Topic: Bitcoin Talmud (or Order 2.625 Bible) (Read 451 times)

Once, an old Indian man came to a bank to borrow $500. The bank employee listened to him and started preparing the paperwork.
- May I ask what you need this amount for? - the bank employee asked the old man.
- I want to go to the neighboring town and sell the jewelry I made, the old man replied.
- Do you have anything to use as collateral? - the bank employee inquired.
- What is collateral? - the old man asked.
- Collateral is something of value that covers the amount of your loan. It stays with the bank, and you can retrieve it later. For example, a car. Do you have one? - explained the bank employee.
- Yes, I bought a van in the '50s, and it's still running, replied the old man.
- I'm afraid its current value won't cover the collateral. Do you have any livestock? - You probably have some animals since you live outside the town, suggested the bank employee.
- Well, yes, I have a donkey, said the old man.
- Is your donkey young or old? - asked the bank employee.
- I don't really know... My donkey doesn't have teeth for me to determine its age, replied the old man.
- After a long conversation, the Indian man finally managed to get a loan of $500. A month later, he returned to the bank and placed a large stack of banknotes on the counter.
- Oh, I see that this is much more than what you borrowed from us. I will take $500 for the loan and interest, said the same bank employee, But what will you do with the rest of the money?
- Oh, nothing special. I will hide it somewhere in my wigwam, the old man said.
-Why? In our best bank, you can easily open a deposit! suggested the bank employee.
-What is this deposit? - asked the old man.
- A deposit is when you give your money to the bank, and later, when you need it, you can take it back with accrued interest while your money stays with the bank, explained the bank employee.
- The old Indian man pondered for a moment and then asked, What does your bank have as collateral?


What is the moral of this story? Bitcoin doesn't require your trust, unlike banks and the fiat monetary system. At the same time, the Order 2.625 doesn't preach Bitcoin maximalism (meaning converting all your capital into Bitcoin); the strategy proposed can be classified as Bitcoin minimaximalism, where acquiring just 2.625 Bitcoins is enough - no more and no less. Moreover, the Order 2.625 is the first ATHeistic Order in the history of mankind BTC

and thats how stupid remains stupid because their always told they are right, so they never learn

we need to escape the 'participation award' society of praising people that lose in events. people need to learn life is not as golden as they keep seeing it. plus if you tell them they are right they then use that as ammo to tell others to agree and join their army of idiocy where it replicates like a swarm of locus

people need to stop wasting their lives trying to create their own re-affirming cults of idiocy and instead just do the simple thing of learning bitcoin, economics, logic and fact

Effective communication often involves understanding the perspectives of others, even if they don't share the same views. Instead of giving up entirely, it's worth trying to approach the conversation with empathy, respect, and a willingness to listen. Sometimes, even small breakthroughs can lead to better mutual understanding and bridge gaps between individuals.

It seems it's absurd talking here or any other thread created by OP. You won't be able to convince him with your logical explanation. If people start insulting others just because they disagree with them, there is no point in continuing any discussion with them. You will find yourself on many people's ignore lists and realize no one replies to you anymore. If you find joy when people ignore you, you are on the right path.

So better say yes, you are right and watch the show.

This rule applies to investments but doesn't work for money. If the US government printed USD and not sell it to anyone in the world, then the value of the USD would be 0. If Satoshi kept all 21 million bitcoins for himself, the value of bitcoin would be 0. So there is set of optimum strategies for payers (Nash equilibrium) - optimum between decentralization, velocity of circulation, free supply and amount of Bitcoin every player must buy and hold . Hold 21,000,000 Bitcoin is non-optimal strategy (BTC/USD==0). Hold 0 Bitcoin is non-optimal strategy (If BTC/USD==+inf, then you lost). So where is optimum? My theory shows 2.625 Bitcoin.

Imagine the first miners. If they did not sell all the bitcoins they mined, but simply hold, then bitcoin would never spread and the price of it would never rise to its current values. But if all of them were sure that the price would rise to $69,000, then none of them would sell. This is the paradox of this kind of games. You must choose optimal strategy. All non-optimal strategies lead to your loss or even game over.

Have you ever wondered how many people in the world hold 1+ million USD in cash or in bank? ~8 million individuals and here we reach Nash equilibrium for USD. I assume that we will reach such a Nash equilibrium, that is, the acceptance of Bitcoin as money, when there are from 6 to 8 million holders who holds 2.625+ Bitcoin each. This has nothing to do with predicting the price of bitcoin, which it will be impossible to predict. But what exactly is it possible to predict that with such an outcome of the game, Bitcoin will become asymptotically stable money.

So, you are just connecting numbers from here and there and making that assumption that 2.625 is a good optimal investment size for BTC! is that what you are saying. If that's the case what will you do with the money which you still have in savings along with the 2.625 BTC. Will you not spend those fiat money to buy more BTC. Because the more BTC you will have the more profit or loss you could make.

Large investment = large Returns.

Satoshi might have used github, but Bitcoin Core does for sure. Try, its free.

Aug 30, 2009
"This is a dummy account for those who have committed to bitcoin/bitcoin but do not have a github account. People included here: s_nakamoto, sirius-m, laszloh"
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/4405b78d6059e536c36974088a8ed4d9f0f29898

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-core-250-released-5454120


So who is an idiot and cultist? Me, who rely on knowledge and facts? Or you, franky1 and his dog?

Satoshi never used github so according to your logic he was an idiot also.

While Bitcoin and the Internet offer new paradigms for data verification and information sharing, trust, to some extent, is still involved in their usage and interactions with related services and platforms. For example franky1 must trust the Bitcoin source code, since franky1 has no idea what github and C++ are 

he tried to create a pump and dump group(and religious cult) where he wanting all his cult followers to buy a certain amount of coin..
this number is not important or relevant to bitcoin history. but like most scammers, if he can dupe an idiot into joining him AND he then knows they can afford the amount (2.625=~$75k-$80k) he has a nice victim to steal from, after all there is no point wasting months of effort scamming people for $10

he was talking about things like dont sell to other people but to put funds into a secondary (his) derivatives market.. already the red flags pop up when he got a little obsessed about talking of his ideals of (HIS) second market he wanted to control and create the price/value upon (the scam/syphoning element intro he was subtly plying)

of course he had no deep knowledge of much but like all scammers needed to present himself as a worthy portfolio custodian(leader/manager), so he would throw in some purposefully irrelevant formulae to pretend he had higher grade math capabilities. although the math he used never matched reality/comparison to bitcoin.. this is actually done on purpose by scammers.. they dont want smart victims. they want idiot believers. so by testing who trusted his math/story/notions vs debunked his math he gets to target who to victimise, those being the blind believers

You haven't realized he has already posted with his alt two times on this topic?  


Nice catch on the plagiarism and the alts, I'll have to merit Ratimov also for the hunt.
Since I don't like to go to another language sub with the autotranslation, any idea who this nutcase is?
For sure he is no newbie to the forum but I really can't make a connection to any of them, this whole religion drama sounds familiar but I can't just figure him out.

LE:
Fixed the name, sorry for that 


I'm pretty sure that if I use miles, feet, yards, furlongs, chi, li, verts, sazhen,  centimeters, on all the distances between, differences in height and footprint on all 118 pyramids in Egypt I will manage to find every number that appears in Bitcoin, but again, that won't mean Satoshi is the reincarnation or Narmer.

scammers will be scammers. cult leaders will be cult leaders
they will always hope to inspire people to join them and get syphoned from them.. but these nasty people always rely on idiots to follow them
bitcoin due to its math, cryptography and technology brings in a slightly smarter class of people compared to an average backyard hill billy.
the secret is to not trust people. but research and learn from data and code and math.
dont just see someone that writes a formulae on a social media platform. actually check its relevance. check and verify

bitcoin exists because its about data, checking and verifying. you dont need to trust or believe in people nor treat them like gods. the internet is a free resource you can search it without paying for consultation fees or other administrative fees just to get data verified

so scammers/cult leaders in crypto have to put alot more effort into their shenanigans. yet the OP fails this simple scam  test at every turn, he is a bottom feeder with not even the basic notions of economics or bitcoin history

Moar drama

I wonder, if all these scammers who promote illegal cryptocurrency exchanges (from Eastern Europe), illegal Bitcoin mixers, and illegal crypto casinos get banned, will anyone be left here at all?

You are very wrong if you think the OP will no longer respond in this thread and in other threads he has created. This user has a bunch of alts from which he has already started posting on the forum. You can check it out for yourself. Here is a list of his alts.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62622116

UPD

Here is the answer to your warning. Look at the post before your post and after my post.

Attention, guys, OP will never reply to you as OP is already banned from the forum. If you see the first reply on this topic, I doubt that OP was using AI to write this long post, and later he denied it. However, OP was doing copy-paste, which is called plagiarism, and it's forbidden in the forum. User light_warrior caught him doing it multiple times, and he reported it Report plagiarism (copy/paste) here. Mods: please give temp or permban as needed. The result is OP is permanently banned from this forum.

So, You can continue the discussion without having a response from the OP.

You, as usual, didn't understand anything. It was Satoshi who designed the game in such a way as to encourage pump and dump schemes. In Bitcoin, there is no other mechanism that would incentivize increasing the velocity of Bitcoin circulation and distribution. Economically, everything Satoshi proposed for Bitcoin is about encouraging pump and dump. On the contrary, the strategy I proposed makes pump and dump schemes unprofitable, allowing Bitcoin to become asymptotically stable money.

I appreciated your interesting writeup and analogy relating Bitcoin with theories and mathematics. But all these speculations are based on your assumptions because you can claim to know why Satoshi used 21milliin Bitcoin only if you have a document that backs your claim or you have met with the Bitcoin creator. The reason why he used the numbers is best known to him except someone comes up with verifiable proof of his intentions.

Anybody has the freedom to relate theories with any concert but it should be done factually. OP made the whole explanation complex and it will take people that are in the same class with him to understand. If he makes it simpler I might be able to understand.

Satoshi had limited knowledge of economics and game theory, but he excelled as a programmer and mathematician. He demonstrated a clear understanding of John Nash's "Ideal Money" (2004) concept, while there's no evidence that he ever read Silvio Gesell's "Free Money" (1929)

There are two ways to make bitcoin asymptotically stable:
1 Implementing a progressive tax on Bitcoin holding to increase the velocity of Bitcoin circulation and spreading ("Free Money")

2 engaging in permanent Bitcoin pump and dump schemes through market manipulations

Since Satoshi choose P&D show, 2.625 Bitcoin is an optimal strategy in this game.

satoshi did not even apply much game theory starting out.

even the first versions of bitcoin software were not game /strategy based, they were retailer EPOS system based.
heck initially he did not even think about things like GPU mining or ASIC mining or racking CPU's together. he initially was thinking of democratic 1cpu=1vote

it was only later with conversations with others that he started to think out of the box about a more capitalist socialist libertarian system of gaming the system and adjustments to compensate for it

he was more economist/technologist than game theorist

but this topic creator has gone full dumb-dumb trying to pretend he is a messenger from satoshi with some important number.. even though that number is meaningless.. all the topic creator wants to do is scam the community by forming a religious order, lead by him.. in short he wanted to make a pump and dump cult

usually pump and dump groups seek idiots who will believe anything, as they are easy to lead and scam them out of funds for the benefit of the leader. and thats the topic creators game. seeing who will believe his bullcrap so he knows who to recruit.. he is not original in anyway. others have tried to do silly pump and dump cultish scheme with different things that pretend to be important but are meaningless

Hate to say it, but franky's right about your math. You don't think of a figure and then look for a way to arrive at it (thinking myself now of how people seem obsessed with 21m and then look for a way to arrive at that, as if that was ever the predetermined destination).

Correlation is not causation, try as hard as I may, I find no need or even economic interest in a Bitcoin holy scripture.

2.625, if you suggest, can also hardly be the universal sum. A Papua New Guinean holder and a Swiss holder surely shouldn't hold the same "optimal" sum?


If he did use AI, it was only to help his layout, OP's at least his own author bringing something new to Bitcoin discussion (IMO). Posts like yours, on the other hand...

well yes you do sound like a toddler barking at a dog, ill agree on how you sound

Franky, I gave you an example that a 6-year-old and even your labrador could understand.

OP you fail yet again to try to amalgamate your silly number to relate to bitcoin.. your numbers have no association with bitcoin. your maths does not work nor compare to anything bitcoin related

it seems you are just trying to blast your silly number in as many posts as you can trying to get some recognition to YOUR NAME being linked to the number on a google search..

im guessing your end goal is once you have some recognition of inventing false information you then want to write a book and hope the recognition would entice readers to pay money to read your nonsense..

your number just do not have real context to bitcoin history. and no i do not even think you bought 2.625 btc. you just want to make yourself famous from spouting the meaningless number repetedly

What does bitcoin gats to do with game theory, religion, or the mathematical order of 2.625? Does the length of your story and your explanation matter or have any bearing on the price of bitcoin? Why should you put up with this lengthy story in the hopes that someone would read it?

The next time you want to discuss something, try to keep it concise and understandable rather than bringing up your mathematical rationale of 2.625 because that number doesn't exist in the cryptosphere.

Alright, I'll try to explain as concisely as possible. Imagine you are playing a games that can be played by 8 billion people. What games? Well, let's call this games "Internet" and "Bitcoin."

Let's first play a game called "Internet." You know that the main protocol of the Internet is IPv4. The maximum number of IPv4 addresses is 2^32 (~4.3 billion). So, there won't be enough addresses for every person on Earth. Let's assume you are in the early stages of the Internet and you believe in the technology. You have strategies: to take 0 addresses or take all 4.3 billion addresses for yourself. If you take all 4.3 billion addresses, the Internet won't spread, and you'll lose. If you take 0 addresses (you actually have 0), you'll have to rent and pay for addresses your (and your wife, and your children..) whole life, and you'll also lose. So, there's an optimal number of addresses you should reserve for yourself. That will be the optimal strategy.

My answer:
I own 1280 IPv4 addresses, which I got for free over 20 years ago. Each of them is valued at $50 today. As for 2023 there is ~1 million of IPv4 block owners over World.

I hope you understood the game's conditions and analogy between games. Now let's play a game called "Bitcoin." ...

My answer:
I own 2.625 Bitcoin

What is your answer? What is your optimal strategy?

I really tried to explain it as if for a 6-year-old or a labrador.

I don't really know what you're talking about here but from what i can depict, you have to know that bitcoin has protocols and which nothing can change those models of how the network works, everything has been completely done on the way it operates on the blockchain technology, what I don't seem to understand is the incoporation of game theories and the 2.625 Bible is what I don't really know how it got into bitcoin discussion here.


I also want to assume all these are not AI content because it's just full of exergeration without header or footer on a particular point to arrived at, i hardly got the idea on what i comment from his last paragraph after he has beaten around the bush with such a voluminous content, maybe he doesn't know this, that here on bitcointalk, it's not by how big the content appears but the quality in it no matter how small.

Of course, your answer is incorrect because you are not familiar with programming and the architecture of modern processors.

21 million Bitcoin and 100 million Satoshi per Bitcoin  was chosen in order to simplify calculations and involve floating-point arithmetic.

1. 64-bit IEEE754 double, all integers up to 9007199254740992 == 2^53 can be exactly represented. In the range 2^51 to 2^52, the only non-integer values.
Below 2^51 we also have .25 and .75, so comparing a number with it's rounded counterpart in order to determine if it may be integer or not starts making some sense.
If you want to test whether result may be integer, you must avoid numbers larger than 2^51 == 2251799813685248

Sure, he could choose  2200000000000000, but 22 is not triangular number.

2. So, for the purpose of optimizing calculations, he had to choose the triangular number closest to 22 from the sequence: 0, 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28,...

So it's 21. Basic math, kid.

Hehe, just kidding dear OP and Franky1 but I can not resist sharing this. Hehe.

Actually, I also didn't read your whole post which is too lengthy and needs some text editing because when you make your text good looking then it attracts readers otherwise not. But at the end, I thought I should read some replies for better understanding and I came to know that it is AI written by Learn Bitcoin (which is still a doubt for me too and for Learn Bitcoin). As I also read your previous posts and they seem to be humanoid.

I respect the Bible, and I respect your religion. So, please do not take my meme an attack toward your religion because I am also a religious person and I respect others. seriously I just shared it as fun for Franky1. I think he likes to do that. And in your calculations what is 8 million like if they are a number of people then what's the source of it.

32bit binary which starting point is of 5000000000units has a nice easy halving factor that results in a near precise amount with limited rounding when halved every 210k blocks

but explaining the 21 is more ontopic to satoshi

however your silly 2.625 is meaningless chosen number by you and you alone

Well, if I explain to you why Satoshi chose exactly 21 million Bitcoins and precisely 100 million Satoshis per Bitcoin and that these numbers were not chosen randomly but have a mathematical rationale, will it help change your worldview?
It's a basic math, and to be honest, I'm surprised that you still haven't grasped these elementary calculations and Satoshi's line of thought.

the OP is a known obsessive of religion and the number 2.625

he has been told in many topics now his maths is below highschool level and his understanding of economics is even worse

the number 2.625 has no linkage to anything bitcoin related.. its just a number he came up with as part of the religious order he wants to promote based on trying to get 8million idiots to fangirls into his cult

when pressed about his number, that there will not be 8 million people hoarding 2.625bitcoin today nor in 117 years he then decides to change his 8m disciple number but wants to hold tight onto his 2.625 magic number he decided on.. kind of obsessive..

the number 2.625 has no relevance to bitcoin at all

after so many topics made by him where he has not even garnered any loyal supporters, its time he realises his cult recruitment campaign died the moment he wrote it

It's basic game theory. 2+2=4. log2(1024)=10. 21000000/8000000 = 2.625. You don't need "AI" for that.

Op, did you use AI to write this? I didn't even read what you wrote. But the content doesn't seem original. Different Ai content detectors detect your content as AI writes. I DON'T WANT TO BLAME YOU since I haven't seen you using AI before to write content. Only you know better if you have used any kind of tools to write this or not. If you did, you would get caught eventually and then boom!

If you did not use AI, thank you very much, and I am sorry to bother you. But, if you did. Take this as friendly advice and never use AI to write content to post in BitcoinTalk.

While game theory can provide interesting insights into the Talmudic discussions, the primary intent of these ancient texts was not to present formal game-theoretic analyses. Instead, they primarily focused on legal, ethical, and spiritual matters, but contemporary scholars have found parallels and connections between Talmudic discussions and concepts in game theory.


Examples of the application of game theory in the Talmud:

Dispute Resolution: The Talmud contains numerous discussions and debates on legal matters and ethical dilemmas. These discussions often involve different opinions and viewpoints presented by scholars. Game theory can be applied to analyze these debates as strategic interactions between different players, each trying to maximize their desired outcome while considering the actions of others.

Decision-Making: The Talmudic discussions frequently involve scenarios where individuals need to make choices that can affect not only themselves but also others in the community. Game theory can provide insights into the decision-making process, considering factors like cooperation, competition, and possible consequences.

Negotiations and Contracts: In the Talmud, there are instances where individuals enter into agreements, negotiate deals, or resolve disputes over resources or property. Game theory can be used to model these situations as strategic games, where parties try to reach mutually beneficial outcomes while protecting their interests.

Trolley Problem-like Scenarios: The Talmud explores ethical dilemmas and thought experiments similar to the classic philosophical "Trolley Problem." These scenarios involve complex moral decisions, and game theory can offer a framework for understanding the trade-offs and reasoning behind different choices.

Rabbinic Debate and Consensus: The Talmud includes records of debates among rabbis and the formation of Halakhic (Jewish legal) decisions. Game theory can shed light on how these debates may have played out as interactions between decision-makers, leading to consensus or compromise.


From a game theory perspective, Satoshi Nakamoto also devised a version of the "Game". Several theorems from game theory are applicable to Bitcoin and its ecosystem. Here are some examples:

1. Mining and Blockchain

Nash Equilibrium: The Nash equilibrium is a central concept in game theory where no player can improve their position by unilaterally changing their strategy. In the context of Bitcoin, this could apply to the equilibrium reached between miners when they decide on their mining strategies to maximize their profits.

Prisoner's Dilemma: The Prisoner's Dilemma is a classic game theory scenario that involves two players making decisions that may not lead to the best overall outcome. In Bitcoin, a similar dilemma arises when miners must decide whether to cooperate in mining pools or act independently for potentially higher rewards.

Tragedy of the Commons: This concept is relevant to Bitcoin's block size debate. The Tragedy of the Commons occurs when individuals, acting in their self-interest, deplete shared resources to the detriment of the entire community. In the case of Bitcoin, larger block sizes might lead to more transaction throughput but can strain the network and decentralization.

Game of Chicken: The Game of Chicken refers to a situation where two players engage in a risky confrontation, and the player who swerves first loses. In the context of Bitcoin's development and potential forks, it can relate to the situation where multiple parties hold different opinions, leading to potential chain splits.

Stag Hunt: The Stag Hunt game represents a scenario where players must choose between cooperation for a high-value reward (hunting a stag) or acting alone for a smaller but more certain reward (hunting a hare). In Bitcoin, this can relate to the choice between scaling solutions that prioritize decentralization (Stag) versus faster transaction speeds (Hare).

2. Trading and Market

Zero-Sum Games: Bitcoin trading can be viewed as a zero-sum game, where the gains of one trader come at the expense of losses for other traders. The total value of Bitcoin remains constant, and traders aim to profit from fluctuations in its price.

Prisoner's Dilemma: The Prisoner's Dilemma can apply to situations in Bitcoin trading where two traders must make decisions about buying or selling without knowing the other's strategy. Both traders may try to maximize their profits, but this can lead to suboptimal outcomes for both if they do not cooperate.

Nash Equilibrium: The concept of Nash Equilibrium is relevant in the context of Bitcoin trading strategies. Traders aim to find equilibrium points where their chosen strategies are the best responses to the strategies of other traders, leading to stable market conditions.

Game of Chicken: The Game of Chicken is applicable to scenarios in Bitcoin trading where traders take risks in the hope that others will back down. For example, when one trader holds a large position and others may hesitate to enter the market, fearing potential price swings.

Stag Hunt: The Stag Hunt game can be related to Bitcoin trading decisions. Traders must choose between cooperating and collectively driving the price higher (hunting a stag) or acting individually to secure smaller, safer profits (hunting a hare).

Battle of the Sexes: This game theory scenario can apply to situations in the Bitcoin market, where different groups of traders have conflicting opinions on the future price direction. This can lead to uncertainty and volatile price movements.

Bertrand Competition: Bertrand competition can be seen in Bitcoin exchanges where multiple platforms compete by setting their exchange rates. This competition may lead to price wars and the drive for exchanges to offer the most attractive rates.

Market Manipulation: Game theory concepts can help analyze potential market manipulation scenarios in Bitcoin trading, where some traders may attempt to influence prices for their advantage.


Indeed, rules and strategies derived from game theory principles can be applied in various aspects of life, including the Bitcoin space. As people continue to explore and understand the Bitcoin, they can develop new strategies and best practices based on these principles. The idea of conceptualizing these rules in the form of a "Bitcoin Talmud" to provide guidance and education for newcomers is an interesting concept, although it is essential to recognize that such a document would be a creative and unofficial endeavor. My personal contribution to this set of strategies and rules could become a mathematical justification for the optimal position size in Bitcoin for long-term Bitcoin holders, which is 2.625 Bitcoins. However, if someone proposes a better mathematical rationale that refutes mine, I would gladly accept it.