This might be a stupid question, but I do not know the inner workings of mixing services, and this is why I am asking this. They mix your coins with other people's coins to hide the origin or the path
these coins have taken through the Blockchain. If someone figures out how to do this, they could effectively eliminate the efficiency of these services to allow for financial privacy. I know these
services could be subpoenaed for this information, so the history is still there, but how would someone trace these coins that went through these services?
Topic: bitcoin total supply - what if there is a flaw? (Read 634 times)
I thought that making Bitcoins out of nothing was just called mining!
I guess the best way to know that it isn't possible, is that no one has done it and moved these newly minted coins.
As soon as they were moved, someone would notice and spread the word. I expect the price would fall 50% at least if that happened.
I guess the best way to know that it isn't possible, is that no one has done it and moved these newly minted coins.
As soon as they were moved, someone would notice and spread the word. I expect the price would fall 50% at least if that happened.
It's been over 6 years and nobody has yet come out that kind of formula, the only one you can create bitcoin is through mining not from some sort of a magical code,if you can create bitcoin from other means it could imperil Bitcoin reputation..
I think there's a thread here about core possibly deleting people's coins. It seems we're most likely headed towards a centralized system.
So if there's a flaw, it's in the approaching centralization that threatens the fixed supply of 21 million.
~~
So if there's a flaw, it's in the approaching centralization that threatens the fixed supply of 21 million.
~~
I doubt the core developers would implement this. If they did, the code would just be forked and a network fork done, as i doubt any major pools nor users would use such a client version. And if word ever got out this was done, bitcoins price would tumble and so ends bitcoin as a trusted trustless system.
... Nobody has ever seen a non-generating transaction that broke that rule. The source code has been very carefully reviewed by many people to make sure that validation is handled properly...
This is false I believe, back in 2010 there was a flaw that allowed one transaction to generate billions of bitcoins, right?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
Scroll down to the part CVE-2010-5139.
Yes, you're right. Back when bitcoin was just over a year old, relatively few people were aware of it or looking at the code yet, and Bitcoin Core was the only implementation, it did happen once. Because of that instance, the code was looked at more closely. Since then the number of people involved in looking at the code is now MUCH larger and there are (as I mentioned) multiple implementations in multiple programming languages. I suppose that I should have specified that it hasn't been seen since that instance. For that matter, you'll find that the transaction you are pointing out isn't in the blockchain.
I think it would be wise for the community to really sum all the actual addresses balances on a regular basis and validate that they really match up to the supply provided by the formula, don't you think?
You are welcome to do so as often as you like. I personally find that to be a waste of my time, but that's the great thing about a decentralized open source system. If you want to do it, nobody is going to stop you.
Is there some place or core command that really counts all the balances from all addresses in the blockchain?
There are people that have written software to add up the UTXO at various times. Due to permanent destruction of bitcoins and unspendable outputs, the total has always turned out to be less than what the theoretical calculated total should be.Here's one example:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-many-bitcoins-have-been-provably-lost-at-least-675321
- snip -
As of block 305,303 . . . the UTXO (set of all unspent outputs) is only 12,882,439.79102854 BTC.
- snip -
As of block 305,303 . . . the UTXO (set of all unspent outputs) is only 12,882,439.79102854 BTC.
- snip -
it may happen again but it will be patched son, via hard fork like it happened in the past
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
and
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
and
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
Yes exactly, I'm really looking forward to be able to see a real sum of all addresses balances, this may reveal some unexpected surprises
If it doesn't, it's a very good sign, I just would like to be 100% sure somehow.
... Nobody has every seen a non-generating transaction that broke that rule. The source code has been very carefully reviewed by many people to make sure that validation is handled properly...
This is false I believe, back in 2010 there was a flaw that allowed one transaction to generate billions of bitcoins, right?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
Scroll down to the part CVE-2010-5139.
It is actually because of this flaw in the past that I'm asking this question, what if there is some kind of similar flaw that allows smaller amounts to be created? And these transactions are flying under the radar?
I think it would be wise for the community to really sum all the actual addresses balances on a regular basis and validate that they really match up to the supply provided by the formula, don't you think?
Is there some place or core command that really counts all the balances from all addresses in the blockchain?
There are people that have written software to add up the UTXO at various times. Due to permanent destruction of bitcoins and unspendable outputs, the total has always turned out to be less than what the theoretical calculated total should be.
Do you know where I can find that software or website or the official results of that check?
it may happen again but it will be patched quickly, via hard fork like it happened in the past
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
and
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
and
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
What if there is some kind of flaw in bitcoin and some people out there are generating bitcoins out of nothing, how would we know?
Since bitcoins don't actually exist, this isn't something we need to be concerned about. At the technical level, all that exists are inputs and outputs. A transaction is created by listing previously unspent outputs as inputs, and then creating new outputs. There is a requirement for transaction validity that (with the exception of the bitcoin generating transaction) the sum of the values of the outputs must be less than or equal to the sum of the values inputs. So, the question you are probably asking is: "What if there is some kind of flaw in bitcoin and some people out there found a way to create transaction outputs such that the sum of the values of the outputs exceeds the sum of the values of the inputs. Nobody has every seen a non-generating transaction that broke that rule. The source code has been very carefully reviewed by many people to make sure that validation is handled properly.
There are multiple implementations of the rules in multiple programming languages. To find such a flaw, you would need to find a flaw that nobody else had noticed, and which would work in every implementation in every programming language on every operating system. For such a simple rule: "Add up the values of the inputs. Add up the values of the outputs. Make sure that the first sum is greater than or equal to the second sum", it isn't very likely that a flaw could be hiding that would effect every possible implementation.
Is there some place or core command that really counts all the balances from all addresses in the blockchain?
There are people that have written software to add up the UTXO at various times. Due to permanent destruction of bitcoins and unspendable outputs, the total has always turned out to be less than what the theoretical calculated total should be.
Is there any way to find out the total supply of bitcoins with some command in the bitcoin core that really checks the whole blockchain by checking all balances of all addresses?
I ask this because the only way I see out there to get the current supply is via a formula, for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zglql/how_to_show_money_supply_in_latest_bitcoin_core/
What if there is some kind of flaw in bitcoin and some people out there are generating bitcoins out of nothing, how would we know?
Is there some place or core command that really counts all the balances from all addresses in the blockchain?
I ask this because the only way I see out there to get the current supply is via a formula, for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zglql/how_to_show_money_supply_in_latest_bitcoin_core/
What if there is some kind of flaw in bitcoin and some people out there are generating bitcoins out of nothing, how would we know?
Is there some place or core command that really counts all the balances from all addresses in the blockchain?
You just can't do that...
A block that "magically" contained extra outputs (other than the mining reward) would be rejected by the network.
Every transaction needs an existing input to create a new output, and since every node has the blockchain and all unspent outputs in memory/on disk, this can easily be verified.
I thought that making Bitcoins out of nothing was just called mining!
I guess the best way to know that it isn't possible, is that no one has done it and moved these newly minted coins.
As soon as they were moved, someone would notice and spread the word. I expect the price would fall 50% at least if that happened.
I guess the best way to know that it isn't possible, is that no one has done it and moved these newly minted coins.
As soon as they were moved, someone would notice and spread the word. I expect the price would fall 50% at least if that happened.
Is there any way to find out the total supply of bitcoins with some command in the bitcoin core that really checks the whole blockchain by checking all balances of all addresses?
I ask this because the only way I see out there to get the current supply is via a formula, for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zglql/how_to_show_money_supply_in_latest_bitcoin_core/
What if there is some kind of flaw in bitcoin and some people out there are generating bitcoins out of nothing, how would we know?
Is there some place or core command that really counts all the balances from all addresses in the blockchain?
I ask this because the only way I see out there to get the current supply is via a formula, for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zglql/how_to_show_money_supply_in_latest_bitcoin_core/
What if there is some kind of flaw in bitcoin and some people out there are generating bitcoins out of nothing, how would we know?
Is there some place or core command that really counts all the balances from all addresses in the blockchain?
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