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Topic: Bitcoin Price Beats One Apple Share, but Is It Worth Buying? From Yahoo.com (Read 1148 times)

sr. member
Activity: 364
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I am Citizenfive.
The Securities and Exchange Commission, meantime, suggested bitcoins “likely” meet the definition of securities, and thus could be subject to SEC regulation.

I don't see how you concluded this from the quoted article. Or is this just an unrelated naked assertion?

Yes. Source please. It is included as if it was discussed during today's Senate hearing. I've heard only positive reports thus far on Bitcoin's treatment there, so, if the SEC had anything to say at all, surely it was nothing new, and simply that to be a good citizen you should report them as capital gains (presumably losses are okay too?) which was something put in place for the 2012 tax season actually... (iirc it was brought up after early filing had begun, leading to a couple of moderately concerned law-abiding forum residents who had not reported it but would have had they known).
legendary
Activity: 3024
Merit: 1640
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
The Securities and Exchange Commission, meantime, suggested bitcoins “likely” meet the definition of securities, and thus could be subject to SEC regulation.

I don't see how you concluded this from the quoted article. Or is this just an unrelated naked assertion?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
I am Citizenfive.
If we're to do a direct comparison, we need to know, at this instant, how many Apple shares there are, and do they also split, do they pay dividends, etc. Pretending XBT is the stock and Bitcoin is the "company" isn't a completely wacky thing to do, but we do need to set the bounds of comparison.

There currently exist 899.74M shares of AAPL. As of writing, afterhours trading took them to 518.75/share, for a total market cap of 466.74bn USD. AAPL also pays dividends at $3.05/share/qtr, for the last three quarters (before that it was $2.65 for three quarters), etc.

But let's estimate. We're really near the 12M bitcoin mark. So one of them is 1/12Mth the whole. One share of AAPL is 1/900Mth (almost) of the whole. So, relatively speaking, 1 share of AAPL is, as a percent of the whole, 75x smaller than one BTC.

So, when 1 XBT = 38,906.25 USD (ignoring any dividends or growth on Apple's part, so assuming nothing changes other than the Bitcoin price) we can say Bitcoin is bigger than Apple.

But this perception certainly can't do anything but help Bitcoin. (Though I also can't help but wonder if any user too simple to immediately note the above differences intuitively, may be too simple to use Bitcoin at present.)
hero member
Activity: 533
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A nice article but once I got to the end I just shook my head.

It's hard to place value on an idea.

I'll take a Bitcoin over a share of Apple stock now, thank you.
b!z
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1010
Hell yes. Bitcoins do more than apple stocks.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
What your comments on this ..

The Justice Department told Congress that it and all electronic payment technologies have benefits for consumers, while of course asserting it will seek to root out any illicit transactions made in bitcoin. The Securities and Exchange Commission, meantime, suggested bitcoins “likely” meet the definition of securities, and thus could be subject to SEC regulation.

Which means that Bitcoin is consider a legal and legitimate securities  Smiley and will be subject to SEC Regulation?

Here is the story :

    Reuters - One of Bitcoin enthusiast Mike Caldwell's coins in this photo illustration at his office in Sandy, Utah, September 17, 2013. REUTERS/Jim Urquhart/Files

The upstart electronic currency bitcoin has soared from zero five years ago and under $150 apiece six weeks ago to above $600 Monday – more than a share of Apple Inc. (AAPL) is worth, and quite a sum for an instrument with only limited use as money and which few consumers understand.

The confusion surrounding bitcoin, which has attributes both of a currency and a speculative investment, has prompted U.S. authorities to weigh in on its legitimacy.

The Justice Department told Congress that it and all electronic payment technologies have benefits for consumers, while of course asserting it will seek to root out any illicit transactions made in bitcoin. The Securities and Exchange Commission, meantime, suggested bitcoins “likely” meet the definition of securities, and thus could be subject to SEC regulation.

No one needs bitcoins

To begin at a basic level, no one on the planet actually needs bitcoins. Once someone exchanges dollars or another established currency for bitcoins in an online account, there is a growing but still narrow group of Web merchants and physical retailers, including WordPress.com and two Subway stores, that accept it as payment. True, transaction volumes are soaring, though from a very low base. At today’s price, the total value of bitcoin in circulation is $7 billion. To make a slightly unfair comparison, the amount of physical U.S. currency in circulation is $1.2 trillion.

Bitcoins are “mined,” or created, by programmers who set their computers to compete to solve math problems. The pace of creation of new bitcoins, now about 12 million, is set in advance. The supply of bitcoins will ultimately peak, forever, at 21 million.

[See related: Bitcoin Couple Travels the World Using Virtual Cash]

Each bitcoin can be divided into ever-tinier pieces to use in transactions, and the price per bitcoin is theoretically unlimited, so advocates of the currency say its market value can continue growing after that cap is reached.

Still, the perception of built-in scarcity is clearly driving the speculative surge in bitcoin’s value, while simultaneously diluting its utility as a currency. Neither buyers nor sellers of goods and services would want to rely on prices set in a medium of exchange that can swing so violently in value relative to other currencies or “real” assets.

The supply cap in bitcoin seems ultimately suited to encourage saving, or hoarding, them – especially to the extent a buyer believes they will become more mainstream over time. It is implicitly “deflationary,” or likely to pressure prices lower in bitcoin terms, which itself creates incentives to forestall spending and save more.

The main philosophical benefits of bitcoin are its decentralized creation and processing protocols, free of any government control or endorsement; the anonymity of bitcoin users; global fungibility; and the fact that, unlike traditional money controlled by central banks, it can’t be created without limit. On the flipside, it has no intrinsic value, the encryption and processing system is untested and government action could, in theory, restrict or forbid its use.

A complicated evolution

Bitcoin’s historical association with illicit trade in drugs, weapons and money laundering has also complicated its evolution. When the rogue online underground site Silk Road was shuttered by authorities Oct. 2, it reportedly left a trove of bitcoins frozen out of circulation. This might have fueled the recent rise in price as it created acute scarcity and left those who owe money in bitcoin scrambling to secure some.

Also, newly created programs effective at “mining” bitcoin more quickly may have sidelined less-efficient traditional Bitcoin creators, concentrating the number of suppliers and encouraging more hoarding. The opening of a popular Chinese bitcoin exchange, BTC China, has also been said to have drawn eager mainland buyers of the virtual currency. BTC China recently became the largest trading platform for bitcoin, replacing Mt. Gox.

[See related: First ATM Offering Bitcoins Opens in Vancouver]



Nearly everyone on all sides of the debate over the legitimacy and usefulness of bitcoin grants the intellectual impetus and technological infrastructure behind bitcoin are brilliant. And the world of mobile, global, electronic payments is advancing quickly along a number of fronts, while concerns about central-bank money creation have become more intense.

But this doesn’t mean that bitcoin at $550 or $600 or so – or at any price much higher or lower – is anything but a speculative frenzy with a techno-idealist overlay.

For about the same number of dollars as it takes to buy a single bitcoin now, one could by a share of Apple that represents about 1/900 millionth ownership of the most valuable company in the world. This entitles the holder to $12.20 a share in cash dividends a year (which will likely grow) and a small voting say in who governs the company. While its price can  – and sometimes does – stray far from any sober calculation of underlying value, it represents a claim on Apple’s future cash flows in perpetuity; this year’s per-share profit is on track to exceed $40.

Though there is no cap on how many Apple shares can be created, the company is now committed to shrinking its share count through a huge stock buyback. In a distressed scenario currently hard to imagine, that Apple share would probably be worth at least something in a corporate liquidation.

Sure, no one “needs” to own Apple either. But at least paying $523 for the stock now doesn’t require one to have a strong view on the sustainability of an online feeding frenzy, the opinions of government authorities as to the legitimacy of the securities or the very future of money for the next millennium.
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