Bitcoin&Altcoins - Fake Investment Products That Pollute the Environment

antikvark

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Quote from: skiorf on April 09, 2020, 12:53:42 AM

the pros and cons about bitcoin are always there. If you say Bitcoin and altcoin are fake investment products that pollute the environment, it's your right to say.

But before you say bitcoin is a fake form of investment you must know the technology it has, you have to read a lot about the positive side of blockchain, bitcoin and cryptocurrency. so you can compare it.

The risk of very volatile prices is indeed a feature of bitcoin and altcoin. But Bitcoin is now a valuable digital currency.

If you don't like bitcoin and Altcoin then what is your purpose to create an account in this forum?

My purpose is to educate you that you're part of an investment scheme that thrives on new investors only. And that empirically all such schemes end up collapsing.

skiorf

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the pros and cons about bitcoin are always there. If you say Bitcoin and altcoin are fake investment products that pollute the environment, it's your right to say.

But before you say bitcoin is a fake form of investment you must know the technology it has, you have to read a lot about the positive side of blockchain, bitcoin and cryptocurrency. so you can compare it.

The risk of very volatile prices is indeed a feature of bitcoin and altcoin. But Bitcoin is now a valuable digital currency.

If you don't like bitcoin and Altcoin then what is your purpose to create an account in this forum?

antikvark

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Quote from: Ridwan Fauzi on April 08, 2020, 09:52:26 AM

Maybe you came to the wrong forum, I mean when you didn't like to the something then why you are trying to fight it.

In this case you didn't like bitcoin, as your post history tell that you are really didn't like bitcoin. But I just wanna know, what your intention here?

Honestly, I still believe into bitcoin although you proof many things about the negative side about bitcoin. Also, the most user here will also take a decision to give positif view into bitcoin.

You can't like bitcoin or believe in it. Bitcoin is just a number next to your virtual address. You people must stop treating bitcoin like it is a person or deity.

Ridwan Fauzi

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Maybe you came to the wrong forum, I mean when you didn't like to the something then why you are trying to fight it.

In this case you didn't like bitcoin, as your post history tell that you are really didn't like bitcoin. But I just wanna know, what your intention here?

Honestly, I still believe into bitcoin although you proof many things about the negative side about bitcoin. Also, the most user here will also take a decision to give positif view into bitcoin.

antikvark

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Quote from: leea-1334 on April 08, 2020, 03:20:59 AM

But investing into bitcoin IS investing into something real. People invest in gold but have they ever seen the gold itself? Just certificates and online accounts. BTC is a network,,, and is highly secure and is as real as can be. I can use it every day, people use it to pay bills, to get things, to ensure no one else controls their money.

No it is not. "Investing" into Bitcoin is transferring your investment to old investors and getting numerical "signature"/mark next to your virtual address for that. Gold is a commodity, a tangible good and has nothing to do with Bitcoin. Regarding payment. You can pay with Ponzi membership stakes if someone accepts them. But you still need new investors to profit from them. So the fact that you use something for payment is besides the point of this topic.

antikvark

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Quote from: 1scripter on April 08, 2020, 03:15:32 AM

And in your opinion, the print of dollars does not pollute the environment?

No, it does not. Something like 98% of dollars are "printed" with the press of a button. Only 2% are printed on paper.

leea-1334

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But investing into bitcoin IS investing into something real. People invest in gold but have they ever seen the gold itself? Just certificates and online accounts. BTC is a network,,, and is highly secure and is as real as can be. I can use it every day, people use it to pay bills, to get things, to ensure no one else controls their money.

1scripter

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And in your opinion, the print of dollars does not pollute the environment?

antikvark

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Quote from: Rengga Jati on April 07, 2020, 06:26:12 PM

I bet if you have had a bad experience with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. I understand this because not everyone can handle this problem well.

Well, apart from that, do you think investing is something that "there shouldn't be new investors"? Because you say that without new investors, Bitcoin is nothing. Then, what about other investments? They also certainly get new investors every day, both in the field of property or other stocks.

https://i.imgur.com/IRUDra7.png?1

So from here, why should be debated whether Bitcoin is the real or fake investment? It's clear from the meaning of "investment" itself.
Except that you are investing in the shit product or coins that make no profits and then make you lost your money forever, that is the fake investment I think.
But here, for me personally, Bitcoin is a worthy investment. That is my opinion.

By this general definition, Ponzi and pyramid schemes are also real investment products. Check my definitions above to find out how to differentiate between real and fake ones.

antikvark

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Quote from: BrewMaster on April 07, 2020, 11:14:07 AM

a fake investment is when you are investing in something useless. it is like if you were investing in bags of dog shit and kept buying more of it. since it is useless, it is a fake investment. similarly investing in altcoins that are useless fall under the same definition.

but when what you buy has utilities such as bitcoin (a decentralized payment system) then the investment is meaningful.

you argument can NOT be about whether bitcoin is fake investment or polluting environment. your arguments MUST be about why you think bitcoin is useless when it is clearly providing hundreds of thousands of people all around the world a great and unique utility?

No, a fake investment product is when profits for investors can come only and only from new investors. A real investment product is when profits for investors can come from both, new investors and business arrangement behind the investment product. Moreover, the latter is what constitutes the real value of a product. Meaning, the real value of a product where profits can come only from new investors is zero.

antikvark

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Quote from: Lucius on April 07, 2020, 08:41:23 AM

Quote from: davis196 on April 07, 2020, 06:13:24 AM

It's always good to have some people with different opinions here,even though some of them might be trolls.
I would rather discuss with some anti-bitcoiner,rather than seeing no difference in opinions and no contradictions.
This forum shouldn't become a Bitcoin sect,where all the people see BTC as a religion and scream "Hail Bitcoin!" everyday. Grin

The user in question does not deserve any attention, much less anyone taking it seriously. Does it make sense to have a discussion with someone who is clearly suffering from some kind of psychological disorder, who expresses it in a way that opens a thread after a thread and constantly puts forward the same ideas?

Most users will disagree with you, but If you like to spending your time in pointless discussions with trolls, it may only tells something about you. For most, however, quality is not important - only the quantity of posts...

I am just stating the same fact from different angles. This is not sign of psychological disorder, but patience in explaining facts to those who repeatedly deny them. You should thank me and not insult me for that.

Rengga Jati

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Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

I bet if you have had a bad experience with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. I understand this because not everyone can handle this problem well.

Well, apart from that, do you think investing is something that "there shouldn't be new investors"? Because you say that without new investors, Bitcoin is nothing. Then, what about other investments? They also certainly get new investors every day, both in the field of property or other stocks.

So from here, why should be debated whether Bitcoin is the real or fake investment? It's clear from the meaning of "investment" itself.
Except that you are investing in the shit product or coins that make no profits and then make you lost your money forever, that is the fake investment I think.
But here, for me personally, Bitcoin is a worthy investment. That is my opinion.

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

a fake investment is when you are investing in something useless. it is like if you were investing in bags of dog shit and kept buying more of it. since it is useless, it is a fake investment. similarly investing in altcoins that are useless fall under the same definition.

but when what you buy has utilities such as bitcoin (a decentralized payment system) then the investment is meaningful.

you argument can NOT be about whether bitcoin is fake investment or polluting environment. your arguments MUST be about why you think bitcoin is useless when it is clearly providing hundreds of thousands of people all around the world a great and unique utility?

Lucius

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Quote from: davis196 on April 07, 2020, 06:13:24 AM

It's always good to have some people with different opinions here,even though some of them might be trolls.
I would rather discuss with some anti-bitcoiner,rather than seeing no difference in opinions and no contradictions.
This forum shouldn't become a Bitcoin sect,where all the people see BTC as a religion and scream "Hail Bitcoin!" everyday. Grin

The user in question does not deserve any attention, much less anyone taking it seriously. Does it make sense to have a discussion with someone who is clearly suffering from some kind of psychological disorder, who expresses it in a way that opens a thread after a thread and constantly puts forward the same ideas?

Most users will disagree with you, but If you like to spending your time in pointless discussions with trolls, it may only tells something about you. For most, however, quality is not important - only the quantity of posts...

Anonylz

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i guess that is why it is referred to as digital because you can't see it in reality but only in digital form, i don't think investing in btc is that different from other actual investment like real estate because they both needs new investors to flourish, between there is nothing fake about something is been use for trade and transaction, some other alts coin are now backed by real use cases don't that explain that some are real.

Pixyoxx

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Bitcoins and other crypto are not fake investment products as i am my self trading in bitcoins for a long time now it can be used as a substitute of cash and in times like these crypto can be used as investment and i don't think that in any way bitcoin and altcoins do not pollute environment in any way Wink

antikvark

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Quote from: kryptqnick on April 07, 2020, 05:23:28 AM

Quote from: antikvark on April 06, 2020, 12:39:11 PM

In the below linked presentation, Bitcoin is exposed as a fake investment product, which as such, is a total waste of energy. This also applies to all cryptocurrencies.

Why is bitcoin a fake investment product? Or, to put it another way, how do we even differentiate between real and fake ones. Well, it's easy. In a real investment product, your investment of property or work is invested into something actual, which in the future, can provide you similar benefit. In a fake investment product, your investment is not actually invested into something, but is rather, just transferred from you as a new investor to old investor. Historically, there is no exception to the rule that all such products end up collapsing.

The rest here: https://youtu.be/N5RKm7_scL4

First and foremost, Bitcoin is money, not an investment product. Some people make their savings in USD, also hoping a bit that the relation between the USD and local fiat might change, and thus this would become profitable. This is how I view Bitcoin. Not as something into which I invest and expect it to grow, but something in which my savings are, and something I'd hopefully be able to use more in the future. On the other hand, the line between 'something actual' and 'fake' is very blurred. There are some things people truly need, so investing in it could be called investing in something real. An example is buying a flat which you can rent to others or live in. However, many investments aren't that easy. For instance, when personal computers weren't really a thing, many people did not believe it would make sense to invest in Apple, 'cause who'd need a machine like that at home? Or, even more surreal, let's take something like the first social networks where people could just talk and not 'really talk'. So Bitcoin might get really useful and something people can't imagine their life without in the future, and in this sense, it's not a fake investment if you look at it from this perspective.

You don't get it, do you? The fact is that Bitcoin is a number attached to your virtual address. Without new investors it is as useless as a dirt particle. You can call it money, savings, asset, coin, token, digital gold or whatever. You can compare it to USD, EUR, GBP... but you still require new investors to get benefit from it. Real investment products, real money, real assets... can provide benefit without new investors. That's the whole point.

davis196

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Do you know the difference between cryptocurrencies and stocks.Cryptocurrencies aren't designed to payout dividends.Therefore you are not distinguishing trading from investing.Some people invest in stocks,while other people are trading stocks.The stock traders aren't waiting for dividends,they buying low and selling high.
The term "investment product" is really disturbing here. Grin

I don't want to comment all the mistakes in that Youtube video.OP,just read more books about economy and finance and go to a university,if you are interested in that subject.

Quote from: Lucius on April 07, 2020, 06:09:09 AM

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

Regardless of all your arguments, the OP will never change his position, and any discussion with him is completely pointless. It is enough to look at his post history and everything will be clear.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;threads;u=2678368;sa=showPosts

It's always good to have some people with different opinions here,even though some of them might be trolls.
I would rather discuss with some anti-bitcoiner,rather than seeing no difference in opinions and no contradictions.
This forum shouldn't become a Bitcoin sect,where all the people see BTC as a religion and scream "Hail Bitcoin!" everyday. Grin

Lucius

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Blackjack.fun-Free Raffle-Join&Win $50🎲

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

Regardless of all your arguments, the OP will never change his position, and any discussion with him is completely pointless. It is enough to look at his post history and everything will be clear.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;threads;u=2678368;sa=showPosts

kryptqnick

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Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: antikvark on April 06, 2020, 12:39:11 PM

In the below linked presentation, Bitcoin is exposed as a fake investment product, which as such, is a total waste of energy. This also applies to all cryptocurrencies.

Why is bitcoin a fake investment product? Or, to put it another way, how do we even differentiate between real and fake ones. Well, it's easy. In a real investment product, your investment of property or work is invested into something actual, which in the future, can provide you similar benefit. In a fake investment product, your investment is not actually invested into something, but is rather, just transferred from you as a new investor to old investor. Historically, there is no exception to the rule that all such products end up collapsing.

The rest here: https://youtu.be/N5RKm7_scL4

First and foremost, Bitcoin is money, not an investment product. Some people make their savings in USD, also hoping a bit that the relation between the USD and local fiat might change, and thus this would become profitable. This is how I view Bitcoin. Not as something into which I invest and expect it to grow, but something in which my savings are, and something I'd hopefully be able to use more in the future. On the other hand, the line between 'something actual' and 'fake' is very blurred. There are some things people truly need, so investing in it could be called investing in something real. An example is buying a flat which you can rent to others or live in. However, many investments aren't that easy. For instance, when personal computers weren't really a thing, many people did not believe it would make sense to invest in Apple, 'cause who'd need a machine like that at home? Or, even more surreal, let's take something like the first social networks where people could just talk and not 'really talk'. So Bitcoin might get really useful and something people can't imagine their life without in the future, and in this sense, it's not a fake investment if you look at it from this perspective.

maydna

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The easy way to invest is you can choose by yourself whether you want to invest in bitcoin or other coin or you want to invest with the other which have the investment product as you say. People cannot be forced to buy the investment because they have the right to choose. So in this matter, let people choose what type of investment they want, and if they're going to select bitcoin which don't have the investment product, we cannot do anything except accepting what they choose. That is why they need to research the investment before they spend their money to invest in preventing from the wrong thing that they don't know, and they can do something if that thing is not right.

avikz

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Quote from: antikvark on April 06, 2020, 12:39:11 PM

In the below linked presentation, Bitcoin is exposed as a fake investment product, which as such, is a total waste of energy. This also applies to all cryptocurrencies.

Why is bitcoin a fake investment product? Or, to put it another way, how do we even differentiate between real and fake ones. Well, it's easy. In a real investment product, your investment of property or work is invested into something actual, which in the future, can provide you similar benefit. In a fake investment product, your investment is not actually invested into something, but is rather, just transferred from you as a new investor to old investor. Historically, there is no exception to the rule that all such products end up collapsing.

The rest here: https://youtu.be/N5RKm7_scL4

In a democracy, criticism is always welcome! It actually one of the key foundation of a democracy. Since bitcoin or the crypto market is democratic in nature, I see no issue when people criticizes it. It will only matter if the majority thinks in a similar way. Looking at the channel, it is clear that they are very new and probably trying to get some views by posting something controversial. So we can safely overlook such videos as it makes no sense to us! It's also a democratic right after all!

babykika2027

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Bitcoin affection to environment is not so big actually. Haters are just searching reasons to hate btc and crypto

boyptc

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All of us are using bitcoin as an investment but those people say that bitcoin is a fake are missing the point why bitcoin was made by satoshi.

It's made as a peer to peer e-cash system. Then being an investment is just the latter.

Utoy101

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Quote from: antikvark on April 06, 2020, 12:39:11 PM

Why is bitcoin a fake investment product? Or, to put it another way, how do we even differentiate between real and fake ones. Well, it's easy. In a real investment product, your investment of property or work is invested into something actual, which in the future, can provide you similar benefit. In a fake investment product, your investment is not actually invested into something, but is rather, just transferred from you as a new investor to old investor. Historically, there is no exception to the rule that all such products end up collapsing.

All i can say is that the person need to learn about the concept of bitcoin and cryptocurrency generally, the market might have seen some bad eggs to the unregulated nature of cryptocurrency market but crypto is real due. The concept behind the creation of cryptocurrency is to provide the world with a digitized currency that will give full control to people on how to manage their financial life and that is why the idea of cryptocurrency promotes an anonymous transaction which is traceable but cannot be modified. People that offen say things like this are people that see cryptocurrencies as an investment option meant for taking off profits due to it's price fluctuation and not seeing it from the perspective of decentralized finanacial system.

jackg

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Quote from: antikvark on April 06, 2020, 12:39:11 PM

Why is bitcoin a fake investment product? Or, to put it another way, how do we even differentiate between real and fake ones. Well, it's easy. In a real investment product, your investment of property or work is invested into something actual, which in the future, can provide you similar benefit. In a fake investment product, your investment is not actually invested into something, but is rather, just transferred from you as a new investor to old investor. Historically, there is no exception to the rule that all such products end up collapsing.

Bitcoin is a replacement for cash. The same you have just said there is the same that could be said about cash? You're investing in something (or earning somethiing) that is just going to not be worth anything in the future but is just a change of state. Your hours turn to $£euro or btc and then you can choose to invest them into other stuff.

the interesting part isn't the currency itself but it's what you could do with the power of the blockchain. It's both overestimated and underestimated in its power. But if we go off current ideas and lots of things such as real estate and stocks are put on the chain, we use the current legislation:
1. You list a house for sale, and allow for viewings, signing your key to suggest you own it
2. Someone makes an offer you want to accept
3. A multisig is entered into with your house, their funds, and two solicitors to authenticate everything (or just a registrar instead of solicitors).
4. The house sale can go ahead if all conditions in the multisig contract are fulfilled. Different entities such as your serveyor and builder could be added to the contract so you don't have to search for/order paperwork.

Similar products such as decentralised finance are becoming available too, such as up to 8%/3%/1% on DAI/ETH/BTC...

antikvark

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In the below linked presentation, Bitcoin is exposed as a fake investment product, which as such, is a total waste of energy. This also applies to all cryptocurrencies.

Why is bitcoin a fake investment product? Or, to put it another way, how do we even differentiate between real and fake ones. Well, it's easy. In a real investment product, your investment of property or work is invested into something actual, which in the future, can provide you similar benefit. In a fake investment product, your investment is not actually invested into something, but is rather, just transferred from you as a new investor to old investor. Historically, there is no exception to the rule that all such products end up collapsing.

The rest here: https://youtu.be/N5RKm7_scL4

Topic: Bitcoin&Altcoins - Fake Investment Products That Pollute the Environment (Read 238 times)