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xenon131

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 10, 2020, 06:53:14 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

I will appreciate further explaination about this, which wallets are non-node wallets?

Essentially, anything that isn't Bitcoin Core isn't a full node.

Seems to be not correct as there are others implementation of bitcoin nodes that can be called "full". Look at https://coin.dance/nodes Sure those nodes that based on Bitcoin Core are the most numerous of all existing bitcoin implementations however they are not unique.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: xenon131 on December 26, 2020, 11:46:47 AM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 10, 2020, 06:53:14 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

I will appreciate further explaination about this, which wallets are non-node wallets?

Essentially, anything that isn't Bitcoin Core isn't a full node.

Seems to be not correct as there are others implementation of bitcoin nodes that can be called "full". Look at https://coin.dance/nodes Sure those nodes that based on Bitcoin Core are the most numerous of all existing bitcoin implementations however they are not unique.

Correct, and I said as much in the very next sentence after the one you quoted. Yes, there are a number of other implementations of full node software, but given that all the minor implementations combined only make up around 1% of all full nodes, with around 99% of full nodes running Bitcoin Core, then when discussing the difference between full nodes, light wallets, and custodial wallets with a newbie who is unfamiliar with these concepts, then it easier to simply ignore these other implementations.

I often find in bitcoin, when explaining new ideas and concepts to newbies it is better to focus on the main and relevant points, rather than get bogged down in the (often irrelevant) minutiae.

sajedul islam

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I Love Cryptocurrency

Quote

I am interested in Bitcoin ecosystem, and I got a question. Why would I download the Bitcoin Client

?

A bitcoin network is a peer-to-peer network that is managed via a cryptographic protocol.

Bitcoin network requires a minimal structure to share transactions. A specially decentralized network of volunteers is sufficient. Messages are broadcast on the basis of maximum effort.
Nodes can be disconnected from the network at will, or reconnected.
After reconnecting, one node verifies and downloads new blocks from other nodes to complete the local copy of the blockchain.

Carces

newbie

Activity: 12

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What is the benefit of your government being stable? Or is your country safe?
The stability of the network and making it decentralized earns it a value that increases its value and consequently increases the prices.
it will return to you if you maintain some of these currencies or do speculation and trading.
if bitcoin controlled by one or 10 miners it will be weak and less price.

Vital_Z

newbie

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Quote from: cauciuc08 on June 02, 2020, 11:06:00 AM

hey together,

I am interested in Bitcoin ecosystem, and I got a question. Why would I download the Bitcoin Client?
what would be the benefits for me as a user besides of helping the Bitcoin Network to be sustainable?

Thx

Of course, this is not necessary, but it gives some convenience and privacy, also provides good protection and ease of use. But of course, everyone has to decide whether he needs a Bitcoin client or whether you can do without it.

Toomykins

newbie

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 02, 2020, 01:59:44 PM

In addition to better privacy as mentioned above, running your own node also means you don't have to trust a third party. You can validate all blocks yourself, and you can verify every transaction you send or receive yourself. Any non-node wallet must connect to someone else's node, and trust that they are honestly verifying transactions and sending you the correct information.

Quote from: seoincorporation on June 02, 2020, 12:35:08 PM

Another feature you will get is a better manipulation for your coins, you can build your own transactions selecting the inputs you want to choose and spend to multiple addys on the same transaction.

True, but this isn't unique to Bitcoin Core by any means. Most good lightweight/SPV desktop wallets allow coin control and send-to-many.

Thank you very much, I will try to create my own node. I hope this helps

bob123

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

You are right, but also it helps against double spending and makes all transactions authentic and secure.

You don't need to run a full node to verify whether a transaction is 1) valid or 2) included into a block.
The SPV protocol handles by storing only the block header and not the full blocks.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

I will appreciate further explaination about this, which wallets are non-node wallets? Are non-node wallets the custodial wallets?

"non-node" walltes are wallets which do not keep a copy of the blockchain.
They are called lightweight wallets or SPV wallets.

Custodial wallets on the other hand, are wallets where not you, but a 3rd party has access to the private key (e.g. exchanges).

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

Also, if I have an open source wallet like bitcoin core and eletrum, are they example of bitcoin client? As they are made of softwares that can generate private keys securely on their own.

They are definitely clients, yes.
And both of them can create private keys (and seeds) securely, indeed.

pooya87

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 11, 2020, 02:43:37 AM

I do take your point, though. I see the wiki also uses the terms "thick" and "thin" clients to refer to full nodes and non full node wallets respectively, although that's not a term I've ever seen used elsewhere. I do think it is less confusing for everyone not to refer to non full nodes as clients at all though, and just refer to them as wallets, since that's what they are.

i don't like the terms "think" and "thin" either.
but for client i find it OK to describe all types including full node and SPV nodes. the actual definition of a "client" in "computing" is simply a computer or a software that connects to another remote computer and uses its resources.
in fact with this definition it may not be completely correct to call a full node, a client because when you run a full node there is no longer a "server-client" relationship, it is all "peer to peer" (indicating equality) whereas when using other types such as SPV there is no longer any equality, the "client" (SPV node) relies on the "server" (Full node).

here is wikipedia (also has thin and thick definitions): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client_(computing)

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Quote from: pooya87 on June 10, 2020, 11:31:32 PM

-snip-

Whenever I hear or read the phrase "bitcoin client", I assume the person is talking about a full node. Perhaps that's just a left over artifact in my head from previously referring to Bitcoin Core as the Satoshi Client.

I do take your point, though. I see the wiki also uses the terms "thick" and "thin" clients to refer to full nodes and non full node wallets respectively, although that's not a term I've ever seen used elsewhere. I do think it is less confusing for everyone not to refer to non full nodes as clients at all though, and just refer to them as wallets, since that's what they are.

pooya87

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 10, 2020, 06:53:14 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

Also, if I have an open source wallet like bitcoin core and eletrum, are they example of bitcoin client?

Bitcoin Core is a bitcoin client. Electrum is not - it is just a wallet.

i don't think there is a strict definition for the term "client". the client is usually referred to software that is capable of some pretty basic functionality including private/public key and address generation, transaction signing and connecting to bitcoin network (in one way or another).
with that definition a client can include full nodes, pruned nodes, SPV nodes and mobile wallets. the only thing that may not fall in a "client" category is web wallets and custodial wallets.

for more info an a list: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Clients

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

I will appreciate further explaination about this, which wallets are non-node wallets?

Essentially, anything that isn't Bitcoin Core isn't a full node. There are a couple of other alternative full node software packages, such as Bitcore, bcoin, and btcd, but I wouldn't worry about them. All the wallets which you might be familiar with, things like Electrum, Mycelium, Coinomi, etc., are not full nodes.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

Are non-node wallets the custodial wallets?

All custodial wallets are non-full nodes, but not all non-full nodes are custodial.

A custodial wallet is a wallet where someone else holds your coins.
A non-custodial wallet is when you hold your coins yourself. You can either hold them in a full node wallet such as Bitcoin Core, or a non-full node wallet such as Electrum.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 10, 2020, 06:31:47 AM

Also, if I have an open source wallet like bitcoin core and eletrum, are they example of bitcoin client?

Bitcoin Core is a bitcoin client. Electrum is not - it is just a wallet.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 02, 2020, 11:19:57 AM

A better privacy. You won't have to worry about third parties collecting information about you.

You are right, but also it helps against double spending and makes all transactions authentic and secure.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 02, 2020, 01:59:44 PM

In addition to better privacy as mentioned above, running your own node also means you don't have to trust a third party. You can validate all blocks yourself, and you can verify every transaction you send or receive yourself. Any non-node wallet must connect to someone else's node, and trust that they are honestly verifying transactions and sending you the correct information.

I will appreciate further explaination about this, which wallets are non-node wallets? Are non-node wallets the custodial wallets?

Also, if I have an open source wallet like bitcoin core and eletrum, are they example of bitcoin client? As they are made of softwares that can generate private keys securely on their own.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

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Quote from: kevinrosario93 on June 10, 2020, 01:27:03 AM

Conveniently, you can create your own transactions.

you don't have to run a full node client to be able to "create" your own transactions. it could be done with less than a hundred lines of code without a full client.

kevinrosario93

newbie

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Conveniently, you can create your own transactions.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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In addition to better privacy as mentioned above, running your own node also means you don't have to trust a third party. You can validate all blocks yourself, and you can verify every transaction you send or receive yourself. Any non-node wallet must connect to someone else's node, and trust that they are honestly verifying transactions and sending you the correct information.

Quote from: seoincorporation on June 02, 2020, 12:35:08 PM

Another feature you will get is a better manipulation for your coins, you can build your own transactions selecting the inputs you want to choose and spend to multiple addys on the same transaction.

True, but this isn't unique to Bitcoin Core by any means. Most good lightweight/SPV desktop wallets allow coin control and send-to-many.

seoincorporation

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Another feature you will get is a better manipulation for your coins, you can build your own transactions selecting the inputs you want to choose and spend to multiple addys on the same transaction. This is a nice feature and almost impossible to do with an online wallet.

cauciuc08

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 2

thank you for the answer.

OmegaStarScream

staff

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A better privacy. You won't have to worry about third parties collecting information about you.

And if you're referring to monetary rewards, then there are none. You can try and run your own LN node but don't expect it to be profitable.

cauciuc08

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 2

hey together,

I am interested in Bitcoin ecosystem, and I got a question. Why would I download the Bitcoin Client?
what would be the benefits for me as a user besides of helping the Bitcoin Network to be sustainable?

Thx

Topic: Bitcoin Network (Read 738 times)