Bitcoin Mini bull run or short Squeeze (manipulation) ?

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Quote from: TimeTeller on January 23, 2023, 11:59:53 AM

And what is the reason why they will manipulate the market? I am more on the mini bull run on this market.
Manipulating this market requires a lot of money, even a small movement requires big amount of money.
And I don't think there's advantage of doing so if someone or group of whales decided to make a dent in the market.
It has long been known that manipulation in btc market is quite hard to do. Why not accept the fact that it is high time to experience such bullish period?
I am more on the natural increase of btc after few months of bearish period. People are getting good vibes around this market.

I'm just not sure why you don't know why whales are manipulating the markets with their bitcoin holdings and financial power after you've been here since 2015.

Whales can do whatever they want and create momentary panic by moving million of dollar of bitcoin from their wallets to exchange. What were the consequences? they buy more on the dips and sacrifice few million dollars to buy so FOMO is created before they sell anything else gradually without you even noticing.

I just don't want to say that every bullshit is process of whale manipulation, but they are there for the purpose of profit regardless of how much money they spend trying to get the market going in any direction.

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Quote from: Fullcoinese on January 22, 2023, 11:25:47 AM

Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

The pump that occurs is quite powerful. after all, if you want to manipulate as you say, it is clear that it will use quite a large amount of funds to manipulate Bitcoin prices.
we still don't know if this is a trap or if it will continue in the next pump. it is clear that now his condition is quite stable. and the situation is like when the price went from $17k and pumped to $20k, and in a short time, it rose to $23k.
some analysts say it won't last long as a correction is imminent. but we may see another pump taking it to the next level.

Powerful because it managed to climb up to $23k plus for a short period of time but not as powerful to break those harder areas that we haven't reached yet since last year. Bitcoin is decentralized and it was the largest crypto so manipulating it will be a pain in the ass therefore I don't think the recent increase is due to manipulations but there are certain positive news that pops up last time so that maybe the reason of this mini bull run that we are seeing now.

It is not also a trap but trap can be associated with whales manipulations but corrections could be felt a long the way so we need to watch out for this if our goal is either to short sell or to buy.

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Quote from: _BlackStar on January 23, 2023, 10:14:49 AM

Quote from: stadus on January 23, 2023, 03:57:36 AM

I've never seen there is manipulation happen to Bitcoin, the whales are too silent this time - I consider those pumps natural.
I don't really think manipulations can be effective in a decentralized coin like Bitcoin, It probably works for altcoins. Might some whales are trying to do that but I'm very certain that they will just fail.

Whales can't manipulate bitcoin, but they can manipulate its price and turn the market red or green.
You can also manipulate prices if you have big budget, but you also have to be sure that it won't prevent you from losing money.

The pump that occurred during January may or may not be considered natural, but actually $20K is price that seems more appropriate for bitcoin after hitting ATH of $69K in November 2021.

Quote from: stadus on January 23, 2023, 03:57:36 AM

We have to keep in mind that the price of Bitcoin will keep on moving up and down. Currently at $22,700, not that huge enough to think about bullish but at least, people have their chance to sell and earn a few bucks as a reward of waiting.

Selling now is fine as long as it's profitable, but I'd be inclined to wait and would hold it for a higher timeframe and price. This allows you to get more opportunities to enjoy bigger profits.

And what is the reason why they will manipulate the market? I am more on the mini bull run on this market.
Manipulating this market requires a lot of money, even a small movement requires big amount of money.
And I don't think there's advantage of doing so if someone or group of whales decided to make a dent in the market.
It has long been known that manipulation in btc market is quite hard to do. Why not accept the fact that it is high time to experience such bullish period?
I am more on the natural increase of btc after few months of bearish period. People are getting good vibes around this market.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

This is simply what happens when everyone is bearish. Personally I wouldn't say everyone was bearish, just the overwhelming majority.

Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

These aren't fundamentals, these are just news events. Excuses we can point to in order to help us understand a Bitcoin bear market.

Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

I don't remember any positive news back in April 2019 which marked the end of the bear market, but price went up regardless.

Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

I think it's simply because a Bitcoin bear market usually lasts approximately a year. The high was reached in November 2021 with the low in November 2022. There were many speculating that based on time the bear market was over and to me this is the reason that price has risen since the start of the year. Despite how bearish the price analysis looked, time-based analysis was always looking bullish.

I also think it's simply human psychology to want or need to have answers to events we don't understand, in this case Bitcoin's 50% increase in price. But often, there aren't simply answers, or otherwise the answer is staring us in the face we just don't want to accept them as they are too simplistic. Often we also want complex answers to relatively basic questions, when the answer itself can be quite simple.

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Quote from: stadus on January 23, 2023, 03:57:36 AM

I've never seen there is manipulation happen to Bitcoin, the whales are too silent this time - I consider those pumps natural.
I don't really think manipulations can be effective in a decentralized coin like Bitcoin, It probably works for altcoins. Might some whales are trying to do that but I'm very certain that they will just fail.

Whales can't manipulate bitcoin, but they can manipulate its price and turn the market red or green.
You can also manipulate prices if you have big budget, but you also have to be sure that it won't prevent you from losing money.

The pump that occurred during January may or may not be considered natural, but actually $20K is price that seems more appropriate for bitcoin after hitting ATH of $69K in November 2021.

Quote from: stadus on January 23, 2023, 03:57:36 AM

We have to keep in mind that the price of Bitcoin will keep on moving up and down. Currently at $22,700, not that huge enough to think about bullish but at least, people have their chance to sell and earn a few bucks as a reward of waiting.

Selling now is fine as long as it's profitable, but I'd be inclined to wait and would hold it for a higher timeframe and price. This allows you to get more opportunities to enjoy bigger profits.

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Quote from: stadus on January 23, 2023, 03:57:36 AM

Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

I've never seen there is manipulation happen to Bitcoin, the whales are too silent this time - I consider those pumps natural.
I don't really think manipulations can be effective in a decentralized coin like Bitcoin, It probably works for altcoins. Might some whales are trying to do that but I'm very certain that they will just fail.

We have to keep in mind that the price of Bitcoin will keep on moving up and down. Currently at $22,700, not that huge enough to think about bullish but at least, people have their chance to sell and earn a few bucks as a reward of waiting.

Bitcoin is decentralized, but bitcoin price is not decentralized, and with a market capitalization of just $400 billion, smaller than a tech business like Apple or Google, manipulation is easier than ever. It can be said that the bitcoin market is a manipulative market that does not follow any laws such as supply and demand. Maybe it won't be able to be manipulated when it gets bigger, but for now, it's just a shark's game.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

I've never seen there is manipulation happen to Bitcoin, the whales are too silent this time - I consider those pumps natural.
I don't really think manipulations can be effective in a decentralized coin like Bitcoin, It probably works for altcoins. Might some whales are trying to do that but I'm very certain that they will just fail.

We have to keep in mind that the price of Bitcoin will keep on moving up and down. Currently at $22,700, not that huge enough to think about bullish but at least, people have their chance to sell and earn a few bucks as a reward of waiting.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

Neither, remember pre-FTX, this is the price were we are, so just make sense that once whales, speculators, retail investors and others in the market have settled down already and that they are no longer affected, then the price will have to bounce back again to previous price.

So it might look like a mini bull run or bear trap, but that conditions is not met right now.

Now, we if go touch $25k-$30k in short span of time, then that might be a different story. So let's see if we are going to go that price or will see another sideways.

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It looks like the mini bull run situation is over for a while because the price is starting to decline, although it doesn't drop too deep. But that suffices to mention that the market is currently correcting and either this correction will continue to bring the price down further or will only take the price higher and could reach $25k.

I can't still tell where the market is going because it doesn't seem like the price is moving too fast and seems to be slowing down. And this is where we have to be careful because there is a possibility that discharge will come again and that pumping can also occur.

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Quote from: dansus021 on January 22, 2023, 10:05:26 PM

what are you saying is all possible but I would describe this as a mini bull run too. if you are looking at the weekly candles you will notice that the price might be in the oversold area this might be a correction and squeeze out short traders.

apparently there is no much good news out there except chapter 11 and laid off of big tech sector we need wait and see in my opinion if bitcoin could handle stay above 20K for couple of week we safe

The recent upward move in Bitcoin price, despite only positive news being the recovery from the collapse of FTX, is not believed to be manipulation. It is hoped that Bitcoin will maintain its position above the 200-day moving average of around 19,600 for several weeks, as this could indicate a period of stability and increase the likelihood of breaking the next significant resistance level of 25,000. The monetary policy announcement on January 21st is a crucial event that will determine the future direction of the market, and we will have to wait & see what happens.

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Quote from: Falconer on January 22, 2023, 10:35:11 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 22, 2023, 02:51:52 AM

It is tough to say but it is clear that $16k was way below the intrinsic value of bitcoin whether you want to compute it based on the cost of mining which some people do or based on the historical price movements where $20k was the last bubble's peak we saw back in 2017 and price never goes below it. Not to mention with all the adoption we had price had to have gone up not go down. But when a lot of bitcoin is unloaded on a small market with thinned order books, the price tends to go below the intrinsic value very easily.

I agree that $15K is not worth it for bitcoin given the increasingly expensive mining fees. Bitcoin has never dipped and traded below last ATH (at 2017) and $20K and above should be decent value for it. But I can't really be sure what caused bitcoin to break the habit, and now I think it's good to expect bitcoin to retain $20K to its price.

Anything can happen, and habits can still be changed is not too surprising. Bitcoin is still a manipulated market, while players like us get smarter, the market needs to become more unpredictable as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are any major fluctuations in 2023.

If talking about the real value of bitcoin with what it can bring, then $ 100k is still not its true value, bitcoin deserves a much higher value like that. But since everything is still in development, being manipulated is unstoppable.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

This is how I feel, quite frankly I was one of the people who expected the drop to continue and I did not expect that we would see a rally anytime soon so I am a bit surprised.

All indications and data were indicating that we did not finish the bearish market, but this rise occurred, perhaps there is manipulation by whales, or there may be some incomprehensible reasons.

In any case, the rise occurred, and we are now facing two possibilities: a negative one, if it breaks $20,200, which will lead to a correction, and a positive one, if it manages to surpass $23,300, which will continue the rise.

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what are you saying is all possible but I would describe this as a mini bull run too. if you are looking at the weekly candles you will notice that the price might be in the oversold area this might be a correction and squeeze out short traders.

apparently there is no much good news out there except chapter 11 and laid off of big tech sector we need wait and see in my opinion if bitcoin could handle stay above 20K for couple of week we safe

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

Nobody knows what's going on in the market, and I hear a lot of mixed opinions. But if you ask about my thoughts, I believe this is a manipulation, price trap of the market, so I would be more careful at this point than feeling overly optimistic about an upcoming bullish sign. Nonetheless, I still think that Bitcoin will go up to 25K-30K in the near future, I won't sell my bitcoin, with this profit still not big enough for me to sell my bitcoin.

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The Luna crash is an old story. The FTX crash was already priced in. The price when it crashed had plummeted to around $16,000 just when it was about to climb back to $20,000 and beyond, so it was already priced in also. Stable coins fund is not a big deal. So is the bankruptcy of Genesis. The bankruptcy of Genesis and even other platforms that have not declared their bankruptcy yet could have already been priced in also when the fall of FTX was acknowledged to be huge enough that it will definitely be causing a domino effect.

By the way, it's Genesis that went bankrupt, not Gemini.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

The moves in crypto market are often contrary to what generally market participants expect. This is how this market is, and it always comes with surprises. However, the current mini rally in crypto has some fundamental reasons behind it, such as, falling inflation rate and weakening dollar index. Additionally, market was in oversold position since long time and technical rebound was overdue. The continuation of current rally will depend on, next interest rate increase decision of FOMC, the meeting is scheduled to be held on 31st January.

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Quote from: bittraffic on January 22, 2023, 10:50:47 AM

Can't help but think of manipulation still. Even the chart today is really weird when I see this pump couldn't sustain anymore that it has to be dumped right now or the plunge will be harder. Suddenly the market goes further up instead.

So what I can say is that if this is manipulated, it would really go below $15K. The futures traders are not going to take the risk of whether to go long or short, they are probably waiting where this market will go.

Whether the price will fall down or continues to bounce is upto the market. To me, it id good growth for users who have been worrying about the market in the bearish trend. At these kind of market situation it is good to make some money than looking upon the charts and getting into some sort of confusion.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

I don't think it's a simple manipulation, but there can be some simple theories regarding this. Since we didn't have any confirmed positive signals from the market we cannot expect to see the bear market is over yet in the other hand we didn't have any good and positive fundamental signals so expecting to see a bull run is completely wrong atlest with the current situation. But I think it's just a correction to higher levels and after end of this correction we can expect to see the price even reaching lower prices.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Remember that saying that the majority is always wrong about the market? If it was different most people would be rich.
Analysts don't have a clue. They try to predict bitcoin's moves by looking at 2018 when the economy was different, bitcoin was different, we had no pandemic, no wars... The environment is different and you can't accurately predict what's going to happen.
All of them have their own agenda. Some will act bearish because they want the price to go down to buy cheaper. Some will act bullish because they want to pump the price so they can sell.

Quote

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

No. It's you that are looking at this with a bearish bias.
Luna did not have anything to do with bitcoin. It was a shitcoin scam and we're better off without it. It was never a bitcoin fundamental!

Quote

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

Again you're showing bearish bias. Bitcoin doesn't need good news to go up, just as it doesn't need bad news to go down. When we went from the ATH back to 50k there was no bearish news.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

Everything seemed too obvious, all the negativity implied further movement of the price of bitcoin down, and you are right there are no positive news, all, on the contrary, mostly negative news.

This is very similar to manipulative growth. I expected local growth, but I expected that it would be gradual, but in this case everything indicates that it was just a manipulation. This growth led to great liquidations, to large losses for traders.

But we also often hear that the market drives contrary to the expectations of the majority, and since most were waiting for a further fall, the market played against them.

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I think there is always a predisposition to understand that there is a why, when it comes to volatility in the essential link of what bitcoin means as an asset.

So in my case always! surfing with that wave (volatility), so sometimes I surf it with a rating of 10 pts other times zero. But in essence each wave is ever to learning although that does not always mean taking the perfect wave.
__
(Squeeze; slang of poker, it best use in that context) Wink

Fullcoinese

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

The pump that occurs is quite powerful. after all, if you want to manipulate as you say, it is clear that it will use quite a large amount of funds to manipulate Bitcoin prices.
we still don't know if this is a trap or if it will continue in the next pump. it is clear that now his condition is quite stable. and the situation is like when the price went from $17k and pumped to $20k, and in a short time, it rose to $23k.
some analysts say it won't last long as a correction is imminent. but we may see another pump taking it to the next level.

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Based on various news and analysis i was preparing to watch Bitcoin bearishness but that happen to turn bullish again. Although it is not surprising but lots of people get strange by the recent bitcoin movement. Although we all are waiting for that day of Bitcoin.

It's nothing new while all investors think one way, there are some whale investors who do the opposite. Bitcoin's sudden bearish turn has surprised me. It has been rising and falling between $21k-$23k for the last couple of days and there is no doubt that it will turn bullish again at any time. It is hard to say that it will not turn more bearish. Investors should keep it under observation for at least one more week before investing.

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Everyone? Really op? You clearly need to do more research. Many people did think that it would fall lower to the price range that you specified, but many people like me also expected it to bounce back as usual due to various reasons.

Also, the crypto market is manipulated in different directions majority of the time which is why manipulation isn't really such a big deal as long as BTC and other cryptocurrencies are moving upwards.

BTC will eventually go back down again, but it will rise back up too and history has proven that.

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Can't help but think of manipulation still. Even the chart today is really weird when I see this pump couldn't sustain anymore that it has to be dumped right now or the plunge will be harder. Suddenly the market goes further up instead.

So what I can say is that if this is manipulated, it would really go below $15K. The futures traders are not going to take the risk of whether to go long or short, they are probably waiting where this market will go.

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Hm, we can speculate a lot but what is more important is how are we prepared in the face of something that will happen to bitcoin after this? But a correction is happening again because the price has experienced a slight decline, and hopefully, that doesn't trigger the price to continue dropping. There is a possibility that the price will increase again, but we have to be patient because we don't know how long this condition will last in the market.

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It is a mini bull run with a contribution of short squeeze. Personally it is a mini bull run is similar to the mini bull run in 2019.

Manipulation is one factor of cryptocurrency market and you're right that short squeeze or mini bull run always has contribution from manipulation. If this mini bull run is strong, Bitcoin will be able to reclaim $28k or $30k before its pull back.

After a mini bull run, it will take a few months or half of a year for accumulation before 2024 bull run.

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 22, 2023, 02:51:52 AM

It is tough to say but it is clear that $16k was way below the intrinsic value of bitcoin whether you want to compute it based on the cost of mining which some people do or based on the historical price movements where $20k was the last bubble's peak we saw back in 2017 and price never goes below it. Not to mention with all the adoption we had price had to have gone up not go down. But when a lot of bitcoin is unloaded on a small market with thinned order books, the price tends to go below the intrinsic value very easily.

I agree that $15K is not worth it for bitcoin given the increasingly expensive mining fees. Bitcoin has never dipped and traded below last ATH (at 2017) and $20K and above should be decent value for it. But I can't really be sure what caused bitcoin to break the habit, and now I think it's good to expect bitcoin to retain $20K to its price.

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Quote from: un_rank on January 22, 2023, 01:17:51 AM

Could it be a correction of the price?

As you mentioned there have been positive news in the recent past which indirectly and loosely affected bitcoin and could have pushed the price now and now there is a retrace back to the more accurate valuation.

It could also be a mini bull run and the price keeps creeping up with the coming weeks.

- Jay -

It seems not if it is said as a price correction.
No one knows for sure what is the main factor causing the price of Bitcoin for now to have increased quite a lot.
Maybe it could be because there is positive news that spreads about Bitcoin so that large-scale adoption occurs, but large adoption also does not necessarily affect the price of bitcoin so that it rises so quickly and it is said that the increase is not small.
Surely many crypto experts have done research and research, but I myself have not heard or read anything definite.

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underlying value (cheapest on planet to acquire is $15k for 2022)
this is the off-market
(spot market is retail market, off market is the wholesale stuff line mining and OTC)

the price wanted to go up in december but was artificially held down in in december by whale walling the market to chew threw any orders trying to go above $17k
this was because whales had futures bets(other platform) that price would be under $17k and they wanted to keep the retail spot market below $17k to win
as soon as they got their win at new year they switched off the whale wall bot trader
there is another one temporarily at about $23.5k

basically
open free market wouls see a speculation of $15k to 90k in 2022. but was squeezed to a
$15k -$17k manipulated window in decemmber
and a $20k-$21.5k window start of january
and a $22k-$23.5k window of mid january

i expect the whales to continue to whale order control retail spot market into small windows in step-lock of 1-8 week lengths to be able to make futures bets of same period length.. rather then far wide window of high volatility

EG
    /^~~~ ^~~~\    |\ /\
/^~~~ or    ^~~~\ instead of | \/ |

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

We don't have any but I think people have started to accumulate some which increases demand after being bothered with a number of market issues in the past few weeks. It was done and they realized that it couldn't be enough not to trust back to Bitcoin again.

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In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

No manipulations happen and it pumps naturally that is what I see. But it never holds long and stays in that position, many people are dumping their Bitcoin for the sake of making a profit from a few price rallies. I couldn't blame them because these people are already waiting for it, perhaps, they are short-term investors.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

The current price movement was actually predicted on this forum. It's the only place where it's predicted so accurately.

It's actually a Miracle, from our CREATOR rather than price manipulation. And this will continue to happen until the end.
If a news a million times worse than the current fundamental appears it will still move up. If $100billion is remove from the market it will still move up.
The price movement is nolonger in the hands of the so called Whales. It's in the hands of the one whom Bitcoin serves and obey.
The truth is that If you break free from the Matrix you become the richest and have the ability to influence things including the price of Bitcoin.
I hope this truth isn't too much for you to handle. I expect intelligent and open minded people to see this as a possibility. Afterall many believe human could live forever, something that seem very impossible.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

Bitcoin doesn't give a damn about fundamentals, TA, news etc. There have been too many attempts to manipulate Bitcoin, including "China bans Bitcoin", "Bitcoin is a ponzi and it's going to 0" etc etc etc that is has become less prone to it. Besides, we dropped below $19k, which was the previous cycle's top and such behavior is abnormal for BTC to say the least. When Bitcoin is sinking and it's accompanied by great news nobody is surprised. When there are no good news and we're pumping everyone is so shocked! Why? Grin

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Yeah, don't get caught up in the news (which is all after the fact, really) and don't get caught up in predictions. As pointed out above, people were gunning for 100k 5 years ago (not to mention the prophets of 1 million dollar Bitcoin). That might seem like a certainty in next ATH (I certainly think so) but we'll probably hear about 500k and more in the run up. Don't buy any of it.

This isn't manipulation, to me. It's just a return to the mean. We'll probably suffer a lot more before proper confidence pushes price back to actual value.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Not everyone expected the price to go so low, although many hoped to buy Bitcoin at even lower prices. Expectations and reality often go in different directions, and that was the case this time as well - although even today there are those who think that another crash will happen. My personal opinion is that the price is returning to where it should realistically be, which is somewhere between $25k and $30k, with the possibility that it will be even higher by the end of the year if the world economy continues to recover.

Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

As some have already written, there does not have to be positive news about Bitcoin for its price to rise, but you, like many others on the forum, do not look at the big picture and what happened at the beginning of the year slips completely under your radar. I wrote a little more about it in this thread, and if you take into account that Bitcoin has become part of global markets, then it is logical that such (positive) events have an impact on its price as well.

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It could be a bear market rally like we saw in 2019 when bitcoin rose to $13,000 before falling back down significantly.

It could be because FTX were selling fake bitcoin because they didn’t actually have any to sell. This was artificially increasing the supply which is weird but what actually happened. This suppressed the price so now FTX has blown up the foot is off bitcoin’s head so maybe it now will start to rise.

These are all theories, the only way we’ll know if this is a fake pump is with time. Let’s see where the price is by end of Q1.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

(....)
In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

It's very confusing right now. If you take a look at lower time frame, you will see a very volatile, lot of candle wicks green/or red but on higher time, all good, fewer wicks.
The breakout from the $21,000 level for me seems the bullish for short term for me, especially since the monthly candle is fast approaching.
If we manage to hold the $21,000 level this month, for me this is not a bear trap anymore. A bullish sign for me until the end of first quarter of this year.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Usually bitcoin will never reach the prices which everyone is anticipating. Do you think that everyone will wait for 12K and buy bitcoin and build position at that level and then ride the profits during next bull market. Market never gives profits to all the participants.

I would say that bitcoin can still dump and reach 12K levels but it will only happen when no one will anticipate for it. Just like who knows bitcoin might dump from 24-25$ level and reach news lows. Anything can happen in crypto world.

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Quote from: KFC786 on January 22, 2023, 01:40:13 AM

We just do not know that what can happen in next coming weeks but that's not bull either. But still Bitcoin price may go back to almost 30k at the end of February and that could push a lot of buyers to buy and whales can also make good money too.

I also heard the same thing. Throughout the twitter it is being discussed that Bitcoins will cross 30k usd very soon. Those who were waiting for more low price, they gonna regret. Bitcoins have started increasing in price, and won’t stop till they reach a price correction point. Many are also predicting that Bitcoins will take a pause at 35k usd, but still that’s just an assumption, anything can happen in between. But currently what I can see is that, there are more buy orders then sell orders for Bitcoins. So bitcoins will keep on rising for now.

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Quote from: Yatsan on January 22, 2023, 03:55:22 AM

Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on January 22, 2023, 02:06:56 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 22, 2023, 01:18:32 AM

Bitcoin is not pumping (pumping demands a follow up dump). It is rising and in my opinion the main reason is simply because it was undervalued (a reverse bubble) so it had to correct and go back to realistic values.
After all the dump itself was manipulation to push the price to unrealistically low levels.

Realistic value? So in your opinion at what level should it be staying if all the dump made few months ago was just a solid manipulation. We can say it is, but some institution are probably unload their bags due to the recession that we have experience and we all knew cash is the best weapon during recession.

There's no such thing as realistic value simply because its market price is determine by demand which means sky is the limit. Institutions might be holding longer I think, for sure they have entered already at $15k and are only waiting for a huge pump. Economic recession I guess has nothing to do with this one. For sure they are not dumb enough to put their threshold into another investment which is too volatile. What we are seeing might be a temporary spike with the prices due to mixed factors; the report and other related news in this industry. But this is something to look forward to for this year given how long the market remained on dip last quarter of the previous year.

Tes, the markets are fickle and I think they are still heavily leveraged. This new little pump up
could well have been as a result of short trades getting liquidated which in turn pump the
price, which in turn liquidates more short trades, and so on.

I can imagine that a lot of long trades have been placed by traders thinking the market is going
to keep rising, which means that eventually they are going to get liquidated causing a fall back.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on January 22, 2023, 02:06:56 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 22, 2023, 01:18:32 AM

Bitcoin is not pumping (pumping demands a follow up dump). It is rising and in my opinion the main reason is simply because it was undervalued (a reverse bubble) so it had to correct and go back to realistic values.
After all the dump itself was manipulation to push the price to unrealistically low levels.

Realistic value? So in your opinion at what level should it be staying if all the dump made few months ago was just a solid manipulation. We can say it is, but some institution are probably unload their bags due to the recession that we have experience and we all knew cash is the best weapon during recession.

There's no such thing as realistic value simply because its market price is determine by demand which means sky is the limit. Institutions might be holding longer I think, for sure they have entered already at $15k and are only waiting for a huge pump. Economic recession I guess has nothing to do with this one. For sure they are not dumb enough to put their threshold into another investment which is too volatile. What we are seeing might be a temporary spike with the prices due to mixed factors; the report and other related news in this industry. But this is something to look forward to for this year given how long the market remained on dip last quarter of the previous year.

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on January 22, 2023, 02:06:56 AM

Realistic value? So in your opinion at what level should it be staying if all the dump made few months ago was just a solid manipulation. We can say it is, but some institution are probably unload their bags due to the recession that we have experience and we all knew cash is the best weapon during recession.

It is tough to say but it is clear that $16k was way below the intrinsic value of bitcoin whether you want to compute it based on the cost of mining which some people do or based on the historical price movements where $20k was the last bubble's peak we saw back in 2017 and price never goes below it. Not to mention with all the adoption we had price had to have gone up not go down. But when a lot of bitcoin is unloaded on a small market with thinned order books, the price tends to go below the intrinsic value very easily.

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 22, 2023, 01:18:32 AM

Bitcoin is not pumping (pumping demands a follow up dump). It is rising and in my opinion the main reason is simply because it was undervalued (a reverse bubble) so it had to correct and go back to realistic values.
After all the dump itself was manipulation to push the price to unrealistically low levels.

Realistic value? So in your opinion at what level should it be staying if all the dump made few months ago was just a solid manipulation. We can say it is, but some institution are probably unload their bags due to the recession that we have experience and we all knew cash is the best weapon during recession.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

We just do not know that what can happen in next coming weeks but that's not bull either. But still Bitcoin price may go back to almost 30k at the end of February and that could push a lot of buyers to buy and whales can also make good money too.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

Ops wonder no more, because it is too early for that and the only time Bitcoin increase or decrease in value will cause me to wonder as for what is behind its movement is when the percentages movement in both direction is up to 15% to 20% within a short period not more than 24 to 48 hours.

But this time bitcoin just gain a little around 3% to 1.30% in the last few days, and also did that percentage movement in both directions.

So all I can say is the bitcoin is just acting out its normal market movement, and the only event I can point to be responsible for this increase is the US inflation rate that made many stocks gain a few percentage volumes against the dollars in the last few days.

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Quote from: virasog on January 22, 2023, 12:47:47 AM

When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Just because random people on the internet say a bunch of stuff that doesn't mean those stuff are correct. That doesn't even mean they believe in them! Back in 2017 everyone was saying price is going to reach $100k just because price was on the rise for some time and in about a month went up 2x.

It's the same story these days, just because price dropped for a while a lot of newbies who claim to be "analysts" was too caught up in the drop that thought it should continue indefinitely.

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Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Most of it had very little to do with bitcoin or its price although they usually cause weak hands' panic sells.

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Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

Good news is not the only reason leading to a rise.

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In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

Bitcoin is not pumping (pumping demands a follow up dump). It is rising and in my opinion the main reason is simply because it was undervalued (a reverse bubble) so it had to correct and go back to realistic values.
After all the dump itself was manipulation to push the price to unrealistically low levels.

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Could it be a correction of the price?

As you mentioned there have been positive news in the recent past which indirectly and loosely affected bitcoin and could have pushed the price now and now there is a retrace back to the more accurate valuation.

It could also be a mini bull run and the price keeps creeping up with the coming weeks.

- Jay -

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When each and every analysis was bearish on the bitcoin and everyone was expecting bitcoin to dump to 12K-14K$, the bitcoin start pumping and reached 23K in few days time.

Also, when we look at the fundamentals, they are also all bearish with events like Luna Crash, FTX Crash, Stable coins fund, Gemini and other companies' bankruptcy.

Also, we do not have any positive news about bitcoin recently, do we?

In these times, the bitcoin to pump makes me wonder whether it is due to manipulation and short squeeze to liquidate many short positions opened on bitcoin?

Topic: Bitcoin Mini bull run or short Squeeze (manipulation) ? (Read 398 times)