Bitcoin Mine Cooling Options - What are my choices?

YuginKadoya

legendary

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For me the Water Chiller / CRAC

Data Center cooling system with a water-to-water chiller combined with a Free-Cooling kit and an external DryCooler.
The chilled water ring provides cooling capacity to the CRAC units and recovers the heat rejected by the computers by a multifunction heat pump.
A small server room is refrigerated by a split DX unit and a monobloc telecom unit is outdoor mounted to a shelter.

Well thinking about the amount of budget you need I suggested this as not for newbies in bitcoin mining because it will
cause a lot of money! but if your a rich kid why not. Roll Eyes

notlist3d

legendary

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Quote from: rikudou on September 22, 2015, 07:44:18 PM

Maybe,
This Picture PC

Water Cooled Version Can be, Mining Hardware.

But the number of the device and Coolant could cost

The only one made in big quantities was C1. Yes that bitcrane I think it was had a few but nothing like C1 on amount. Most wont be able to do water cooled. They will be air cooled.

To get through summer I used a lot of CFM's to push the air, and a very nice exhaust. It worked fine for me all summer. If you are lucky you can use evaporation cooling, if the right climate. Evaporation cooling is cheapest as far as running.

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: Stellarsjay on September 29, 2015, 06:03:20 PM

Would you consider a hybrid greenhouse/bitcoin mining for the fall-spring a novel idea to maintain higher temps? Any idea of a simple solution to keep it happy for both? I think it is what I want to do and I would be happy if another did it and posted photos too......if it works

I imagine just small like 5 or 10 S7 Ants.

For that little, you likely have many options. For massive heat loads, your temps can rise so fast that is becomes a serious issue. The recommended method is what the traditional data-centers do that use Evap, they have backup DX cooling ready then the Evap is unusable. Take in mind, I come from a service providers mindset so that has different challenges for a single miner and their mine but once they get over 1-200 Kws, they really need to be thinking about this too because of their investment.

-D

Stellarsjay

newbie

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Would you consider a hybrid greenhouse/bitcoin mining for the fall-spring a novel idea to maintain higher temps? Any idea of a simple solution to keep it happy for both? I think it is what I want to do and I would be happy if another did it and posted photos too......if it works

I imagine just small like 5 or 10 S7 Ants.

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Dalkore on September 29, 2015, 05:11:41 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: coinbeast on September 25, 2015, 08:13:33 AM

The best article yet on bitcoin specific cooling.

Thanks especially for addressing the evaporative cooling aspect as I think many people do not understand that this method of cooling is deadly once outside humidity approaches 80% (It doesn't work)

A very well thought out and informative thread.

Cheers! I wish you wrote this earlier

At 80% humidity, I would say evaporative cooling is 99% useless (unless you are using the fans in the cooler as simply extra fans to move air). To do much of anything the humidity needs to be about 30% (or ideally 15%). Just look at a psychometric chart and you can see exactly at what temp and humidity you can get down to. However, this is with an 100% effective cooler which isn't going to happen, so take about 75% of the distance to the wet bulb.

The great thing about evaporative cooling (and no one talks about) is that the warmer it gets, the lower the humidity will be, and therefore the better the evaporative cooler works. For every 1 degree rise outside I only get something like a 0.2 degree rise inside. Overall, temp changes every day are probably the biggest killer of equipment (long term) and evaporative coolers really average out the day and night temps to 1 pretty constant temp all of the time. I have about 40 degree differences between day and night temps (during the summer) and with evaporative coolers it makes it only about a 8 ~ 10 degree change. You could do some type of compression cooling to get that last 8 ~ 10 degree change down to 0 change, but it isn't necessary. The temperature changes have an exponential nature, so 8 ~ 10 degree changes are about 1000th the amount of damage of 40 degree changes.

Thank you for the input and yes the higher temperatures mean higher efficiency. The problem is that people try and only use that is hot climates and then you are betting that you wont have any hot overcast days that will raise the humidity. This happened at another hosting provider over the summer and it was pretty bad. That is why I accept less profits and invest in DX cooling to make sure I can run 24/7/365. Fans and Evap can only do so much in a desert.

Sure, I agree that if you are in heavy humidity, that will make evap useless. My first sentence above agrees with that 100%.

Maybe I am wrong, I thought you were in central WA? Central WA is rated the same climate as New Mexico and about half of Arizona (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_United_States#/media/File:Climatemapusa2.PNG). This makes it essentially a desert. Evap coolers are ideal in the desert.

Are you talking about ASICSpace? Their problem certainly wasn't humidity. I have been to their location a number of times and am very familiar with their problems. Jonathan (toom.im) has talked at length about what their problems are and I would say he is 110% correct. Or were you talking about a different provider?

Yes I am in Central Washington and we had a number of high humidity days, mostly because of the on-shore flow that makes it over the Cascades in the form of clouds.

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: coinbeast on September 25, 2015, 08:13:33 AM

The best article yet on bitcoin specific cooling.

Thanks especially for addressing the evaporative cooling aspect as I think many people do not understand that this method of cooling is deadly once outside humidity approaches 80% (It doesn't work)

A very well thought out and informative thread.

Cheers! I wish you wrote this earlier

At 80% humidity, I would say evaporative cooling is 99% useless (unless you are using the fans in the cooler as simply extra fans to move air). To do much of anything the humidity needs to be about 30% (or ideally 15%). Just look at a psychometric chart and you can see exactly at what temp and humidity you can get down to. However, this is with an 100% effective cooler which isn't going to happen, so take about 75% of the distance to the wet bulb.

The great thing about evaporative cooling (and no one talks about) is that the warmer it gets, the lower the humidity will be, and therefore the better the evaporative cooler works. For every 1 degree rise outside I only get something like a 0.2 degree rise inside. Overall, temp changes every day are probably the biggest killer of equipment (long term) and evaporative coolers really average out the day and night temps to 1 pretty constant temp all of the time. I have about 40 degree differences between day and night temps (during the summer) and with evaporative coolers it makes it only about a 8 ~ 10 degree change. You could do some type of compression cooling to get that last 8 ~ 10 degree change down to 0 change, but it isn't necessary. The temperature changes have an exponential nature, so 8 ~ 10 degree changes are about 1000th the amount of damage of 40 degree changes.

Thank you for the input and yes the higher temperatures mean higher efficiency. The problem is that people try and only use that is hot climates and then you are betting that you wont have any hot overcast days that will raise the humidity. This happened at another hosting provider over the summer and it was pretty bad. That is why I accept less profits and invest in DX cooling to make sure I can run 24/7/365. Fans and Evap can only do so much in a desert.

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: coinbeast on September 25, 2015, 08:13:33 AM

The best article yet on bitcoin specific cooling.

Thanks especially for addressing the evaporative cooling aspect as I think many people do not understand that this method of cooling is deadly once outside humidity approaches 80% (It doesn't work)

A very well thought out and informative thread.

Cheers! I wish you wrote this earlier

Thank you for the kind words. Yes I agree, I wish I would of wrote this earlier to help people out. Do you have a suggestion for what you would like me to write about?

coinbeast

member

Activity: 68

Merit: 10

The best article yet on bitcoin specific cooling.

Thanks especially for addressing the evaporative cooling aspect as I think many people do not understand that this method of cooling is deadly once outside humidity approaches 80% (It doesn't work)

A very well thought out and informative thread.

Cheers! I wish you wrote this earlier

Betwrong

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 2246

🌀 Cosmic Casino

Quote from: Dalkore on September 06, 2015, 03:42:39 PM

Quote from: mudiko on August 26, 2015, 02:44:30 PM

Quote from: GriffinHeart on August 17, 2015, 02:10:51 PM

I'll just hire 10 asians to blow on the miners as they go.
10/10 would asian labour again.

What a racist

I believe he was joking.

Of course he was. But the joke is not very nice still.

EDIT: Thanks fro sharing the article btw. I think Direct Air Cooling is a good choice but you'll need a good filtering solution as they say and that's right.

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: rikudou on September 22, 2015, 07:44:18 PM

Maybe,
This Picture PC

Water Cooled Version Can be, Mining Hardware.

But the number of the device and Coolant could cost

Closed-loop liquid cooling is the way to go and the price is really coming down. Many mining units have used these already. We have a number of them laying around from an old farm.

rikudou

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Alenktrik Teknikeri

Maybe,
This Picture PC

Water Cooled Version Can be, Mining Hardware.

But the number of the device and Coolant could cost

LimitedDev

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

I just use some big household fans and they work just fine.

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: mudiko on August 26, 2015, 02:44:30 PM

Quote from: GriffinHeart on August 17, 2015, 02:10:51 PM

I'll just hire 10 asians to blow on the miners as they go.
10/10 would asian labour again.

What a racist

I believe he was joking.

mudiko

sr. member

Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Quote from: GriffinHeart on August 17, 2015, 02:10:51 PM

I'll just hire 10 asians to blow on the miners as they go.
10/10 would asian labour again.

What a racist

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: trendax on August 18, 2015, 05:55:09 AM

Hmm I think the link is dead but it might could be my bad timing. Please check and update. In regards to your comments about immersion being the most expensive, did you mean submersion or 2 phase immersion cooling techniques from Allied Control? Also given Bitfury's recent acquisition of Allied Control, I'm eager to see how this concept is adapted to such an extreme scale to meet Bitfury's super datacenter requirements. I imagine it will put the proof of concept design built with ASICMiner a few years ago really to shame.

Fixed.

Immersion Cooling - Most expensive option overall at this point because there is not scale in the production of immersion cooling tanks and supplies. I was referring to Allied Control's setup being that mineral oil is not fun to work with. Allied Control uses a liquid that is not oil based and it much easier to work with the clean up. ASICMiner was using Gen 1 of Allied Control. They are the leader in this new area. Over time the cost will come down. We are looking to invest in it within the next 2-4 years.

trendax

full member

Activity: 124

Merit: 100

Hmm I think the link is dead but it might could be my bad timing. Please check and update. In regards to your comments about immersion being the most expensive, did you mean submersion or 2 phase immersion cooling techniques from Allied Control? Also given Bitfury's recent acquisition of Allied Control, I'm eager to see how this concept is adapted to such an extreme scale to meet Bitfury's super datacenter requirements. I imagine it will put the proof of concept design built with ASICMiner a few years ago really to shame.

GriffinHeart

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Hello there!

I'll just hire 10 asians to blow on the miners as they go.
10/10 would asian labour again.

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: gallery2000 on August 13, 2015, 12:24:15 PM

Very nice reading. I like to know the costs for each option.

Is immersion cooling the most expensive?

Direct Air will be your cheapest option but least reliable overall because you are at the mercy of the outside weather. Next is standard DX cooling up to 20 tons. Then I would say evaporative (done right) then water chillers. Immersion is the most expensive unless you are doing a large farm, then I think there may be a case for it. I can see were it may be more cost effective doing immersion over many large water chilling HVAC systems.

gallery2000

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Live Stars - Adult Streaming Platform

Very nice reading. I like to know the costs for each option.

Is immersion cooling the most expensive?

Dalkore

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1026

Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Miners,

I am starting a series of articles shedding light into some of the challenges we have faced running large Bitcoin mines. I am trying to publish 3 a week until I run out of subjects. Here is my latest, hope you enjoy.

Link: http://bitcoinasichosting.com/blog/categories/mining-roundtable/item/260-bitcoin-mine-cooling-options-what-are-my-choices

-Dalkore

Topic: Bitcoin Mine Cooling Options - What are my choices? (Read 2826 times)