Topic: Bitcoin vs Fiat - the Difference That no One Talks About (Read 350 times)

No, what I am trying to say is that the Bitcoin network has no protective mechanism to ensure that holders of its units get back goods and services, while the fiat system has it. That's literally all I am trying to say.


The Bitcoin network stores the system units and enables the change of their holders. If that's a services then it's the most useless service in human history as the units cannot help its holders in anything. The units are just something that the network protects for its own sake.

Basically, the network is a perfect example of means that gives access to a pyramid scheme given that no one can benefit from the network and its units, but only from things that old network members received from new members.

I do not think the reply focuses on Bitcoin and you, it is on Bitcoin and your presented argument.  And when you say goods and services, isn't the boundless transaction offered by Bitcoin technology a service/oods?  This simply shows how shallow your understanding of Bitcoin is, if not I can say how you intentionally ignore important features of Bitcoin to suffice your argument.



Again the use of pyramid and Ponzi schemes is thrown on Bitcoins, if that is the case then everything in the open market is a Ponzi or pyramid scheme since what the Bitcoin market is following is the universal law of supply and demand which is also applied to all items and services in the market.

I understand what you are trying to convey here, what you mean is that if no one in the world would want to buy Bitcoins and give out fiat, Bitcoin holders will have no use for their coins since they cannot use them to buy resources that are important for someone to live or use in their lives. That is true, but you are totally ignoring one thing.

There are a lot of things that are valuable and people pay money to get them, take gold as an example. Based on your argument, if people all over the world suddenly stop buying gold, the asset will simply be useless no matter who holds how much of it, but why would that happen? The world needs gold so they will surely pay money to get it so that they can make jewelry with it or use it however they want. Similarly, Bitcoin has become valuable because of its features and scarcity, now people understand it's value and that is why they pay money to get it. We know that it is different than fiat, for now, but it obviously isn't useless.

That's storytelling needed to attract outsiders and dump them system units. Because Bitcoin lacks mechanism fot turning those units into goods and services. And now let's be serious: do you really think a piece of code and a database can make world better? Wake up people. The dream is over

The difference between these two systems causes a large difference in the value of each currency. However, the value of Bitcoin and fiat money is not only due to the protection structure of the system but also depends on various economic and social factors. As a result, assessing the value of Bitcoin and fiat money requires many factors to be considered, not just protection mechanisms and resource usability.

Your thoughts regarding the difference between Bitcoin and fiat money are correct. An important difference between Bitcoin and fiat money is that in the Bitcoin system, there is no protection mechanism to return resources, it is just a digital currency distributed on a distributed network. Meanwhile, under the fiat money system, the currencies are protected by the power of the government and financial institutions to ensure the stability of the currency and the functioning of the economy.

Don't get complicated, you only need to draw simple conclusions if you really understand correctly what and why Bitcoin is different from fiat. Don't pretend that you are going to lead Bitcoin opinion to be complicated and other people will get bored with what you have to say. On forums, people are familiar with this and there is nothing new in what you convey. To be honest, they have been around a long time and know Bitcoin has a single decentralized system, no one can catch up with its creator, and no large-scale printing results in inflation.

This image will make it clear that Bitcoin was created for a better and more rewarding world for every individual who believed in it then, now, and in the future.

As simple as that.

Even if Bitcoin is a decentralized pyramid scheme, people still love, use, and earn from it. And the "little people" you mean can also benefit from bitcoin and altcoins because, as small players, they also know that making profits from crypto is not only from bitcoin but also from altcoins.

Fiat and Bitcoin have their advantages and disadvantages; we cannot compare them. From Bitcoin, most people can earn money. But from Fiat, only a few people can make big money while others keep trying to get more money in many ways.

And that is why more people will use Bitcoin and altcoins because they see the potential and opportunity to earn money they can get through crypto. Maybe I'm wrong on this, so forgive me.

Let me summarize what I was able to deduce from this particular response; your lack of understanding of BTC is what is pushing you to come to this conclusion. Now, while I won't blame you for this[ since you are entitled to your opinion], it's better to understand what Bitcoin is.
 - Bitcoin is a decentralized digital currency that is secured by mathematical algorithms and cryptography which can be used to buy goods and render services.
 - pyramid schemes are based entirely on network marketing and requires that participants recruit new members to earn money, which to my understanding is not how Bitcoin operates.
 Although just like fiat, crypto currencies can also be used for pyramid schemes or other illegal activities, it doesn't make crypto currencies or Bitcoin in particular, a pyramid scheme.

It seems that people here are focused on Bitcoin and me. Let me repeat. This is not topic about Bitcoin per se. At the end of the day Bitcoin is  just a database with some data in it. The topic here is about the lack of mechanism in the Bitcoin system to turn system units into resources(goods and services). The fiat system has such a mechanism. That mechanism is the only thing that gives value to the units.

I posted this here because a lot of small people is here and this info can help them to learn the truth and, consequently, to dump worthless units on whales. Namely, in all previous pyramid schemes small people were the one left holding the bag. This pyramid scheme is the first time in history that a lot of big money joined in. Now small people can dump pyramid units on them and left them holding the bag. Because, let's be honest, Bitcoin is a modern day decentralized and self-governing pyramid scheme as only outsiders to the system can make existing members to return their investments.

Those are the three pillars, that have turned Bitcoin into a store of value and a medium of exchange.
I see that you are another one of the BTC haters, who keep saying "Bitcoin sucks, because you can't buy bread and meat at the grocery store with BTC!". If you wanted to say that, just write it down. There's no point of writing big walls of text, in order to say something simple.
You are not very original, many BTC haters have had the same thesis in the past. And guess what. I don't care that I can't buy bread and meat at the grocery store by using BTC. We have fiat money, let's use them to buy bread and meat, before they lose their value and become even more worthless. BTC should be kept and hoarded, in order to preserve our wealth from long term inflation or from the governments, that want to confiscate it.

It seems to me the OP really don't understand why Bitcoin was created in the first place. I'm just seeing "banks", "banknotes" in his long post, but we have to remember that this is coded in the genesis block,


So there you go you got your answer there. And this is the classic textbook lessons in school that the OP is trying to infuse in his argument and that is why majority of us are in debt in banks and loans up above our head.

If others want to live on that kind of space, then be enslave to fiat system. But if you want to get out of it, then I would suggest to the OP to try Bitcoin because his arguments is flaw in the beginning. Getting something out of a resources? That is traditional fiat system for you.

And perhaps this argument is not for Bitcoin, it could be in other altcoins as well.

You presented yor arguments in ways that has no truth in it.
Like you not seeing value in the transfer of wealth through several forms. Wealth are not all stored in a single form. You bought a house, a car, a pet dog and what ever property you own by using some notes with numbers on them and backed by the government. That's the value in it, it's by some authority and has a backing. You as well own an account number and see digits on it to value as an exchange power.

Bitcoin makes no difference.  That it's electronic doesn't dispose it of its validity or value. Bitcoin is of the people and that's the most backing it needs.
Good enough OP your in the right place go learn. Open yourself up to new ideas and correct the ill ideas you might have of the system. That's what I say to you.

@OP just trash the most important feature why Bitcoin has value in order to make his argument about Fiat System being the better system between the two.  It is @OP's opinion and each person has their own.  Anyone of us can say exactly the opposite things about fiat system and may present that Bitcoin is the future.

Regardless, I still think that @OP understand how Bitcoin works and why it has its value but sadly he is trying to twist facts just to make his stands looks convincing.  Lucky that we know Bitcoin and Fiat, the difference between them and how long of a discussion it has been from different created topics that compares the two.  @OP, we are well aware enough about the advantages and disadvantage of Bitcoin and how Bitcoin disrupts the financial sector.  And those you stated worthless are the main reason why the financial sector is having an innovation right now.

Bang on, you've painted an austere picture of the Bitcoin world, so dark. Yet, let's not forget one pivotal characteristic of Bitcoin—it's like a self-depleting treasure, capped and limited.

Fiat money? It's like a leaky bucket, losing value over time. Imagine trading your hard-earned bucks for goods or services, and each time you can afford less. Not so good, right? But Bitcoin, with its staunch limit of 21 million coins, plays a different game. Demand surges, supply stands firm—value, possibly, escalates. It's like preserving the gold you've sunk into it.

Don't get me wrong, Bitcoin isn't the perfect treasure. It has its storms and perils, like any other asset dictated by the market. But it's got this unique blueprint that could theoretically give you a payback over time. Sounds fantastic, right?

You wrote a long thread with a misleading information and an inappropriate knowledge of what you wrote.
Bitcoin volatile nature is superior over most assets, talk more of fiat currency that isn't an assets but a currency. The banks needs to work hard in order for them to convince or manipulate their customers to take loans from them so that they can extort you through their interest rate.

Bitcoin is not like that,you don't need to work hard by luring someone into a trap to his financial bondage,instead bitcoin helps you out of that financial bondage which the government and banks has make is think is a norm. If you purchase bitcoin,all you need to do is to learn how to secure your wallet safe and understand the market analysis,if possible just keep on accumulating more just like you do put some part of your income into savings with your bank,and your portfolio will increase as long as you hold for long. Easy  life, unlike fiat that if you $5k that can buy you a car today in the bank for 10yrs after the 10yrs is over your $6000 with interest of $1k might only buy you a motor cycle.

or better yet, the OP can make a table showing the different features of BTC vs fiat, so you can already see their main differences at a glance. because too much words, most of the time forum users won't read. and besides, such topic has been discussed many times over already.
and besides, whatever their differences are, let's admit that we still need fiat in most of our financial transactions. so whatever advantage BTC has, we can't totally ignore yet the existence of fiat in most of our daily transactions.

I don't know of it happens to only me...

When I see such long posts as this coming from a newbie with 2 activity and no merits, I'm always skeptical to read through. I could read from the beginning to the ending just to realise it was just a waste of time. Most time, I'll first see the responses the thread is getting to determine whether or not to read the whole thread.
Let me invite lovesmayfamilis to see if this is coming from an AI or an outright plagiarism 

OP lack the knowledge of bitcoin and he is talking from his own perspective which is totally wrong.

Bitcoin has potential value and is inflation resistance. Fiat is depreciating because inflation has hit it so hard that fiat will soon get ruined. This is the reason that government keeps on printing money to enable them balance the high level of inflation but instead it has worsen the system more. Nobody wants bitcoin to take over from fiat but the fact is that bitcoin investment is far better than any fiat investment.

I disagree with you, where were you when some banks crashed earlier on because of pilled up loans and some economical challenges, and investors were not comfortable with their assets in banks and they diverted most of their assets to bitcoin. China has uplifted the ban from bitcoin and more people is adopting it. Bitcoin has potential values to its investors and it is more profitable than keeping your fiat in the bank for bankers to use them for their own business. Only the privacy that bitcoin gives and make its user ananymous is enough,the use of P2P payment method across boarders without a third party is a big benefit to bitcoin users.

Actually despite being different in operating algorithms, both fiat and crypto face similar problems. This happens because fiat has become digital: now billions of fiat transactions are performed in digital universe. It requires enough support systems, enough computing resources, and really strong security algorithms. The same is true about cryptocurrencies. Crypto devs continuously improve support services (wallets), computing facilities (mining), and security algorithms (blockchain and decentralisation).

You are on the wrong part and you lack the basic understanding of both Bitcoin and even the fiat systems you speak as if you don't have the forehand information to present an argument that can trigger more discussions.

Bitcoin has performed a fundamental role that is being an alternative to fiat and also a decentralized cryptocurrency that exist on the public ledger called a blockchain.

Yeah absolutely, it's like going to see my village priest to explain to him that the Bible, faith and God are useless, I don't know what use it would be from a rational point of view...


So how come I'm living, eating, smoking and paying bills thanks to mining? You've just discovered that we don't eat banknotes or microchips, so what?

Simple explanation would have save the stress of the forum members. Even the full article, I took only a point from the first paragraph and and all the remaining paragraphs re just for make up paragraphs. Yes as you said in the first paragraph, bitcoin is an alternative currency to the Fiat currency and every forum user who are really here to learn what is bitcoin and bitcoin lovers and investors know that fact. Bitcoin never come to over take and dominate the fiat currencies but to move alongside with it. Bitcoin still give respect to Fiat currency in alll countries.

This was the point where the entire text completely derailed. If you feel that these are pointless features, you shouldn't be interested in bicoin at all, or be on a forum to discuss about it.

Regardless of how fiat and bitcoin systems work for their users, I can only conclude that bitcoin is a new financial system that is better than fiat. I don't think it's too important to talk about something that other people rarely talk about because maybe they don't find it too interesting to get a lot of attention. But you, you've done an in-depth analysis that might be good for discussion with the bitcoin community, especially regarding bitcoin vs fiat.

I'm only interested in your conclusion, it seems you don't like bitcoin so you conclude that bitcoin does not provide benefits for its users. So far bitcoin has provided great benefits for its users both financially and in financial transactions. When I don't have to stand in line at the corner of one bank just to get their service, then that's the real advantage I've been getting from bitcoin.

@OP your comparison would be more effective and easier to see if you present it in tabulated form.  It is exhausting to see a wall of text and most members here will probably read the first and last sentence and may miss your point.

I am a bit confused about how @OP delivers his topic.  Fiat system then he talks about the banking system, Aren't the two entities different?  So if these two are different then it only means that the fiat system also relies upon outside resources the same thing as @OP stated how Bitcoin relies on outside resources.  The only difference between the two is that the fiat system is guaranteed by the government and can be printed infinitely while Bitcoin is not issued by the government is decentralized, and has a finite amount of coins.

We can agree to disagree about the value of Bitcoin but I won't argue with that, just look at the market and it tells us all.  


Regarding protection, the fiat system as I stated is guaranteed by the government.  It is guaranteed to be inflated whenever the government wanted to create more money.  Yeah right, Bitcoin is worthless, just look at the market and see how it fares.  Bitcoin protects the integrity of the transaction, it protects its users from fraud and exploiters like the government.  It enables the economic inclusion of the unbanked.  It protects its users from inflation, and it provides boundless transfers and do not need intermediaries.


Bizarre things happen... why still surprised when the fiat system itself has lots of it.  

The membership based system? You might have understood it in the wrong way because fiat system does not work like that. Banks are literally circling assets. I mean they are one of the financial systems which are working smartly. They use our own money to earn more money with the help of interests on loan they give to others. It’s a sophisticated system which is in place since hundreds of years. In a different ways, under different constitutions but fiat is giant authority run by government. You have not rights, and in the emergency situations we already know what has happened.

On the other hand we already know how bitcoin works. It’s one of the fungible token, if you hold the keys then you are the bank or member of your own wallet itself. That’s the biggest difference and I believe it’s working just fine.

Op actually exposed what is wrong with the fiat system which I typically call evil system partly due to it's opaque or non-transparent nature which is synonymous with darkness/night he or she erroneously tried to equate with transparent Bitcoin system.


In regards to debt based fiat system you say is the reason fiat put into circulation, Bitcoin doesn't need to function in that manner. It's model after gold which is mined with energy/electricity and put into circulation. The miners don't need to give up their house to own bitcoins. They use electricity to mine bitcoins which become theirs rather than borrowed. So they don't need to return any resource that's worth roughly the amount of electricity expended to mine the bitcoins. Just like gold people use energy to mine bitcoins which become theirs and can be used for the exchange of goods and services. Miners don't need to owe a bank somewhere or become debtors to own Bitcoins. Fiat debt based system is actually part of what is fundamentally wrong with it. Bitcoin system is not debt based. Whatever you decide to borrow is between you and your lender. It's not tied to the system like fiat

The Bitcoin system is quite advanced with inbuilt features to protect members . It already has the so called built in mechanism you are referring to. It's a basic smart-contract which can be used to enforce a contract or agreement between lender and debtor. You don't need banks for that. The smart-contract works inplace of banks.

You do not seem to understands Bitcoin really well. And your writeup generally doesn't really make much sense. I got some headache trying to understand it. Sorry for the harsh words but it's true.

I think technical implementation of payment systems does matter. If money is only something physical, it means you can't use it if you want to pay for something abroad or just order online (if we're talking about the times of Internet). If it's something that has significant weight, you'll think twice before deciding to go far with it for a specific product. If it's only available digitally, it means you can't use it if you don't have relevant knowledge and devices, and if your merchant doesn't have them.

To get Bitcoin, you don't have to give up electricity in most cases because most people just buy BTC rather than mine new coins to use. Also, the fiat system doesn't work as nicely as described. There's inflation, so with the passage of time you keep losing a part of what you got. Also, instead of selling goods and services, debtors can and often do just get new loans (more numbers) to cover the old ones, so it's not a completely safe mechanism. And I don't think most people see fiat through this debt and paying off debt thing.
Instead, one could reconstruct the narrative differently: money is just useful because you can't always directly exchange what you have for what you need. Because of that initial limitation of barter, people come up with something that they'll accept as payment and give as payment when they sell or buy goods. Money is a medium of exchange, and Bitcoin can be that, even though it doesn't work in the same way as fiat.

Well, that is what everyone talks about. My post is about what no one talks about - the lack of mechanism for returning resources in the Bitcoin system and the existence of it in the fiat system.

For this topic it is irrelevant what Bitcoin is. What is relevant is the difference between Bitcoin and fiat. Bitcoin lacks a protective mechanism to return resources. Members of the Bitcoin system cannot eat coins, drink them, live in them, drive them, use them as energy, etc. So once they are in, by holding coins, their coins mean nothing. They need people from outside of the system to get resources. To get something they can live off of. Calling coins resources won't make them eatable or drivable. Fiat system, on the other hand, has protective mechanism, as described in the OP. That's why units in that system are valuable while units in the Bitcoin system are not. It's pretty simple argument.

People no longer have desire much as before on the use of bank notes simce the new payment system was introduced with bitcoin, because they have always been into debt over years with this same financial system of operations, people no longer excha their other forms of physical resources or asset with fiat notes because they have hope in bitcoin for more better opportunities to realize more from it investment ober time.


While reading through your post and story analysis, i thought it could be something tangible as expected not until i come across this part, which gives me a second thought about what exactly you're trying to portray here, to counter a decentralized network or what? If being in debt and scarcity over the years is worth staying with for life then you can continue but don't discouraged how others have been getting back their financial and economy freedom back, bitcoin is far ahead in security than traditional system, the main reason why people want bitcoin is because of it decentralization which i think should be your major point of discussion.

You have totally ruined the purpose of Bitcoin my friend. Your arguments are pointless and doesn't make sense at all. Bitcoin is a resource and those who provide energy to mine it are rewarded with true fiat currencies. If you think that it isn't a resource then can you create a Bitcoin out of thin air? If no then you should learn about its fundamental mechanism of action before creating such long posts that doesn't provide valuable knowledge at all.

Satoshi introduced Bitcoin as a decentralized payment system and when he introduced it the value of Bitcoin was way less than today's values and the mining difficulty was so less that even with Pentium CPU's one could easily mine many Bitcoins a day. Now the things are different and the mining of this precious digital gem requires a lot of processing power, and trust me Bitcoin is a very useful digital commodity these days.

Bitcoin is an easy option to carry than other commodities. If we take the example of gold into consideration then it's quite heavy to hold many gold items in your hand, while holding thousands of Bitcoin is as simple as holding your smartphone. A smartphone with a Bitcoin wallet can hold thousands of bitcoins without any issues and the one who owns those bitcoins can get increased value because of the volatility of the market. Now even after knowing this you consider gold a resource and Bitcoin a non-resource then you're totally wrong.

Although, I agree that Bitcoin isn't a physical resource but in the digital world it's currently the costliest resource that anyone could own. And, unlike gold it's far harder for a laymen to own this thing. There have been many instances in history where people have found gold during the travels, but there hasn't been a instance where ordinary people found any Bitcoin by using internet or any other technology. In that sense the Bitcoin is far more rare than gold in the digital world. And, with each halving that happens in 4 years the value of this digital gold increases.

This post is very long for your first post, some members here will get tired reading this post. You can just simplify it like, Bitcoin and Fiat are two different types of payment system. Bitcoin is decentralized system that uses cryptography to secure transactions, while fiat is a centralized system that is backed by the government. Bitcoin is not reliable to store of value. It is more a speculative investment, and we people should only invest in it if they are willing to take on the risk of losing our money.

As Bitcoin became more widely known to the general public, many began to see it as some kind of alternative to the fiat payment system. Not only an alternative but a superior alternative. This superiority supposedly stems from Bitcoin’s “decentralization”, “security”, and “scarcity”. Here we will show that Bitcoin and fiat are different as night and day. And that the first don`t even belong to the same category as the second.

Narratives about Bitcoin are mostly focused on the field of informatics. However, payment systems belong to the field of economics. Here we will therefore focus on the second. Economically speaking, people need goods and services. They need food, clothing, energy, a roof over their heads, clean streets, medical services, etc. This is what satisfies human needs. In that sense, the technical implementation of payment systems, through which goods and services are exchanged, is irrelevant. Payment systems themselves can neither satisfy human needs nor magically create goods and services. They are only auxiliary means for exchanging them and, most importantly, securing their return.

Why is securing the return of goods and services the most important thing in payment systems? Well, suppose you gave up your house and in return, you got units of the fiat system, i.e. you got banknotes or a deposit account that show the number of received units. These units cannot satisfy your needs. They are not goods or services. So, you gave up a house that can satisfy a lot of needs, and in return, you got units that cannot satisfy any need. That is why, if a payment system is legit, it must have a protective mechanism so that in the future you can return goods or services. The fiat payment system has such a mechanism. Let’s see how it functions.

The units of fiat payment systems are created when banks grant loans to individuals and organizations or purchase government bonds. By exchanging goods and services for banknotes or deposits people become holders of those units. The fiat system ensures that holders get goods and services back. It does that through the liabilities of debtors and their collaterals, i.e., by forcing them to pay off their debt.

Namely, to be able to pay off their debt, debtors need banknotes or deposits. And the only way to get them is if they work for their holders, sell them goods and services, or, in the case of governments, accept banknotes or deposits as a tax payment. So, by being forced to pay off debt represented with units of the fiat system, debtors are returning goods and services to holders of those units. Such returns are realized daily by hundreds of thousands of debtors in the fiat payment systems worldwide.

Let’s now turn to Bitcoin. Bitcoin boils down to a network of computing devices linked together to manage a database according to some protocols. That database stores information on the number of units held by users registered on the network. The units are popularly called electronic coins or bitcoins(₿). How do people become holders in the first place? Well initially, they give up electricity in the process of the so-called Bitcoin mining. This gets them the units. So they give up a good that can satisfy a lot of needs and in return, they get units that cannot satisfy any need. That means that users of the Bitcoin network are in the same situation as users of the fiat system – they need to return goods or services.

And now comes the crucial question: does the Bitcoin network have a protective mechanism that enables users to return goods and services? Well, it does not.

And this is the key difference between the fiat payment system and the Bitcoin network. The first has banks, debtors, loan contracts, government bonds, and pledged collaterals to ensure that users return goods and services. The second has nothing. Users just hold the units, and that is it. The network is not there to protect them by ensuring the said return. Instead, the network is there to protect its units. It takes electricity for its own sake.

“Decentralization”, “security” and “scarcity” are just pointless features of the network as none of that protects users. No matter how decentralized, well-protected, or limited the units are, this cannot help anyone to return goods and services. Network maintainers, miners, protocols, the database, and everything else related to the network are entirely focused on the units. It is like these units represent some kind of transcendental value worthy of worship and high protection. The users, on the other hand, are unimportant. They exist only to sacrifice need-satisfying items or protective units of the fiat system to be able to hold that transcendental value.

There is currently an entire army of Bitcoin users. They gave up an enormous amount of valuable items to get units of the Bitcoin network. And this network has nothing to protect them. Consequently, if people outside the network decide they no longer want to give up valuable items in favor of network units, that whole army is doomed. The network cannot help them to return even a bit of what they gave for the units.

To conclude. The units of the fiat system are valuable because they protect holders by ensuring the return of goods and services. The value per specific number of units can be determined by checking the value of collaterals that banks take when issuing that number of units.

On the other hand, the units of the Bitcoin network are worthless because they do not protect holders. The fact that the Bitcoin network is designed to protect its units instead of its users is pretty bizarre. What is even more bizarre is that some people are currently giving up 30,000 protective units ($) to get one non-protective unit(₿). This indeed looks like sacrifice in favor of some transcendental value. And shows that the whole thing is some kind of digital religious practice instead of something related to economics.