Topic: Bitcoin mining project, entry level investment (Read 4225 times)

Since you posted here, will explain.

As stated we are looking to for information to help us along.  We are not requiring and NDA on this.

The NDA would only be needed if in our talks you or I need to discuss confidential information.  A mutual NDA protects both parties should it be deemed necessary.

I can change the wording a little to emphasize this point, but we are not requiring and NDA.

Something interesting they started a new topic here - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14468525 and locked it after posting:

We are seeking individuals WHO are extremely knowledgeable in all areas of bitcoin mining.

We have bitcoin mining experience, but wish to obtain outside perspective on our project and goals, to avoid the pitfalls of so many.

If you have experience with ASIC design, PC Board Design, Controller, and/or software experience for monitoring miner(s), please contact us.

We/You may need to discuss confidential information, inasmuch as both parties would benefit from a mutual NDA.

If you feel you can assist us, please send a PM to us, as we will be locking this thread to avoid unnecessary distractions in our goal.


So not sure what their motive is but seems they are back with post they did above and locked in a new topic.   I think they will find out they need to tell more before most would touch a NDA.   

I am not willing to sign shit.

If you can't explain how your plan is better than buying 2.1 million worth of bitcoin on the market, in public, your plan is useless.

Are you willing to sign our NDA, so we can prove to you what we are offering is a good deal?

If not can we have a truce, because we will never see eye to eye.

I am not against bitcoin, I am against people needlessly spending money on new miners when it does not make financial sense to them. If you think it is worth spending your oney on miners, go to it. You have not said anything to prove to me that it would be worth my money, or anyone else's to participate in this project.

Stupid people bad at math paid a bunch of scammers too much money to make the difficulty, hashrate, and price of mining go up much higher than it should have ever gotten. Throwing more money into the hole isn't going to fix anything.

The hashrate does not need to continually go up, especially when you will never actually make more bitcoins in the operation than you could on the market.

Saw this question on Mining speculation “What difficulty level is a deal breaker for you?”

We thought this was a good question for us to answer here.

As it stands, we are not worried about the difficulty increasing as our power cost is extremely reasonable @ 0.0256 kw/H.

We also have additional parcels of land where we could put more mining power if needed to maintain our percentage of hashing rate, but this is a double edge sword as it therefore increases the difficulty (Zeno’s Paradox).  The only saving grace is more expensive power cost will drive less efficient miner out where the difficulty should start to stabilize.

 YOU are the one that doesn't get it.

 Yes, the machines will produce less over time - but there is a limit on that, and they will NOT be "undercut" severely by NEW TECHNOLOGY making them obsolete and outdated and inefficient in less than a year.

 Also, a lot of current hashrate will dry up and go away from current miners when the 14/16nm generation renders them unprofitable. Not ALL, but a large majority - which will slow hashrate growth some.


 As it happens, a lot of miners HAVE in fact been operating for years at this point - not Antminer S5 or S7 units that haven't existed long enough to generate any track record at a 2 year of existance point, but quite a few of the older A1 based gear is still running after years among other examples.



 Also, why do you keep harping on the straw man argument about "turn 2.1 million into 6000 bitcoin"? Go back and re-read what was said.

 

I'm not pro or against this company, but I just want to point out, that they are planning to offer 325% ROI over 4 years.

Just wanted to refresh our original posting.

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Columbia Basin Mining, LLC (“CBM”) is a Washington State Limited Liability Corporation, located in Moses Lake, WA.

Our co-founder owns two different parcels of land having access to 10 megawatts of power each. He is giving CBM the land rights so we can have nearly 20 megawatts of power for our mining project.

We also have the possibility to lease property with 13 megawatts.

At this time we are seeking accredited investors to assist in a 1 megawatt prototype build to show a Proof of Concept to potential larger investors.

This initial cost of the prototype will include financing the permits and running power to the property from the substations. This cost alone is estimated at $250K from the Public Utility District (PUD).

With one megawatt of power we should have minimum of 6.0 PH/s (0.6%) of the current hashing rate (1 EH/s).

Our electricity cost with all taxes and fees is $0.0256 kW/h.

The overall build is estimated to cost $2.1M (roughly 6000 BTC based on $350 USD).

We are offering 21% of CBM (or 0.0035% per 1 BTC) investment. All investment funds will be held in a cold wallet (1CBMwaCqYWQriKP73hxD8HeCY9mMGGtfbZ).

Once the investment funds reach 30% of target $630,000 (appox. 1800 BTC) we will start construction on the first 0.20 megawatts of mining.  We estimate this build to be 60 days, after which we’ll add additional mining for every $70,000 (appox. 200 BTC) collected.

Should CBM fail to reach the necessary 30% of target on or before April 15, 2016 all funds will be returned to the investors minus a miner’s fee of 0.0002 BTC.

We will be continuously seeking private placement to complete the full 20 megawatt project, and the return of your initial investment. Your ownership percentage will not be diluted because of the private placement.

CBM revenue is the accumulation of all bitcoin mining between Monday – Sunday in a calendar week (“Mining Week”). The earnings will be based on the gross mining revenue from the “Mining Week”, and the valuation will be determined by the spot price of Bitcoin in USD from CoinBase.com the day following the “Mining Week” at 12:00 PST.

CBM is estimating expenses at 35% of gross mining revenue, and will pay earnings based on net proceeds after mining expenses. All earnings are paid within 10 days following the “Mining Week”, by Company cheque (“check”). The investor may elect to receive bitcoin in lieu of check, but all reimbursement calculations are based in USD as if receiving a check.

The earnings amount is dependent on the percentage of investor’s overall ownership, but anticipating 325% ROI over 4 years.

Multiple investors are also welcome.

If you have questions, please email, private message or Skype us. Some information may require signing a Mutual Non-Disclosure Agreement. We will post all relative questions in this thread along with the answer, as long as it does not violate any vendor’s NDA. If any question needs additional research, please allow us ample time to respond.

Any investor desiring a refund before April 15, 2016 we will be charged 2% fee based on the returned amount.

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This posting is not a scam, and any such statements and/or unwanted spam posting will be removed.

So now we can address the elephant in the room.

Are you against bitcoin as it stands now?
Why are you motivated to hurt or hinder a company that has done nothing to you personally?

After reading your statement, all I see, is you want to stop the use of all the energy needed in the mining process.

Adding more mining power to the network is absolutely necessary otherwise you are inviting a 51% control problem, as it is we are already getting close to that.

Our take on it is, you are not necessarily against us, as much as what we are wanting to do.

You still don't seem to get this so let's try again in plain English.

You are asking for 6,000 BTC, to buy machines that will make more BTC. Mining is just another way to get BTC, that's all it is. Someone with 2.1 million dollars does not need your help to get 6,000 BTC, so they have no reason to give you 2.1 million dollars, or 6,000 unless and until you can explain a plan to turn that money into more than 6000 BTC.

I would certainly not fund your project, nor am I a competitor because I realize that bitcoin mining, at the current status does not make sense. It is MUCH better for me, or anyone else to take my x amount of dollars, and turn it into x/350 BTC, instead of buying a machine that will generate less than x/350 btc over the course of it's useful life.

Even if i was so inclined to do that, I would be much better off buying my own miner instead of fronting all of the money for 21% of a miner as is offered here.

My only motive is to get people to stop throwing money and electricity at this stupidity.

If you think that, you don't get it.

New generations of miners are not the only way to damage a mining farm. Other people buying and running 14/16nm chips (which they will be doing in droves if they are so great) will cause the difficulty to increase, which will make these miners generate less coins over time, which will make them less valuable. That doesn't even deal with the issues of hardware failure that are sure to spring up.

Unless of course you have reason to believe that other people will be unable to acquire this magical chip that will be state of the art for 3 years. If that's the case, you may have something, and should at least state that in your public posting.

MegaBigPower as for as we know is located in Wenatchee (Chelan County).  This article may interest you.

Some of our information on other miners maybe obsolete, and was never intended to mislead.



We agree with your above assessment on the chips.

Before we answer your questions, just alerting that we are taking a defensive stance.

Did you actually read our posting?

At this time we are seeking accredited investors to assist in a 1 megawatt prototype build to show a Proof of Concept to potential larger investors.

The overall build is estimated to cost $2.1M (roughly 6000 BTC based on $350 USD).


You stated: “They don't have a way to turn 2.1 million dollars into more than 6,000 bitcoins like they are claiming.”

What are you thinking?  We said that 6000 BTC was equivalent to $2.1M, based on a set price that was easily divisible.  This was a comparison for the bitcoin community.


Your statement: “I'm not asking for some state secret, I'm asking for them to give the basics of their business.”

We have posted the basics of our business plan, but what we have not posted is our strategy to more profitability, as we are asking for an NDA for this information.


Your statement: “An NDA gives no benefit to me. I know the answer to my questions.”

If that was the case, you would have already funded our whole project, if you have the means.


Your statement: “I want them to publicly state that, so they don't get any money, or publicly refute that, so people will have a reason to give them money.”

Phildo, you came out guns blazing, attacking us without any insight to our business model.  It’s apparent in the above statement you want to sabotage our operation, and we are befuddled as to why.  Are you in the same playing field as us, and do not want to see anymore competition?

quietbearcoin, we are allowed a limited number of non-accredited investors (35), as long as these investors have some actual investment experience.  If you qualify on the latter part, we will be more then happy to send you our NDA.

As to your other question, we have had no requests for our NDA.

 The 14/16nm full custom generation SHOULD be profitable for AT LEAST 3 and more likely 5-6 years, as it will have caught up with semiconductor state-of-the-art and there CAN"T be anything significantly better for a few years (probably 3-5 year timeframe, possibly LONGER, before the 8nm (IBM) or 10nm (Intel) generation hits commercial availability at all).

 The next generation WILL in fact be a new world for mining, since it WON'T have to look over it's shoulder wondering if it will have even 6 months to pay off before the next generation arrives.

 Actually, that power rate is very competative but NOT "half" what most major Bitcoin mining operations appear to be paying.

 MegaBigPower, for a well known and somewhat documented example, is ALSO paying a bit less than 3 cents/KWH (their mining operation is in either Chelan or Douglass county, or they may have some operations in both).

 Most of the Chinese big farms are paying NO MORE than 3 cents/KWH per multiple reports and comments about them.

 Folks that are paying 5 cents or more on big farms are rare to non-extant any more.

An NDA gives no benefit to me. I know the answer to my questions. They don't have a way to turn 2.1 million dollars into more than 6,000 bitcoins like they are claiming. I want them to publicly state that, so they don't get any money, or publicly refute that, so people will have a reason to give them money.

I'm not asking for some state secret, I'm asking for them to give the basics of their business.

So, let me see if I am following you on this... You're saying that if someone asks for monies publicly, they can't keep the answer a secret when all they're doing is asking the questioner to sign an NDA?
Why do you think NDA's are even used then?
But firstly, I have to step back and wonder if you're aware of what the purpose of an NDA is?
I am NOT trying to be snarky here, King of the Bully's  . You just seem to have a real aversion to signing one if you really want to know the answer.
Methinks thou doth protest too much.

He hasn't answered how he plans to make more than 6k bitcoins, which is the basic premise.

If you can't do that publicly, you shouldn't be asking for money publicly.

If asking questions to get people to realize that buying miners for someone else is a stupid idea is bullying, you can call me king bully.

I still really like how this guy answers questions and think if he has business secrets why not sign a nda.  Has anyone posting signed their nda and looked at this? Just wondering...

Phildo are you even interested in what they are saying or as tmfp put it “just being a bully”?

Please let me know if you will accept a small investment. If you are, I will be happy to sign an NDA.

It really makes me wonder why there seems to be so much resistance to signing one. What is wrong with protecting ones information? Seriously.

Now this maybe condescending, but sir, we understand mining to its fullest. 

If you think there is going to be a new chip every year at this point is ludicrous.  This current generation of ASIC we believe will be valid for two years or more.  We could be proven wrong, but based on research we think the next step is 10nm and not sure how long that will take.

Every time someone adds a more powerful miner it affects the difficulty, although you are only looking at one side of the equation.

How many miners go offline because it just becomes too expensive for them?  How many crash and burn because of old technology?  All this and more have cause and effect on the difficulty.

Also, businesses can not just increase hashing rate every time the difficulty changes, they would bankrupt themselves.  Increasing hashing also increases the expense and unless you have a good handle on all your expenses, including replacement costs you are in a race to the bottom.  With that said, we are always looking for more power to increase our percentage, but we also feel there is a limit before you actually start losing money with more power.

It's clear that you don't understand how mining works if you think that miners bought today will last for years on end.

New technology is only part of the problem. Every time any other person in the world plugs in a miner, your miner becomes worth less because the difficulty goes up and the miner makes less.

You need to constantly add hashrate to keep up with the difficulty, never mind new technology. And every time you buy a new miner you dig the hole a little deeper and make it harder to get back to where you started from, never mind turning a profit.

I like to thank you for that.  Yes, I click quote quickly and then work on what I want to say.


Referencing a previous posting now:  Assuming BitFury guarantees are accurate we should be able to achieve 9.75 PH/s per megawatt.  Most of our calculation was assuming 0.15 J/GH (6.6 PH/s).

The small scale as you state is just a prototype to prove the profitability of bitcoin mining to a potential larger investor(s) that are not familiar with bitcoin mining.

What we bring to the table is two things, and willing only to talk about the one in open forum.

• We have the land and the power needed for this mining operation.  This is not leased land, it is owned by the co-founder.  Also having power cost of $0.0256 kW/h is almost half of most operation or more.
  
  
• The other part (beating a dead horse) requires the signing of our NDA.  To explain our whole business strategy without a NDA is foolish.  We believe that everything will become crystal clear once investor(s) understand our business model for this stage.

If you are an accredited investor, you are more then welcome you to look over our proposal.  This should convince you one way or the other if we are a scam.

Since BitFury has now openly published that they are selling the BF8162C16, I will assume we can talk about them, but not the pricing.

We felt that the 16nm chips would last through the next halving, because going smaller is showing to be much more difficult.

Assuming BitFury guarantees are accurate we should be able to achieve 9.75 PH/s per megawatt.  Most of our calculation was assuming 0.15 J/GH (6.6 PH/s).

We will do our best to show more transparency.  The business information is public record and can be found here Secretary of State.

The LinkedIn pages for co-founders:

• Steven Swanson
  
• Keith Kofoed
  

Our website is just a stub at this time as we are not seeking any customers.  We will improve the site when needed.

We also have a Skype to talk to people.  Because Skype is full of spammers, please indicate  "Lets talk about bitcoin mining", this weeds out spammers.

We are also very aware about all the scamming on this forum, and to be honest we believe we have a bigger hurdle proving we are not a scam then even raising the necessary funds for the prototype.

Yes, I have no interest in appearing to be a bully so I edited that out, not before you read it and quoted it tho.

I am trying to get a handle on the basic proposal, which is a 6 Ph/s farm with hopes for expansion, and attempting to see what you bring to the table that is worth 71% ownership of the project. For a substantial investor confident in the basic premise of mining remaining profitable on a comparatively small scale such as this, a long term lease on hash power in an existing operation would seem to be a more proven and less speculative approach.

 1 - 14/16nm full custom should last about that long and perhaps a bit longer before something better CAN show up.

 2 - IF they do the initial build using currently-available 28nm full custom or the B11 14nm NOT full custom gear/chips.


 When 14/16nm gear shows up for Bitcoin mining, the hardware will have finally caught up with "state of the art" and there won't BE any "better node" to move up to for years.



 No NDA required, just have to pay attention to announcements and existing gear options.

My usual questions, verifiable NAMES of people behind it, social network profiles, registration data, anything which add to the transparency of this operation? You have to understand, with so many scams around, people do not tend to trust online mining investments.

Need an nda to explain how a mining farm will make money, seems legit.

Being unable to provide basic facts in an open forum says more than any answer could.

Yes we had a previous posting that was deleted and locked.  That posting was for the opportunity to acquire more land, however once that opportunity expired the thread was no longer needed or valid.

We are a new business and as such there is no other way to protect ourselves except with an NDA.  We are trying to provide as much detail as we can without giving our business model away, and yes that could be considered vague, although we are very happy to discuss our business plan in detail with interested qualified investors.  As far as being defensive, we have expressed our opinion, but never criticized, or used vulgar language in doing such (not saying you have, just in general), and respect that everyone has their own opinion.

The only reason it is difficult to find information about Columbia Basin Mining, LLC is because we created this company in Sept 2015, and no other filings were required, also we are privately held.  As you stated we are on LinkedIn and not hiding our identities, and our business location is also public information.

On a defensive note, this is the second time you have made a threat about post us on a Scam Accusation thread.  We are seeking accredited investors and as such they are very aware about due diligence, and we are more the willing to provide such data.

You guys regularly float self modded threads based on this proposal and then either delete or lock them.
Whenever you are questioned about logic or detail you become vague, then defensive, or invoke a NDA.
You ran up a draft contract which specified a non returnable 4 yearly payment upfront with a Company termination option after 7 days of non profitability.
Steve Swanson claims on Linkedin, in your name, that "We currently have 20 megawatts of power on our land, and with the latest technology available we could achieve 15+% of all mining."
Columbia Basin Mining LLC, Washington State, is extremely difficult to find any information about.

You do not inspire confidence.

You are getting into NDA territory.  If you are a serious investor we are more then happy to discuss this further offline, after an NDA has been completed.

We are not willing to disclose your business model in an open forum.

4 years??

How many generations of mining gear will that require? What is the detailed plan to replace the original purchases miners, because they will not last 4 years.

And you still need to explain in detail how you are going to turn the 2.1 million into more than 6000 btc. We don't need your help to turn 2.1 million into 6000 btc, so you need to explain how you are going to turn it into more than 6000 btc to give anyone a reason to give you any money.

My apologies for any misunderstanding, but never did we state you would only get your investment back.  In our business plan we are estimating about a 325% return on investment in 4 years, and believe mining profits should last through the next halving in 2020.

To fully understand the return on your investment we require NDA.

It does not make sense to give you $x to mine bitcoins if you cannot generate more BTC than I can buy with $x. You are looking to raise 2.1 million or 6k bitcoins. Let's say you get that 2.1 million. It does not make sense to spend all the time, effort, and resources to mine bitcoins unless the result will be more than 6k bitcoins, because it will be a lot easier to buy 6k bitcoins than to mine.

On a smaller level, if YOU cannot make those 6k bitcoins, it doesn't make sense for me to give any money to you, because besides all the time, effort, and resources and risks inherent in the mining industry, I also am taking on the additional risk of trusting you.

This doesn't make sense for anyone, unless you can explain to them how you are going to make more than 6k bitcoins.

Their are several rate sheets, at this time we are being classified as rate 14.  Using these ratings you also have to consider minimum, energy, and demand charges which residential do not have.  As stated, we have spreadsheets provided to us from the PUD to have an accurate energy expenses.

 I missed the "Large General Service" rate sheet, which works as long as you don't exceed 5MW.

 MOST of their other rates are in the 4-5 cent range, after you factor in the load charges.

The reason we are not basing the investment on Bitcoin is because all the construction and permits and build are in USD.  Also most investors outside of the Bitcoin arena only deal in USD.

Although we did state that investor could receive their earning in Bitcoin.


Can you clarification please, as I think there might be a slight misunderstanding.

Not basing the return on bitcoin is stupid.

Why should I give you 1 BTC if you can't turn it into more than 1 BTC?

No matter the price of bitcoin, I am better of with 1 BTC than less than 1 BTC. If you can't turn my 1 BTC into more than 1 BTC, your project is no better than literally doing nothing, what is the benefit to me if the only way to profit from the venture is the price going up? I can get the same benefit by putting 1 BTC on a thumb drive and staring at it without all the additional risks associated with trusting you and dealing with mining.

I really like what you're doing/planning... Especially the answers you're giving to the questions asked. They're pretty much the questions I had at first...
I am no where near able to invest big monies into your project, but will you take small investments of a bitcoin or two? It would be nice if us little investors
can get in on this size of a project from the start.
Either way, good luck on your plans!

Yes we are looking into 16nm ASIC.  We are currently under 3 different NDA in our discussions regarding the 16nm. 

Our desire is to use 16nm even for the prototype, but might have to go with 28nm for the Proof of Concept.
Needless to say the faster we are up the better, because of the halving.

The 6 PH/s for 1 megawatt to the site implies a miner efficiency of around 0.1J/Gigahash (assuming an 80% loaded mains supply). So I assume you are looking at 16nm miners.

If this is the case how far along are you along with gaining access to 16nm miners and when do you expect them to be available to you?

Everyone has the same issue with difficulty unless they add more mining equipment.  Also we have a strategic advantage because of our low power cost.

Additionally, we are looking to explore other locations in the area with 1+ megawatt of power to grow our operations.


We are not basing return on bitcoin, but USD at this time.  The 6000 BTC is just an estimate for $2.1M as stated in our original posting.

We have been talking with investors to do the full 20 megawatts of mining, but are requesting a Proof of Concept first.

How long the return takes will depend on several factors.

How soon we can find an investor(s) to complete our overall project.  Our plans include the reimbursement of initial investors, as our business plan includes payback to initial investors for the prototype investment.

How much mining percentage we actually achieve.  As you know, the hash-rate has been climbing, which in turn lowers our chances of mining a block.

Our goal is to have an investor before the end of the year. Otherwise, with the halving coming soon, our estimate is 24 months.

(To fully understand the return on your investment you would need to sign an NDA with CBM).


Our capital contribution is bringing the land rights and power for the mining operation at no further cost to CBM.  A 21% ownership for 1/20th for a Proof of Concept seems very fair, as we are overseeing all construction and permitting, as well as ongoing maintenance of the mining equipment.

Also, your investment will be returned upon finding investor(s) for the overall project. Your capital contribution should be returned in a relativity short period of time.


Our goal is to raise $2.1M for this stage of our project. Should the bitcoin price change, the number of bitcoin required will also change proportionately.

We have a set price of $100,000 per 1%, and are willing to adjust the percentage of ownership upon actual use of funds. This would be based on the Coinbase price at the time of exchange.

Percentage calculation is easy, as it would be 0.00001% per $1USD.

What are your plans to keep up with difficulty increases?

How long do you think it will take to get back the original 6,000 BTC?

What are you bringing to the table to get 79% of the company even though the investors are providing all this capital?

What happens to my .0035% if there is a drastic change in BTC price between when I give it to you and you reach a funding goal?

There was no special negotiated price.  The price is based on corporate rates and power usage from the PUD.  All power expenses have been calculated from a spreadsheet provide to us from the PUD.

The amount you stated is closer to the residential rate for the area.

I'm guessing you had to negotiate a special rate with Grant County PUC, since their POSTED electric rates are close to 5c/KWH?

Columbia Basin Mining, LLC (“CBM”) is a Washington State Limited Liability Corporation, located in Moses Lake, WA.

Our co-founder owns two different parcels of land having access to 10 megawatts of power each. He is giving CBM the land rights so we can have nearly 20 megawatts of power for our mining project.

We also have the possibility to lease property with 13 megawatts.

At this time we are seeking accredited investors to assist in a 1 megawatt prototype build to show a Proof of Concept to potential larger investors.

This initial cost of the prototype will include financing the permits and running power to the property from the substations. This cost alone is estimated at $250K from the Public Utility District (PUD).

With one megawatt of power we should have minimum of 6.0 PH/s (0.6%) of the current hashing rate (1 EH/s).

Our electricity cost with all taxes and fees is $0.0256 kW/h.

The overall build is estimated to cost $2.1M (roughly 6000 BTC based on $350 USD).

We are offering 21% of CBM (or 0.0035% per 1 BTC) investment. All investment funds will be held in a cold wallet (1CBMwaCqYWQriKP73hxD8HeCY9mMGGtfbZ).

Once the investment funds reach 30% of target $630,000 (appox. 1800 BTC) we will start construction on the first 0.20 megawatts of mining.  We estimate this build to be 60 days, after which we’ll add additional mining for every $70,000 (appox. 200 BTC) collected.

Should CBM fail to reach the necessary 30% of target on or before April 15, 2016 all funds will be returned to the investors minus a miner’s fee of 0.0002 BTC.

We will be continuously seeking private placement to complete the full 20 megawatt project, and the return of your initial investment. Your ownership percentage will not be diluted because of the private placement.

CBM revenue is the accumulation of all bitcoin mining between Monday – Sunday in a calendar week (“Mining Week”). The earnings will be based on the gross mining revenue from the “Mining Week”, and the valuation will be determined by the spot price of Bitcoin in USD from CoinBase.com the day following the “Mining Week” at 12:00 PST.

CBM is estimating expenses at 35% of gross mining revenue, and will pay earnings based on net proceeds after mining expenses. All earnings are paid within 10 days following the “Mining Week”, by Company cheque (“check”). The investor may elect to receive bitcoin in lieu of check, but all reimbursement calculations are based in USD as if receiving a check.

The earnings amount is dependent on the percentage of investor’s overall ownership, but anticipating 325% ROI over 4 years.

Multiple investors are also welcome.

If you have questions, please email, private message or Skype us. Some information may require signing a Mutual Non-Disclosure Agreement. We will post all relative questions in this thread along with the answer, as long as it does not violate any vendor’s NDA. If any question needs additional research, please allow us ample time to respond.

Any investor desiring a refund before April 15, 2016 we will be charged 2% fee based on the returned amount.

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This posting is not a scam, and any such statements and/or unwanted spam posting will be removed.