[Bitcoin] woman found with £2bn worth of bitcoin

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Quote from: SmartGold01 on May 30, 2024, 10:30:08 PM

"Jian Wen, 42, was involved in converting Bitcoin into assets like luxury houses.

A former takeaway worker found with Bitcoin worth more than £2bn was jailed for six years and eight months for a crime linked to money laundering on Friday. Jian Wen, 42, from Hendon, in north London, was involved in converting the currency into assets including multi-million-pound houses and jewellery.

At Southwark Crown court in March, she was convicted of entering into or becoming concerned in a money laundering arrangement.The Metropolitan Police said at the time of the conviction the seizure was the largest of its kind in the UK."

When I came across this news on a bbc.com website I couldn't believed it but was moved to share over here to know her involvement as when she started making investment to have worth almost €2b worth in bitcoin, most times it's hard to believe story like this.

The floor is open for discussion (if this already discussed then remind me to Lock this topic).

I imagine there are also many folks who have laundered money through some crypto avenue & have done very well for themselves. It is a tricky life tho, you're basically going to always be watching your back thinking someone is chasing after you, no? I just woudn't ever want to have to live with that kind of anxiety you would get from doing that, but for some people it is a rush!

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Quote from: OcTradism on May 30, 2024, 10:39:26 PM

Quote from: SmartGold01 on May 30, 2024, 10:30:08 PM

"Jian Wen, 42, was involved in converting Bitcoin into assets like luxury houses.

This link has very little information and you can get more detail there.
Woman found with £2bn in Bitcoin convicted of money laundering arrangement offence

This gives some more information but still not clear enough. Information like she claims to get money from Bitcoin mining, then buy luxury things, jewellery from her illegal money.

Proof, proof is all there is to this case and I don’t know how they would go about proving that especially with the claims of possible mining but, maybe all that is in the wind now. The article seems to be a bit back dated as OP is talking about Wen yo have been jailed for 6years and eight months while the provided link talks about the scheduled date for sentencing to be 10th of May. Well, the thread is that old but, something about the narrative am pleased with; it talking about the exploitation of Bitcoin.
At least for once they do get it right that, Bitcoin is what is been exploited here in conducting these crimes and not Bitcoin being seen as a currency for fraudster and scammers.

Hope Justice is served by bringing other individuals involved in this crime and not just Wen. The narrative speculates on a wider network of persons involved.

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Quote from: Maus0728 on June 20, 2024, 06:05:42 PM

If you're reading the news of what's already happened, it's apparent and clear to everyone that this didn't come from any legal means but if this was at a surface level and no one has suspected a thing yet, I don't think that people like you or me would be able to tell that there's something illegal going on, we'd all probably think that good for her to be able to become a businesswoman in a field that's dominated by men. When there's no suspicion on the activities on your wallet or transaction then there's nothing really that would implicate you that you're doing something illegal.

Just the amount is suspicious enough, after all she was caught with 2 billion pounds, which is a massive amount of money that should leave a great deal of traces about where that money come from, so it was easy for the government to get suspicious about her activities and eventually arrest her once she had no means to prove her claims such profits came from mining bitcoin, the real question is who that money really belong to, as trusting that amount to a single person seems like a bad idea.

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Quote from: Ojima-ojo on June 20, 2024, 05:38:41 PM

Quote from: Maus0728 on June 15, 2024, 06:38:48 PM

Most likely, that money didn't come from a legal means, that's probably why she's trying to launder that money, there's no way that you'd be evading taxes when the money came from a good standing right? It's in the article too that she's defrauded a lot of Chinese investors and was involved in a money laundering scheme so what did you expect? You do crime then you're going to have to do the time right? It's not a shame, you made money through illegal means then that means that you're going to have to pay for it eventually, that's justice.

From the news details, you can tell that the source of the money is questionable and for that bitcoin was only mentioned because bitcoin was a tool in the hands of the criminals to carry out the multiple million money laundering, but the crime could possibly be committed using fiat, and that is the advantages of bitcoin and it blockchain, anyone can track the transactions as long as there is a wallet address to analyse but it requires advance tool to detect such connections.

If you're reading the news of what's already happened, it's apparent and clear to everyone that this didn't come from any legal means but if this was at a surface level and no one has suspected a thing yet, I don't think that people like you or me would be able to tell that there's something illegal going on, we'd all probably think that good for her to be able to become a businesswoman in a field that's dominated by men. When there's no suspicion on the activities on your wallet or transaction then there's nothing really that would implicate you that you're doing something illegal.

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Quote from: Ojima-ojo on June 20, 2024, 05:38:41 PM

Quote from: Maus0728 on June 15, 2024, 06:38:48 PM

Quote from: btc78 on May 30, 2024, 10:38:11 PM

What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes? I would be interested to hear how she got that €2bn worth of bitcoin. How did she start? Did she just hold for a really long time? And a lot of other questions. Anyway it’s a shame to have finally all that amount of money just to go to jail.

Most likely, that money didn't come from a legal means, that's probably why she's trying to launder that money, there's no way that you'd be evading taxes when the money came from a good standing right? It's in the article too that she's defrauded a lot of Chinese investors and was involved in a money laundering scheme so what did you expect? You do crime then you're going to have to do the time right? It's not a shame, you made money through illegal means then that means that you're going to have to pay for it eventually, that's justice.

From the news details, you can tell that the source of the money is questionable and for that bitcoin was only mentioned because bitcoin was a tool in the hands of the criminals to carry out the multiple million money laundering, but the crime could possibly be committed using fiat, and that is the advantages of bitcoin and it blockchain, anyone can track the transactions as long as there is a wallet address to analyse but it requires advance tool to detect such connections.

As we don't know what really happened or what had transpired before uncovering the billion worth of bitcoins, we are only left to speculate on this matter. The news article is also lacking of details, so we have no idea what was the real deal on this case. She may have other cohorts on this scheme and she was only the frontliner of this activity. And I don't think they have done this overnight. It was possibly years in the making for all we know.

I understand that this kind of news is somewhat one of the reasons why people have negative outlook towards bitcoin market, but we need to look deeper on this situation. It is just like fiat, it is full of fraudulent activities if people want to deploy their activities on this network, they will surely find a way.

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Quote from: Maus0728 on June 15, 2024, 06:38:48 PM

Quote from: btc78 on May 30, 2024, 10:38:11 PM

What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes? I would be interested to hear how she got that €2bn worth of bitcoin. How did she start? Did she just hold for a really long time? And a lot of other questions. Anyway it’s a shame to have finally all that amount of money just to go to jail.

Most likely, that money didn't come from a legal means, that's probably why she's trying to launder that money, there's no way that you'd be evading taxes when the money came from a good standing right? It's in the article too that she's defrauded a lot of Chinese investors and was involved in a money laundering scheme so what did you expect? You do crime then you're going to have to do the time right? It's not a shame, you made money through illegal means then that means that you're going to have to pay for it eventually, that's justice.

From the news details, you can tell that the source of the money is questionable and for that bitcoin was only mentioned because bitcoin was a tool in the hands of the criminals to carry out the multiple million money laundering, but the crime could possibly be committed using fiat, and that is the advantages of bitcoin and it blockchain, anyone can track the transactions as long as there is a wallet address to analyse but it requires advance tool to detect such connections.

Maus0728

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Quote from: btc78 on May 30, 2024, 10:38:11 PM

What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes? I would be interested to hear how she got that €2bn worth of bitcoin. How did she start? Did she just hold for a really long time? And a lot of other questions. Anyway it’s a shame to have finally all that amount of money just to go to jail.

Most likely, that money didn't come from a legal means, that's probably why she's trying to launder that money, there's no way that you'd be evading taxes when the money came from a good standing right? It's in the article too that she's defrauded a lot of Chinese investors and was involved in a money laundering scheme so what did you expect? You do crime then you're going to have to do the time right? It's not a shame, you made money through illegal means then that means that you're going to have to pay for it eventually, that's justice.

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The article doesn't mention details, but money laundering in such big volumes is a serious crime, so it's not surprising that she got jail time for it. Bitcoin is a type of money, and like any kind of money, it can be used for good, bad, and neutral purposes. When Bitcoin is used for criminal purposes, those crimes should be investigated, like any other crimes. But those crimes and convictions should not be used to justify Bitcoin restrictions or anything like that.

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Quote from: SmartGold01 on May 30, 2024, 10:30:08 PM

"Jian Wen, 42, was involved in converting Bitcoin into assets like luxury houses.

A former takeaway worker found with Bitcoin worth more than £2bn was jailed for six years and eight months for a crime linked to money laundering on Friday. Jian Wen, 42, from Hendon, in north London, was involved in converting the currency into assets including multi-million-pound houses and jewellery.

At Southwark Crown court in March, she was convicted of entering into or becoming concerned in a money laundering arrangement.The Metropolitan Police said at the time of the conviction the seizure was the largest of its kind in the UK."

When I came across this news on a bbc.com website I couldn't believed it but was moved to share over here to know her involvement as when she started making investment to have worth almost €2b worth in bitcoin, most times it's hard to believe story like this.

The floor is open for discussion (if this already discussed then remind me to Lock this topic).

I am a little stunned how anyone can think they can just wash £2 billion by directly buying houses without getting caught in London of all places. This is just another example how money can't buy brains. I wouldn't know how anyone would wash money these days, but even i know how you don't and this clearly isn't the way to do it.

I guess it was easier back in time to wash cryptos, but £2 billion is unheard of. I would be honestly surprised if there wouldn't be pile of dead bodies found with the investigations, because if my memory serves me right, that has been the case in couple big crypto scams. When you wash the money, you are going to be involved with some serious people in the underworld that might just get the money themselves, get rid of the persons that stole it in the first place and wash it.

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 06, 2024, 03:47:50 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on June 05, 2024, 02:40:39 PM

Fun fact: The bigger is your sandbox, the easier it is to hide another bag of sand.

I like your analogy. But, if you have a sandbox, would you really risk it all for one more bag of sand?
In this case, I assume the woman didn't have any sand and stole a desert Wink

In EU we usually get a fine when we don't pay taxes, so it's not really risking a whole sandbox for one additional bag. Just risking a part of that bag.
If the sandbox is big enough that bag becomes a grain of sand, which is why they're now trying to limit our ability to use cash. It used to be 10k EUR with no KYC and is gradually lowered every few years.
In her case, talking in sand terms, she probably didn't even have a sandbox and stole whole freight train full of sand. Then unloaded it all in her back yard hoping nobody would notice Grin

Quote from: m2017 on June 06, 2024, 05:52:43 AM

$15 million at that time (during Charles Ponzi’s life) and now are not equivalent amounts.

Accounting for inflation it's still much less than the amount we're talking about here. Investopedia says it's worth 220 million now.

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 06, 2024, 03:47:50 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on June 05, 2024, 02:40:39 PM

Fun fact: The bigger is your sandbox, the easier it is to hide another bag of sand.

I like your analogy. But, if you have a sandbox, would you really risk it all for one more bag of sand?

In this case, I assume the woman didn't have any sand and stole a desert Wink

Am sure if the woman in question knew about privacy coins and mixers, she would have done a great job at disguising the money to the ignorance of the government, but she didn't know otherwise and this is one reason why the government of many countries is sueing for regulation of cryptocurrency in every area so as to expose those who have hardened their heart to steal and launder money for their own benefits or for the benefits of others.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on May 31, 2024, 02:23:02 PM

Damn!

How do you get people to give you 5 billion dollars? I've seen some ponzi schemes and scams but they were usually in the millions, not billions. Even the famous Charles Ponzi stole $15 million.

$15 million at that time (during Charles Ponzi’s life) and now are not equivalent amounts.

Quote from: coolcoinz on May 31, 2024, 02:23:02 PM

She was delusional if she thought she could launder that much money. It's easy to hide $100k and not pay taxes from it, but once you start getting into millions it becomes much harder because expensive assets like real estate and cars can be registered. Someone has to pay property tax, get the required paperwork. You can't have 10 different names to hide 10 purchases because that's eventually going to come to light. You get into 100m+ and it becomes close to impossible.

But you can find 10 relatives (judging by the name Jian Wen, this should not be difficult for her) on whom to formalize these transactions.

^{This is not a recommendation for use.}

Quote from: SmartGold01 on May 30, 2024, 10:30:08 PM

A former takeaway worker found with Bitcoin worth more than £2bn was jailed for six years and eight months for a crime linked to money laundering on Friday.

Obviously, she was not the only one handling such huge sums. Where are the accomplices?

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She had a successful operation if ask me lol, btw this $2 billion is what they managed to seize from her in the UK meaning there is a possibility she might have had more Bitcoins elsewhere considering she traveled around boarders and had other properties in places like Switzerland , Dubai etc. This got me thinking is it possible that we haven't heard of Satoshi because he might have been bursted in this way after been found with a stash of coins **thinking outside the box **

Anyway was the lady tried in court or this was so unfair justice applied as the article only mentions of an investigation that has been going on for the past 5years...

Almost forgot, going through this story this will vindicate all critics that believe cryptocurrencies facilitate crime , but I think fiat has done more harm in facilitating criminal activities and they hardly admit to this fact .

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Quote from: btc78 on May 30, 2024, 10:38:11 PM

What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes? I would be interested to hear how she got that €2bn worth of bitcoin. How did she start? Did she just hold for a really long time? And a lot of other questions. Anyway it’s a shame to have finally all that amount of money just to go to jail.

A possible reason is the avoidance of tax payment, but if I were the one in the situation, I would go through it legally, especially since there is a lot of money involved in this, it can be questioned anytime and it will be more difficult to prove it, especially if the documents to be shown are lacking him in court. With such a large amount of investment, what is the value that will be paid in tax, right? if this is the reason, I hope he pays instead of getting into a worse situation. I don't want to assume or accuse, but if the reason is not tax avoidance, maybe it's because the money came from illegal things and crypto investment was just used as an excuse?

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Quote from: coolcoinz on June 05, 2024, 02:40:39 PM

Fun fact: The bigger is your sandbox, the easier it is to hide another bag of sand.

I like your analogy. But, if you have a sandbox, would you really risk it all for one more bag of sand?
In this case, I assume the woman didn't have any sand and stole a desert Wink

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 01, 2024, 03:15:04 AM

I guess it's one of those things that got out of hand Tongue

I'd estimate there are thousands if not millions of scammers, all trying to hit it big. This one hit the jackpot, and that was probably unexpected. This painted a bullseye on her back. Getting away with stealing $100 is a lot easier than getting away with stealing a billion.

She acted like there was no bullseye and still bought a ton of expensive stuff instead of laying low.

Quote

Now add a century of inflation and the internet! Mr. Ponzi did this offline.

Madoff also was doing most of his work via phone.

Quote

Speaking from experience? Tongue

Sure, I do. Need help with anything? Cool

Fun fact: The bigger is your sandbox, the easier it is to hide another bag of sand.

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Quote from: Plaguedeath on May 31, 2024, 12:53:13 AM

However, six years and eight months for $5 Billion is a good deal, she might not able to earn $5 Billion even she work very hard for seven years.

This is what I was thinking. Make Billions fraudulently, get a few years of jail time and you are out, free and ultra Rich too. It could sound like a viable plan to many people to be honest. Every day in prison for her is equal to 200 thousand Dollars. Now my question is, does she get to keep it or is it a permanent seizure? If anything, the Law in at least a few countries seems to pretty much encourage this behavior by being so easy on them. At least seize the goods or illegal Wealth.

Anyway. This is a surprisingly small punishment particularly considering this was a Bitcoin related crime. They typically seem to want to make those people an example to us. Or maybe the regulations became so rough for us Bitcoiners that they just do not even need to make examples any more.

-----

Quote from: AmoreJaz on June 01, 2024, 06:27:19 PM

I believe this woman is not operating on her own.

She is not, there are others who shared this information already,

Quote from: odolvlobo on May 31, 2024, 12:37:24 AM

Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/05/24/british-chinese-money-launder-sentenced-to-6-years-in-prison-for-role-in-6b-fraud-ft/

Wen was accused of laundering BTC on behalf of Yadi Zhang, whose real name is Zhimin Qian.

Zhimian is alleged to have defrauded around 130,000 investors in China in an investment scam that brought in $5 billion.

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Quote from: GbitG on June 01, 2024, 06:18:31 PM

Quote from: btc78 on May 30, 2024, 10:38:11 PM

What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes? I would be interested to hear how she got that €2bn worth of bitcoin. How did she start? Did she just hold for a really long time? And a lot of other questions. Anyway it’s a shame to have finally all that amount of money just to go to jail.

There is nothing surprising about it. You probably know how money laundering is done. If you don't know, then there is nothing. Let me tell you that money laundering is a process by which people take money from illegal activities. It is converted into assets that appear to be the owner of them, which means that the illegal cash is converted into such things, i.e. smuggled, that it is believed that the launderer is the real owner. In spite of that he is not the real owner of it.

Similarly, the same woman also laundered illegal Bitcoin and bought Luxury's car, jewelry, and house so that illegal Bitcoin could be converted into a ligimate (Valuable) asset.

And if there is a surprising thing, then it is not written in the news that this woman collected this Bitcoin, it is only mentioned that Bitcoin is money laundered in jewelry houses and cars. If anyone knows, please guide her. How did the woman get this Bitcoin?

I believe this woman is not operating on her own. If they are into bitcoin, they should know better how to handle privacy and other things. She may have flaunt what she's doing, hence, being hot on authorities. Because authorities won't come to this conclusion if they haven't done their homework first. So for me, she may be under investigation before they found her about her crypto activities. Now, if she has no proper documents to support her assets, definitely, she will be subjected UK laws regarding money laundering.

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Quote from: btc78 on May 30, 2024, 10:38:11 PM

What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes? I would be interested to hear how she got that €2bn worth of bitcoin. How did she start? Did she just hold for a really long time? And a lot of other questions. Anyway it’s a shame to have finally all that amount of money just to go to jail.

There is nothing surprising about it. You probably know how money laundering is done. If you don't know, then there is nothing. Let me tell you that money laundering is a process by which people take money from illegal activities. It is converted into assets that appear to be the owner of them, which means that the illegal cash is converted into such things, i.e. smuggled, that it is believed that the launderer is the real owner. In spite of that he is not the real owner of it.

Similarly, the same woman also laundered illegal Bitcoin and bought Luxury's car, jewelry, and house so that illegal Bitcoin could be converted into a ligimate (Valuable) asset.

And if there is a surprising thing, then it is not written in the news that this woman collected this Bitcoin, it is only mentioned that Bitcoin is money laundered in jewelry houses and cars. If anyone knows, please guide her. How did the woman get this Bitcoin?

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Most criminals get it wrong by involving in crime linked to money laundering in BTC [the Blockchain network is transparent that criminal activities can easily be dictated].£2bn that's a huge amount of money,the news gave a different headline that was far from holding for the long term,she was involved in a criminal act that wasn't mentioned but was linked to money laundering or could it be tax evasion no one knows.I've been coming across news about crime linked to money laundering in BTC and how they have been traced,that should give the government more impression that the Blockchain network is transparent.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on May 31, 2024, 02:23:02 PM

How do you get people to give you 5 billion dollars?

I guess it's one of those things that got out of hand Tongue

I'd estimate there are thousands if not millions of scammers, all trying to hit it big. This one hit the jackpot, and that was probably unexpected. This painted a bullseye on her back. Getting away with stealing $100 is a lot easier than getting away with stealing a billion.

Quote

I've seen some ponzi schemes and scams but they were usually in the millions, not billions. Even the famous Charles Ponzi stole $15 million.

Now add a century of inflation and the internet! Mr. Ponzi did this offline.

Quote

It's easy to hide $100k and not pay taxes from it

Speaking from experience? Tongue

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Quote from: nelson4lov on May 31, 2024, 05:30:44 PM

Her prison sentence definitely serves her right. She definitely knew what she was doing when she was laundering money for her boss so she has to get their own fair share of punishments now that shit has hit the fan. Soon, we're going to realize that some of the richest bitcoiners/crypto folks we see in CT or any other crypto communities amass those assets from non-legal means. We're not set for that story.

I'm sure that she's getting a good compensation with that. But she can literally stomach that money that others have worked hard for even though she's just a worker.

Even if she denies, her story isn't convincing and the background of her work surely gave her an idea on how the process goes with all of those conversion.

Quote from: nelson4lov on May 31, 2024, 05:30:44 PM

Hopefully those monies will be returned tl the defrauded victims.

I second that, the hardworking people regardless of the race deserves their own money that they sweat and worked for.

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That news article is a terrible journalism from bbc, i wonder if it should be called a news on their behalf.

Good thing there are other news outlets. Well, this is just click bait bad image for bitcoin. Anyway, investments fraud with that amount will always haunt you all over the world, good thing they were caught already, it's a karma point to all scammers.

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£2bn is quite a lot of money. And it’s sad that now she gets to face the consequences while the real owner of the money is anonymous. I am trying to imagine what form of business that produced such amount of money because I think it’s more than trying to launder money. It could be stolen money which makes sense why it is laundered. It doesn’t always have to be tax evasion.

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Quote from: avikz on May 31, 2024, 01:08:40 AM

Quote from: Plaguedeath on May 31, 2024, 12:53:13 AM

Sigh, the medias always use Bitcoin as a headline, reading the title it sounds like Bitcoin should be blamed since it was being used for money laundering.

~
Money laundering is happening since a long time and fiat is the main instrument for such illegal acts. There are countries like Switzerland, Cyprus or Cayman Islands whose economy is built on laundered money. No one talks about them!

Unfortunately the media wants attention by creating attention regarding things like Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Yep mate !
Exactly media is just highlighting only Bitcoin Despite Money Laundering is happened in Fiat currency more than Bitcoin.

Here we can clearly see that the world top money laundering cases are just found in fiat currency rather than Bitcoin. But instead of Fiat currency they are just putting the whole blame on Bitcoin. So this shows that these people are bent on defaming Bitcoin.

But here I will give an anti-venom response to these fiat lovers regarding blaming Bitcoin that fiat lovers have been late, Bitcoin has already given so much damage to their poor concept which was supposed to be worthless in the public eye, by the hand of Satoshi. Now blame Bitcoin no matter how much you say. But Bitcoin is not going to stop everyone from liking to take Bitcoin as compared to fiat and in future more people will adopt Bitcoin.

So the accusation of money laundering cannot undermine Bitcoin. Those who know prefer Bitcoin over fiat currency.

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Her prison sentence definitely serves her right. She definitely knew what she was doing when she was laundering money for her boss so she has to get their own fair share of punishments now that shit has hit the fan. Soon, we're going to realize that some of the richest bitcoiners/crypto folks we see in CT or any other crypto communities amass those assets from non-legal means. We're not set for that story.

Hopefully those monies will be returned tl the defrauded victims.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on May 31, 2024, 02:23:02 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on May 31, 2024, 12:37:24 AM

There are plenty of articles that explain more, such as this CoinDesk article:

Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/05/24/british-chinese-money-launder-sentenced-to-6-years-in-prison-for-role-in-6b-fraud-ft/

Wen was accused of laundering BTC on behalf of Yadi Zhang, whose real name is Zhimin Qian.

Zhimian is alleged to have defrauded around 130,000 investors in China in an investment scam that brought in $5 billion.

Damn!

How do you get people to give you 5 billion dollars? I've seen some ponzi schemes and scams but they were usually in the millions, not billions. Even the famous Charles Ponzi stole $15 million.

She was delusional if she thought she could launder that much money. It's easy to hide $100k and not pay taxes from it, but once you start getting into millions it becomes much harder because expensive assets like real estate and cars can be registered. Someone has to pay property tax, get the required paperwork. You can't have 10 different names to hide 10 purchases because that's eventually going to come to light. You get into 100m+ and it becomes close to impossible.

Well she has a boss who duped a lot of Chinese businessman and then run away. And then this person uses the woman, a Chinese-British to help in laundering this huge amount of Bitcoin. This man was already convicted last March.

Quote

Wen admitted to being control of a bitcoin wallet on behalf of her boss but claimed that she was unaware where the contents had come from.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/05/24/british-chinese-money-launder-sentenced-to-6-years-in-prison-for-role-in-6b-fraud-ft/

And she got what his boss got as well, guilty and six year and eight months in prison sentence.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on May 31, 2024, 02:23:02 PM

Damn!

How do you get people to give you 5 billion dollars? I've seen some ponzi schemes and scams but they were usually in the millions, not billions. Even the famous Charles Ponzi stole $15 million.

Probably this is a big syndicate that have rotated in China. And even though they've got a lot of money, they haven't been aware of the red flags of these ponzi scams that have been offered to them.

Quote from: coolcoinz on May 31, 2024, 02:23:02 PM

She was delusional if she thought she could launder that much money. It's easy to hide $100k and not pay taxes from it, but once you start getting into millions it becomes much harder because expensive assets like real estate and cars can be registered. Someone has to pay property tax, get the required paperwork.

That is what typically they do, it's a big network of these fraudsters and money launderers. And it's true, they will still be required to sign papers.

Quote from: coolcoinz on May 31, 2024, 02:23:02 PM

You can't have 10 different names to hide 10 purchases because that's eventually going to come to light. You get into 100m+ and it becomes close to impossible.

And what the next thing they do is to hire a dummy, a dummy that will serve as owners of those. I think this is common for most mafias and big scam networks.

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Quote from: OcTradism on May 30, 2024, 10:39:26 PM

Quote from: SmartGold01 on May 30, 2024, 10:30:08 PM

"Jian Wen, 42, was involved in converting Bitcoin into assets like luxury houses.

This link has very little information and you can get more detail there.
Woman found with £2bn in Bitcoin convicted of money laundering arrangement offence

This gives some more information but still not clear enough. Information like she claims to get money from Bitcoin mining, then buy luxury things, jewellery from her illegal money.

I don't see the article has details about here criminal activities, maybe more details will come later when government completes their investigation on this case.

it's impossible for him to get caught because because of the cases mentioned above, usually money laundering is always connected to dirty businesses such as money from jui business, official corruption and illegal transactions (drugs or weapons) but I'm sure the media is deliberately deviating a little because they get some small money catch. Bitcoin mining is not a serious crime, even in countries that prohibit Bitcoin mining, so a light warning should be given to the perpetrator.

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Quote from: odolvlobo on May 31, 2024, 12:37:24 AM

There are plenty of articles that explain more, such as this CoinDesk article:

Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/05/24/british-chinese-money-launder-sentenced-to-6-years-in-prison-for-role-in-6b-fraud-ft/

Wen was accused of laundering BTC on behalf of Yadi Zhang, whose real name is Zhimin Qian.

Zhimian is alleged to have defrauded around 130,000 investors in China in an investment scam that brought in $5 billion.

Damn!

How do you get people to give you 5 billion dollars? I've seen some ponzi schemes and scams but they were usually in the millions, not billions. Even the famous Charles Ponzi stole $15 million.

She was delusional if she thought she could launder that much money. It's easy to hide $100k and not pay taxes from it, but once you start getting into millions it becomes much harder because expensive assets like real estate and cars can be registered. Someone has to pay property tax, get the required paperwork. You can't have 10 different names to hide 10 purchases because that's eventually going to come to light. You get into 100m+ and it becomes close to impossible.

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Well, it is not really that unheard of, UK has a lot of criminals who leave their crimes in their own nation and go there, which doesn't mean that you can't do any crimes at UK, of course there are mobs and mafia there too, just means that foreign mobs go there to retire, whereas active ones work there.

A lot of foreign ones make billions, and they want to figure out a way to launder that money into UK systems, so that they can live happily ever after. Buying up houses is great, but you can't just buy a thousand houses that worths a million, you need to buy a few that worths a lot, to make it quicker. And this definitely is a great method, a lot of people do this in the USA as well, buy Manhattan skyscraper stuff, to launder it.

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Quote from: avikz on May 31, 2024, 01:08:40 AM

-snip-
Unfortunately the media wants attention by creating attention regarding things like Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Don't forget that now Bitcoin has even reached a new ATH that could make bitcoin haters manipulate the media Or those who want to change the view of bitcoin are always negative and make the price drop drastically to get a more DIP price.

They give it a controversial title so that someone can click it, but if you just read the headline without looking at the content of the story,
it would be misleading, that's often the case nowadays.

About the money laundering case described by the OP, That's not even compared to the biggest money laundering case in the world, like the one that happened to Wachovia Bank. In 2010, the bank was found to have been involved in money laundering belonging to Mexican drug cartels amounting to US$390 billion during the period 2004-2007.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs

But since the context involves bitcoin, money laundering news is always the subject of talk to discredit Bitcoin

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 31, 2024, 03:03:28 AM

Quote from: Catenaccio on May 31, 2024, 02:52:27 AM

Paying tax is to avoid legal troubles with government.
If you use illegal money to pay tax, you will have potential problems with governments and I believe no criminal will do it with their illegal money. They can try to do money laundering and get kind of legal money in their opinion, before they pay tax.

Say you have a billion dollars in a storage unit. You buy a car was in Albuquerque, and for every customer who washes their car, your wife Skyler enters an expensive car wash program into the cash registry. Then she adds the exact amount of criminal money into the drawer, and you can pay taxes on that amount. After that, you're just a very successful and tax paying car wash owner making loads of money from it!

Basically, what these guys need is just an active business to use and clean up their dirty money, not Bitcoin, as most people usually tag Bitcoin as the perfect means for such illegal activities. In fact, from observation, most of these offshore accounts and business owners are the perfect way to clean up their dirty money.

The car wash business is also a good example, as there is no price control of how much can be the maximum amount one can wash a single car, so you can increase the amount to any undoubtable number and make it official.

Big club houses are also perfect businesses that money launderers use; all that's needed is a registered business good accountant to cover up all the mess, and everything will be put in place unless there is a loophole that can also drag back attention to the place.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on May 30, 2024, 11:10:44 PM

yhiaali3, OcTradism, btc78, and any other person who may have more questions to ask there is more to it:

According to the investigations, she is linked to a wider fraudulent scheme that originated from China. And it involves more than 61,000 Bitcoin. And spending proceeds of crime money makes her accomplice in it.

Quote

The subsequent investigation culminated in police seizing devices containing 61,000 bitcoins — currently worth more than $4 billion — in 2018, in what was the UK's largest-ever crypto seizure.

The funds are said to have come from an investment fraud operation in China led by her "employer," Yadi Zhang.

In her sentencing remarks, Judge Sally-Ann Hales, KC, said that more than 128,000 investors pumped 40 billion Renminbi (roughly $5.6 billion) into the scheme.

"Some of the proceeds of this fraud were exchanged for bitcoin, loaded onto a cryptocurrency wallet and smuggled out of China on a laptop," she added.

This news source added more details - https://africa.businessinsider.com/news/former-chinese-takeaway-worker-jailed-for-money-laundering-after-police-seized-61000/7zb0m8r

I knew that something fishy must have been behind this and not just proceeds of Bitcoin mining. All these guys that steal people's funds through dubious means are the main anti bitcoinner that are tarnishing the image of genuine Bitcoin users making it seems as though anyone that's getting involved in Bitcoin holding got is Bitcoin from a wrong and illegitimate source.

If it's true that the Bitcoin in her possession are product of fraudulent endeavors then she deserve what she's getting cause she's truly an enemy to the effectiveness of the decentralized system.

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 31, 2024, 03:03:28 AM

Quote from: Catenaccio on May 31, 2024, 02:52:27 AM

Paying tax is to avoid legal troubles with government.
If you use illegal money to pay tax, you will have potential problems with governments and I believe no criminal will do it with their illegal money. They can try to do money laundering and get kind of legal money in their opinion, before they pay tax.

Say you have a billion dollars in a storage unit. You buy a car was in Albuquerque, and for every customer who washes their car, your wife Skyler enters an expensive car wash program into the cash registry. Then she adds the exact amount of criminal money into the drawer, and you can pay taxes on that amount. After that, you're just a very successful and tax paying car wash owner making loads of money from it!

Breaking Bad as a reference. Cheesy

Indeed that's what money laundering is and launderers don't care how much money they lose in the name of tax because they want to spend the money they had or unless it is going to end up like what happened to Walter white's meth empire money that will be buried in the desert.

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Quote from: Catenaccio on May 31, 2024, 02:52:27 AM

Paying tax is to avoid legal troubles with government.
If you use illegal money to pay tax, you will have potential problems with governments and I believe no criminal will do it with their illegal money. They can try to do money laundering and get kind of legal money in their opinion, before they pay tax.

Say you have a billion dollars in a storage unit. You buy a car was in Albuquerque, and for every customer who washes their car, your wife Skyler enters an expensive car wash program into the cash registry. Then she adds the exact amount of criminal money into the drawer, and you can pay taxes on that amount. After that, you're just a very successful and tax paying car wash owner making loads of money from it!

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 31, 2024, 02:06:21 AM

This is a common misconception.

I agree tax evasion does not equal to money laundering because a person with legal money from jobs can still do tax evasion.

Quote

Money laundering is almost the opposite of tax evasion: criminals with illegal money want to pay taxes, so they can spend their money.

I only don't understand it all.

Paying tax is to avoid legal troubles with government.
If you use illegal money to pay tax, you will have potential problems with governments and I believe no criminal will do it with their illegal money. They can try to do money laundering and get kind of legal money in their opinion, before they pay tax.

Quote

That's why they launder money, and that includes paying taxes.

It can be one of their choices but not their first choice because it is so risky.

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Quote from: Sebas.tian on May 30, 2024, 11:32:46 PM

I think, she has some assets she sold some years ago that gave her some huge amount of capital to invest in Bitcoin, that made her to achieved the €2b worth of Bitcoin. The mistakes she made is to released all her Bitcoin to acquired those assets in her country when she knew that Bitcoin is illegal in that particular country,

Is bitcoin illegal in the UK? I don’t think so.

Quote

because the amount of funds she use to purchased all those assets at once, it will make the government to suspect her for money laundry.

There is not much details in the article so we can’t make much assumptions however I think what she did wrong is that she did not have the appropriate documents revealing her assets. Even if it is in crypto form, in the eyes of the government you have to let them know about it. Which a lot of crypto enthusiasts are not very happy about since they greatly value their privacy.

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Quote from: btc78 on May 30, 2024, 10:38:11 PM

What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes?

This is a common misconception. Money laundering is almost the opposite of tax evasion: criminals with illegal money want to pay taxes, so they can spend their money. Having 2 billion pounds in stolen money doesn't do you any good if you can't spend it, which means you need to make it look as if you're the legal owner of that criminal money. That's why they launder money, and that includes paying taxes. Even if half of it would go to taxes, having 1 billion that you can spend is still a lot better than having 2 billion which you can't spend.

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Quote from: Plaguedeath on May 31, 2024, 12:53:13 AM

Sigh, the medias always use Bitcoin as a headline, reading the title it sounds like Bitcoin should be blamed since it was being used for money laundering.

That's what! Media houses will always highlight Bitcoin here because they know it will generate more search value and make people intrigued to click on their link.

Money laundering is happening since a long time and fiat is the main instrument for such illegal acts. There are countries like Switzerland, Cyprus or Cayman Islands whose economy is built on laundered money. No one talks about them!

Unfortunately the media wants attention by creating attention regarding things like Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

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Sigh, the medias always use Bitcoin as a headline, reading the title it sounds like Bitcoin should be blamed since it was being used for money laundering. While she's just converting the money to Bitcoin and then use it to buy luxury houses, if Bitcoin is the best way to launder money, she wouldn't get caught.

However, six years and eight months for $5 Billion is a good deal, she might not able to earn $5 Billion even she work very hard for seven years.

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There are plenty of articles that explain more, such as this CoinDesk article:

Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/05/24/british-chinese-money-launder-sentenced-to-6-years-in-prison-for-role-in-6b-fraud-ft/

Wen was accused of laundering BTC on behalf of Yadi Zhang, whose real name is Zhimin Qian.

Zhimian is alleged to have defrauded around 130,000 investors in China in an investment scam that brought in $5 billion.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on May 30, 2024, 11:10:44 PM

According to the investigations, she is linked to a wider fraudulent scheme that originated from China. And it involves more than 61,000 Bitcoin. And spending proceeds of crime money makes her accomplice in it.

So basically she's a front for the operation and they've chosen UK as the place to clean their money through this means, is that correct? 61k bitcoin is just a really huge number, I do feel like there's more to this than just a syndicate and I think that there's a Chinese government involvement here because there's no way that they're letting this 2 billions pounds worth of bitcoin get laundered unnoticed, I think that it's the Chinese government that's got this operation when you try and dig through it.

Quote from: Sebas.tian on May 30, 2024, 11:32:46 PM

I think, she has some assets she sold some years ago that gave her some huge amount of capital to invest in Bitcoin, that made her to achieved the €2b worth of Bitcoin. The mistakes she made is to released all her Bitcoin to acquired those assets in her country when she knew that Bitcoin is illegal in that particular country, because the amount of funds she use to purchased all those assets at once, it will make the government to suspect her for money laundry. I don't think, the six years in prison will make her to forget her mistakes she made to released all her Bitcoin to loss all her life savings to government, because it will be very hard for her lawyer to win such case for her favourite.

If you've read what @Davidvictorson posted, you'd know that she's already a part of a money laundering scheme that aims to clean those bitcoins and avoid as much tax as possible through various ways of cleaning those bitcoins, that's why she got those properties to make it look like the money came from real estate or something.

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I think, she has some assets she sold some years ago that gave her some huge amount of capital to invest in Bitcoin, that made her to achieved the €2b worth of Bitcoin. The mistakes she made is to released all her Bitcoin to acquired those assets in her country when she knew that Bitcoin is illegal in that particular country, because the amount of funds she use to purchased all those assets at once, it will make the government to suspect her for money laundry. I don't think, the six years in prison will make her to forget her mistakes she made to released all her Bitcoin to loss all her life savings to government, because it will be very hard for her lawyer to win such case for her favourite.

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yhiaali3, OcTradism, btc78, and any other person who may have more questions to ask there is more to it:

According to the investigations, she is linked to a wider fraudulent scheme that originated from China. And it involves more than 61,000 Bitcoin. And spending proceeds of crime money makes her accomplice in it.

Quote

The subsequent investigation culminated in police seizing devices containing 61,000 bitcoins — currently worth more than $4 billion — in 2018, in what was the UK's largest-ever crypto seizure.

The funds are said to have come from an investment fraud operation in China led by her "employer," Yadi Zhang.

In her sentencing remarks, Judge Sally-Ann Hales, KC, said that more than 128,000 investors pumped 40 billion Renminbi (roughly $5.6 billion) into the scheme.

"Some of the proceeds of this fraud were exchanged for bitcoin, loaded onto a cryptocurrency wallet and smuggled out of China on a laptop," she added.

This news source added more details - https://africa.businessinsider.com/news/former-chinese-takeaway-worker-jailed-for-money-laundering-after-police-seized-61000/7zb0m8r

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As bitcoin slowly but surely becomes used for transactions(and it will mostly happen first for more expensive things like in this case), the more stories like this would become far more common.

Idk, it just makes far more sense if you want to transact "in private" lol.

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The ready charge for anyone found working with cryptocurrencies for large amounts will be money laundering. I really don't know whether this woman laundered money or did she just buy luxury homes and jewelry worth millions of pounds sterling?

There is nothing in the news that indicates that she robbed an exchange or another service or committed fraud. There are no details about the source of her money. Perhaps her crime is only that she converted this large amount of Bitcoin into the equivalent of about 2 billion pounds sterling, which is a very large sum that would attract the attention of the police.

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Quote from: SmartGold01 on May 30, 2024, 10:30:08 PM

"Jian Wen, 42, was involved in converting Bitcoin into assets like luxury houses.

This link has very little information and you can get more detail there.
Woman found with £2bn in Bitcoin convicted of money laundering arrangement offence

This gives some more information but still not clear enough. Information like she claims to get money from Bitcoin mining, then buy luxury things, jewellery from her illegal money.

I don't see the article has details about here criminal activities, maybe more details will come later when government completes their investigation on this case.

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What I am wondering about is why did she have to launder the money? Is it because she did not want to pay taxes? I would be interested to hear how she got that €2bn worth of bitcoin. How did she start? Did she just hold for a really long time? And a lot of other questions. Anyway it’s a shame to have finally all that amount of money just to go to jail.

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"Jian Wen, 42, was involved in converting Bitcoin into assets like luxury houses.

A former takeaway worker found with Bitcoin worth more than £2bn was jailed for six years and eight months for a crime linked to money laundering on Friday. Jian Wen, 42, from Hendon, in north London, was involved in converting the currency into assets including multi-million-pound houses and jewellery.

At Southwark Crown court in March, she was convicted of entering into or becoming concerned in a money laundering arrangement.The Metropolitan Police said at the time of the conviction the seizure was the largest of its kind in the UK."

When I came across this news on a bbc.com website I couldn't believed it but was moved to share over here to know her involvement as when she started making investment to have worth almost €2b worth in bitcoin, most times it's hard to believe story like this.

The floor is open for discussion (if this already discussed then remind me to Lock this topic).

Topic: [Bitcoin] woman found with £2bn worth of bitcoin (Read 623 times)