Topic: Bitcoins and other cryptos will never become mainstream before... (Read 679 times)

The ETF move will certainly bring mainstream exposure to crypto assets. People will start looking at BTC and altcoins as a legitimate asset class. For something that was once considered "the wild west", I'd say we're making progress. Eventually, crypto enemies (Jamie Dimon, Warren Buffet, Elizabeth Warren, etc.) will take what they've said back, as they'll be left with no other choice. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?

With crypto on the road towards non-stop success, we should accumulate as much coins as possible for the next bull market. Just buy, hodl, and forget about the rest.

We can see now after 13 years of bitcoin existence that people are adopting this currencies   mate because we are only focusing in Bitcoin in which indeed the best one but we forgot to mention altcoins that also have their own users yet stands as cryptocurrencies.


what I am telling here is that the Mainstreaming needs to be conclude to the whole market and not just only one , we must also accept that their existence is legit now and serving all the people around the globe so better called Mainstream of crypto with Bitcoin leadership.


this is in mainstream now mate , as those are being called mostly in bad scenarios that make it more popular from the eye of the world.

If LN would really be that something could be finalized or something that could really be able to enhanced out then pretty sure it would be that something that will really be solving out that kind of problem.
When it comes to utility then we do know that people would really be liking to see on how Bitcoin would really be integrated when we do speak about payment option. Now that we've seen that
Bitcoin ETF's had been that approved then it would really be that safe to assume that adoption rate and recognition did really reach out on a point that it is really that that
getting that much attention yet it has come through this.

Never become a mainstream? Possible but we do know that it could really be that something having that utility and plus we wont really be that becoming so big
if there would be having no kind of interest and adoption of course.

Certainly, We understand the sentiment expressed. It's true that for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin to become truly mainstream, they need to address the everyday needs of the average person, such as buying water bottles or other common goods. The practical utility and ease of use in daily transactions are crucial for widespread adoption.

The observation about the political nature of the challenge is an interesting perspective. The existing financial system, influenced by deep-rooted institutions, does present obstacles to the seamless integration of cryptocurrencies into everyday life. Overcoming these barriers requires not only technological advancements but also broader societal changes and acceptance.

It's essential to consider the evolving landscape and recognize that cryptocurrencies are still in their early stages of development. As the technology matures and the regulatory environment becomes clearer, there is potential for increased integration into mainstream activities. However, achieving this will require a delicate balance between innovation, regulation, and societal acceptance.

It's already been more than 10 years. And billions of dollars have been poured into the problem. And Bitcoin is slower and more expensive now than it's ever been.

I'm betting the other way, personally.

I think Bitcoin ETF approval is good news not only for Bitcoin but for overall crypto as a whole.

Recently, I heard the Blackrock CEO say they will apply for Ethereum ETF. And we know it whenever Blackrock applies for an ETF, then they get it. At least that's what happened every time, excluding one time when it was denied.

We will soon see people using ATMs to exchange their crypto for fiat quickly after seeing chains like BNB do it quicker than Bitcoin.
Bitcoin might not be used all the time but will remain OG crypto.

I think decentralized cryptocurrencies can scale to the level of VISA/Mastercard via the use of an off-chain scaling solution (aka Layer-Two). The only problem is that you still need to pay an on-chain fee (usually high) to open/close channels. If there was a way to circumvent that, Bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrencies would be on a road towards massive adoption worldwide. I've been doing some "digging" and found a Bitcoin L2 network called "Ark". It's privacy-focused and doesn't require you to pay on-chain fees to interact with it. Maybe someday the Lightning Network will use this technique? I hope so, especially when there's huge interest into BTC and altcoins.

I'd bet 10 years from now, BTC would've already solved its scaling issues without sacrificing decentralization. The future is not set, so anything's possible.

Look at the future of this blockchain technology. Was it born of a more liberal alien civilization which I interpret from your statement as a disruptive event for most other industries but Bitcoin is more than just a digital currency friends.

I don't like to discuss this in the political realm, there is quite a lot of drama there and don't think that it is the main source of failure in meeting the needs of society as a whole and you compare it with the history of money in other realms for now, but I am also very confident that this technology will quickly be adopted universally only However, there are still many banking countries that are still reluctant to embrace this alternative.

Um, I've used Bitcoin. Many times. It didn't make me feel any different .

I can certainly see where Bitcoin will have niches e.g. countries where the government is corrupt and unstable, and I should have qualified my comment above.

However, as it's mainstream appeal, Bitcoin is an investment, and it's an investment in a "name", not an investment based on it's practical use (there are thousands of other cryptocurrencies that do what Bitcoin does for your country, and now pure digital currencies that will serve as a means of value transfer far better than Bitcoin or any blockchain-based currency).

The water bottles was used as an example to represent basic items. Well, people might not be using Bitcoin to buy a lot of their basic items, probably considering the high fees, but when the dust settles, I'm sure many things can be purchased with Bitcoin in El Salvador and beyond. Personally I have paid for many things through Bitcoin even across borders.


I disagree with you that Bitcoin is a "mem". That is far from the truth and seem to me like FUD. If you have not used Bitcoin, then you will never know the power it carries. If you come from a country like mine where there are several restrictions to FX, you will appreciate Bitcoin better. We cherish Bitcoin here because we know how difficult it is for the average man to do business across the globe even in remittances. So Bitcoin is far from being a meme.

Exactly! It doesn't mean that if bitcoin has been adopted worldwide or most of the countries accept it, it should be used like fiat money. No, if it happens that bitcoin becomes accepted in the society and most of the country, it will become like other fiat money and an other option of payment, so the people can have a chance to use their assets to purchase things, but of course before it happens, there will be a long process and plan on how bitcoin can be used in the society, and of course, a set of rules and laws will be implemented. And of course you can't buy anything with bitcoin, for example, a bottle of water. Will you use your precious asset for that? Maybe bitcoin will be used in transactions that have a high value. As we know, bitcoin is peer-to-peer so it's safe to do big transactions through bitcoin. OP's classification of mainstream is different from ours, but it is his opinion.

Until the basic laws of physics are repealed, there will be no way a decentralized infrastructure will scale to the level needed to truly take on the world-wide credit card infrastructure (which is just a start in taking over currency generally).

And even centralized cryptocurrencies using blockchain are too slow and expensive to scale to this level. XRP touts aspirational numbers of "a thousand transactions a second" when a real competitor would need to be several million transactions a second. There's simply no way you can do this with blockchain, and you'd instead need to use a non-blockchain paradigm like Haypenny.

Blockchain is a great platform for meme investments like Bitcoin or NFTs, but it's not suitable as a real, mainstream currency and never will be.

You're right about that. ETFs move Bitcoin away from its original purpose. Most people don't care about this because they only want market prices to go up over time. It's this "indifference" that will give banks and governments the ultimate victory over Bitcoin. Fortunately, not all hope is lost. The community can make a new fork with decentralization + censorship-resistance in mind. Or they can choose an existing fork like Bitcoin Cash and call it the "original Bitcoin". Things would've been worse if BTC was a closed source cryptocurrency.

I know development progress has taken longer than usual, but let me tell you that scaling the Blockchain is no easy task. Especially when developers have to make a balance between decentralization and convenience. Otherwise, BTC would risk turning into a centralized coin like XRP and the likes. I'd wait 10 more years to see what happens.

People aren't buying water bottles with Bitcoin in El Salvador or anyplace else. You don't need a government to buy up a bunch of it like they did in order to make Bitcoin mainstream, you need to make it perform comparable to credit card transactions at a comparable price, which Bitcoin is at least 1000x from being.

Everybody knows the name "Bitcoin" and it's a meme worth over one half trillion dollars. What more do you want?

Not just because it can buy water means it is mainstream because it is a need to be adopted by worldwide and not just in specific place , remember that there are countries  now that already having this existing like in El Salvador yet is this already mainstream? maybe in their country but worldwide is something we still waiting.

15 years is a eons for... technology. And Bitcoin has traveled further from it's goals of being a decentralized currency in that time, not closer.

The ETF in particular makes a mockery of the original goals of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a meme investment instrument, not a viable means of mainstream transactions. There's nothing wrong with that, but you might as well get used to calling it what it really is...

Not everything in this world needs to use Bitcoin but can Bitcoin not be used on some purchases in certain stores? Bitcoin will remain a source of strength for him even though thousands of people do not accept Bitcoin as a transaction tool like Fiat in general. I have never doubted Bitcoin as an alternative but it is still quite difficult to describe Bitcoin into a valid transaction tool like Fiat in general and currently there are several places that receive bitcoin as a means of payment like in El Salvador.

Mainstream is what you mean because if the relationship is carried out according to the concept of the Fiat currency, maybe at this time or the next few years it is still impossible to run. Bitcoin has an advantage in terms of investment and trade even though there is a risk in it when people are involved and perhaps other forces as parties who are able to maintain value.

New technologies take time to develop until they're mature enough for mainstream use. It's only been 15 years since BTC came to the world. I'd say there has been impressive results within such a short amount of time. We've seen some countries going as far as accepting BTC as legal tender. Not only that, but institutional investors are also considering pouring lots of money into crypto.

With spot ETFs approved in the US and abroad, Bitcoin is on its way of replacing Fiat currencies in the future. Or at least, eliminate the need for paper money. Just buy, "hodl", and forget about the rest. Who knows if early adopters (like us) will strike it rich in the future? Just my thoughts

I think it's too early to say that crypto will not become mainstream, of course cash is still king, but there are some countries that accepts bitcoin as a payment method and uses LN for that. But it seems that your argument though that bitcoin will be like replacing cash, it will not happen in my opinion. At least give bitcoin a decade to progress, we barely touches the surface as what it can do, and it is still in it's infancy and very young.

If we compare it to the internet, it's the same process, no one wanted to touch and adapt it. But when they realised it's potential, it suddenly exploded late 2000. Same thing with Google, and other technologies that were not adapted early, but now it is part of our lives.

Blockchain is just one technology area, and not even a very complicated one compared to say data routing. And there are thousands of technology areas like this driving the Internet.

How would "speculators" deter programmers from coming up with the code they need to write in order to make crypto viable as a means of mainstream value transfer? How is "greed" affecting what is a purely technical problem?

Developers absolutely have put their attention where it matters most for ten plus years and they have come up with nothing.

Maybe it's time to admit that crypto works great as a speculation instrument, but that's it.

I believe Blockchain development is much more complicated than the Internet itself. The reason it's taking a longer time than usual is because of the speculators. Money/greed has prevented crypto from achieving its full potential. If this keeps up, Blockchain tech won't be going anywhere.

I really hope developers put their attention on what matters most for the good of the industry. Maybe there's "light at the end of the tunnel"? Bitcoin has gone this far since its inception, so I'm confident it will deliver as promised in the long run. With low fees and reduced wait times, BTC might become the currency of the world. As long as it stays decentralized, there should be nothing to worry about.

Over time? I've been around the tech industry for over 30 years, and... 10 years is a LOT of time. I went from a 19.2k modem to a 10mb cable connection in about two years and never looked back.

And recall that the Internet wasn't a new technology trying to displace an existing technology that was a thousand times faster and cheaper--it was quite the opposite.

No, in my opinion crypto will always remain way to speculate on memes and nothing else. NOT that there's anything wrong with that!

The only problem is the fee. When fees are high you might not want to spend your Bitcoins to pay for a cup of coffee. 😁 If this is fixed I think people who want to use Bitcoin as payment will surely show their interest in having Bitcoin on their wallets. I personally use Bitcoin way back 2017 to buy mobile load with our local wallet. Survey says 51% of respondents stated that they own cryptocurrency here in my country. Though it was just for investment purposes but still it counts.

For now. We all know every new technology is bound to improve over time. The Internet had a similar situation in the early days where it couldn't scale to the world. It was not until various protocols/layers were developed (TCP/IP, HTTP, etc) to help solve the problem. I think the same will happen with Blockchain tech in the long run. It will scale via L2 networks (off-chain) and sidechains. This will allow crypto to reach a wider audience. All without sacrificing decentralization/censorship-resistance.

Until that happens, we'd have no choice but to leave our coins to a custodian (centralized exchange or wallet provider). That's only if we want to save money on fees. Hopefully, self-custody will be the norm once things go back to normal.

After 12 years and billions of dollars poured into crypto, I think it might be time to give up on the "technology will solve itself" idea. Blockchain has serious and arguably insurmountable hurdles to achieving the kind of scale that would make it viable for a real currency system.

Crypto works just fine as a store of value, but it's not suitable as a real currency in the way people use fiat currencies.

As for "decentralized", well, almost all holders of crypto, numerically at least, use some kind of institution e.g. CoinBase or the like who operate basically just like a bank, so I don't think centralized/decentralized really matters to anybody, at least in the real world.

Paper money (Fiat) is garbage. It will eventually lose value due to inflation. Not to mention, it's controlled and manipulated by a central bank. Bitcoin isn't as widely accepted as Fiat because of its limitations (price volatility, and limited transaction capacity). But it's bound to get better over time with subsequent network upgrades and institutional adoption.

With some countries adopting BTC as legal tender, it should only be a matter of time before the cryptocurrency takes the world by storm. I'm certain it will "beat" Fiat sometime in the future. As long as it stays decentralized, there should be nothing to worry about.

It's legally acceptable in the US to buy things with Bitcoin (e.g. trade it for whatever, including goods and services). Bitcoin's lack of adoption as a currency has nothing at all to do with government intervention, at least in the US.

First of all it cannot be possible yet to buy each and everything with the help of bitcoin because legally it is not acceptable over the world and also people are preferring paper money because they can easily buy each and everything with paper money. We can just wait for use of bitcoin for buying of useful materials but when it will happen is not known by anybody.

Now we can just invest in bitcoin and people will not be in desire to use bitcoin as a payment method because everyone wants their money to grow rapidly so when they exchange their bitcoin with another necessary materials then they will not receive profit during Bull run which they can get through investment only.

I believe it would take time before we see massive adoption when it comes to buying everyday essentials.
As it is not practical to use btc in your regular items such as coffee, or other daily essentials, the tendency is just to store your btc for investment as of the moment.

I am a high-scale systems developer with 30 years of experience, and my own opinion is that blockchain makes currency based on it impossible to scale in the way necessary for it to achieve mainstream acceptance as a means of exchange. "Thousands" of transactions per second will only get you a toy that a lot of your friends play with. At peak hours, the world-wide credit card system processes over a million transactions per second, and those transactions all extract a relatively large transaction fee. Anything that competed with that infrastructure would need to be a step function cheaper in order to break into their business.

After over a decade of working on this problem, there's no solution in sight for blockchain. I am always open-minded that perhaps some people smarter than me will see something I don't, and figure out "some" way of making blockchain-based currencies scale, but I find it pretty unlikely after this much time and THIS much money that surrounds crypto. If "they" wanted to make Bitcoin fast, "they" would have done so years ago. They can't.

And they don't need to, either. The fact is that crypto has a perfectly good role in human life without being a value transfer mechanism: human beings love to speculate. They have since time began. Crypto gives them a way to do that, and the technology works just fine for that purpose.

Bitcoin will go on forever, but it's never going to be used that way.

That's because most popular cryptocurrencies are congested. If developers increased their transaction capacity, fees would've stayed low for a very long time. I believe Blockchain tech already has the capability of processing thousands of transactions per second without issues. It's just that developers are wary of making crypto centralized by doing this. We'd have to decide whenever we want low fees by sacrificing decentralization, or all the other way around.

Bitcoin can be already be used for everyday payments through the Lightning Network. It's just that market volatility (unstable prices) "kills it". Not to mention, the off-chain scaling solution (Lightning Network) is still experimental. With due time, Bitcoin will be improved until it becomes a "force to reckon with". Ubtil then, we'd have to wait until the dust settles. Hopefully, Bitcoin will last a lifetime. Who knows what the future holds for the cryptocurrency?

Bitcoin is not used by every individual therefore if every is not ready to accept bitcoin then there will be no idea of using bitcoin for buying and selling of materials. Bitcoin was originated as a currency but now a days more than a currency it is used with the aim of earning and is considered as an investment tool.

If again people move their thoughts towards it usage as a currency then there is a possibility that people will buy water bottles with bitcoin. It will takes time but whenever bitcoin become globally accepted then there is a chance that without investment it can also be used for buying useful products. Now if one wants to buy things with bitcoin but seller are not ready to do that because he does not know about bitcoin then buyer alone cannot make sure the use of bitcoin.

You mentioned two things that are important to note here. It is true that the government has been an obstacle, but not everything the governments presented as issues that must be solved is untrue. We have had lots of wild west attitude in the markets and some of the measures they have taken were needed.

But apart from what the governments think about BTC, your second point is important: BTC is not handy. It's still a mysterious technology for many people and more education and development is needed. Those who have been around here for a decade or longer are more on the geek-side of things and didn't really need to be convinced back at the time as most had a genuine interest to learn about this technology by themselves. But not everyone is the same. The vast majority of people, especially in the western world, doesn't see the need for an alternative ecosystem as BTC represents.

The first thing they find out when they want to use it is that they can't use it because there are high transaction fees. We will see what can be done in the coming years to remedy that problem. BTC is still more the digital gold than it is the daily currency and my take is that it will stay like that as transaction fees have an important function in the ecosystem. If we can one day run an app for small scale transactions that works like a text messaging app based on lightning network, maybe that would be a breakthrough to a major push towards large scale adotpion.

The acceptance of bitcoin is a gradual process, the government has always been the major obstacle to achieving this mile stone, for now bitcoin is not handy and even know if their is such plan, for someone that own a bitcoin to some stuff with it, must times you have to exchange to the currency you want, as it stand bitcoin value never change and I believe that bitcoin is making progress in terms of it's adoption, people are already getting very conversant with btc, note bitcoin is targeted at the population that needs it, fiat needs Bitcoin to exist this is also applicable with bitcoin, this is my take.

You are right but I think it hasnt been discussed earlier on this thread because we all know
that altcoins will never come close to having the useage of Bitcoin.

Personally I never believed Bitcoin would become a globally accepted mainstream currency.
It is now going down the road of being a very sought after assett according to institutional investors.

For this argument we could also say I cannot go to my local shop and but a bottle of water with
my rough cut sapphire!

The problem with that requirement is that there's bound to be a resistance coming from the banks and the currency of a country, it's not easy to replace the legal tender of a country. Sure, El Salvador did it but look at their population and the size of their country and their influence in the global market, it's not going to be the same situation if it's China, USA or Russia that will do this because they're 3 of the most influential countries in the world and in the global market and them changing their legal tender USD, RMB, RUB to BTC is going to shake the foundation of each country's financial institution to the core not including the effects on the global market. This sure is the dream for all of us who use bitcoin but we have to be realistic about all this, not everyone's going to be on our side when it comes to this one.

Bitcoin ETFs in the US show its growing importance and ability to change investing landscapes worldwide. Bitcoin's path goes beyond institutional investment, I think. Bitcoin has the potential to handle large-scale financial processes and routine transactions. High main network transaction fees are substantial but not prohibitive. Bitcoin may be suitable for smaller transactions because to innovations like the Lightning Network. Changing these flaws will allow Bitcoin to serve more financial demands. I see Bitcoin as a financial solution, not merely an institutional investment tool. Adaptability and evolution will define its global financial success and influence.

Could you explain to me where you can buy a bottle of water with gold? I assume you can't and that's because in most places in the world you can't buy water bottles with gold, but gold is still mainstream.

Maybe some numbers help to support that: the totel market capitalization of gold is sitting at just under 14 trillion USD. The total value of USD in circulation in the United States is just under 2.3 trillion. Now you could argue that gold was referring to the global market cap while the latter is USD in the US only, fair enough. But I am sure you get my point here. Whether something becomes mainstream or not does not solely depend on whether you can buy a bottle of water with it or not.

Different asset classes have different advantages and being able to buy a bottle of water is an advantage that USD has over BTC. But maybe you should instead have a look at all the threads where the advantages of BTC over USD are listed. The list is long! The problem at hand here is your definition of the word "mainstream".

What would that change? Paying for something with crypto would still be hundreds of times slower and more expensive and cumbersome than doing so with a credit card. Some government forcing it down people's throats will just create a backlash.

 

Maybe currently, there are still general needs that Bitcoin cannot fulfill. It is still in the normal stage because governments still have not fully accepted Bitcoin. Bitcoin will become mainstream once all countries agree to adopt crypto and from there will be changes.

In terms of transactions, the costs that must be paid to send Bitcoin are very high, so many people are concerned. Everything can be overcome slowly so that the mainstream can be achieved later. But seeing what has happened now, where large companies have invested in Bitcoin, shows interest in blockchain technology. It also helps the adoption process and while it may not yet reach its target of becoming mainstream, it can be achieved.

Bitcoin has become the attention of people who want to take advantage of Bitcoin. They have started investing a long time ago and have felt the benefits. So this also helps the adoption process and will develop even better.

In several countries you can already purchase stuff using bitcoins, I don't see the problem. Especially because at this point it would be too hard to change things, at least in first world countries. Just like some places only accept credit cards and others only accept cash, you can decide to accept bitcoin as well and as long as you report your sales I don't see the problem.

Network congestion isn't a new problem. BRC-20 might have made everything worse, a lot worse, but everything wasn't really fine before it arrived. Scalability isn't a problem only revealed by the advent of Bitcoin NFTs. It has already been dealt with in past. Hundreds of thousands of unconfirmed transactions isn't a reality that's exclusively brought about by BRC-20. The network has experienced it in the past.

Lightning network is an alternative. Liquid network is an alternative. They may be good alternatives. But my point is it's somewhat odd that the main purpose of Bitcoin will have to be realized in different networks because the main network is busy with monkeys and punks and whatnot. How about an interchange?

Before BRC20 appeared there was no network congestion as it is today, everything was fine.
But after the inscription strikes everything becomes very heavy and more transactions have to be confirmed.
Usually I only spend around $1 with a fairly fast confirmation but now $1 does not represent anything for the transaction, it needs 10x more and a very long confirmation.

When the alternative path takes a Layer 2 Lightning network, why not, if that is a better alternative.
Is it possible that BRC20 will be phased out or use their own network, as this is a new problem on the Bitcoin network?

To answer the question as to when that will happen, first ask why that would happen. In short, what would be the advantage to the average consumer to purchasing a bottle of water using a static Bitcoin wallet versus using physical cash or a credit card connected to a financial institution?

Right now, all the average consumer would notice about the Bitcoin method is that it's a lot slower and a lot more expensive and most vendors don't accept this form of payment besides.

Credit card transactions almost always complete in less than a second, and the worldwide infrastructure for credit cards handles over one million transactions per second during peak periods and billions of transactions per day. To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong), there's no blockchain-based infrastructure that's even remotely ready for that even in theory.

Of course crypto has tapped into a half trillion dollar business in speculative investing, and it handles that consumer need just fine. Maybe nobody has solved this problem because there's no need to.

Eventually... cryptocurrency will become mainstream...  The banks and government are starting to look after the benefits of cryptocurrency.  They have been designing regulations and law where cryptocurrency can be used or integrated in finance industry without breaking their core point about finance, centralization.  

Although Bitcoin is decentralized in nature, the government wanted to have control not of its main network but rather of the companies that utilized Bitcoin to gain profit. I believe eventually, the government will create such regulations and cryptocurrency will then become a mainstream.  

Whether we like it or not, cryptocurrency needs government support in order to become mainstream.  Aside from that, I believe there are lots of works and development that need to be done on the Bitcoin system for it to be ready for mainstream adoption.

You're right! As long as people worldwide can't easily compare using Bitcoin with regular money for simple purchases, regular money (FIAT) will stay more popular than Bitcoin. But that's not a big deal here. Bitcoin isn't widely used by most people yet because the necessary systems and support aren't ready. Some countries are also hesitant to fully accept Bitcoin, which adds to the challenge.

If Bitcoin really becomes a normal thing for everyone, I doubt it'll be as easy as we hope. Its limited supply makes it more suitable for speculation, like a valuable asset. Many people here focus more on the price of Bitcoin than on how to buy everyday things like water with Bitcoin or set up a cash register that works with Bitcoin payments.

In my opinion, this is a big challenge, so I don't think everyone in the world needs to start using Bitcoin. Maybe making it an option for 15% to 30% of people worldwide is already a significant step.

There is a problem with your context, bitcoin can be used universally, on this planet it is humans, but with the issue of such amazing distances I think that if someone makes a send from Earth to Alpha Centauri C, it takes a couple of light years , so it is best that there is a local planetary P2P.

CCs are not used by all people, but a CC with funds could buy a Yacht, there are others users to buy everyday things and there are retail consumers, so how many people are there for a CC that can buy a Yacht, few but the option exists In that idea, whoever pays or spends $1 with CC, mmhh!, well it happens. The same is with bitcoin, don't put walls where there are doors(TXs).

I know high on-chain fees are a problem for mainstream adoption, especially when we're talking about onboarding new users into Bitcoin. But there's nothing we can do about it if we want to keep Bitcoin "free" (as in liberty). Censoring Ordinals transactions would steer Bitcoin away from its original principles. Either people switch to the Lightning Network or use an alternative cryptocurrency with lower fees. I'm sure developers will increase the block size to alleviate the issue. If they don't, we'd have no other choice but to wait until the hype is over.

We'll see less people having self-custody of their coins because of the rising on-chain fees. Lower fees = increased mainstream adoption. Let's not forget market volatility prevents BTC from being used as digital cash. Who knows how long will it take before things go back to normal?

We dont have to force everyone in the world to use bitcoin because in the end the global adoption that many people are always talking about is just another form of desire that is desired but if in the end it cant be like that then for now bitcoin has been accepted and is still a commodity that can be used as an investment asset it is very good.
Indeed in the end there is hope that bitcoin can be accepted by more people and as a recommended payment option but we also dont have to always force the will so that something like this can be done in all countries in the world because things like this of course we know that it is very difficult to do and for now im still very satisfied with the performance and progress in bitcoin so that is enough for me personally.

adoption of crypto is in continuous motion so there's no hurry for it to be mainstream. as long as the market exists and people are supporting it, the chance to go mainstream is always here. but saying, it will never become mainstream is an understatement.

why i think it is slowly going mainstream?
 - big companies/stakeholders are buying their own stash of crypto
 - top personalities like elon musk is getting involved
 - banks are trying to integrate CBDCs in their financial system
 - approval of ETF
 - online/offline merchants are adding crypto payment
 - increasing number of crypto users and so as crypto investors
 - financial platforms are considering their stake on crypto
 - countries are making bitcoin as legal tender such as El Salvador and Central Africal Republic

If we do speak about into its utility then we can really say that it isnt really that something that has been that totally used but rather crypto is really that been treated up as an investment on which people would really be that holding. They wont really be that trying out to make use of those coins or trying out to make transactions considering that value could really be able to rise up in the future or does simply that do talks about having potential.
We do know that when it comes its real essence of its existence then it would really be taking about transfers or as a currency but people wont really be tending out on trying to touch it out if we do speak about
on making use of it into that particular method. Adoption and recognition is really just that on the move on which it wouldnt really be something that can be stopped if we do talk about adoption.
Whether it would become mainstream or not then there's no way that we could be able to tell on what would really be the future that lies ahead.

No one knows on what would be the things that will happen in the future whether bitcoin or cryptocurrencies would really be taking up some place or would both co-exist with fiat in the longer runs
or wouldnt really be that something relevant as people would just simply sticking into those traditional things?

The direction you are looking and projecting bitcoin is entirely different from where it's even headed. Bitcoin is not trying micro finance but it's trying to compete with the micro finance like the institutional investors and that's why you will notice that Blackrock and other prominent traditional financial system are trying to get spot bitcoin approved in the US, we have some spot ETF approved in other places but having approved and green light in the US will enable other countries to do the same without thinking further or the consequences because they know US is good in making good choice, now imagine if all the countries have bitcoin ETF for investors, that's more than the adoption you are comparing.

On small scale business and transaction, may be Lightning Network might fix that later and then make people used bitcoin but bitcoin itself on the main network is going to be challenging especially the fees we are facing now is already discouraging, who is going to spend $10 for a fee for an item they can get less than a $1, it wouldn't work but I just want you to know that bitcoin is bigger than where you are looking at currently.

Hmm, So Op you are having concerns about the global mass adoption of Bitcoin, well that is not possible at least shortly, also with the current network fees, no one would love to buy the Water bottler after paying the skyrocketed network fees. Lightning Network has some exceptions for that.

TBH the adoption Op you are talking about at least I'm not even expecting the next Halving era, it will be after a few more havlings, and at that time maybe there can be an efficient solution for Bitcoin's network scalability issues. But Bitcoin is still the mainstream and for the altcoin's shit i cant say anything.

Just like any other currency right now still they are recognized as mainstream money like dollars and other top fiats that people use right now. Bitcoin will be like that in the future and people will gonna use it as one of the money they can freely convert to fiat or vice versa whenever they want. I hope I will see that kind of future throughout the world because we cannot just rely on banks in terms of securing our money, they need to let us do whatever we want with it especially when it comes to saving it ourselves in order to use it freely and bring it with us without anyone knowing about it.

Well, I wouldn't say that things need to come to purchasing water with crypto because the mainstream adoption will be much greater if banks get approval to be a Bitcoin custodian, fair value accounting, and if the spot Bitcoin ETF is approved. This is the most valuable thing Bitcoin will ever get because BlackRock revised their ETF application, so big banks such as JPMorgan, and Goldman Sachs may now accumulate Bitcoin (if the ETF is approved) and have Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

If we tap into "buying water with crypto," it's already in place in third countries such as more than half of Africa, Latin America, etc. They are already using the Lightning Network (LN) to purchase goods and services. Even a chicken from the neighbor can be bought with LN. That is why you also see growing crypto payments in Africa, and a lot of countries there don't have a good internet connection like we do here in the EU or the USA, etc. So, this is not even a problem because nowadays applications can be used for crypto payments without an internet connection.

I like to read the discussion about Bitcoin adoption in the world as it is always a hot topic and different thoughts start to circulate. However, I have seen most of the time discussion ends at the point where Bitcoin is most likely not gonna be a mainstream currency. I am also one of the voters who think Bitcoin won't be a mainstream currency at all. I am one of the people who would want it to be one but it just can't. The limit of its supply makes it a limited asset with high demand in the future. This can lead to heavy congestion in the near future, if more and more adoption comes then it will escalate the burden on the blockchain network in no time. Imagine the situation right now, it's worse. The fees are high, the confirmation times are off the roof, so this doesn't really qualify as the perfect currency exchange.  However, it does qualify for the best stable asset for long-term holding.

The founder was saying Bitcoin is like a commodity, Bitcoin isn't must to be used as a currency.

After all every person has it's own choice to use Bitcoin for what purpose, if you want to use it to buy water that worth $1 and spend $30 for the fees, then I can't stop you for doing that.

But I use it as an investment since Bitcoin is very volatile.

Not really, we do not need bitcoin to replace fiat, right now the adoption of bitcoin is low because its use as a currency is not really appreciated by the people, after all if they have fiat they do not see the need to use bitcoin, so what is keeping bitcoin strong at the moment is mostly its value as an investment, however as soon as the major fiat currencies around the world encounter some issues and people begin to lose money that is when major adoption could happen, and we are already seeing examples of this, because in the countries in which the fiat currency of the local government has experimented major inflation the use of other currencies, including bitcoin, has gone up.

There are some major barriers to mainstream adoption of Bitcoin and other currencies. Only by overcoming these hurdles can Bitcoin and other currencies achieve mainstream adoption. Challenges such as regulatory clarity, scalability issues and widespread adoption may be encountered. Moreover, scalability concerns related to how to control these digital assets across the globe and their transaction speed and energy efficiency pose barriers to widespread use. However, if this digital asset is to become an integral part of the global economic landscape, it will not be possible without widespread acceptance.

There are so may barrier that is limiting the adoption and use if Bitcoin. One if it is that most people see the coin as an asset rather than a currency. People prefer to use hodl it than to use it as a currency. Its profitability will continue to make people see it as an investment rather than a currency.  Politics has also affected the adoption of the currency. Most countries have made unfavourable policies that have discouraged people from using Bitcoin for daily transactions. Some politicians see it as a threat to centralization so they want to do everything possible to discourage people from using it. In developing nations poverty, lack of infrastructure like internet connections and illiteracy will always limit Bitcoin from becoming a mainstream currency. Bitcoin adoption as a currency will happen gradually and it will become faster when the currency becomes less volatile.

Using it for purchases is the final phase of hard money adoption. First Bitcoin was a tech experiment, then it was a risky get rich quick scheme, then it was the best investment on the planet, now its between its investment phase and savings phase. Once people have been saving in Bitcoin for a good number of years then they'll feel comfortable spending it. Right now its still too early in adoption to spend for most people because why spend something that is gonna go up 5x in the next couple years.

2030s and 2040s is when we'll see the transition to starting to actually spend it. So in the meantime we have time for those point of sales to get built on and adopted. By that time Bitcoin volatility will be much lower, hundreds of millions of people will have saved/grown a lot of money with Bitcoin, and they'll be ready to start spending. Afterall the whole point of savings it to eventually spend it.

Bitcoin has grown into something else, or at least it has more than one function now. It isn't anymore just the internet money that it used to be mainly about. I don't know whether the thing that paves way for monkeys and punks and rocks and shrooms is essentially a bug or a vulnerability or a feature, but it seems obvious to me that Bitcoin is primarily for monetary or financial purposes. Now, it's kind of funny and sad how the main purpose has to take the alternate route, the layer 2, because the main network is busy with inscriptions.

It would not feel like a waste if spending bitcoin on mundane things was normalized and everyone else was doing it

Of course now, with high transaction fees, you would not think to buy a product as simple as a bottle of water with bitcoin but if bitcoin were to be developed for the better and reduce the high fees and have its value be stable then it would act more as a currency and less as an investment

Bitcoin is still quite risky with high price volatility, if it is used as the world's main cash flow it will not be good.
Bitcoin is still the most sought-after digital currency and is becoming optional for payments other than Fiat in countries that fully accept Bitcoin.

Bitcoin also has a scarcity and Bitcoin supply is only 21 Million BTC available,
but not all of them are in circulation and some are buried in abandoned wallets.

But of course it is different from gold because Bitcoin does not have a physical form.
Gold as a Safe Haven Asset is quite popular, but Bitcoin cannot be used as a Safe Haven Asset because of its rapid fluctuations.

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Yes, and in the modern era like today, Online transactions are needed, Bitcoin is a good option for Online payments and ecommerce.
But Bitcoin's current problem is scalability, which has recently been paralyzed by an increasingly dense buildup of transactions and this has brought traffic jams with fees rising dramatically.
The Lightning network could be a solution, but there are those who oppose it and development is also lacking.

The reality is that, why should people be buying water bottles with Bitcoin? If we consider the practicality of it all, why should we choose Bitcoin as payment for our cup of coffee? Sometimes I wonder whether those videos of children buying a piece of banana or a glass of lemonade using Bitcoin is the best way to promote Bitcoin. Cold cash would be best. Perhaps Bitcoin's whitepaper is where the point is, that it is an electronic cash, that it is for online payments, for eCommerce purposes.

I agree with all of that. I am sure that the current we face in the future will not be one hundred percent the same as what we saw before, even though the analysis parameters always say that this will happen again, the fact is that every year or season will change and how society accepts crypto also has an impact on all of this. . What is most likely is that we have to be clever at dealing with the problems that society offers us as crypto experts, how do we solve those problems, then crypto will be easily adopted by society, easily known and used by them. This will create a positive new trend that has never happened before.

I don't think bitcoin needs to become the mainstream of world money because bitcoin is still not effective for that. In addition, even though Bitcoin is not the world's main currency, this will not affect its value. We can see that gold used to be gold as currency, now it no longer exists but the value of gold is not affected even though it is no longer currency, gold always has its own value because of the trust and rarity of gold. This applies to bitcoins

Well, I couldn't agree more that on the early days of Bitcoin it is highly unlikely that we see it on the mainstream. But within just a few years of this continuous market and adoption, we're seeing that it is the institutions that are doing their own thing for doing mass adoption of Bitcoin. While there will be debates that these institutions aren't for the tech and decentralization because they are obvious into centralization. What do we ask for? This type of adoption that comes from the mainstream and financial institutions themselves that are speaking and defending Bitcoin.

Well, that's true but I don't see it as a problem. I would never want to simply spend my BTC, it's an investment for me. And buying water or food with would feel like a waste of it.

Your concern regarding Bitcoin's popular adoption is its everyday utility. History: conventional currencies evolved over ages. Bitcoin, meanwhile, is young. Not simply buying water bottles, but establishing an infrastructure that integrates digital currencies into daily life. This is gradual and complicated.

Your political point is important. Current financial systems and governments may oppose decentralized currencies. Remember that innovation generally confronts resistance before adoption. The internet, once innovative, is now essential. Blockchain technology might disrupt finance and other industries, disrupting power systems.

The potential alien civilization parallel is crazy. It emphasizes that social and legislative constraints limit us, not technology. Blockchain technology can be universally adopted with a perception and regulatory shift. Bitcoin's general acceptance is a marathon that requires patience, ingenuity, and social change.

We need to wait for a longer, 20 to 30 years from the date of 2010, until we decide whether Bitcoin is here to continue or whether it will end. The technology is still new and people are still ignorant of the meaning of Bitcoin and its importance as a financial instrument alongside all of the available financial instruments, and it may be the backbone of international trade. Bitcoin is now in the growth phase. If it succeeds in having a large number of users, acceptable fees, speed in transactions and continuous development, and it continues until 2030, then we can judge the future.

Well, Bitcoin is an asset, but not just an asset, it's an asset that has reached the level of acceptability and high liquidity that no other asset has ever achieved in a very short space. We can say the same of Ethereum at the same time, and a few lots of them. But I would like to limit the scope of crypto right now to Bitcoin and Ethereum. The two are now in the mainstream of the financial market which is the main thing when it comes to their asset class. They are not the direct country's money so you don't expect them to be spent on the street. Bitcoin itself has done the undone, now you can still buy some things directly with Bitcoin, after all, you don't hold paper BTC, you make your electronic transactions online, and you can't expect everyone to buy biscuits or sweets on the street with it.

Do you know how many people transact with Bitcoin daily despite the transaction fee challenges? This is a coin that has done enough in a very short time and I do not think anyone should want more from it. Come to think of it, Gold has lived for centuries and is even used as a medium of transactions by some people, has it gotten to the level of financial transactions of Bitcoin online? Or has it been spent on the street yet? These are different asset classes that you can easily change to your fiats and spend it anyhow you want, not otherwise as you thought. It has killed many fiat transactions online in case you don't know, everything must not be physical spending. For Bitcoin to have even done more than that, it deserves kudos already.

How much groceries did your friend  buy that he opted to pay with bitcoin in this era of high transaction fees?. Did he buy and  paid double because I believe the transaction fees of that purchase he made may even be above the purchase or seemingly equal to it,
Secondly, how long did he have to wait before his transactions was confirmed before leaving the grocery store or was he allowed to go and the store owner notify him upon receipt?.
Thirdly, is there a way around that time  and fees factors of  the transactions that I don't know about that he's fully aware of, please  @Manny@11111 I'm really curious and  will appreciate your kind responses. Thanks

There are two things wrong here and people only responded to one of them so far.
The obvious one that when we talk about adoption we aren't talking about a situation when you can buy anything anywhere at any time. That would be more like replacing fiat which is not the goal.

The other one that nobody addressed is that altcoins will never become mainstream or even be used as long as their purpose is to be pumped and dumped. For years the altcoin creators only made new projects to make money themselves, hence the premines and ICOs and PoS and so on. Until that changes, we won't see "other cryptos" ever be used for anything meaningful.

They actually were discussing this like 5 years ago. But instead of water it was coffee. They want bitcoin to be used to be able to buy a cup of coffee. And you basically can’t do that with the main net. Even if fees were low, you would still have to wait 10-30 mins for confirmation.

That’s why all these layer 2 solutions are happening. Basically keep a small amount of bitcoin in a l2 and you can spend all you want with little or no fees. When you are done, just bridge back.

Not everything valuable can buy water bottles. For example, you can't buy a water bottle with the Internet as a technology, only through the Internet on specific platforms. You can't buy a water bottle with a smartphone, either, even though it's an invention that reached global adoption fast.
Bitcoin is an alternative to fiat, another way to do money, so to speak. Bitcoin is also a valuable asset.
I don't think that the main issue is the resistance of major actors like governments, banks, or lobbyists. Bitcoin is volatile, Bitcoin doesn't scale well, Bitcoin transactions are irreversible, there's nobody to blame for Bitcoin going up or down, and Bitcoin transaction fees regularly rise too high. There are enough reasons for people to prefer fiat and banks over Bitcoin, simply because there's someone in charge, there are some ways of controlling the value, fiat tends to be stable (generally more stable than Bitcoin), etc. Not everyone wants decentralization, financial freedom and responsibility that comes with it.

If you use LN, then you don't have to worry about the fees, but the fact that so many people complain about the fees is really strange, considering that there is more than one alternative.


You really turned things upside down, because it is not possible to pour Bitcoin into a bottle, but in a situation where you are terribly thirsty and you only have Bitcoin, wouldn't you buy a bottle of cold water and pay even $10 for the fee? I would really like to see those hardened holders who would rather die than spend Bitcoin.

As for the water bottle example, you are bothered by details, most variables of btc aren't linked to deep physical limitations. The current btc is not suitable for such a transaction ofc, but that's irrelevant to the possibilities of blockchain.

Really, be it a water bottle or a Playstation 5, or a Ford F-Series, the physical goods market evade cryptos and that's the only challenge for it's growth. Humans need fuel to live, and they but it with fiat. And the reason is political otherwise you would have a plethoric amount of entrepreneurs willing to accept blockchain powered money for their products. Elon Musk tried it for a time with tesla, there's little doubt why he dropped the opportunity.

West Africans and Hindus getting access to internet won't make a huge difference also c'mon.

Restraining blockchain powered money to a digital stuff used to buy nfts, steroids and cocaine online or evade tax but no physical good such as water bottle is exactly buying into the establishment narrative about cryptos.

You know bitcoin is for people who believe in it and will work it out so they can have it in the future. Although everyone can do it, not everyone has the dedication and passion to work out. So the tendency is always that, in the end, most of those who enter this industry fail.

So, stand up for what you believe in Bitcoin. But if you use Bitcoin just for the bottle of water, it seems like you are just wasting every bit of bitcoin because of the value it can provide in the future.

OP you should also understand that bitcoin and crypto are still very new from their launch until now, requiring a widespread acceptance is not an immediate story but takes time.

You can imagine the problem of the Internet, after many years, it took us to have the current popular network system that you see, but the truth is that not everyone has the Internet and even Some countries still don't have electricity to use it. So, looking openly, with bitcoin and crypto since its launch until now, its scale is much larger, and I think at a speed that is really fast, it won't take too long so that you can witness some regions accepting crypto as a popular means of life, and there is no need to impose too much on how to use bitcoin because in the end, the core thing is still bitcoin.

I feel like that is not going to be as much of a big trouble as people think it will be. You have dollars in your bank account, you wire that to some exchange, nearly no fee at all, maybe a very tiny one, then you buy bitcoin with the dollar you have in the exchange, only the trading fee and no transaction fee at all, then when it goes up, you sell that bitcoin back to dollar, again just trading fee, nothing big, and then you use that dollar to wire back to your bank account, and you have spent nearly nothing, maybe just 50 bucks at the very large case, and that is a ton of money, usually something less than a few dollars.

That's why you should not consider transaction fee as a huge deal for a newbie, because if the newbie is doing a lot more than this, the yare doing something wrong. I believe that newbies who spend hundreds of dollars on each transaction and moving money around like crazy just to make more money, they will have bigger issues for sure.

I see your point and I agree only to an extent. Bitcoin adoption would be halter with the current transaction fee. Nobody would like to make a transaction where the fee is almost half the actual amount you want to transfer.

I believe Bitcoin, or crypto as a whole cannot be "mainstream" as you say because everybody has not gone digital. There are places where you still need cash to make a purchase. They don't even accept bank or card transfers, so how will they accept Bitcoin?
Then again, how do people accept Bitcoin when it is currently so frustrating to use?

Bitcoin network is overwhelmed by ordinals, to use it as means of money in real world is far get fetched, in my opinion. Get adopted on Internet first, these days people are transacting with lower fee cryptos and forsaking Bitcoin due to it's high fees.

Even during normal times, you pay dollar a fee, and transaction will take few minutes to confirm, do you really expect to purchase water bottle like this?

Other cryptos are far from adoption too, little load and they get congested.

Why should I use crypto (fees + uncertain confirmation times) when I can pay with cash or card, for free & instant.

That's funny, I'm shocked to see this why would anyone spend Bitcoin to buy water bottles? Bitcoin was meant to be a p2p payment system and it still is but these days people find it more usable as an asset rather than a p2p payment system.

You can't really buy a bottle of Bitcoin at the current network condition because the fee would cost you more than two bottles of water. It's possible to buy bottle of Bitcoin with water in normal network conditions but I'm pretty sure that no one is going to use Bitcoin to buy a bottle of water.

Bitcoin has triumphed in the last few years precisely because of the essential properties it has with respect to medium or high amounts, and it doesn't matter if it becomes mainstream because the people who can store and send those amounts are reduced. It is not even remotely the same people who can buy bottles of water.

Using the same criteria for Bitcoin as for altcoins makes no sense, when it is essentially different.

What is even 'mainstream' to people nowadays?  Is it Bitcoin becoming a national Currency?  Gold can not be used to purchase bottles of water.  I mean technically you can, but extremely pricey and inconveniently.  Yet Gold is mainstream.

Bitcoin will soon erupt past a 1 TRILLION Market Cap.  Is this not mainstream enough to people?  We will likely never see the day Bitcoin becomes the Currency El Salvador is portraying it to be and we hoped for.  But it is already very mainstream.  Still has a TON of room for growth but we are there already.

Difference is with the way we are using it. If it is with mode of payment, then there's only a small percentage where it is being used as it is. Bitcoin and other cryptos are widely used as an asset or an investment and there's nothing really bad about it. With its wide acceptance, there'll be more years to come before its total acceptance. It is now known by many but there is a mix of impression towards this technology and we should wait further for improvements on such viewpoint. Global currency on the other hand is something.

Five percent is too small, this means you will hardly finds a place or an organization that accepts bitcoin before you can be able to spend it, bitcoin is already getting to that stage, very gradually we are moving to be the mainstream of making payments, we many still have to use them both for now till that time arrived whereby we don't need any other means of making payments than bitcoin and exchange of this same digital currency into fiat may not be needed as before since it would have turned the mainstream global currency.

The bitcoin system is indeed in conflict with the system that runs in banking. Therefore, bitcoin will always be overshadowed by bankers who want bitcoin and its adoption will not go well. However, dropping bitcoin is certainly not easy, because bitcoin is very transparent and has a system that can make people interested^{(decentralized)}.

And currently bitcoin or crypto will definitely be a little difficult if you want to become mainstream in financial terms. Because the banking sector is still standing strong at this time. So it will definitely take longer for bitcoin or crypto to become mainstream.

You do have a point and that's on the transaction fee side, it's not going to be easy for newbies to accumulate Bitcoin, but we can't deny the massive interest on Bitcoin right now compare to years back, I believe that Bitcoin will see more massive adoption rate soon and nothing can stop it.

Bitcoin is not a good option for making small payments but it's a good store of value and it's far valuable than anything I know, this point is enough for the whole world to want to have everything to do with Bitcoin, don't sleep on it, as one day you can look back and see that Bitcoin is worth half a million already and you will start beating yourself up.

Do you live in the belief that this is not possible at this moment? Of course, this is not possible in every store that exists in the world, but it is possible in many countries where Bitcoin is a completely legitimate means of payment. If you go to El Salvador, you will probably be able to buy a bottle of water or whatever you want and pay with BTC (LN) - and if you go to the island of Boracay, you will certainly be able to buy water and pay with BTC.

Here, for example, I can now go to a local site and buy water or any other drink and pay with Bitcoin or some altcoin - or I can buy anything else that is there.

I don't know what kind of mainstream ideas you fantasize about, but Bitcoin will probably never be the choice of the majority but of the minority that wants an alternative. In addition, the idea of Bitcoin as a currency is disappearing more and more, especially when we take into account the on-chain fees that most people do not want to pay.

Bitcoin acceptability this year was greater than 2022 and I can assure you it will be better in 2024.
Adoption of Bitcoin is fast growing as a friend even bought groceries with it in Netherlands and got balance back in Bitcoin, this is just a matter of time though it has a long way to go in competing with Fiat

Not all of the world's population needs to use Bitcoin, and if 5% of the population and 5% of companies use Bitcoin, I think we will reach an acceptable level of prediction such that there is no need to convert Bitcoin into dollars and the possibility of using it to make purchases for most needs due to the availability of the level of acceptance.

Bitcoins and other cryptos will never become mainstream before... people can buy water bottles with them.

Quite simple, many expecting an explosive entropy of the bitcoin adoption / price but truth is the average folk most common needs and use of money aren't met by bitcoin, this fact goes against the very foundation of any successfully implemented mean of money anytime across recorded history. It really is a political problem at it's core, the deep states run by bankers won't let a viable alternative co-exist in the streets. I have no doubt that with truly liberal and free alien civilizations, the blockchain technology would have attained (for all purposes) universal adoption in a shorter time that the cryptos have been around by now here.

What are your takes about that sentiment?