree with you that they can be the very same people.

el kaka22

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The sad thing about this is that maybe they are in bitcoin as well. Think about it this is untapped unregulated market for them and they must be having super fun with it, there is no government there is no nothing that can meddle with bitcoin, you may think there are laws in USA or some other country but these are the people who stashed their money in panama and when the panama papers came out and showed that ultra rich get away from paying taxes by putting all their money in panama only thing that happened was the journalist who figured it out got killed, all others who did the crime got away with it so it is quite easy that these people might be playing with bitcoin in millions of dollars every day in some shady third world country and get away with it.

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I know there are a lot of people here who always feel Bitcoin is very bad, but I think it's great. In any portfolio, you risk and make you lose money when investing in it. Bitcoin has a higher level of risk than all Altcoins, but its profits are higher than all Altcoins. Give up cryptocurrency if you do not take the uncertainty it brings.

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This is nothing new, few years back I saw a movie on this stuff it was about some whistleblower who told the story how the market are manipulated and it was about spoofing.
Now lets think of BTC market. If these guys are doing this kind of stuff in this very heavily regulated market , then how easy is for big players to do the same in BTC markets.. it is happening all the time.

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Anyone who tries or says that Bitcoin, Crypto, and Blockchain is fraud and the like actually they really want to enter this world, it's just that these people have been trapped in the mindset of competition with the traditional financial system before this bitcoin.

So they only have 2 choices, try to enter another cave that is not certain or keep digging in the same gold cave

Betwrong

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Quote from: magneto on September 22, 2019, 06:36:54 PM

~
JPMorgan is nothing but a group of opportunists.

They shifted their stance on bitcoin entirely, from initially being extremely negative and bearish on bitcoin (with Jamie Dimon coming out publicly and condemning bitcoin), and all of a sudden shifting their stance entirely to being bullish on bitcoin long term. The reversal of their opinion is completely arbitrary and unpredictable, and solely based on their own positions, which likely turned from being short on bitcoin to being long.

It wouldn't be surprising then that they are indeed manipulating the markets. After all, to meet their investors expectations, this is what they are expected to do, really.

I doubt that we can place the blame on a single actor alone though. Manipulation of financial markets is extremely widespread and not just limited to one corporation alone.

Yes, of course, it's not. There are many other manipulators on the market. The point of the OP is that big manipulations are not only happening on the crypto market alone. And this is very important because over the past years regular folks could get an impression that big manipulations happen only on the crypto market.

stadus

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These businessmen are just fooling us, they tend to tell us they are clean and bitcoin is a dirty money, a bubble, and etc, but now they are accused of market manipulation. They are bad, they are centralized so they can easily manipulate compared to the crypto space where even manipulation is happening, at least people know that and they can make the right decision to adjust their strategy.

Bitcoin is created to provide more transparency while the banks are against it as they cannot continue their dirty business, I'm sure more and more with this kind of news will be expose in the future.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation, Again!

Quote

The U.S. Department of Justice has charged top managers at JPMorgan Chase of market manipulation, Reuters reports. For the better part of a decade, according to DoJ charges, traders Gregg Smith, Michael Nowak and Christopher Jordan allegedly manipulated prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures on the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges. JPMorgan Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation

The individuals under indictment hold high-profile roles at JPMorgan Chase & Co. Smith is an executive director and trader on the precious metals desk, while Nowak runs the entire desk as a managing director. Both are still employed at JPMorgan, though they were suspended in light of the indictment.

Jordan left JPMorgan in 2009 but continued to trade precious metals with in other firms.

The trio is accused of spoofing, a practice where the trader places bids to buy or sell contracts which are canceled before execution, allowing them to influence prices to their benefit. The scale involved was massive, with prosecutors alleging that they were conducting thousands of unlawful trading actions while layering orders in rapid succession.

https://thecoinrise.com/bitcoin-is-still-bad-jpmorgan-chase-traders-accused-of-market-manipulation-again/

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

There are some takeaways from this extract of a news

1. This has shown a deficiency in the precious metal trading as it is clearly in display how metals that have been traded for years and probably more popular than some countries in modern day world could be manipulated by certain individuals and not in honor to be more than 2 people from their desk. This to me is a set back.

2. Another thing worthy of note is a market that is being regulated and there is some other eyes whose responsibility is just to watch. Nothing else. When you are caught, you will be made to face the music which irrespective of how high and mighty the position you occupy. This is a great development that needs to find its way into crypto at least to bring some level of sanity and make a statement that its no longer free for all.

The point to also note is to for one separate personal opinions from the corporate position in that even if JP Morgan is saying bitcoin is bad, it does not mean their people are not dealing with it. Its just a statement for them to look good in the eyes of those who might be watching.

magneto

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Quote

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

JPMorgan is nothing but a group of opportunists.

They shifted their stance on bitcoin entirely, from initially being extremely negative and bearish on bitcoin (with Jamie Dimon coming out publicly and condemning bitcoin), and all of a sudden shifting their stance entirely to being bullish on bitcoin long term. The reversal of their opinion is completely arbitrary and unpredictable, and solely based on their own positions, which likely turned from being short on bitcoin to being long.

It wouldn't be surprising then that they are indeed manipulating the markets. After all, to meet their investors expectations, this is what they are expected to do, really.

I doubt that we can place the blame on a single actor alone though. Manipulation of financial markets is extremely widespread and not just limited to one corporation alone.

Reid

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Correct.
What can we expect from those people with power.
Nothing actually.
They want more money they will take it by spreading FUD.
People should be the ones who will open their eyes from this kind of acts.

We are lucky though with our eyes already opened and we can see the truth behind it.

btc_angela

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Quote from: Polo7 on September 22, 2019, 01:28:45 PM

Nothing Special about wall street and investment market manipulations!

Remember dotcom bubble?

They bought Secretly b4 actual launch shares with cheaper price!

This is how it works

At least this are proven facts that the greedy Wall Street big shot guys are market manipulators and will get their everything they can as long as there are more money to be made. I'm not sure about the dotcom bubble, but I remember the massive impact is has created on the market that time. However, it seems that new set of players are still practicing this old but very effective trick in the book. And people doesn't learn as well and that's why this trickers can do everything they can, at least they're caught, should we see some punishments here or are those greedy person can escape the hands of the law?

Polo7

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Nothing Special about wall street and investment market manipulations!

Remember dotcom bubble?

They bought Secretly b4 actual launch shares with cheaper price!

This is how it works

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Quote from: bitgolden on September 21, 2019, 12:17:09 PM

I wonder how many times people have manipulated the crypto market as well? I mean here we are sitting on high horse talking about how financial Goliaths are doing this but we are here at small timers (180 billion market cap versus trillions of dollars in financial market) and we still have manipulation from the whales.

Sad part about it is that we do not have law enforcement on our side as well so people who did bad stuff at JPMorgan got jailed and found guilty but here in bitcoin world people who are wealthy and rich can do whatever they want and there is nothing that can stop them. The decentralized and unregulated approach of bitcoin does bring in amazing stuff but sometimes it does hurt itself as well, it is a price we have to pay but we should not point fingers to others in that case.

That is true, cryptocurrencies and crypto market isn't protected and regulated as classic financial system. But isn't that something that crypto users have chosen? Independency and decentralization and not to mention how many of them are actually against any kind of regulation.
On the other hand if Bitcoin and crypto are so decentralized and independent how come that such manipulation is even possible?

fiulpro

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It's not just Bitcoins you should understand that ..
As long as it's profitable for them they are good but as soon as it goes down for them they start hating the market and it is actually the same for every investors to be honest.

This is how it goes for them.
People are going to be greedy so I don't think there is anything different from what was expected of them.

MonsterV

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 21, 2019, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: SquallLeonhart on September 21, 2019, 02:07:13 PM

They don't sit and take out time to research Bitcoin, rather they just jump out from nowhere to start calling it a scam. Well, I do understand that they all did that because Bitcoin is too volatile so they thought that it must have been a scam. But the mistake they made was that they didn't take their time to research about the coin. It would have been better if they stayed mute than trashing it publicly and doing the opposite in private.

JPMorgan is known to manipulate markets not only through words by calling it shit or that something can't work, but by actually being active in that market. They're just trying to make people panic sell. Don't feed these whales. As always, don't look at what they say, but look at what they do; they're buying Bitcoin yet calling it a fraud. Makes sense right? Roll Eyes

I believe that JPMorgan is one of main players in this crypto market manipulation. They created panic everywhere to make price of bitcoin go down and then they bought it cheap. There have been many cases that have been blamed on JPMorgan, and among them are those as forex market manipulator before. And I'm sure, with their statement on bitcoin now, that is part of their second manipulation.

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 21, 2019, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: SquallLeonhart on September 21, 2019, 02:07:13 PM

They don't sit and take out time to research Bitcoin, rather they just jump out from nowhere to start calling it a scam. Well, I do understand that they all did that because Bitcoin is too volatile so they thought that it must have been a scam. But the mistake they made was that they didn't take their time to research about the coin. It would have been better if they stayed mute than trashing it publicly and doing the opposite in private.

Actually, they did do research. When Jamie Dimon called Bitcoin a fraud and threatened to fire every employee if they ended up dealing with Bitcoin, a European subsidiary of JPMorgan was one of the largest buyers of Bitcoin at that moment in time. These financial institutions know more about Bitcoin than most people here do, so don't underestimate them.

JPMorgan is known to manipulate markets not only through words by calling it shit or that something can't work, but by actually being active in that market. They're just trying to make people panic sell. Don't feed these whales. As always, don't look at what they say, but look at what they do; they're buying Bitcoin yet calling it a fraud. Makes sense right? Roll Eyes

Yes, these people are definitely not stupid, and, indeed, they did their research. Stupid are those who believe them when they call something a fraud, a bubble or whatever to buy as much as they can at low price. There are manipulators and those who are manipulated. The former make big money, while the latter stay poor, believing what manipulators tell them to believe.

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 21, 2019, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: SquallLeonhart on September 21, 2019, 02:07:13 PM

They don't sit and take out time to research Bitcoin, rather they just jump out from nowhere to start calling it a scam. Well, I do understand that they all did that because Bitcoin is too volatile so they thought that it must have been a scam. But the mistake they made was that they didn't take their time to research about the coin. It would have been better if they stayed mute than trashing it publicly and doing the opposite in private.

Actually, they did do research. When Jamie Dimon called Bitcoin a fraud and threatened to fire every employee if they ended up dealing with Bitcoin, a European subsidiary of JPMorgan was one of the largest buyers of Bitcoin at that moment in time. These financial institutions know more about Bitcoin than most people here do, so don't underestimate them.

JPMorgan is known to manipulate markets not only through words by calling it shit or that something can't work, but by actually being active in that market. They're just trying to make people panic sell. Don't feed these whales. As always, don't look at what they say, but look at what they do; they're buying Bitcoin yet calling it a fraud. Makes sense right? Roll Eyes

Casual thing on making up some FUDs just for them to have the opportunity to buy up cheaper coins.I agree that they are more knowledgeable than on most people
and its a dumb thing to think on that they arent that lowkeys not to make any research on anything that they do interest or attack in.Usually these kind of big institutions/companies/investors/whales etc. would always act oppositely on what they are trying to do.They wont obviously praise out bitcoin and they do accumulate as much as they can.
Main priority here is to make profits on having an entry as lowest price as possible.They arent really that numb nor too careless yet these fellas are way too wise and tricky when it comes to making money.

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Quote from: SquallLeonhart on September 21, 2019, 02:07:13 PM

They don't sit and take out time to research Bitcoin, rather they just jump out from nowhere to start calling it a scam. Well, I do understand that they all did that because Bitcoin is too volatile so they thought that it must have been a scam. But the mistake they made was that they didn't take their time to research about the coin. It would have been better if they stayed mute than trashing it publicly and doing the opposite in private.

Actually, they did do research. When Jamie Dimon called Bitcoin a fraud and threatened to fire every employee if they ended up dealing with Bitcoin, a European subsidiary of JPMorgan was one of the largest buyers of Bitcoin at that moment in time. These financial institutions know more about Bitcoin than most people here do, so don't underestimate them.

JPMorgan is known to manipulate markets not only through words by calling it shit or that something can't work, but by actually being active in that market. They're just trying to make people panic sell. Don't feed these whales. As always, don't look at what they say, but look at what they do; they're buying Bitcoin yet calling it a fraud. Makes sense right? Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

The company accused Bitcoin for market manipulation and they said a lot of things against Bitcoin, and later it was discovered that they are also investing in Bitcoin. As if that was not enough , they also created their own JP Morgan coin, so this is not a surprise. If they are accused of this, then it is true. These people can do just anything for money. Most of them that says rubbish about Bitcoin are the ones that are even doing something worse. Funny thing is that at the end you see them investing in the same asset they were bad mouthing.

Quote from: jossiel on September 17, 2019, 09:03:19 PM

Who can't remember that famous word from Jamie Dimon whom said that bitcoin is a fraud? Then things have turned suddenly and took his words because there were reports that him and his company silently collecting bitcoin.
bitcoin.

Lol, I remember that. People like to say what they don't know. They don't sit and take out time to research Bitcoin, rather they just jump out from nowhere to start calling it a scam. Well, I do understand that they all did that because Bitcoin is too volatile so they thought that it must have been a scam. But the mistake they made was that they didn't take their time to research about the coin. It would have been better if they stayed mute than trashing it publicly and doing the opposite in private.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation, Again!

Quote

The U.S. Department of Justice has charged top managers at JPMorgan Chase of market manipulation, Reuters reports. For the better part of a decade, according to DoJ charges, traders Gregg Smith, Michael Nowak and Christopher Jordan allegedly manipulated prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures on the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges. JPMorgan Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation

The individuals under indictment hold high-profile roles at JPMorgan Chase & Co. Smith is an executive director and trader on the precious metals desk, while Nowak runs the entire desk as a managing director. Both are still employed at JPMorgan, though they were suspended in light of the indictment.

Jordan left JPMorgan in 2009 but continued to trade precious metals with in other firms.

The trio is accused of spoofing, a practice where the trader places bids to buy or sell contracts which are canceled before execution, allowing them to influence prices to their benefit. The scale involved was massive, with prosecutors alleging that they were conducting thousands of unlawful trading actions while layering orders in rapid succession.

https://thecoinrise.com/bitcoin-is-still-bad-jpmorgan-chase-traders-accused-of-market-manipulation-again/

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Well, if there is some kind of manipulation it is through the media, and I am sure that JP Morgan has a lot of power over the media.

Sometimes, JP Morgan's claims may be for many if it has an impact on the market, but those who really believe in Bitcoin and the Crypto market in general will not consider what they think. JP Morgan has its banking organization worldwide, when JP Morgan speaks badly about Bitcoin it will not be relevant to the market, however, they are recently using and implementing blockchain technology in their banks to generate confirmations that when compared to user data , bank transfers and other operations are achieved in seconds and do not take days as commonly occurs, so they are not totally disconnected from technology, they take these indications into account because they cannot be left behind in traditional systems that, compared to blockchain , are obsolete. In fact, this service was recently implemented in 6 banks in Mexico.

bitgolden

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I wonder how many times people have manipulated the crypto market as well? I mean here we are sitting on high horse talking about how financial Goliaths are doing this but we are here at small timers (180 billion market cap versus trillions of dollars in financial market) and we still have manipulation from the whales.

Sad part about it is that we do not have law enforcement on our side as well so people who did bad stuff at JPMorgan got jailed and found guilty but here in bitcoin world people who are wealthy and rich can do whatever they want and there is nothing that can stop them. The decentralized and unregulated approach of bitcoin does bring in amazing stuff but sometimes it does hurt itself as well, it is a price we have to pay but we should not point fingers to others in that case.

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when financial experts make bad judgments about bitcoin, that's when they want some traders to believe in them and sell off bitcoin so they don't suffer a loss, from which those financial experts will start buying Bitcoin. with cheap price. Shortly thereafter, they pumped bitcoins slightly and later resold when prices went up.
Here is the strategy that the sharks are often used to manipulate profitable for them, beware!

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 20, 2019, 05:04:56 PM

I wouldn't say that they are above the law though. What happened is that people still put their money on those big companies even though it has a shady past.

They're definitely not above the law, to put it like that, but they understand the laws within the borders they operate, and they know that the penalties that are subjected to won't affect their profits at all.

As for people still using that bank, I don't see much of a problem with it. If you dig deep enough, you can fault every single wall street bank and blame them for participating in the same shady activities. They're all on the same level.

What is the alternative for these people? There is none because they need these banks. Bitcoin isn't the solution to this problem because it by far doesn't enjoy enough adoption and its price is still too volatile.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin is still bad, when was the time to come that bitcoin become powerful currency. Its really hard to wait for the price increase. But I don't lose hope l will wait for the price pump of bitcoin.That lm one of the millionaire's created by bitcoin. Its my only hope for the future of my kids to give them a better future.

What do you mean still bad? It's the people who uses Bitcoin in a very negative way that causes it to be deemed as 'bad' by authorities.

Quote from: davis196 on September 19, 2019, 01:16:17 AM

JPMorgan Chase is a giant.They are in the "too big to fail" category and their reputation won't suffer from those accusations.The JPMorgan Chase CEO will just blame the accused traders and the entire bank will go away clean from this s*it.
Privileged banks like JPMorgan,Goldman Sachs,Citigroup,Bank or America,HSBC,etc. will continue to manipulate all markets(including the crypto market). They are above the law. Angry

I wouldn't say that they are above the law though. What happened is that people still put their money on those big companies even though it has a shady past.

Quote from: davinchi on September 20, 2019, 09:54:49 AM

Because, of that they get to do whatever they want, people could get arrested but the profits will stay. They are literally too big to fail, hopefully we will find a way to take them apart and make them smaller bunch of places instead of huge just one and that way we can close the smaller portions of it but until then they will do these manipulations whenever they want without fear.

DOJ has set a precedent here, they exposed JP Morgan, I think this is because it involves precious metals wherein the government has also a investment (Gold). So I think even they are big, if they go against the government sooner or later they will go down hard.

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Nobody really thinks banks or these type of "investment" banks are doing things legally or helping anyone. The problem with them is that these guys built such a huge market for themselves that if they go bankrupt then the whole world will have huge troubles, I mean literally the whole world. Remember the 2008 time, Greece, Italy, Spain all had troubles not to mention all the smaller countries as well.

If let places like JP Morgan and other places go bankrupt or try to undermine their power then those places will literally ruin the whole worlds finances.

Because, of that they get to do whatever they want, people could get arrested but the profits will stay. They are literally too big to fail, hopefully we will find a way to take them apart and make them smaller bunch of places instead of huge just one and that way we can close the smaller portions of it but until then they will do these manipulations whenever they want without fear.

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What goes up must come down, I knew that one day, JpMorgan will still be disgraced, and I already knew that all those things he has again bitcoin is just a way of manipulating the bitcoin for his own personal interest and one thing that I have seen is that it eventually backfire for them in the future as their past will even hunt them down.

Look at Facebook, see how they have condemn the cryptocurrency projects in the past using the platform they ought to have used to promote ICO to halt it, and now, they want to also come into the cryptocurrency space also, which I think that they were just following the step of JpMorgan also because they had their own hidden agenda of this Libra coin, now everyone is against them as they are against JpMorgan too.

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This is not just happening at JP Morgan, there are many other big banks in the world that are heading to Bitcoin. they form a group to manipulate the market, they are the ones who make big pump and dump over the past few days.
So, don't be surprised that millions of Bitcoin wallets are active right now.

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I think JP Morgan from some time ago has provided a number of statements that try to manipulate the price movements of cryptocurrency, for long time traders who already know and already know how the nature of JP Morgan is not too surprised by the statement of JP Morgan.

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JPMorgan Chase is a giant.They are in the "too big to fail" category and their reputation won't suffer from those accusations.The JPMorgan Chase CEO will just blame the accused traders and the entire bank will go away clean from this s*it.
Privileged banks like JPMorgan,Goldman Sachs,Citigroup,Bank or America,HSBC,etc. will continue to manipulate all markets(including the crypto market). They are above the law. Angry

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Quote from: jossiel on September 17, 2019, 09:03:19 PM

Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Who can't remember that famous word from Jamie Dimon whom said that bitcoin is a fraud? Then things have turned suddenly and took his words because there were reports that him and his company silently collecting bitcoin.

They really are into manipulation.

They already have seen the potential of bitcoin and IIRC, they even gave a warning to their employees that reported to be trading bitcoin.

As expected for these big players to be manipulators.We have seen many circumstances on how they do try to dump the market and been bust up
that they are accumulating on the bottom.Pretty wise move but it wont work anymore yet majority now is already numb on what are the possible things
that they might announce ahead. Bitcoin is fraud,volatile, used on illegal things are just common names tagged up with BTC but actually these
people do know on whats the potential of it.

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 18, 2019, 05:27:21 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

~
Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Unfortunately, it is very likely that most of them are still going to be holding the notion imposed on them by JPMorgan, because people are slow in changing their views, regardless of what happens. But, of course, the forward-thinking ones will turn their minds toward Bitcoin, and I too hope that it can be a significant number of people (and funds).

I really do hope that there are still investors who has that mindset, I mean bitcoin could give them better options.

@The Pharmacist - Yeah, same thoughts, heard so many conspiracy theory for years now, but this should be an eye opener for goldbugs. I guess every market will have some manipulators from behind, but it good to hear that at least DOJ has proof against some JP Morgan executives. So let's see how everything pans out.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor.

Based on that blurb in the OP, it looks like they were manipulating the metals markets--I'm sure the gold & silver bulls will have a field day with this, because they've been saying stuff like this has been happening for years. I always thought of it as some sort of conspiracy theory....but looks like they were right.

Anyway, there's nothing here that says JP Morgan is or was manipulating bitcoin, but I betcha that when Bakkt gets launched and firms like them can pour big money into crypto that they'll pull this same crap. They got caught here, but that never stops Wall Street from committing their crimes. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I'm even less a fan of JP Morgan and their ilk.

Quote from: beerlover on September 18, 2019, 10:25:33 AM

look at us in crypto world, we have a lot of scammers and manipulators and basically just bad shady people here as well.

This is true, but when a scammer has as much money and power as JP Morgan does, the scams end up doing a hell of a lot more damage. And if they're not into bitcoin right now, just wait until there's a futures market they can participate in. All hell will break loose eventually.

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There is no doubt that the world of finance is filled with these people, hell don't look at just them, look at us in crypto world, we have a lot of scammers and manipulators and basically just bad shady people here as well. Didn't we had a lot of "sorry we got hacked" and closed places here on our own?

We totally did and that is why we literally had to lose a lot of money and give up all of our money in multiple exchanges and even some "cloud" miners as well. That is why when it comes to money you should know that people will do whatever it takes to have more, you can have 1 thousand dollars and will want another thousand, you may have 1 billion dollars and for sure you will want another billion with it. There is no way to stop peoples greed to want more and more money.

1Referee

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It's not really surprising to be honest, and while we are focusing on JPMorgan as largest financial institution in the world, the others (e.g. Bank of America, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs) also allow this to happen, just not on a scale as big as JPMorgan operates.

I'm pretty certain that if they didn't collectively manipulate the Gold market and flood the market with naked shorts, it would be like $5000 an ounce pretty easily. In that regard, we should be happy that there (for now at least) aren't many CME like platforms allowing you to short Bitcoin without actually owning it.

Also important to point out is that governments are well aware of this manipulation, which they obviously don't mind considering that their plan is to hoard as much Gold as possible in the forthcoming years. A relatively lower price for them is actually a good thing.

Betwrong

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

~
Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Unfortunately, it is very likely that most of them are still going to be holding the notion imposed on them by JPMorgan, because people are slow in changing their views, regardless of what happens. But, of course, the forward-thinking ones will turn their minds toward Bitcoin, and I too hope that it can be a significant number of people (and funds).

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Quote from: jossiel on September 17, 2019, 09:03:19 PM

Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Who can't remember that famous word from Jamie Dimon whom said that bitcoin is a fraud? Then things have turned suddenly and took his words because there were reports that him and his company silently collecting bitcoin.

They really are into manipulation.

They already have seen the potential of bitcoin and IIRC, they even gave a warning to their employees that reported to be trading bitcoin.

He is a hypocrite willing to lose his credibility and was afraid and insecure that Bitcoin 's inherent features like transparency and

immutability would bring end to their glory days of committing financial fraud. I'm sure Bitcoin has been vindicated once again

and its getting more resilient amidst the onslaught of fud directed towards it.

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Quote from: jossiel on September 17, 2019, 09:03:19 PM

Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Who can't remember that famous word from Jamie Dimon whom said that bitcoin is a fraud? Then things have turned suddenly and took his words because there were reports that him and his company silently collecting bitcoin.

They really are into manipulation.

They already have seen the potential of bitcoin and IIRC, they even gave a warning to their employees that reported to be trading bitcoin.

Right, for those who have been in the market in 2017, we have seen how Jamie Dimon calling bitcoin a "fraud", but someone exposes them as secretly buying bitcoin in huge amount and then dumping them when the price goes up in the next couple of weeks or months.

I'm not surprise by the findings by the Department of Justice though, very sketchy and shady people who still run the business and into everything including bitcoin and precious metals to manipulate the price and take millions if not billions of profits anytime of the day.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Who can't remember that famous word from Jamie Dimon whom said that bitcoin is a fraud? Then things have turned suddenly and took his words because there were reports that him and his company silently collecting bitcoin.

They really are into manipulation.

They already have seen the potential of bitcoin and IIRC, they even gave a warning to their employees that reported to be trading bitcoin.

Kemarit

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Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation, Again!

Quote

The U.S. Department of Justice has charged top managers at JPMorgan Chase of market manipulation, Reuters reports. For the better part of a decade, according to DoJ charges, traders Gregg Smith, Michael Nowak and Christopher Jordan allegedly manipulated prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures on the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges. JPMorgan Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation

The individuals under indictment hold high-profile roles at JPMorgan Chase & Co. Smith is an executive director and trader on the precious metals desk, while Nowak runs the entire desk as a managing director. Both are still employed at JPMorgan, though they were suspended in light of the indictment.

Jordan left JPMorgan in 2009 but continued to trade precious metals with in other firms.

The trio is accused of spoofing, a practice where the trader places bids to buy or sell contracts which are canceled before execution, allowing them to influence prices to their benefit. The scale involved was massive, with prosecutors alleging that they were conducting thousands of unlawful trading actions while layering orders in rapid succession.

https://thecoinrise.com/bitcoin-is-still-bad-jpmorgan-chase-traders-accused-of-market-manipulation-again/

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Topic: Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation (Read 588 times)