bitcoin private key storage | Bitcointalksearch.org

Cookdata

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 11:13:06 AM

Ofcourse I know how important the private key is. I wouldn't have shared all the words to the vendor and would have opted to do it from 3-4 different vendors.
That's the reason why I made this thread to ask how the engraving is done at first place. I was wondering how so many people got their keys on the plates.
How can I do it myself because I don't have an engraving machine. This is why I was confused and thought to ask you guys here.

Are you aware that every workman or artisan has an association to which they all belong? They may not be in every association, but there is one that they had to attend in order to discuss their personal progress. You said that you would construct your seed on metal in various locations, have you though the likelihood of these men by chance, reviewed your workpiece as a discussion and boom! that's a catct to lose your coins to four wonders of the world at a simple round table!

There are videos and blogs on the web that can guide you on the DIY, your seed is only safe in your hands. You can stylishly go to a workshop for some self, just don't tell them you real intention of learning from them.

ShowOff

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Quote from: AakZaki on March 04, 2022, 12:18:07 PM

as I said before, more like inheritance in the form of a private key wallet with bitcoin assets. the person chosen must be the person who is most trusted, because it will be their responsibility later and of course become the owner of inheritance rights. I agree with the necessity of educating heirs to know how to use private keys and understand bitcoin. some people even now lose their bitcoin assets when they die and can't be opened by anyone because no one knows but him. and the bitcoins in that wallet will be buried forever.

Having an heir is the most recommended endeavor by most people, it is very useful because bitcoins can only be transacted as long as someone has access to the wallet. Inheriting the private key to someone they can trust is an option that bitcoin investors may have considered so far, but some people might prefer not to say anything to anyone and try to hide it as security is being considered.

To be honest I haven't taught my family anything about what bitcoin is and what it does, but I have made a secure backup for my storage wallet which is easy to access when needed. Backup seeds on metal is a risky move, but having a solid backup with a few standard methods is enough to keep the wallet safe in the long term.

AakZaki

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on March 01, 2022, 09:24:02 AM

It's useless when you use a metal or paper and if you will misplaced it later on. Most of us only use simple tools to save our keys or phrase but we are good at hiding them. Creating a backup using the tools that you can find easily in your household is also much easier. You can create different copies and store them in different places like a pro.

It's a must to educate the people if ever you entrust your seeds to them if ever they don't have an idea with btc yet, so that they can take extra care with the seeds and they can also use it if ever there's something bad that will happen to us. That's better than losing your coins completely.

as I said before, more like inheritance in the form of a private key wallet with bitcoin assets. the person chosen must be the person who is most trusted, because it will be their responsibility later and of course become the owner of inheritance rights. I agree with the necessity of educating heirs to know how to use private keys and understand bitcoin. some people even now lose their bitcoin assets when they die and can't be opened by anyone because no one knows but him. and the bitcoins in that wallet will be buried forever.

NoorulHuda

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I think the backup phrase is more secure than the private key.
If phrase is written on a paper than it is more secure.

Lucius

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Quote from: Fatunad on March 01, 2022, 04:48:54 PM

Does Ink fade overtime? Yes it does but it would able to reach out our entire lifetime though but the risk on losing that paper is there since it is prone on getting wet, being burned or totally lost

It is not only important how to back up your seed, nor how to save it - it is very important that you have more than one copy and if it is possible that these copies are in different locations. In this way, you reduce the risk of losing everything you have in the event of an accident by losing one (only) copy.

Quote from: Fatunad on March 01, 2022, 04:48:54 PM

not like when you are engraving it into a metal plate or something like that on which it is really that resistant into most accidents or disasters.One problem you would only have is on how
you do keep those plates away on other peoples attention or awareness.

Imagination should be used and metal plates should be hidden where no one will look for them, and as an additional measure of protection, each seed should be protected with an extra word (passphrase) which of course should be hidden in a different place. In case someone finds a seed backup, the generated addresses will be completely different without a passphrase.

Fatunad

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Quote from: DU18 on March 01, 2022, 09:41:21 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

I have read that many people choose to store their bitcoin private keys on steel plates by engraving the seed phrase on the plates.
I thought of doing the same and so I searched for vendors around me and contacted one of them.
After discussing with the vendor I got to know that we can engrave the keys on steel as well as aluminium plates.
He also said that aluminium plates are cheaper than steel but on the other hand steel is stronger than aluminium.
And so I have the below two questions to ask you guys before I proceed with securing my keys.

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

If you carve it in metal and wood won't it just make it difficult for you to store it?
I think it's better for us to write it down on a piece of paper that we can keep in a safe place or we can always carry it in in wallet we pants pocket, rather than having to engrave it on metal or on aluminum anyway, I think paper is also a safe place as long as we can take care of it the confidentiality of the phrase.

Does Ink fade overtime? Yes it does but it would able to reach out our entire lifetime though but the risk on losing that paper is there since it is prone on getting wet, being burned or totally lost
not like when you are engraving it into a metal plate or something like that on which it is really that resistant into most accidents or disasters.One problem you would only have is on how
you do keep those plates away on other peoples attention or awareness.

DU18

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

I have read that many people choose to store their bitcoin private keys on steel plates by engraving the seed phrase on the plates.
I thought of doing the same and so I searched for vendors around me and contacted one of them.
After discussing with the vendor I got to know that we can engrave the keys on steel as well as aluminium plates.
He also said that aluminium plates are cheaper than steel but on the other hand steel is stronger than aluminium.
And so I have the below two questions to ask you guys before I proceed with securing my keys.

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

If you carve it in metal and wood won't it just make it difficult for you to store it?
I think it's better for us to write it down on a piece of paper that we can keep in a safe place or we can always carry it in in wallet we pants pocket, rather than having to engrave it on metal or on aluminum anyway, I think paper is also a safe place as long as we can take care of it the confidentiality of the phrase.

pawanjain

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Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I was able to buy some metal sheets made of stainless steel from the local market.
I then used a sharp nail and wrote the seed phrase on the steel plates. I hope that it is secure enough and doesn't get deformed.
For additional security I have put all the steel plates inside a metal case. I think this might be enough to store it for a long period.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: AakZaki on March 01, 2022, 06:58:11 AM

metal or paper reserves may be used. it all depends on how you save it so that it is not lost and can be accessed by you at any time. and certainly the backup is not damaged. having a few backups in a few places might help. or keep it somewhere safest and only you or someone you trust can know. Other people need to know and that is very important. because we don't know when we will die and who can find private key store and open bitcoin wallet. a kind of bitcoin asset inheritance.

It's useless when you use a metal or paper and if you will misplaced it later on. Most of us only use simple tools to save our keys or phrase but we are good at hiding them. Creating a backup using the tools that you can find easily in your household is also much easier. You can create different copies and store them in different places like a pro.

It's a must to educate the people if ever you entrust your seeds to them if ever they don't have an idea with btc yet, so that they can take extra care with the seeds and they can also use it if ever there's something bad that will happen to us. That's better than losing your coins completely.

AakZaki

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Quote from: nullama on February 28, 2022, 06:30:24 PM

Never send your seed to anyone, so you can't use engraving services.

At a bare minimum just write the seed on a piece of paper, and put it inside a ziploc bag.

Keep a couple of those, with a passphrase that is not written there. That way you can even keep a copy at a friends/family house and they won't be able to access your funds.

If you want to have some kind of metal backup, there are kits you can buy that allow you to DIY, and some come with all the common words pre-engraved, and you just move them around.

metal or paper reserves may be used. it all depends on how you save it so that it is not lost and can be accessed by you at any time. and certainly the backup is not damaged. having a few backups in a few places might help. or keep it somewhere safest and only you or someone you trust can know. Other people need to know and that is very important. because we don't know when we will die and who can find private key store and open bitcoin wallet. a kind of bitcoin asset inheritance.

Lucius

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 11:13:06 AM

How can I do it myself because I don't have an engraving machine. This is why I was confused and thought to ask you guys here.

You did a good thing because it’s always better to ask than to do something in the wrong way. Although there are some professional options, you can always go to a store that sells metal and similar things, buy a steel plate, and then order engraving accessories from the Internet from some of the popular sites like Amazon, eBay, and the like.

This is not only a cheaper option but also much safer since you will not risk someone misusing your data in case someone hacks the database of the company from which you bought such a product. It is always wise to break the link between something you buy and the fact that it can identify you as someone who owns cryptocurrencies.

nullama

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Never send your seed to anyone, so you can't use engraving services.

At a bare minimum just write the seed on a piece of paper, and put it inside a ziploc bag.

Keep a couple of those, with a passphrase that is not written there. That way you can even keep a copy at a friends/family house and they won't be able to access your funds.

If you want to have some kind of metal backup, there are kits you can buy that allow you to DIY, and some come with all the common words pre-engraved, and you just move them around.

sheenshane

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

An aluminum plate isn't worth it when it comes to disasters like burning into the fire, it's easy to deform the plate and this metal is weak, go for stainless steel plate it's good most recommended metal for engraving keys. But the problem is if you don't have a tool to engrave your keys will make it hard to engrave them, go first to any DIY stores for this tool.

Quote

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

No, don't disclose to anyone your key, it seems like you're giving in to them your keys. Put always into your mind this advice, "Not your keys, not your coins". It will surely steal your coins once they know the keys, don't trust anyone about your keys. That's what I mentioned above, find at the DIY store any tools that you can use to engrave in metal.

In Alibaba stores, they have stainless engraving tools.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on February 28, 2022, 04:00:06 PM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

...
2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

If you give the keys to the vendor you will risk your addresses, so, that's a terrible idea. And sending them to 4 similar vendors could be a solution, but I don't think is the best one.

I would recommend you to print the keys on a piece of paper and put that on a safety box. That way you don't get a third party involved.

Its just suicide if you do expose or let others know about your private keys even they do say that they wouldnt be accessing it.Those vendors do know on how important private key is
and it is kind of deceptive kind of act if they do made out some promises or they do need those keys for them to engrave.

It is true that it would be much more better on writing your keys on a piece of paper using up a ballpen on which at least you are the ones who do know those
PK which it shouldnt be shared up no matter what..

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

Never use aluminum metal for storing anything important including seed words.
This metal is much weaker and it can be deformed very easy, it has much lower melting point than stainless steel, copper, titanium and similar metal alloys.
Best price ratio is using stainless steel metal plates or washers for this purpose.

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

Never give your seed words or keys to anyone, and don't send them to any websites and cloud.
It's better to use regular pen and paper, or buy simple tools for writing on metal, this is not expensive at all.

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

Forget about it.
It's to complicated and risky.

seoincorporation

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

...
2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

If you give the keys to the vendor you will risk your addresses, so, that's a terrible idea. And sending them to 4 similar vendors could be a solution, but I don't think is the best one.

I would recommend you to print the keys on a piece of paper and put that on a safety box. That way you don't get a third party involved.

willoweb

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When I thought about the security of my keys, at first I wanted to spend money on a "cold" wallet, but then I realized that any storage medium can perform this function. The main thing is not to connect this storage medium anywhere until you decide to use everything that is there. If I'm wrong, please explain to me how an expensive wallet differs from a regular memory card?

Fatunad

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

1. Go for Steel, its more tough and resistant in all things.

2. Never ever expose off your Private keys. If he tends to ask for such information then better skip out and find another vendor.
You could engrave for your self https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHjqAVxtlPg

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

That's my worry upon reading it but there you go, the solution is by not giving all of it and just have them with different plate makers. I also like the idea of doing it on your own like forcing with that aluminum or steel with you writing on it just as franky has suggested.
I'm a paranoid person and thinking of every possible things if it's related to private keys or seeds. I don't want to give it to anyone even they're just the few words.

franky1

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you dont need a professional to do it. just get a plate of metal and a sharp object/tool from a DIY shop

the next concern is where to put the plate after its engraved.
some bury it. some put it out in the open.

just remember where you put it

Zilon

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

I have read that many people choose to store their bitcoin private keys on steel plates by engraving the seed phrase on the plates.
I thought of doing the same and so I searched for vendors around me and contacted one of them.
After discussing with the vendor I got to know that we can engrave the keys on steel as well as aluminium plates.
He also said that aluminium plates are cheaper than steel but on the other hand steel is stronger than aluminium.
And so I have the below two questions to ask you guys before I proceed with securing my keys.

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

Nearly everyone knows the value of private key in the society today. Entrusting any one to engrave your private key or seed phrase on any metal be it aluminum or steel could be even more riskier than having exchange hold your coins. It's best to use a seed phrase generated wallet carefully write down your seed phrase and save it your self in a safe or any private place. No one deserves the trust in this age and time

BITCOIN4X

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If you have family and people you can trust for your money and wealth, then I don't think you need to do anything complicated to secure your private key or the seed of your bitcoin address.

I think you can write every word and correct order for your seed on the back of the one few photos hanging on your bedroom wall either in secret or known to your family especially only your wife. It was much safer than entrusting someone else to paint or engrave it on a steel plate. I won't do complicated things to secure my private key or wallet seed if I have 10-100 bitcoin in the wallet because there are many easy ways to secure it. Bitcoin and wealth should not make me change my attitude and no longer trust those closest to me, even my own wife.

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Private keys are much more sensitive than seed because even you hired 4 people to engrave it there are possibilities that one of them knows about bitcoin and private keys and use a few parts of your private keys for brute-forcing.

Why not do it with yourself? Buy a metal sheet and buy a portable driller or micro engraver pen it's cheap and not so expensive compared to buying a machine.

It would be much safer than hiring someone to engrave seed and private keys.

pawanjain

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Quote from: Lucius on February 28, 2022, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

You have been on the forum since 2016 and you have not yet learned how important it is to keep such information private at all costs? Luckily you asked the question first, and you didn't send your seed to a stranger - which would very likely mean you lost everything you have. Look at the links posted by @mk4, because not all such products are effective in protection against high temperatures or chemicals, so be careful when choosing.

Ofcourse I know how important the private key is. I wouldn't have shared all the words to the vendor and would have opted to do it from 3-4 different vendors.
That's the reason why I made this thread to ask how the engraving is done at first place. I was wondering how so many people got their keys on the plates.
How can I do it myself because I don't have an engraving machine. This is why I was confused and thought to ask you guys here.

Lucius

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

You have been on the forum since 2016 and you have not yet learned how important it is to keep such information private at all costs? Luckily you asked the question first, and you didn't send your seed to a stranger - which would very likely mean you lost everything you have. Look at the links posted by @mk4, because not all such products are effective in protection against high temperatures or chemicals, so be careful when choosing.

mk4

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You etch/stamp the words yourself obviously.

As for what sheet to buy, Jameson Lopp did a stress test(by torching, acid washing, and crushing the crap out of them) on almost all the seed storage products being sold online.

Check it out:
- https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/
- https://blog.lopp.net/tag/cold-storage/

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

I have read that many people choose to store their bitcoin private keys on steel plates by engraving the seed phrase on the plates.
I thought of doing the same and so I searched for vendors around me and contacted one of them.
After discussing with the vendor I got to know that we can engrave the keys on steel as well as aluminium plates.
He also said that aluminium plates are cheaper than steel but on the other hand steel is stronger than aluminium.
And so I have the below two questions to ask you guys before I proceed with securing my keys.

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

I think steel will be stronger than aluminum.
It is too dangerous to give keys or seeds to others. The private key is like the key to the house you are in. If you give them the key and one day they can break into your house and take your precious essentials. Think carefully before doing it.

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

Seems like a good idea. But make sure these people are not closely related and their geographical distance is not too close.

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

I have read that many people choose to store their bitcoin private keys on steel plates by engraving the seed phrase on the plates.
I thought of doing the same and so I searched for vendors around me and contacted one of them.
After discussing with the vendor I got to know that we can engrave the keys on steel as well as aluminium plates.
He also said that aluminium plates are cheaper than steel but on the other hand steel is stronger than aluminium.
And so I have the below two questions to ask you guys before I proceed with securing my keys.

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?
2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?

Never give anyone your seed/pr. key! NEVER!

There are many different solutions where you can engrave/mark your seen phrase yourself.
Depending of the type of aluminum, the melting point of of the pure aluminium is around 660C, but there are different aluminum alloys with higher melting point. So ti really depends what type of alloy you want to buy.

Charles-Tim

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Why not backup seed phrase instead of private key. Why not create a seed phrase generated wallet? See phrase are easy to backup without no human error if compared to private key.

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

Go for steel, it is fire/heat resistant than aluminum

Quote from: pawanjain on February 28, 2022, 09:34:41 AM

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?

It is not wise at all, your seed phrase or private key should remain to yourself. You seed phrase or private key is your coin, hope you know that. If you let anyone know your seed phrase or private key, it means you give the person your coin to steal.

pawanjain

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I have read that many people choose to store their bitcoin private keys on steel plates by engraving the seed phrase on the plates.
I thought of doing the same and so I searched for vendors around me and contacted one of them.
After discussing with the vendor I got to know that we can engrave the keys on steel as well as aluminium plates.
He also said that aluminium plates are cheaper than steel but on the other hand steel is stronger than aluminium.
And so I have the below two questions to ask you guys before I proceed with securing my keys.

1. Should I go with aluminium or steel plates ?

2. Wouldn't it be a risk if I give my keys to the vendor to engrave it on the plates ? What if he steals my coins?
Also, If I don't give the words to the vendor how will he engrave it ?

One solution that I can think of is to find 3-4 similar vendors and give a few words to each of them to engrave on the plate

Topic: bitcoin private key storage (Read 312 times)