Bitcoin price drop but institutional investors on Bakkt are buying like crazy!

piebeyb

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Quote from: bitvalak on November 25, 2019, 06:35:51 AM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 25, 2019, 05:20:53 AM

Quote from: bassbity on November 25, 2019, 04:11:00 AM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 24, 2019, 09:55:11 AM

lucky for those who still have large funds to take over bitcoin from the hands of people who are weak and easy to panic, I also often say this stay away from the mass media because they have a real FUD, but I can't hold those who are starting to feel panicked I hope they can buy it below the price they sell it, I already suspected this about this Grin

The panic person will sell all the assets he has and not think long about his future, I also still save some funds to buy at prices like this I will not be influenced by any FUD news this is an opportunity for us to start buying at a price that is it's cheaper that the whale wants too.

yes at least we all don't blame them and force them to do HODL, all traders' decisions and every risk is borne by each trader, so whatever happens now don't make yourself controlled by emotions and panic, if you have other funds you can take cheap at this time, I am also waiting to take the best moment to buy it, bitcoin does not require weak traders and bitcoin needs people who believe, do not choose the people on your left who go and panic at the price of bitcoin

In fact there are more people who panic than people who can control their emotions.
But the good thing will be selected where people who really want bitcoin, if prices are still held below current prices I think tomorrow there will still be a queue that will panic sell Cheesy

that's why I always recommend my people to trade in a good mood, I don't hold back at current prices and don't care about bitcoin prices going up or down, let them panic selling because I'm not trying to hold their decision to sell, so I just give advice just take it easy, try to keep up with the current market and wait for it to really get into 2020

darkangel11

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Volatility always brings people to the market because deep inside all people are gamblers and want to feel the thrill and get some money fast.
Bakkt volume is going up but what if all those people who buy contracts there are shorting? Have you thought about that?

On second thought, even if they are shorting bakkt has to provide physical bitcoins to cover the trades so even when you are shorting they have to buy more to have enough BTC to cover the contracts. This should at least for now push the price up.

LUCKMCFLY

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Everything that has to do with BAKKT I see it in a very positive way, because new investors are entering, many say that BAKKT had a negative impact on the market, I see it differently, I think the market went down due to the purchases that They began to give, and the best way to buy is cheap and that is why I think there were many Shorts.

The long-term impact of BAKKT will be positive, market liquidity may increase as the price increases.

In this article I like his approach:https://decrypt.co/11976/bakkt-sees-record-bitcoin-trading-after-market-crash he has collected information that may be of current interest.

Wexlike

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Quote from: Theb on November 25, 2019, 02:38:12 PM

Quote from: boris singer on November 25, 2019, 06:50:41 AM

Bakkt always moves slower than ordinary markets, is this just my mind? I am just a little immune to fud, the institution always benefits from this, some of the panic things that I did in the conversion of usdt in the end still have to think clearly that the trend may not always be like now, I just protect the value of my assets for some time.

I don't think that they move slower per se but they are just waiting for the right time to buy and sell any asset. These is how financial institution works they don't participate with the noise happening around the market and they just wait for things to settle down a bit or if they decided to join the noise they'll make sure that their participation would result in a short which they have a power to do so, just by joining the noise with a little effort they are just risking all the money they have for nothing. At least when they participated buying BTC back at around the 6,500$ area it instantly paid off for them, they might also be the reason why BTC prevented to go down more with a little help of some whales of course.

I think they are the first on the market with a physical(lol) delivered bitcoin product. So definitely not a slow mover. I agree with all the rest of what you said.

Theb

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Quote from: boris singer on November 25, 2019, 06:50:41 AM

Bakkt always moves slower than ordinary markets, is this just my mind? I am just a little immune to fud, the institution always benefits from this, some of the panic things that I did in the conversion of usdt in the end still have to think clearly that the trend may not always be like now, I just protect the value of my assets for some time.

I don't think that they move slower per se but they are just waiting for the right time to buy and sell any asset. These is how financial institution works they don't participate with the noise happening around the market and they just wait for things to settle down a bit or if they decided to join the noise they'll make sure that their participation would result in a short which they have a power to do so, just by joining the noise with a little effort they are just risking all the money they have for nothing. At least when they participated buying BTC back at around the 6,500$ area it instantly paid off for them, they might also be the reason why BTC prevented to go down more with a little help of some whales of course.

exstasie

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on November 24, 2019, 11:03:45 PM

Some hedge funders out there appear to have made a stronger bet on the short side of the CME bitcoin futures market over the past week, data from the Commodities Futures Trading Commission shows.

As per a research report by The Block's Ryan Todd, hedge funds were overwhelmingly short during the week of November 12th compared to the sell-side, asset managers, and other groups. Specifically, net short positioning (Short OI - Long OI) among hedge funds that trade the CME bitcoin product was at an all time high over the last two weeks of COT report prints.

Not surprising given the magnitude of the decline.

Fortunately this gives us a glimpse of overall commitment of traders and market sentiment: the market is heavily short and expecting lower prices. Bitfinex shorts are also up 56% from the low at the October close. The Crypto Fear & Greed Index is also comfortably back in "Extreme Fear." I've even had two friends ask me if/when they can buy in the $3,000s.

All of these point to a major bullish reversal on the horizon. This is our "darkest before dawn" moment. The low $6,000s is an excellent long term buying range for those with the balls to catch the knife.

Harlot

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Chances are they are also the ones who have started the price drop/correction in the first place if they aren't the ones then other whales have planned to do this kind of sell off to trigger some kind of correction so that they can short Bitcoin. It's that obvious since after it went down to 6,500$ it quickly got back up to around the 7,200$. I've seen this kind of price movements before and I haven't panic since 2017. These kinds of price drops where I am too late to short Bitcoin is I know myself that it's too late to cut Bitcoin and I just have to wait their quick recovery of it and so it did the correction didn't last for 24 hours and I am happy with the quick recover that Bitcoin did this late in the day.

Febo

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 23, 2019, 03:48:51 AM

Bitcoin price drop but institutional investors on Bakkt are buying like crazy!

$20 million is by far nor crazy amount. But right the opposite, it is extremely little. Until there will be at least $100 million traded on BAKKT every single day ( except weekends of course ), BAKKT will be of little importance.

boris singer

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Bakkt always moves slower than ordinary markets, is this just my mind? I am just a little immune to fud, the institution always benefits from this, some of the panic things that I did in the conversion of usdt in the end still have to think clearly that the trend may not always be like now, I just protect the value of my assets for some time.

bitvalak

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Quote from: piebeyb on November 25, 2019, 05:20:53 AM

Quote from: bassbity on November 25, 2019, 04:11:00 AM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 24, 2019, 09:55:11 AM

lucky for those who still have large funds to take over bitcoin from the hands of people who are weak and easy to panic, I also often say this stay away from the mass media because they have a real FUD, but I can't hold those who are starting to feel panicked I hope they can buy it below the price they sell it, I already suspected this about this Grin

The panic person will sell all the assets he has and not think long about his future, I also still save some funds to buy at prices like this I will not be influenced by any FUD news this is an opportunity for us to start buying at a price that is it's cheaper that the whale wants too.

yes at least we all don't blame them and force them to do HODL, all traders' decisions and every risk is borne by each trader, so whatever happens now don't make yourself controlled by emotions and panic, if you have other funds you can take cheap at this time, I am also waiting to take the best moment to buy it, bitcoin does not require weak traders and bitcoin needs people who believe, do not choose the people on your left who go and panic at the price of bitcoin

In fact there are more people who panic than people who can control their emotions.
But the good thing will be selected where people who really want bitcoin, if prices are still held below current prices I think tomorrow there will still be a queue that will panic sell Cheesy

piebeyb

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Quote from: bassbity on November 25, 2019, 04:11:00 AM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 24, 2019, 09:55:11 AM

lucky for those who still have large funds to take over bitcoin from the hands of people who are weak and easy to panic, I also often say this stay away from the mass media because they have a real FUD, but I can't hold those who are starting to feel panicked I hope they can buy it below the price they sell it, I already suspected this about this Grin

The panic person will sell all the assets he has and not think long about his future, I also still save some funds to buy at prices like this I will not be influenced by any FUD news this is an opportunity for us to start buying at a price that is it's cheaper that the whale wants too.

yes at least we all don't blame them and force them to do HODL, all traders' decisions and every risk is borne by each trader, so whatever happens now don't make yourself controlled by emotions and panic, if you have other funds you can take cheap at this time, I am also waiting to take the best moment to buy it, bitcoin does not require weak traders and bitcoin needs people who believe, do not choose the people on your left who go and panic at the price of bitcoin

bassbity

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Quote from: piebeyb on November 24, 2019, 09:55:11 AM

lucky for those who still have large funds to take over bitcoin from the hands of people who are weak and easy to panic, I also often say this stay away from the mass media because they have a real FUD, but I can't hold those who are starting to feel panicked I hope they can buy it below the price they sell it, I already suspected this about this Grin

The panic person will sell all the assets he has and not think long about his future, I also still save some funds to buy at prices like this I will not be influenced by any FUD news this is an opportunity for us to start buying at a price that is it's cheaper that the whale wants too.

bbc.reporter

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However, some hedge funds are shorting CME bitcoin futures to hedge out risk from their exposure on bitcoins. This is the game they play similar to the punters of sportsbetting on getting tips and news from each other and use it.

They do not care about the cryptospace.

Some hedge funders out there appear to have made a stronger bet on the short side of the CME bitcoin futures market over the past week, data from the Commodities Futures Trading Commission shows.

As per a research report by The Block's Ryan Todd, hedge funds were overwhelmingly short during the week of November 12th compared to the sell-side, asset managers, and other groups. Specifically, net short positioning (Short OI - Long OI) among hedge funds that trade the CME bitcoin product was at an all time high over the last two weeks of COT report prints.

To be sure, the data only shows net positioning of CME bitcoin futures; funds could still be exposed to the underlying spot on the long side and using bitcoin futures to hedge out risk.

Read in full https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/48268/hedge-funds-were-short-bitcoin-going-into-this-downturn-cftc-reports-show

pooya87

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since that number is the "volume" not the "buy volume" alone, we can't make that conclusion that it is all buys. but at the same time the spike shows more activity so even if only a potion of it is "buys" then it still is indicating an increase in purchases. and logically that makes sense too since every time the price is manipulated and goes down to unrealistic lows there is some big whales who are shorting it during the drop and buying lots of bitcoin as the drop comes to an end which is the case the closer we get to the end of the drop and the panic sells.

Beparanf

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Many will sure to take advantage on this week's dump. I'm also Acqua ring some BTC but its not enough to make the market move unlike those whales that can manipulate the market. Good are those in bakkt that can get this time to potentially buy more they wanted in a lower price.

piebeyb

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lucky for those who still have large funds to take over bitcoin from the hands of people who are weak and easy to panic, I also often say this stay away from the mass media because they have a real FUD, but I can't hold those who are starting to feel panicked I hope they can buy it below the price they sell it, I already suspected this about this Grin

Wexnident

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Quote from: Ayiranorea on November 23, 2019, 08:26:40 PM

At least now the the investment is increasing more and more which was expected to happen by the launch of Bakkt. Bitcoin price drop is quite big over the past few days. Today there is strong growth in the market, maybe the buying potential have increased based on the drop. These days panic about the market fluctuations were very low which too seems to be a reason for institutional investors showing interest over Bakkt.

I guess we can hold on to Bakkt to save the day and stop the bearish season? It is a bit too early to tell, I know. But with Bakkt's recent achievements of another ATH with traded volumes in their site, it is a positive sign for most of us out here. Although it could be just a short-lived occurrence, Bakkt with it promising to deliver its results in the span of a year seems more and more likely now. Instead of showing it in one full bomb, they instead spread it around and wait for some time before *BAM*, massive fireworks for everyone to see.

ecnalubma

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Real investors are juicing from the fear of weak holders. Somehow Chinese FUD’s are effective way to shake the market and its an obvious strategy of used by manipulators in previous years, I think investors should become more rational thinkers to be not easily victim by this repeating manipulation strategy.

Ayiranorea

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At least now the the investment is increasing more and more which was expected to happen by the launch of Bakkt. Bitcoin price drop is quite big over the past few days. Today there is strong growth in the market, maybe the buying potential have increased based on the drop. These days panic about the market fluctuations were very low which too seems to be a reason for institutional investors showing interest over Bakkt.

exstasie

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Quote from: 1Referee on November 23, 2019, 04:47:15 PM

Quote from: exstasie on November 23, 2019, 03:18:31 PM

Why is it bad, exactly?

It's bad because it reduces the demand for spot Bitcoin. Pretty self explanatory, right?

No. How does the CME market do that?

Quote from: 1Referee on November 23, 2019, 04:47:15 PM

Quote from: exstasie on November 23, 2019, 03:18:31 PM

CME (or Bitmex) can't be used to push prices around so it doesn't matter how many shorts or longs pile on. There is no mechanism to make the spot markets follow them; they won't. However, large traders can take positions on CME or Bitmex and then pump/dump on spot exchanges, and I'm sure that's exactly what is happening.

There have been plenty of instances where bots do replicate the movements of CME and Bitmex. Perhaps not to the exact dollar, but close enough is close enough.

I've never seen any examples of that, let alone proof that there is a statistical correlation. Logically it just doesn't make sense since there is no arbitrage pressure to drive prices towards CME or Bitmex prices. There is arbitrage pressure to drive CME and Bitmex prices towards spot, since their index/reference rate is based on constituent spot exchange prices.

In other words, CME traders very much care what spot exchanges say the price is. The spot markets have absolutely no reason to care what CME does though. Volume doesn't matter in this respect because no BTC is being traded on CME.

Quote from: 1Referee on November 23, 2019, 04:47:15 PM

It makes sense as well because those trading at CME are most likely institutional players (which is where most of the demand came from this year), and the volumes are well above that what spot exchanges generate.

That supports the theory that institutions take positions on CME and then push spot exchanges on low volume. That makes a lot more sense than bots on spot exchanges following CME.

samcrypto

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Quote from: aardvark15 on November 23, 2019, 10:57:00 AM

I’ve said this in a previous topic. When people are panic selling, the big boys are waiting until the best possible low price to buy. They are just waiting for this kind of situation.

This is why panicking is not good because whales are just waiting at the bottom and if they did that, the easy pump will happen again. We have to think like them, buy when its cheap and don’t sold while your bitcoin is at loss. The potential pump with bitcoin is still here, it can’t be stop so have patience because the good news will come again. Its pretty huge volume, its good that BAKKT slowly gaining the trust of the public.

BitHodler

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Quote from: Lucius on November 23, 2019, 09:16:36 AM

The speculations say Bakkt bought about 100,000 Bitcoins (which was supposedly the reason for the pump to $14k), is there any public information on how much has been spent so far?

Unfunded speculation. Similarly, there is a lot of unfunded speculation about Bakkt not having any coins in storage. I seriously wonder if anyone has tried to actually withdraw the "physically" delivered Bitcoins.

If Bakkt actually bought 100k BTC they wouldn't do that through exchanges but through private OTC deals (which they had a full year in time for), and these deals don't have an impact on the price. I'm still not impressed by Bakkt.

1Referee

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Quote from: exstasie on November 23, 2019, 03:18:31 PM

Why is it bad, exactly?

It's bad because it reduces the demand for spot Bitcoin. Pretty self explanatory, right?

Quote from: exstasie on November 23, 2019, 03:18:31 PM

CME (or Bitmex) can't be used to push prices around so it doesn't matter how many shorts or longs pile on. There is no mechanism to make the spot markets follow them; they won't. However, large traders can take positions on CME or Bitmex and then pump/dump on spot exchanges, and I'm sure that's exactly what is happening.

There have been plenty of instances where bots do replicate the movements of CME and Bitmex. Perhaps not to the exact dollar, but close enough is close enough. It makes sense as well because those trading at CME are most likely institutional players (which is where most of the demand came from this year), and the volumes are well above that what spot exchanges generate.

sikke

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I would not jump to your conclusions solely looking at the graphs, because volume at a derivatives exchange can be almost nothing in terms of indicating the positions that they are taking out, and whether or not they have long term vested interest.

Besides, the increase in volume is almost negligible still when compared to major exchanges which have billions in turnover each day.

But I actually wouldn't be surprised if institutional investors are loading up right now, just because of the fact that halving is not far away and prices are undervalued significantly. DCA is the way to go for individual investors too.

exstasie

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Quote from: 1Referee on November 23, 2019, 08:59:03 AM

The advantage of bakkt over cme is that you can't short more than the number of coins bakkt has in its reserves. At cme the only limit is what you can afford to pay for a short. Very bad.

Why is it bad, exactly?

Cash settlement means the market operates like any CFD instrument, so CME shorts are limited by bid side liquidity. They can't short more than buyers are willing to long. It's functionally no different than the Bitmex perpetual swap in that way.

CME (or Bitmex) can't be used to push prices around so it doesn't matter how many shorts or longs pile on. There is no mechanism to make the spot markets follow them; they won't. However, large traders can take positions on CME or Bitmex and then pump/dump on spot exchanges, and I'm sure that's exactly what is happening.

aardvark15

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I’ve said this in a previous topic. When people are panic selling, the big boys are waiting until the best possible low price to buy. They are just waiting for this kind of situation.

panganib999

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 23, 2019, 03:48:51 AM

This is the time to buy my friends and if you already own some bitcoins to hoard them. Do not fall for the Chinese fud that are being spread in the

mass media and on social media platforms, because it is just smoke & mirrors. Angry

Have been already enlightened with the Chinese way of FUD. Announcement of bans have been ongoing for a long time now and yet nothing has happened as of yet. Although the timing of the news and the drop are quite scary, it is possibly in the end FUD that is coordinated by the Chinese. Plus, without BTC even reaching the lowest it could go possible, investing in BTC is still quite worthwhile and would last as long as it could possibly go for.

tsaroz

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If you want to make a profit, you should buy on a decreased market and sell on an increased market. If the market keeps on decreasing, you should buy more to decrease your average cost. Bitcoin is at one of the lowest price in last 3 months and we can easily predict the price would jump up. Whales investors could easily profit on short price fluctuations.

Lucius

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Although some believe that things happen by accident, when it comes to profit and big money nothing happens by accident. Those on the top use all available methods to profit, and as we can see, they are doing very well.

Panic sale of weak hands, people acting like the end of the world has come, new accounts spreading FUD, Bitcoin has been declared dead once again, the bubble has burst... In the meantime, those who are aware of the opportunity are buying cheaply and there is no doubt that they will sell at a much higher price when the time comes.

The speculations say Bakkt bought about 100,000 Bitcoins (which was supposedly the reason for the pump to $14k), is there any public information on how much has been spent so far?

1Referee

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The volume reported by bakkt consists of both longs and shorts. I however do not know what the exact ratio is between the two since they do not publish it publicly (this very likely requires you to have an institutional account at ICE). Considering that institutions are technical buyers/sellers, it's safe to say that there are more shorts than longs right now with how ugly the charts look.

The advantage of bakkt over cme is that you can't short more than the number of coins bakkt has in its reserves. At cme the only limit is what you can afford to pay for a short. Very bad.

Kprawn

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Source : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/e0f545/new_alltimehigh_ath_on_bakkt_2728_contracts_2030m/

So you think this is really a massive Bitcoin dump going on? Guess again, the big boys are running in the opposite direction. Roll Eyes

We panic so quickly,

but we also forget very quickly where we were in January 2019. ($3000)

This is the time to buy my friends and if you already own some bitcoins to hoard them. Do not fall for the Chinese fud that are being spread in the

mass media and on social media platforms, because it is just smoke & mirrors. Angry

Topic: Bitcoin price drop but institutional investors on Bakkt are buying like crazy! (Read 323 times)