Bitcoin price manipulation are becoming too obvious now.

wxa7115

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Quote from: el kaka22 on November 22, 2019, 10:10:06 AM

I think whenever bitcoin price drops people worry that it is a manipulation and that is a good thing. The reason for it is being a good thing is that people think the only way bitcoin could drop in price is if someone actually manipulates the price. Normally there is no reason for bitcoin to be low price, everyone that uses it likes it, it makes peoples lives better, it is a better store of value than anything in the world and it certainly beats fiat in any race.

Still, the price sometimes falls, so people say the only reason it could fall is some whale selling to buy more later and manipulating the price, that means peoples perspective of bitcoin is always bull but we just can't afford to fight against whales and that is understandable but whales can't always afford to fight with us neither, in the end they will have to join the bull side to make more money.

This is an interesting take about what it is happening and in a way you are right, we think so highly of bitcoin that many think that the only way it can go down is if the price is somehow being manipulated by the whales of the market, but at the same time we need to recognize the truth while the whales have the power to move the markets, in order to produce extreme results they need the help of all of us so if we see a huge crash or a huge increase in the price then everyone was involved in it.

We must understand that despite the power the whales hold they are not omnipotent and they cannot move the market completely as they wish.

dragon695

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This was obvious in 2018 and people called it an explosive bubble. strong shocks are deliberate for many sharks. they are willing to manipulate bitcoin to buy more now and wait for a suitable time to pump it up again. When trading in a market full of manipulation, we need to be smart and alert in trading to make more money.

Hallmader

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Quote from: ajeef on November 23, 2019, 09:34:14 PM

Quote from: Slow death on November 23, 2019, 02:18:02 PM

Imagine if a person has a financial crisis in his country and to protect himself from this crisis buy bitcoin for $ 9200, two months later he sees that the price has dropped from $9200 to $5500 and at that time he needs to sell to cover his expenses and will have to sell with great losses. Price manipulation is a big evil that has been hurting the crypto world for years

Whoever buying crypto when they have a financial crysis is the worst ide i've heard, because investing in crypto is too risky and people who investing in crypto usually using their free money which money that they can afford to lose. Cryptocurrency is hard and the price never be predicted, it could be manipulated by the whales and also the coin's owner itself, so we don't have to place too much expectation when we invested in crpyto

But this is true in many countries where the financial crisis is getting worse everyday. We take a little reference to the countries in South America where their fiat currency is fast losing value and the inflation is very high, very much beyond the tolerable percentage level. Venezuela and Argentina are two example countries where Bitcoin or cryptocurrency has become an alternative store of value if in case their fiat will turn into the worst possibility and become worthless.

ajeef

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Quote from: Slow death on November 23, 2019, 02:18:02 PM

Imagine if a person has a financial crisis in his country and to protect himself from this crisis buy bitcoin for $ 9200, two months later he sees that the price has dropped from $9200 to $5500 and at that time he needs to sell to cover his expenses and will have to sell with great losses. Price manipulation is a big evil that has been hurting the crypto world for years

Whoever buying crypto when they have a financial crysis is the worst ide i've heard, because investing in crypto is too risky and people who investing in crypto usually using their free money which money that they can afford to lose. Cryptocurrency is hard and the price never be predicted, it could be manipulated by the whales and also the coin's owner itself, so we don't have to place too much expectation when we invested in crpyto

cryptothreads

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Quote from: Slow death on November 23, 2019, 02:18:02 PM

Imagine if a person has a financial crisis in his country and to protect himself from this crisis buy bitcoin for $ 9200, two months later he sees that the price has dropped from $9200 to $5500 and at that time he needs to sell to cover his expenses and will have to sell with great losses. Price manipulation is a big evil that has been hurting the crypto world for years

This happens in any market so this problem is really normal. I think that before investing, everyone needs to have a specific investment plan and if it is not possible to make a profit, it is best to keep stable coins or fiat because these are two options to help you ensure your assets when participating. In fact, when investing in Bitcoin, everyone has been warned and if you accept the investment, you should also learn to accept risks.

For the time being, people still believe in Bitcoin, so it is certain that the coin will soon rebound and will soon return to the $10,000 price early next year.

Slow death

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Imagine if a person has a financial crisis in his country and to protect himself from this crisis buy bitcoin for $ 9200, two months later he sees that the price has dropped from $9200 to $5500 and at that time he needs to sell to cover his expenses and will have to sell with great losses. Price manipulation is a big evil that has been hurting the crypto world for years

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Quote from: Kambal2000 on November 22, 2019, 10:27:36 AM

Quote from: akmal1984 on November 22, 2019, 07:24:32 AM

I feel I was really hit with the current market conditions. Because the decline in the price of bitcoin also causes a decrease in altcoin. Just last week I bought an alt coin and now the price is far from my purchase price. But I will immediately remember the history of the previous bitcoin and altcoin where the market will definitely be green again. But now I have to be patient not to make a cut loss

We know that Bitcoin is too volatile, yes the price now is really ridiculous and was unexpected, but as per traders and experts said that it will bounce back too, so let's patiently wait as for sure this will be happen, it is manipulated, yes, so we should be aware and we should be ready all the time, price monitoring from time to time should be a must except if you are long term holder.

Instead of entirely relying on traders and experts, the best would be to do your own research and come up with the reasons behind the high expectations from bitcoin. If you will not develop habit of doing work on your own, life will become difficult and depressing. The main reason why bitcoin holders are expecting huge pump is the halving that will be happening in next year. It results in increment values.

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Quote from: el kaka22 on November 22, 2019, 10:10:06 AM

I think whenever bitcoin price drops people worry that it is a manipulation and that is a good thing. The reason for it is being a good thing is that people think the only way bitcoin could drop in price is if someone actually manipulates the price. Normally there is no reason for bitcoin to be low price, everyone that uses it likes it, it makes peoples lives better, it is a better store of value than anything in the world and it certainly beats fiat in any race.

Still, the price sometimes falls, so people say the only reason it could fall is some whale selling to buy more later and manipulating the price, that means peoples perspective of bitcoin is always bull but we just can't afford to fight against whales and that is understandable but whales can't always afford to fight with us neither, in the end they will have to join the bull side to make more money.

Heres one why do manipulation is becoming too obvious right now: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bithumb-quashes-shanghai-office-closure-rumors-after-binance-denial

A typical stuff that do happen not only to Forex and stocks market but also to this one.There would always those who are on top which would lead out the market.

Kambal2000

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Quote from: akmal1984 on November 22, 2019, 07:24:32 AM

I feel I was really hit with the current market conditions. Because the decline in the price of bitcoin also causes a decrease in altcoin. Just last week I bought an alt coin and now the price is far from my purchase price. But I will immediately remember the history of the previous bitcoin and altcoin where the market will definitely be green again. But now I have to be patient not to make a cut loss

We know that Bitcoin is too volatile, yes the price now is really ridiculous and was unexpected, but as per traders and experts said that it will bounce back too, so let's patiently wait as for sure this will be happen, it is manipulated, yes, so we should be aware and we should be ready all the time, price monitoring from time to time should be a must except if you are long term holder.

el kaka22

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I think whenever bitcoin price drops people worry that it is a manipulation and that is a good thing. The reason for it is being a good thing is that people think the only way bitcoin could drop in price is if someone actually manipulates the price. Normally there is no reason for bitcoin to be low price, everyone that uses it likes it, it makes peoples lives better, it is a better store of value than anything in the world and it certainly beats fiat in any race.

Still, the price sometimes falls, so people say the only reason it could fall is some whale selling to buy more later and manipulating the price, that means peoples perspective of bitcoin is always bull but we just can't afford to fight against whales and that is understandable but whales can't always afford to fight with us neither, in the end they will have to join the bull side to make more money.

akmal1984

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I feel I was really hit with the current market conditions. Because the decline in the price of bitcoin also causes a decrease in altcoin. Just last week I bought an alt coin and now the price is far from my purchase price. But I will immediately remember the history of the previous bitcoin and altcoin where the market will definitely be green again. But now I have to be patient not to make a cut loss

zeze18

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Quote from: Google+ on November 22, 2019, 03:33:02 AM

currently a lot of speculation is circulating and states that the prediction is correct but you should know that the price condition of cryptocurrency can never be predicted unless you have a lot of money capital and have a team that can spread bad news or good news that can provide price movements because many will be affected by information circulating on the internet.

Media has a great power of affecting the price because of the news, moreover the news from china usually can pump and dump the price significantly just like right now it's because the central bank of china was said they're anti of cryptocurrency and media spread the news and the price dropped so deep

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Quote from: lienfaye on November 22, 2019, 01:54:15 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We know manipulation is real but it becomes predictable? For me still the prices are too much unpredictable and the rate increases only by days passes,even we met 6% price dump on the bitcoin price seriously anyone expected this?

The market is in red status, is this because of the manipulation? In the past history this situation already happened and just repeating itself. I dont think market is predictable because if it does then many investors sell everytime there's a price recovery and they should not wait for further growth of their coins.

Seeing the coins in red status can trigger those weak investors to panic sell. If whales are waiting for major dump of these investors so they can buy back then this situation wont stay for long we can expect a recovery.

In the last 2 days, the market continued to go downtrend and this makes things more and more difficult in the future. Currently there are not many good options for investors and you should be more careful when trading because large fluctuations can greatly affect current profits. In my opinion if whales continue to manipulate this market then surely in the next few years you will not be able to make any profit.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

We know manipulation is real but it becomes predictable? For me still the prices are too much unpredictable and the rate increases only by days passes,even we met 6% price dump on the bitcoin price seriously anyone expected this?

Agree, although there is some indication to the pattern of pump and dump but no one really know. The dump and pump always leave people who have no idea failed to predict anything even all these events are just abstract to begin with.
It can be either price manipulation or people just following the pattern. There are some trading analyst or so called "Expert" out there that are giving the pattern to every movement of the price which I dont believe ofcourse but that can become self fulfilling prophecy.

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currently a lot of speculation is circulating and states that the prediction is correct but you should know that the price condition of cryptocurrency can never be predicted unless you have a lot of money capital and have a team that can spread bad news or good news that can provide price movements because many will be affected by information circulating on the internet.

lienfaye

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Quote from: ?? on ??

We know manipulation is real but it becomes predictable? For me still the prices are too much unpredictable and the rate increases only by days passes,even we met 6% price dump on the bitcoin price seriously anyone expected this?

The market is in red status, is this because of the manipulation? In the past history this situation already happened and just repeating itself. I dont think market is predictable because if it does then many investors sell everytime there's a price recovery and they should not wait for further growth of their coins.

Seeing the coins in red status can trigger those weak investors to panic sell. If whales are waiting for major dump of these investors so they can buy back then this situation wont stay for long we can expect a recovery.

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Quote from: Harlot on November 11, 2019, 02:42:15 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

sure not to make the price too volatile, because that would scare merchants and it will hamper merchant adoption. So, how low are we going this

I'm sure that the whales don't care about merchant adoption since all there care about is Bitcoin having a price on which they can be traded it on. Merchant adoption for them is nothing as long as someone in the exchange or another buyer is willing to buy their Bitcoin or crypto on the price they are asking because in the end money is really what they want. If we will consider the price movement we are experiencing now it would still be considered as too volatile for merchants to accept but the good thing is merchants don't follow the price of Bitcoin itself but instead they BTC follows the USD value of the product which can justify why volatility isn't a relevant factor for merchant adoption since BTC quantity quickly adjust for the prices set by merchants and it's really up to them if they want to hodl and handle the risk or liquidate and avoid it.

of course they have no clue about what actually could be done with bitcoin , they don't believe in the vision.

but they do care about how making money through the free market with what they call as a low capitalization compared to commodities market , making them to think that a couple million dollars could easily change the trend and guess it works.
there is a group of people who own billions dollar detected moving their 100000 bitcoins in early september 2019 this is pretty obvious one of the reason why by the end of september the price surge to $10000 easily.

and i still believe a lot of people with those buying/selling powers are in the game of bear now.

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Quote from: Oceat on November 20, 2019, 04:47:46 PM

Quote from: tenakha on November 11, 2019, 05:18:00 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

Bitcoin price manipulation are becoming too obvious now.

On the contrary, as time goes by, this is going to decrease further. Increasing value and more alertness of the community can counter this slightly. Actually this is normal in the decentralized system. But if decentralization is not important to you, regulation is necessary to counter it. Through the regulation it will be possible to follow the deposits and withdrawals. And tale ends happily. lol

Price manipulation is still going to happen in the future even if Bitcoin decreases due to the halving effect. The price may grow unexpectedly in the future but price manipulator are always present in an open market just like this cryptocurrency. Luckily Bitcoin is decentralized and no regulations or whatsoever that can make it to stop or control the market.

There is always manipulation in the financial market and this is inevitable when you decide to participate. I think big volatility this year has caused traders to lose money and whales have complete control over the value of the coin at any time. It's really hard to predict the future but if there are new investment funds in 2020, whales will reduce their dominance and the market will get better.

Of course this is just a prediction and depends a lot on the investment needs. Now you should just sit still and wait for another opportunity next year.

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Quote from: tenakha on November 11, 2019, 05:18:00 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

Bitcoin price manipulation are becoming too obvious now.

On the contrary, as time goes by, this is going to decrease further. Increasing value and more alertness of the community can counter this slightly. Actually this is normal in the decentralized system. But if decentralization is not important to you, regulation is necessary to counter it. Through the regulation it will be possible to follow the deposits and withdrawals. And tale ends happily. lol

Price manipulation is still going to happen in the future even if Bitcoin decreases due to the halving effect. The price may grow unexpectedly in the future but price manipulator are always present in an open market just like this cryptocurrency. Luckily Bitcoin is decentralized and no regulations or whatsoever that can make it to stop or control the market.

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Quote from: Aying on November 11, 2019, 09:33:25 AM

Quote from: Genamant on November 11, 2019, 08:34:31 AM

I think yes, manipulation in crypto market is rampant and already overwhelming
I am guessing that many has fuck up their day trades Cry

Whether it is yes or not, market is still unpredictable. if there is manipulations why still experts traders lost huge? there is still predictions of price? if there is manipulation on market and btc's price they could not waste their time for predictions and add some strategies in trading. there is no unusual thing that happening. btc's price is still volatile.

Whales thinks differently and there’s no 100% manipulation because every whales have their own goal and strategies. Some are losing money because they are late to execute but it doesn’t mean they failed to follow the manipulator. Its still unpredictable, and if its too obvious we should start making big money from a pump and dump with bitcoin which is not that easy to follow.

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

dumping some coins. When the price drop between $600 to $1000, they quickly start buying again to turn things around and then they just wait for

the price to recover slowly to sell at a $600 to $1000 (per coin) profit. Rinse and repeat and you smile all the way to the Bank. Roll Eyes

They make

sure not to make the price too volatile, because that would scare merchants and it will hamper merchant adoption. So, how low are we going this

time around? We saw $3000 in January and we made some good profits at $12 000... The 2017 buyers made some massive losses on the coins that

they bought at the all-time-high (ATH) of $18 000, so I think it is time to reward some of them with a recovery to $20 000. Tongue

They cannot really become that predictable because if they do the average trader will be able to anticipate their movements and the ones that will lose money will be themselves and I'm sure that is not something that they want, however I do not really think that the whales are looking to make the price to recover to the point we surpass the previous all time high, while they are very powerful and they could do that they know they need the support of the whole market or they will risk being the ones left holding the bag.

It seems more likely that what they will try it from now on will be another decrease in the price so they can accumulate even more coins as all the people that began to buy bitcoin during the summer of this year begin to sell disappointed by the lack of results.

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Quote from: bitbunnny on November 09, 2019, 08:23:20 PM

I still need evidence to believe the theories of price manipulation. Only talks and presumptions but nothing too logical to explain that.
Also, that doesn't make much sense, how can we then still claim that Bitcoin is decentralized and independent and on the other hand explain every price pump or dump with manipulation?

You can see there's a lot of research made by professional institutions and even universities trying to prove that there's manipulation in bitcoin market by some big players, yet they got nothing but more and more wild speculation in the end , they just can say that bitcoin can pushed up or dropped down easily by a single person , by a big whales! They are suspecting that those big whales bought bitcoin over and over again through USDT since 2017 and the last time is when it was on $4,500 drive to $10,000.

They are all said it was made by big whales , big whales who? They can't answer it , the only evidence is that they are looking at some exchanges with large number transaction on USDT and they found a single huge usdt transaction... still it doesn't prove anything.

Vertex_ICO

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

dumping some coins. When the price drop between $600 to $1000, they quickly start buying again to turn things around and then they just wait for

the price to recover slowly to sell at a $600 to $1000 (per coin) profit. Rinse and repeat and you smile all the way to the Bank. Roll Eyes

They make

sure not to make the price too volatile, because that would scare merchants and it will hamper merchant adoption. So, how low are we going this

time around? We saw $3000 in January and we made some good profits at $12 000... The 2017 buyers made some massive losses on the coins that

they bought at the all-time-high (ATH) of $18 000, so I think it is time to reward some of them with a recovery to $20 000. Tongue

I definitely get where you're coming from - that's why it would be fantastic for whales to use marketplaces like Vertex so that their trades don't impact the rest of the markets. I mean, it works for anyone making large trades too. Let's hope we hit $20k in the next bull run! Many analysts expect Bitcoin to soar after the next halvening event in May 2020.

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Quote from: davinchi on November 12, 2019, 01:01:54 PM

I am sure that if you have the money they are using to do so, you would follow their lead too, but since we cannot have the kind of money they are using to manipulate the market, what we can just do from our own end is just to learn how they operate, and since you understand this, I think that you should be in money by now, because I cannot count the number of times that this has repeated itself this year and even if I could not catch all the fluctuation, but I can say that I have at least been able to benefit from 6 of it, which I have indeed smiled to the bank, especially the jackpot of that time that bitcoin rose from $5000 to $14000 within a very short space of time.

Now that the price is dropping again, what I am doing is to be accumulating it and then sell when the price is growing again.

Actually the hardest part to be done or to be followed by many where we wont easily know on when how to ride up.So profitability will always
vary on how eager you are to take a risk to put an entry on said price point.Bottom cant really be known specially to this unpredictable market.
The ones who had been making profits are the one who put the risk on accumulating while the price is still cheap.Market is always been like this
and if you do know on how to ride with the flow then for sure making money isnt really that hard.

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Well, the price drops are more of a snowball effect of people that panic sell as soon as the price starts to go down. It's more of a human personality thing than it is manipulation. Some people just can't stand seeing Bitcoin go down even $100 and then they start to sell. Then the next guy sees it go down another $50 and he sells. I'm not saying there's no manipulation, but most of the time it's just people panic selling to try and cut their losses. Even though the price is going to come back up.

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Quote from: DaveWave on November 11, 2019, 09:42:09 AM

Is bitcoin price manipulation really that obvious nowadays? Because if it is that easy then many will earn big. It is hard to agree with this. It is always easier to talk than do the thing. Start showing us your trades is a good start for us to believe your analysis.

There is nothing like that and no one can really predict the exact peaks and time of upcoming season. Most of the times people just throw opinions naming them predictions. There are few resources that can be trusted in this regard. The factors on which the price of bitcoin depend are known by everyone but changes made in them are unknown. Bitcoin trading brings unexpected experiences.

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I am sure that if you have the money they are using to do so, you would follow their lead too, but since we cannot have the kind of money they are using to manipulate the market, what we can just do from our own end is just to learn how they operate, and since you understand this, I think that you should be in money by now, because I cannot count the number of times that this has repeated itself this year and even if I could not catch all the fluctuation, but I can say that I have at least been able to benefit from 6 of it, which I have indeed smiled to the bank, especially the jackpot of that time that bitcoin rose from $5000 to $14000 within a very short space of time.

Now that the price is dropping again, what I am doing is to be accumulating it and then sell when the price is growing again.

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This sort of manipulation should never be done by humans. People centrally controlling the price of Bitcoin is dangerous. There is no law guiding this behavior... meaning they could do whatever they what with the price.
Assuming the price control tool is in the hands of sane minds and one day crazy wealthy people or person from another location overthrow them and destroy the market, are you going to clap for them as the market is clearly been destroyed?

The atmosphere of uncertainty will discourage right thinking person from holding long-term.

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

Bitcoin price manipulation are becoming too obvious now.

On the contrary, as time goes by, this is going to decrease further. Increasing value and more alertness of the community can counter this slightly. Actually this is normal in the decentralized system. But if decentralization is not important to you, regulation is necessary to counter it. Through the regulation it will be possible to follow the deposits and withdrawals. And tale ends happily. lol

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

sure not to make the price too volatile, because that would scare merchants and it will hamper merchant adoption. So, how low are we going this

I'm sure that the whales don't care about merchant adoption since all there care about is Bitcoin having a price on which they can be traded it on. Merchant adoption for them is nothing as long as someone in the exchange or another buyer is willing to buy their Bitcoin or crypto on the price they are asking because in the end money is really what they want. If we will consider the price movement we are experiencing now it would still be considered as too volatile for merchants to accept but the good thing is merchants don't follow the price of Bitcoin itself but instead they BTC follows the USD value of the product which can justify why volatility isn't a relevant factor for merchant adoption since BTC quantity quickly adjust for the prices set by merchants and it's really up to them if they want to hodl and handle the risk or liquidate and avoid it.

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

~snip~

The movements made by whales, institutions or Strong Hands have already been planned for months. Sometimes the manipulation is in the news, if they need to sell, the good news comes out and if they need to buy, the bad news comes out, many news agencies are sometimes the same from Strong Hands, or maybe they are friends of the owners, nothing costs them Ask a small favor, in that aspect if I believe in manipulation, unless there is a "Fundamental"

What is generated in the market has always been presented, since the stock market since the 1800s, bullish traps, bearish traps have been managed and there are always those who fall. When it is determined in what way the market is going, it is won.

According to my analysis, following the Wyckoff methodology, we are beginning the bullish trend stage, which may fluctuate, the price may be volatile, but there is a clear picture, the whale management is to fill the market with emotions, so that traders enter and will fall into their traps, and thus earn money. When whale movements are obvious, more traders will win and I doubt that. Jesse Livermore (Famous Trader of the Stock Market) always determined in the market the line of least resistance, which is why the majority were always successful in their trades.

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It has always been too obvious, the trouble is there is bigger prices now and it requires a lot more money to manipulate so it became more obvious in the numbers. For example, back when it was 30 dollars and moved to 150 dollars couple million would have been enough to make it go up that much, the price was little and that much money going in or out would have changed a lot of stuff.

However, when bitcoin price became $10k it turned out there needs to be tens of millions of dollars required to change it even a bit, so when all of a sudden 25 million dollars worth bitcoin is sold you can see it more clearly, it was always clear but compared to 1.5 million sold to 25 million sold there is a big difference so people who didn't cared back in the day started to get annoyed now.

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Is bitcoin price manipulation really that obvious nowadays? Because if it is that easy then many will earn big. It is hard to agree with this. It is always easier to talk than do the thing. Start showing us your trades is a good start for us to believe your analysis.

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Quote from: Genamant on November 11, 2019, 08:34:31 AM

I think yes, manipulation in crypto market is rampant and already overwhelming
I am guessing that many has fuck up their day trades Cry

Whether it is yes or not, market is still unpredictable. if there is manipulations why still experts traders lost huge? there is still predictions of price? if there is manipulation on market and btc's price they could not waste their time for predictions and add some strategies in trading. there is no unusual thing that happening. btc's price is still volatile.

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Quote from: Genamant on November 11, 2019, 08:34:31 AM

I think yes, manipulation in crypto market is rampant and already overwhelming
I am guessing that many has fuck up their day trades Cry

I don't think that was right cause I'm not seeing it anymore. The usual pump and pumps happen all the time which I don't think that this is because of whales. We have to know also that they are not in control of the market, so many reasons that could actually change the market demand and do price changes as well. Whales will do what they think is right and profitable but I don't think it was manipulation...cause it was just common thing to do when you are in the position.

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I think yes, manipulation in crypto market is rampant and already overwhelming
I am guessing that many has fuck up their day trades Cry

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Quote from: Murat on November 11, 2019, 06:20:36 AM

Obviously, when your payment method is not certain then you can't feel comfortable to receive or give it, In this sense, every merchandise also feels so, If this price of Bitcoin is not stable then this is really difficult to run as a payment system. if we don't control this situation then the main goal of Bitcoin will not establish ever, so the manipulation should be underhand and a set of regulation is very essential for this situation, without getting stable no one platform could shine because of people only like a credible and acceptable platform for their own purpose, that's why Bitcoin price manipulation should be focused and take it under control.

If we believed that manipulation was having so serious connections with the current price fluctuations, then there's someone who held responsible for everything's happening with the ongoing market recession. I believed there's an anonymous investor who still kept his btc discreetly, and prefers to hold it for such a long time. He can play with the market whenever he wanted to, and decides at random instances which could easily crash the price crazily, so we encountered more frequent market volatility.

Pamadar

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Quote from: marcbitcoins on November 10, 2019, 08:38:58 PM

Manipulation is proven unpredictable too but If someone could trully predict the big whales movement then lucky for them because they could now ride with the big whales games with a perfect timing making them to become rich soon because they could now avoid future losses. Big whales trully manipulated the market movement and there is nothing we can do but to learn on how to predict their movement.

And probably that's the hardest part of chasing, if only that particular ride can be done easily then you are right a lots of traders should now be
rich since the dive will allow them to buy in while the market is still low and sell once the bounce happened and the value turned high, if manipulations
can be anticipated easily many traders get a lots of profits now. But it isn't that easy and whales is more wiser than anyone around this industry
it's tough to tell if they are playing or the condition of the market is natural.

Murat

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Obviously, when your payment method is not certain then you can't feel comfortable to receive or give it, In this sense, every merchandise also feels so, If this price of Bitcoin is not stable then this is really difficult to run as a payment system. if we don't control this situation then the main goal of Bitcoin will not establish ever, so the manipulation should be underhand and a set of regulation is very essential for this situation, without getting stable no one platform could shine because of people only like a credible and acceptable platform for their own purpose, that's why Bitcoin price manipulation should be focused and take it under control.

Cherylstar86

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Quote from: marcbitcoins on November 10, 2019, 08:38:58 PM

Manipulation is proven unpredictable too but If someone could trully predict the big whales movement then lucky for them because they could now ride with the big whales games with a perfect timing making them to become rich soon because they could now avoid future losses. Big whales trully manipulated the market movement and there is nothing we can do but to learn on how to predict their movement.

Big whales are already here in which those small one investors have nothing to do about that in which they need to learn more time during the movement of bitcoin. As we all know volatility price of bitcoin makes each of us have a chance to earn but to the fact needs a good timing to avoid a possible losses though to experience losses is just normal and it should not always. Also, the good thing here is when your luck is on your side always, well for sure you can have a good profit.

cryptothreads

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Quote from: marcbitcoins on November 10, 2019, 08:38:58 PM

Manipulation is proven unpredictable too but If someone could trully predict the big whales movement then lucky for them because they could now ride with the big whales games with a perfect timing making them to become rich soon because they could now avoid future losses. Big whales trully manipulated the market movement and there is nothing we can do but to learn on how to predict their movement.

I think whale manipulation has created a lot of new investment opportunities for everyone because this year the constant volatility has helped me to make a very good profit from this market. In my opinion any market will have manipulators so this is not a problem that worries me because they are just speculators and if you track their movements you will be very easy to succeed in this market.

I personally analyze this market myself and always follow the money of big investors to predict what they will do next. Maybe my predictions are not correct but there will certainly be a lot of changes if a large sum of money is deposit into a big exchange.

marcbitcoins

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Manipulation is proven unpredictable too but If someone could trully predict the big whales movement then lucky for them because they could now ride with the big whales games with a perfect timing making them to become rich soon because they could now avoid future losses. Big whales trully manipulated the market movement and there is nothing we can do but to learn on how to predict their movement.

btc_angela

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Quote from: Yamifoud on November 10, 2019, 05:44:05 PM

We might think that whales did this manipulation again but somehow we can't show or prove something for this. Though whales have the capability to manipulate the market but it doesn't mean that they will control everything. Whales are just like us, they also make trades for them to generate profits. They have their own strategy different from casual market players which I'd think that people called this manipulation but that is how they play, in fact, they are free to do so.

And the big difference is that they have deep pockets to begin with.

I would agree that it's pretty obvious today, maybe it has something to do with the bearish trend, and then the whole 'bot' thingy came into fruition in 2019. So I would say that it speculators and whales are good at using the bot today more than any year in bitcoin market. So for casual traders, it's really hard to cope with this sudden pump and dump and although it's obvious, we can't do anything about those manipulators or bad actors from behind except to ride with them.

Yamifoud

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We might think that whales did this manipulation again but somehow we can't show or prove something for this. Though whales have the capability to manipulate the market but it doesn't mean that they will control everything. Whales are just like us, they also make trades for them to generate profits. They have their own strategy different from casual market players which I'd think that people called this manipulation but that is how they play, in fact, they are free to do so.

gantez

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

This is one thing with an uncontrolled market. A market without regulation can face such. Creating of artificial environment or scarcity that will increase want is the course in my own knowledge. That is business idea though whether it is good or bad.

exstasie

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Quote from: 1Referee on November 09, 2019, 06:28:54 PM

Fact is that this market is just as unpredictable as it has always been.

I'd venture to say it's a lot more unpredictable than years ago. When I first started trading BTC in 2013, it wasn't so algo-driven. Classical TA worked like a dream. Now it's just like traditional commodity markets: every pivot gets challenged and S/R breaks often get faded and turn into whipsaws. I really miss the old days!

Quote from: 1Referee on November 09, 2019, 06:28:54 PM

If the price dumps and doesn't go back up, it's fair to say that there is no demand to push the price back up, because that would certainly happen if there was.

Agreed there. Many times I've seen whales dump only to have the market immediately wick up and trap them. It's all about the underlying demand and whether it can absorb the supply.

Quidat

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

~snip~

We might see some patterns now but we know that this wont really retain for too long.Good for those people who do
able to join the ride and there would be always a losing trader on this case for this less or minimal volatility we have seen
on this year alone.It isnt that kind of manipulation though but who knows because just like we have seen a few months ago
where prices do move 1k in a short time which we didnt even expect to happen yet weve been stagnant already for a while.

rodel caling

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 09, 2019, 08:40:38 AM

Everyone working for their benefits so they want to keep the things same as it is which restricting the adoption to go over next level,surely everyone is awaiting for the bitcoin halving which could make the price to next level at least to new all time high from 2017 in 2020 or later.

Ya that is right mate everyone working for benefits up and down price of bitcoin is very challenging how to get earn profits harder to predict if the price is keep uprise of keep going down, but yes ofcouse this current price movements is favor to the trader difficult but it's opportunity to get earn and always remember there have an risk. If possible have price manipulation the question is who is beheind of that price manipulation the group of richman etc. to convince people there have an manipulation in bitcoin price need an strong evidence because I still believe without evindence case dismiss, no need to discuss. Do not open the op.

LogitechMouse

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Probably yes and probably no.

Yes because of the recent movements of Bitcoin within the past years. The parabolic rises of it and the year of hell (2018). Since the market is considered small at this moment, rich people and various institutions can manipulate the market. Although they can manipulate the market, year after year more and more investors are getting into it and buying Bitcoin and because of that Bitcoin is being distributed to more investors right now.

Anyway, I don't care if they manipulate the market because I believe that the time will come that Bitcoin's price will not be manipulated anymore.

Alte_Volant

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Well, the profit is not only based on the manipulation and knowing when to buy or sell. I think it'd be better to measure the loss and outcome to start and take the results from that and see the pattern. It may look obvious of manipulation, but to think that there are whales out there just naturally selling and investing. The powerhouses are not the once to hold the large sum, it is the group who know when to pull in and pull out.

pooya87

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it is not that obvious otherwise it wouldn't have happened this many times with the nearly-same trends each time. apparently majority of day traders in the current bitcoin market are either too blind to see it or a more possible explanation would be that they like this current trend!
if you think about it, with these swings happening and them being somewhat predictable they could generate a good amount of profit for the day traders that are riding the waves up and down and that is exactly what a day trader dreams about.

Shasha80

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As we know the price of bitcoin is very volatile, which means sometimes prices like to suddenly go up and sometimes suddenly go down.
My opinion that price fluctuations are indeed caused by whales, because the logic must be that someone buys or sells in large amount to
move the price of bitcoin. So from that it is very clear that can do like that only whales with very large capital. With this whales manipulate
prices to create FOMO and panic sell for profit personally. So from that we should not sell loss bitcoin that we have, because whales will
make the market go down in order to accommodate people selling bitcoin losses. Keep holding bitcoin that you have until your target sell
reached.

Ridwan Fauzi

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This thing cannot be avoided since the price of bitcoin just depend on supply and demand which is mean if there is some one or some parties who have a lot of bitcoin on their wallet they can easily manipulate it.

I just have a bit worried when bitcoin has all mined, they are who have a lot of bitcoin will get richer whilst for those who doesn't have it will just meet a lose and miss our money just like that.

Kprawn

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Quote from: exstasie on November 09, 2019, 02:21:17 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

dumping some coins. When the price drop between $600 to $1000, they quickly start buying again to turn things around and then they just wait for

the price to recover slowly to sell at a $600 to $1000 (per coin) profit. Rinse and repeat and you smile all the way to the Bank. Roll Eyes

If it's so predictable, why don't you trade and profit from it? Wink

How do you know it's manipulation and not just people selling? Investors often cry about the former because they are long and losing money but I see no actual proof of manipulation, just massive assumptions.

Just as often, I see selloffs (like October 23rd) that are completely rejected by the market. People who sold below $7,700 weren't smiling all the way to the bank, were they?

Who says I am not doing this? Wink

I quickly saw the trend since the price dropped to $3000 in January and started buying coins again. (Took a lot

of balls to do that, but I invest in Bitcoin, knowing that it is a high risk investment option) So when it recovered to $12 000, I was ready to take

some nice profits. So, now I just wait for the drop and then I buy in again, knowing that it will follow this trend again. Even if I am wrong now, I

would still be in the green for many years to come. Grin

piebeyb

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

dumping some coins. When the price drop between $600 to $1000, they quickly start buying again to turn things around and then they just wait for

the price to recover slowly to sell at a $600 to $1000 (per coin) profit. Rinse and repeat and you smile all the way to the Bank. Roll Eyes

They make

sure not to make the price too volatile, because that would scare merchants and it will hamper merchant adoption. So, how low are we going this

time around? We saw $3000 in January and we made some good profits at $12 000... The 2017 buyers made some massive losses on the coins that

they bought at the all-time-high (ATH) of $18 000, so I think it is time to reward some of them with a recovery to $20 000. Tongue

only weak people throw it away and sell it cheap, so they will now push it back to 20k after selling it at a cheap price before at 3k, those big investors have the talent to play like that over the market and take advantage of the moment before going to the moon, but the thing this tends to make a lot of people disappointed in Bitcoin, but it won't matter because when bitcoin will take another new ATH they will come back to love Bitcoin again

LouVandetta

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If whales really did manipulating the market price, well, that must mean there were tons of them working together to bring the market down. Tbh, if that's true, whales intention to move the market as they like so as to be able to take the profit they wanted to. But we can't hide the fact that the market is very unpredictable, every market precisely. Regardless how amazing your researchs are. Anything could turn the table at any point. And it's no wonder if the price fell down, traders will follow behind them. They're following the trends, whether to cut loss to minimize the losses or panic sellers.

jazmuzika217

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I think we cannot used the word manipulated because all we know that no one can control and no one can predict about bitcoin price. If they earn on that way it is not your business because it is their strategies. Imagine is bitcoin's price can be manipulated bitcoin will not live for a decade but look until now user and investors are still give their full trust at bitcoin.

bitbunnny

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I still need evidence to believe the theories of price manipulation. Only talks and presumptions but nothing too logical to explain that.
Also, that doesn't make much sense, how can we then still claim that Bitcoin is decentralized and independent and on the other hand explain every price pump or dump with manipulation?

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Quote from: 1Referee on November 09, 2019, 06:28:54 PM

It no longer surprises me that after a drop people come out of their holes and claim that the market is being manipulated.

Fact is that this market is just as unpredictable as it has always been. This unpredictability makes manipulating the price for large parties extremely dangerous as there is always a larger party ready to undo whatever you tried to initiate, mainly so with how there are more institutions on board than ever before with incentives to protect.

If the price dumps and doesn't go back up, it's fair to say that there is no demand to push the price back up, because that would certainly happen if there was.

I don't think some big whales can do that kind of manipulation here. The crypto market is really unpredictable as ever. The up and down movement is to be expected at all times. But such manipulation theory, I think we have no solid basis to claim that.

carriebee

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It's truly obvious they manipulate the market because of the percentage of drop is big and then bounce it again in big percent. This whales will do this so some traders will panicking about this drop. But I think we don't need to always follow the flow in the market we need to have limits our decision too to save what asset we have. Much better to hold it and wait a halving time don't ever whales manipulate you they know how to play this market.

1Referee

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It no longer surprises me that after a drop people come out of their holes and claim that the market is being manipulated.

Fact is that this market is just as unpredictable as it has always been. This unpredictability makes manipulating the price for large parties extremely dangerous as there is always a larger party ready to undo whatever you tried to initiate, mainly so with how there are more institutions on board than ever before with incentives to protect.

If the price dumps and doesn't go back up, it's fair to say that there is no demand to push the price back up, because that would certainly happen if there was.

Ryker1

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Well, I can't imagine how people manipulated the market price, I did not see any moving big transaction or maybe I don't know, isn't it?
Bitcoin market price is really hard to manipulate bu if you believed that it is manipulated then, it is. The market price is unpredictable and the fluctuation was always there due to volatility and I think it is normal to have an upward and downtrend situation of Bitcoin price. So, if there is, let's hold together our Bitcoin and don't easily panic selling. You can help to hold and maintain the demand which makes Bitcoin move when the demand decreased or increased.

Willitivity

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

dumping some coins. When the price drop between $600 to $1000, they quickly start buying again to turn things around and then they just wait for

the price to recover slowly to sell at a $600 to $1000 (per coin) profit. Rinse and repeat and you smile all the way to the Bank. Roll Eyes

They make

sure not to make the price too volatile, because that would scare merchants and it will hamper merchant adoption. So, how low are we going this

time around? We saw $3000 in January and we made some good profits at $12 000... The 2017 buyers made some massive losses on the coins that

they bought at the all-time-high (ATH) of $18 000, so I think it is time to reward some of them with a recovery to $20 000. Tongue

Actually, that's how the market operates, you shouldn't be be surprised about that. Just be happy you have been to figure it out. Rather than trying to blame the whales, just play along with them and make your own money too, that's basically why almost everyone is here.

exstasie

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

dumping some coins. When the price drop between $600 to $1000, they quickly start buying again to turn things around and then they just wait for

the price to recover slowly to sell at a $600 to $1000 (per coin) profit. Rinse and repeat and you smile all the way to the Bank. Roll Eyes

If it's so predictable, why don't you trade and profit from it? Wink

How do you know it's manipulation and not just people selling? Investors often cry about the former because they are long and losing money but I see no actual proof of manipulation, just massive assumptions.

Just as often, I see selloffs (like October 23rd) that are completely rejected by the market. People who sold below $7,700 weren't smiling all the way to the bank, were they?

crairezx20

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Only traders who made a profit on short trading with Bitcoin but for holders who waiting for massive price increase they are still holding and wait for bull run.

I don't know if they can manipulate the price but I think it's normal to see the price drop if you have a bot you are always ready for this drop where you can set the stop loss and buy again with cheaper price just today.

The movement price of bitcoin these days is unpredictable it seems that we will not see the price increase more than $10k this year maybe we will see the 10k+ again next year but not right now.

MURONDI

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that's the law of trade, price manipulation is common, if you have large amounts of bitcoin, you will have the power to influence the price of bitcoin, You can play the price so the little people will follow you, but unfortunately we don't know anyone who has large amounts of bitcoin, and I also have no communication with him, so I don't know anyone who manipulates bitcoin.

Hamphser

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If it's too obvious then take advantage of it. I don't care if they call me a sheep as long as i gained some profit from it. It's a good time to follow and accumulate as much as possible so wherever they go you can make money from them. This is an open market and we can't still do anything whatever they want from the market. We are the small fishes who do follow these whales.

target

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If its too obvious I sure you can find a way to make it to your advantage with their manipiulation. These people will do what they need to do to profit form investors joining the cryptocurrency and since you can find signals about how they may try to manipulate it, I guess its also best you can try to also join them to earn. Orders in the exchange are visible in each pair but I can only see less that will bring the price down to -1000USD. if I have the skills to learn when they will try to dump, I would probably do it first and wait for them to also sell.

Wexnident

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Well, it's kind of forcing it to call price manipulation since people do follow it. More like we could call it that they dump/pump coins and let the other traders change the flow themselves by showing some kind of change where traders would be forced to make a move. I do hope for another ATH, but I doubt it could happen by this year. At most, it should probably only happen after 2020. I'd guess we can reach the current ATH by March or April of 2020, but a lot of things could still happen.

Besides, you've also said the price manipulation of whales, so it is rather difficult to predict how BTC could reach another ATH today. But it would surely reach another one in the future though. Also, price manipulation was always there, it's just rather obscure at times and well, they also might have additional techniques for them to use so that they could manipulate the charts and changes.

hugeblack

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I do not think it is easier to manipulate, Bitcoin & cryptos are known and every day the market capacity increases, making them more difficult to manipulate.
If we look at Bitcoin as a currency, there are big whales that can affect the price and a lot of small investors, these whales may succeed in influencing the price but they will not be able to maintain this manipulation for a long time, supply and demand control the market without regulatory intervention or the legislature for that violent changes.
However, we have not reached enough market capacity to stabilize prices.
For Altcoins, some of them can be manipulated as the market capacity is small compared to the capabilities and some are active only on one platform.

crisanto01

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It is too obvious actually since the last bull run, and for you to know those experts are always saying that not to fully trust crypto at all, as this was a pure manipulation, just go to the ride, make sure at least have some fund to do at least short term trading so you can have profit even it is too low. Not only Bitcoin is manipulated, also altcoins, they are all can be manipulated, the only altcoins I love so far is Ethereum as it is now getting stable compare to some altcoins, too much pump and too much dump.

rijaljun

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Quote from: NewRanger on November 09, 2019, 10:08:38 AM

everyone could make their own prediction ,although its not fully right.large trader or speculators trying to make price up and down as their want.many speculators want take profits as much as they can , by creating fud or negative sentiment they will achieved their goals.as traders we have to carefully with this kind of trick, and we will not trapped in bull movement.

The word "predictable" should refer to "correcty predict" and thoswle who are not able to predict it correctly, they just can't predict.

People often say bad about others, speculators, fudders and more. But in fact, people still listen to them and get trapped by their own decision.

ReiMomo

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Obviously whales did that. That's right, they can manipulate the market but they don't have a right to over control the Bitcoin price.
All we can do is avoid panic selling because the more we do that the more laugh we heard on whales and waiting to cut their profit at any time. Yeah right, the very promising event will almost there and let see if how whales again manipulate the market and I am sure they were getting tired after all. Just hold your Bitcoin strong, you can help to increase Bitcoin price if we keep the supply less. No matter what happens the supply and demand bitcoin price varies.

NewRanger

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Quote from: rijaljun on November 09, 2019, 09:33:55 AM

Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now.

This should be predictable from the start but now only some people are able to predict it, and those you called sheeps still not able to predict it.

everyone could make their own prediction ,although its not fully right.large trader or speculators trying to make price up and down as their want.many speculators want take profits as much as they can , by creating fud or negative sentiment they will achieved their goals.as traders we have to carefully with this kind of trick, and we will not trapped in bull movement.

rijaljun

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Quote from: Kprawn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:57 AM

The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now.

This should be predictable from the start but now only some people are able to predict it, and those you called sheeps still not able to predict it.

How long it will repeat? Chart provides more accurate answer for you that question.

Findingnemo

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Everyone working for their benefits so they want to keep the things same as it is which restricting the adoption to go over next level,surely everyone is awaiting for the bitcoin halving which could make the price to next level at least to new all time high from 2017 in 2020 or later.

Kprawn

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The people manipulating the price are becoming too predictable now. They trigger a massive drop in the price and people follow like sheep and start

dumping some coins. When the price drop between $600 to $1000, they quickly start buying again to turn things around and then they just wait for

the price to recover slowly to sell at a $600 to $1000 (per coin) profit. Rinse and repeat and you smile all the way to the Bank. Roll Eyes

They make

sure not to make the price too volatile, because that would scare merchants and it will hamper merchant adoption. So, how low are we going this

time around? We saw $3000 in January and we made some good profits at $12 000... The 2017 buyers made some massive losses on the coins that

they bought at the all-time-high (ATH) of $18 000, so I think it is time to reward some of them with a recovery to $20 000. Tongue

Topic: Bitcoin price manipulation are becoming too obvious now. (Read 667 times)