Bitcoin mentioned in the 2011 TRACFIN report (FRANCE, AML)

davout

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1davout

Quote from: citboin on November 08, 2012, 01:41:01 AM

So... Does this mean that a bitcoin exchange would be legal in France?

Tracfin just observes the money laudndering trends and practices and investigates on the suspicion notices of banks or PSPs.
It doesn't really make any statement regarding the legality of a Bitcoin exchange.

citboin

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So... Does this mean that a bitcoin exchange would be legal in France?

labestiol

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Thanks for clarifying MagicalTux. And sorry for the poor translation Embarrassed

Quote from: MagicalTux on August 27, 2012, 11:15:58 PM

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mais également parce qu’il détient des informations fiables indiquant que certains expéditeurs se sont récemment convertis à l’islam.

It is also interesting to see that TracFin considers that if someone sending funds recently converted to Islam, they are highly suspicious, and it makes the recipient even more suspicious too...

This is crazy. Don't even know how this can be legal...

Anyway thanks for what you're doing, all the best for legal procedure

davout

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Intéressant...

repentance

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Quote from: MagicalTux on August 27, 2012, 11:27:38 PM

Quote from: labestiol on August 24, 2012, 04:04:01 PM

no legal value (p23).

Actually not "no legal value" but "not a legal tender". That doesn't mean Bitcoin has no value, but that it doesn't fit in the law as a currency.

I thought it might be that. Thanks for clarifying.

MagicalTux

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Quote from: labestiol on August 24, 2012, 04:04:01 PM

no legal value (p23).

Actually not "no legal value" but "not a legal tender". That doesn't mean Bitcoin has no value, but that it doesn't fit in the law as a currency.

repentance

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That's kind of interesting. We knew that the original ruling related to "acting as a banker", which didn't really require any determination at all about the nature of Bitcoin. "No legal value" is a bit vague, though and I'd be interested to see that expanded on.

MagicalTux

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Just to provide some more info, without stepping too much as this matter is not legally settled.

This is however indeed us mentioned in there. Maybe this will help a bit the Bitcoin community to understand what kind of issue we are encountering.

They also list us as being part of the "Dollar zone" while it would be more just to say we are part of the Yen zone, but still it's outside of Europe, so mostly irrelevant.

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mais également parce qu’il détient des informations fiables indiquant que certains expéditeurs se sont récemment convertis à l’islam.

It is also interesting to see that TracFin considers that if someone sending funds recently converted to Islam, they are highly suspicious, and it makes the recipient even more suspicious too...

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

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Bitcoin is a virtual currency, which may be qualified as "viral" (bitcoins duplicate automatically)

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Le Durr, Bitcoin is magical internet money. It flows through the tubes under the control of a pirate who lives on the moon. Le Hurr.

LOL, it's cute when the Money Nazis at Tracfin try to understand new concepts.

The Rothchilds are too cheap to hire people with a brain to do their dirty work of kneecapping anything/anyone that threatens the established bankster industry's monopoly on financial transactions. Therefore, lulz.

SgtSpike

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Good catch - it does indeed sound like a reference to MtGox's debacle.

labestiol

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Rapport TRACFIN 2011 (Traitement du renseignement et action contre les circuits financier clandestins)
Basically TRACFIN is a commission dealing with AML.

First, for a good laugh, let me translate the introduction to bitcoin (p21) :

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Bitcoin is a virtual currency, which may be qualified as "viral" (bitcoins duplicate automatically)

What is more intriguing is the example case they talk about : Illegal activity as a banker using a virtual currency ~~with no legal value~~ not being a legal tender (p23).

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TRACFIN attention was drawn in June 2011 by company A activity. This company is used as an intermediary inside euro area for bitcoin trading by the company B, located in the country X. [...]
During a period of 3 months, more than 3000 transactions have been recorded for amount around 2.4M€ in deposits, and 1M€ in withdraws. The deposits (corresponding to bitcoin buying) could be up to 30k€ per transaction, and some people could to several transactions on the same day

From the date and the amounts, looks a lot like MtGox, when they still had their account in France. They don't have it anymore, but I don't recall hearing about them being accused of "Illegal activity as a banker using a virtual currency with no legal value." (exercice illégal de la profession de banquier avec une monnaie virtuelle n’ayant pas cours légal)

Topic: Bitcoin mentioned in the 2011 TRACFIN report (FRANCE, AML) (Read 2290 times)