Bitcoin node at every home | Bitcointalksearch.org

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Poker Player on January 22, 2025, 11:47:04 AM

The world moves forward with guys like Bukele doing everything the rest of the world says can't be done and with a mass of people behind him shouting: “He's crazy! That's impossible!”

There's a saying that the pessimists are the happiest people because the word is better than they expect it.
This being said, I will be happy if he does it. But I just will not expect him to.

Poker Player

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 22, 2025, 11:40:43 AM

I said it's not feasible. It's not impossible, but if they want to make it possible even for 75% of the households it would be a challenge that's not worth it from the government point of view - they'd need to add infrastructure, they'd need to enforce rules for people to handle those devices with extra care, they may have to pretty much pay for the electricity and internet, hire companies to visit those households and check if the devices are there and running, maybe maintain them... and then why not just buy those devices and keep them in one place, in the capitol, with internet available, with very low chance to steal them, with high chance somebody would actually maintain them and keep them running.

Do you know how the world is moving forward, NeuroticFish?

The world moves forward with guys like Bukele doing everything the rest of the world says can't be done and with a mass of people behind him shouting: “He's crazy! That's impossible!”

(I know you have not said it is impossible but in your argument you present it as very unlikely).

A guy who has turned El Salvador from being the violent crime capital of the world to having one of the lowest crime rates in the world I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, instead of objecting a priori.

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Quote from: IceLincoln on January 22, 2025, 10:09:23 AM

It’s not totally impossible, Yes there are a lot of challenges to overcome at the moment but I think if his Government is willing to achieve it, they can.

I said it's not feasible. It's not impossible, but if they want to make it possible even for 75% of the households it would be a challenge that's not worth it from the government point of view - they'd need to add infrastructure, they'd need to enforce rules for people to handle those devices with extra care, they may have to pretty much pay for the electricity and internet, hire companies to visit those households and check if the devices are there and running, maybe maintain them... and then why not just buy those devices and keep them in one place, in the capitol, with internet available, with very low chance to steal them, with high chance somebody would actually maintain them and keep them running.

IceLincoln

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 16, 2025, 12:43:58 PM

Great news! Just from plans and newspapers to reality there's still one more step.

I don't think that any government would buy the amount of hardware for running so many nodes. And, in the odd case it would buy and distribute, most of the households would sell that hardware as soon as they get the chance.
Then I don't think that a country like El Salvador has internet coverage for all (or even most!) households. Or you expect people will download the blockchain on mobile data?!

No sorry. It's nice news, but not feasible.

It’s not totally impossible, Yes there are a lot of challenges to overcome at the moment but I think if his Government is willing to achieve it, they can. I think it’s not an immediate project, more like a future projection of what he wants for El Salvador and his enthusiasm for bitcoin.
In the course of achieving this project, a lot of development and enlightenment will come to his country coz first he’ll establish better power resources, increase the accessibility of internet to about 90% of the populace, and proper education on the handling of the hardwares and computers involved.
He’s a leader who has a good vision for his country and he’s been trying his best to take her to the next level. Before his time, not many knew about El Salvador.
Great feats are ACHIEVED by overcoming GREAT CHALLENGES

ABCbits

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 16, 2025, 12:43:58 PM

I don't think that any government would buy the amount of hardware for running so many nodes. And, in the odd case it would buy and distribute, most of the households would sell that hardware as soon as they get the chance.

Or used for other purpose instead, while shutting down the full node software.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 16, 2025, 12:43:58 PM

Then I don't think that a country like El Salvador has internet coverage for all (or even most!) households. Or you expect people will download the blockchain on mobile data?!

They could setup the OS and Bitcoin node in advance, although internet coverage and mobile data issue still exist since the blockchain grow few GB every months.

?

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Quote from: satscraper on January 16, 2025, 12:17:27 PM

Theory which relies on Nakomoto Coefficient to measure network decentralization states that nodes placed at one place are not decentralized at all. Particularly when we talk solely about nodes and try to measure their influence on network decentralization we need to answer following questions

Quote from: https://supra.com/academy/nakamoto-coefficient/

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/01/16/Wdg1d.png

Thus, I insist that contribution of this small country into existing decentralization will be miserable ^{even if the relevant nodes will be installed on every street corner}.

Imagine, for example, currently we have 1,000,000 nodes spread throughout the world, then Nayib Bukele comes with his proposal which wants to make every household in El Salvador run a node.

At the moment: 1,000,000 nodes
Later: 1,000,000 + 1,530,000 nodes

Which is better between the two conditions? don't say you will answer the first one. Then, have you read the entire article from Supra? try opening it again & look carefully at the Client Decentralization section. I don't want to argue about this, just want to make people aware that this is good news, even if it only has a small positive impact, it's still a positive impact.

DubemIfedigbo001

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Quote from: hd49728 on January 15, 2025, 11:27:29 AM

Quote from: IceLincoln on January 15, 2025, 10:26:44 AM

I just saw in a news on Telegram that President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador just announced plans to set up a Bitcoin node in every home.
El Salvador under Bukele does take bitcoin adoption to next level. Now part of daily life, what a bold declaration.

It is only a noisy plan from him, to catch more attention from the world to El Salvador.

Bitcoin network needs more hashrate from Bitcoin miners and more Bitcoin nodes from both Bitcoin mining pools, Bitcoin miners, and Bitcoin users. If people understand helpfulness of a Bitcoin full node, they will run their own full node.

Guides to run a Bitcoin full node are needed.
[Guide] How to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!

I kind of agree with you that this move is all a hype, I don't think he is serious about actualizing this. Bitcoin nodes consume some significant power to run and I don't know how much the country is prepared to contain such electricity consumption from its masses. Initially I was thinking the investments into bitcoin was more in national profitability, but I think it is also good looking into increased security on an individual level to reduce scams and uphold the integrity, security, and privacy on an individual level.

Running a full node helps you enforce the bitcoin ruleset locally, increase the integrity of your transaction by verifying its authenticity and increase privacy by reducing dependency on third-party nodes and I really am impressed/surprised that a government is promoting more decentralization as against wanting to be in control which is always their true nature.

Finally, this is a good move that would help increase the knowledge of bitcoin among the masses, if not for anything, it is good the masses know about more healthy and safer way to engage in bitcoin which is a legal tender in their country.

Agbe

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If El Salvador has strong Internet connection then every home can has bitcoin node and it will be easier for the to make transaction but not in country like mine. We can't download even one small file in a second so how do we operate with node? El Salvador has a good plan for the citizens but he has to create an enabling environment for the citizens and investors to in the country. And since he is focusing on bitcoin investment for all the citizens then he has to invest for technology very high and to make sure that Internet service is for everywhere in the country with one click to open the web. And Road infrastructure which is one of the most important things I discovered in the investment of bitcoin and why, if someone is selling a product in another state in the country and the buyer like to go there and get it or through waybill. And also the data consumption must be look into because not every family can afford the high cost of Internet data.

Antotena

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Quote from: IceLincoln on January 15, 2025, 10:26:44 AM

I just saw in a news on Telegram that President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador just announced plans to set up a Bitcoin node in every home.
El Salvador under Bukele does take bitcoin adoption to next level. Now part of daily life, what a bold declaration.

This is good for decentralization but at the same time, looking centralized without privacy. Anyone can run node and it's should be at the interest of the user. Why would anyone run node when they don't even know what to do with it. It's going to be like Bitcoin force on people and that's not what Bitcoin is about. Anyone interested Bitcoin and want Bitcoin can do the same because the last I checked, the airdrop he did about Bitcoin to a app to make Bitcoin a legal tender are all abandoned.

If he is also willing to incentivize the node runners, I think there is no need for that. They will switch of the node after they are been paid like the last time they did with Bitcoin because everything is been force, they will be patient and do everything along but as soon as they get piad, that's going to be the end of those nodes. I suggest it should be a voluntary action by anyone interested in running it and then surprise them later.

apogio

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 16, 2025, 12:43:58 PM

Then I don't think that a country like El Salvador has internet coverage for all (or even most!) households. Or you expect people will download the blockchain on mobile data?!

This is a severe issue indeed and I am afraid you 're right. However, the nodes aren't too bandwidth consuming, are they? I expect a good research before trying something like this.

NeuroticFish

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Great news! Just from plans and newspapers to reality there's still one more step.

I don't think that any government would buy the amount of hardware for running so many nodes. And, in the odd case it would buy and distribute, most of the households would sell that hardware as soon as they get the chance.
Then I don't think that a country like El Salvador has internet coverage for all (or even most!) households. Or you expect people will download the blockchain on mobile data?!

No sorry. It's nice news, but not feasible.

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Quote from: The Long Run on January 16, 2025, 12:29:23 PM

Bitcoin needs smaller, individual nodes to keep the miner pools from being too dominate, so this is great news.

On the surface it seems like good news but I fear a little bit about overreach when it comes to El Salvador. What happens if someone's Grandma doesn't know how to keep their node operating? Will she be thrown in jail? What if someone doesn't want to run a node or isn't able to for some reason? What happens to them? Does everyone have to pay for internet for this?

As much as I love Bitcoin and love seeing people support it. I don't think people should be forced to support it. This goes against why I got into Bitcoin in the first place.

The Long Run

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Bitcoin needs smaller, individual nodes to keep the miner pools from being too dominate, so this is great news.

avikz

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Quote from: apogio on January 15, 2025, 10:53:37 AM

Quote from: avikz on January 15, 2025, 10:40:04 AM

Now setting up bitcoin node at every home in El-Salvador is another bold move I would say. Because that wouldn't bring in any profit to its citizens. There's no revenue from the node. So I am sure this decision is also going to be highly criticized.

It doesn't have to bring profit.
It literally costs nothing to run a node, but it's super important for all of us. Essentially nodes are for Bitcoin, what lungs are for the human body. Vitally important!

I am very well aware of it. However, it requires a large amount of space to run the node. It requires electricity and a great internet connection to be able to sync the Blockchain. Moreover it needs a computing system.

What I am saying is that, it's a bold decision by the president. A lot of people may not be willing to invest into something which doesn't bring any revenue. So there's a high chance that such decision will be highly criticized.

satscraper

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Quote from: ? on January 15, 2025, 08:50:44 PM

Quote from: satscraper on January 15, 2025, 02:56:37 PM

I don't think that all those 1,530,000 households ^{should they really install nodes} will add too much to degree of Bitcoin decentralization as the latter implies that nodes should be also dispersed over the whole world rather than be placed at geographically narrow area. ^{El Salvador is too small country.}

Agree & disagree.

Agree that nodes should be more spread throughout the world rather than just being centralized in one area, because if a blackout occurs there it will turn off all decentralized power in that area. Disagree because according to theory the greater the number of units running nodes, the higher the level of decentralization of a network.

Theory which relies on Nakomoto Coefficient to measure network decentralization states that nodes placed at one place are not decentralized at all. Particularly when we talk solely about nodes and try to measure their influence on network decentralization we need to answer following questions

Quote from: https://supra.com/academy/nakamoto-coefficient/

Thus, I insist that contribution of this small country into existing decentralization will be miserable ^{even if the relevant nodes will be installed on every street corner}.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: ? on January 15, 2025, 08:50:44 PM

Agree & disagree.

Agree that nodes should be more spread throughout the world rather than just being centralized in one area, because if a blackout occurs there it will turn off all decentralized power in that area. Disagree because according to theory the greater the number of units running nodes, the higher the level of decentralization of a network.

I don't know why there are always such pessimistic people in these threads. There were also pessimistic people when Bukele started buying bitcoin and I'm sure there will be negative people when strategic reserves are set up in various countries.

In a more simplified way, more nodes seem to me to be very good news. Then we can debate whether this concentration of nodes or other aspects are not as positive as they might seem at first glance. But there is one aspect that seems to me to be extremely positive for the population and that I don't see that anyone has commented on: Bukele wants to put a computer in every house, and I doubt very much that every house has a computer as of today in El Salvador.

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Quote from: IceLincoln on January 15, 2025, 10:26:44 AM

This move is a very bold one as the country continues to push the boundaries of bitcoin adoption, it will be interesting to see how this initiative unfolds and what impact it will have on the global crypto economy.
It’s just a declaration until it is done! We are still waiting for the bitcoin city at the base of the conchagua volcano.

As long as he keeps his promise to grow into a bitcoin oriented nation, they are going to benefit a lot more from this. Remember, El Salvador isn't some super wealthy nation, even a billion dollars is a good amount of money for them, this isn't the USA we are talking about, El Salvador could use this attention it's garnering from the crypto community and use that to improve their nation a lot. A nation of 6 million people give or take, so that means if they make enough money, they could literally just live off that without even needing to do much.

We are talking about a nation that is growing enough rich thanks to crypto that, they could just have all the crypto companies in there, every big one could start their headquarters there, and we could see their tax would pay for everything, we could literally have 0% tax on salaries and such, making the nation much better. Hence, it's not like the USA or any other high number of people nation, low population number helps them a lot.

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Quote from: ABCbits on January 16, 2025, 05:16:04 AM

Sorry, but this proposal sound insane. I agree with other member that running full node should be on voluntary basis. Besides, amount of the money could be used for something else such as,
1. More campaign to encourage business accept Bitcoin and citizen to pay with Bitcoin.
2. Buy more Bitcoin into their reserve.
3. Other important national/state project.

Agreed.
The project is great, but the scale would be too much, imo, for the money spent on it, probably.
Lots of other possibilities to get people in better shape than that.

ABCbits

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Sorry, but this proposal sound insane. I agree with other member that running full node should be on voluntary basis. Besides, amount of the money could be used for something else such as,
1. More campaign to encourage business accept Bitcoin and citizen to pay with Bitcoin.
2. Buy more Bitcoin into their reserve.
3. Other important national/state project.

ranochigo

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Quote from: IceLincoln on January 15, 2025, 10:26:44 AM

from making it a legal tender to systematically purchasing Bitcoin to reduce national debt. With favourable regulations and crypto friendly policies the country has positioned itself as home to crypto firms like Bitfinex and Tether recently announcing moving in.

You sure? https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/GGXWDG_NGDP@WEO/SLV?zoom=SLV&highlight=SLV

Running Bitcoin nodes should be voluntary. For a country where a significant portion of the country is living at or below the poverty line, he really does know how to market himself to the crypto community. As a country, he should be focused on his economy and not coming up with frivolous and unrealistic plans or proposals which does nothing to improve his community.

Plaguedeath

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Why Nayib Bukele not just install all the devices at one place and run it? setting up every device at every home is really not effective and efficient, if the device broken, they need to take care each of them and who gonna pay the electricity bills? the idea isn't viable IMO.

It's better for them to strengthening their wallet because in the last year their wallet were hacked.

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I feel jealous about what's happening in El Salvador in terms of Bitcoin growth. While it could be taxing forcing this to happen for every household but the benefits are there if they will look at the brighter side of it. The reason is true, this makes every single person in there to participate in the Bitcoin community and economy. This forces them to learn many aspects that are circulating with Bitcoin from nodes, to markets, to trading, to mining and understanding volatility and the security part of the Bitcoin network, etc.

?

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Quote from: satscraper on January 15, 2025, 02:56:37 PM

I don't think that all those 1,530,000 households ^{should they really install nodes} will add too much to degree of Bitcoin decentralization as the latter implies that nodes should be also dispersed over the whole world rather than be placed at geographically narrow area. ^{El Salvador is too small country.}

Agree & disagree.

Agree that nodes should be more spread throughout the world rather than just being centralized in one area, because if a blackout occurs there it will turn off all decentralized power in that area. Disagree because according to theory the greater the number of units running nodes, the higher the level of decentralization of a network.

Patikno

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El Salvador's move may sound strange and has been widely criticized, but I believe this is the beginning of progress for the country, both in the early stages of building a great economy and will also provide prosperity for its citizens. I wonder why so many people criticize this, even though El Salvador has previously provided evidence by gaining prosperity from Bitcoin. And, not only from the government side but also its citizens have received many good impacts, one of which I read was news about a taxi driver in the country getting benefits and becoming rich because of the El Salvador Government Policy which allows crypto or precisely Bitcoin to be a legal means of payment.

Reference : Watcher - Bitcoin Turns Taxi Driver into Entrepreneur

slapper

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People seek clarity as much as change. The whole idea of a node in every house is both radical and confusing. Nodes build the network, but do they increase household incomes? Maybe yes, maybe no. Though the actual issue is "who benefits," right now it's a glitzy scheme that could increase crypto consumption. Is our goal expanding El Salvador's reputation as a crypto hub or helping regular people?

Education, support, and user-friendly interfaces have to be part of this puzzle. It makes little sense to expose advanced technologies to people who might never experience actual benefit. Here is where legislators either leave their people wondering or accomplish something amazing: integrating decentralization into daily life. I see potential for everyday folks to sidestep traditional banking fees, maybe own their finances, maybe break free from middlemen. If there is no actual plan, though, it will turn into yet another half-finished project like that metropolis close to the volcano. Real actions must accompany bitcoin acceptance or it is to stay a headline with little influence

satscraper

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Quote from: ? on January 15, 2025, 12:38:45 PM

This will add more decentralization level for Bitcoin network,

I don't think that all those 1,530,000 households ^{should they really install nodes} will add too much to degree of Bitcoin decentralization as the latter implies that nodes should be also dispersed over the whole world rather than be placed at geographically narrow area. ^{El Salvador is too small country.}

?

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Good news for the Bitcoin community, I also saw this news on TCR. This will add more decentralization level for Bitcoin network, according to Helgi Library data, as of 2020 there were around 1,530,000 households in El Salvador, which means the addition of 1,530,000 Bitcoin nodes regardless of whether this becomes a necessity or not, but I agree with @apogio's opinion that this it will just be voluntary, because that sounds more reasonable.

Source:
1. https://www.thecoinrepublic.com/2025/01/15/el-salvador-plans-bitcoin-nodes-in-every-home-bold-move-or-illusion
2. https://www.helgilibrary.com/indicators/number-of-households/el-salvador

hd49728

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Quote from: IceLincoln on January 15, 2025, 10:26:44 AM

I just saw in a news on Telegram that President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador just announced plans to set up a Bitcoin node in every home.
El Salvador under Bukele does take bitcoin adoption to next level. Now part of daily life, what a bold declaration.

It is only a noisy plan from him, to catch more attention from the world to El Salvador.

Bitcoin network needs more hashrate from Bitcoin miners and more Bitcoin nodes from both Bitcoin mining pools, Bitcoin miners, and Bitcoin users. If people understand helpfulness of a Bitcoin full node, they will run their own full node.

Guides to run a Bitcoin full node are needed.
[Guide] How to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!

apogio

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Quote from: Callido on January 15, 2025, 11:20:34 AM

Asking, Don't you require electricity to run a node? Asking about profits is not actually bad specifically for those who do not tolerate Bitcoin, sure there are critics and those who wouldn't even with profits attempt to run nodes.

I assume that it won't be mandatory, but rather voluntary. I suppose the government will pay for the instalment.

Yes, the nodes require electricity, but depending on the hardware (of course), the cost of an average node is not easily noticeable on the electricity bill.

Callido

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Is it a mandatory offer or basically optional?

It's a great move from the government, if majority countries can take steps like this, i believe it will be easier for investors and the community, the more privacy and decentralized we can become.

Quote from: apogio on January 15, 2025, 10:53:37 AM

Quote from: avikz on January 15, 2025, 10:40:04 AM

Now setting up bitcoin node at every home in El-Salvador is another bold move I would say. Because that wouldn't bring in any profit to its citizens. There's no revenue from the node. So I am sure this decision is also going to be highly criticized.

It doesn't have to bring profit.
It literally costs nothing to run a node, but it's super important for all of us. Essentially nodes are for Bitcoin, what lungs are for the human body. Vitally important!

Asking, Don't you require electricity to run a node? Asking about profits is not actually bad specifically for those who do not tolerate Bitcoin, sure there are critics and those who wouldn't even with profits attempt to run nodes.

apogio

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Quote from: avikz on January 15, 2025, 10:40:04 AM

Now setting up bitcoin node at every home in El-Salvador is another bold move I would say. Because that wouldn't bring in any profit to its citizens. There's no revenue from the node. So I am sure this decision is also going to be highly criticized.

It doesn't have to bring profit.
It literally costs nothing to run a node, but it's super important for all of us. Essentially nodes are for Bitcoin, what lungs are for the human body. Vitally important!

avikz

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El-Salvador is moving towards the goal. Kuddos to that! It was fairly criticized by their own citizens at the beginning but if we look at it now, it was a great decision!

Now setting up bitcoin node at every home in El-Salvador is another bold move I would say. Because that wouldn't bring in any profit to its citizens. There's no revenue from the node. So I am sure this decision is also going to be highly criticized.

IceLincoln

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I just saw in a news on Telegram that President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador just announced plans to set up a Bitcoin node in every home.
El Salvador under Bukele does take bitcoin adoption to next level. Now part of daily life, what a bold declaration.

Quote

Building this infrastructure will not only strengthen Bitcoin’s decentralized network but also let citizens actively participate in the global crypto economy. We’re witnessing the blockchain becoming a key part of the country’s economy.

El Salvador has already made significant strides in Bitcoin adoption, from making it a legal tender to systematically purchasing Bitcoin to reduce national debt. With favourable regulations and crypto friendly policies the country has positioned itself as home to crypto firms like Bitfinex and Tether recently announcing moving in.

By decentralizing financial services, El Salvador hopes to reduce its reliance on centralized financial institutions and foster economic autonomy among its citizens.
This move is a very bold one as the country continues to push the boundaries of bitcoin adoption, it will be interesting to see how this initiative unfolds and what impact it will have on the global crypto economy.
It’s just a declaration until it is done! We are still waiting for the bitcoin city at the base of the conchagua volcano.

Topic: Bitcoin node at every home (Read 367 times)