Bitcoin's price will rise even if its value doesn't

gkv9

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Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

It always rose if you compare the %s in the graphs of previous years, the thing is the % will decline with the time as if it becomes $100k which is not going to happen this decade (or may happen too), then I think $1000k would not be an easy target at all to be achieved which is 1000% and 10x of that amount, as the amount gets bigger and bigger in fiat, the %s will get lowered down, that's the point everyone should get...

Scorpian

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on December 27, 2015, 09:07:21 AM

Yep... Dollar is falling. Every day.

avw1982

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Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

Hereafter bitcoin will not fall that much When compare to previous years. After halving bitcoin price will go to some unimaginable price which is equalent USD. Now price falling because All the people are busy in parities and enjoyment due to holidays. After holidays It will start increase gradually.

Blind Legs Parker

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jayce, this doesn't have anything to do with fiat. People are just measuring foreign currencies based on others that they are more familiar with. Nowadays, this metric is usually the fiat money from their own country but it can be others. I'm from the EU but I also measure BTC with USD and CNY. The loaf of bread is also a metric that people could use for BTC (or Mc Donalds and other stuff, like it was proposed in another thread last month).

You need a comparison. This has nothing to do with fiat.
One thing is certain: people will keep measuring other stuff with a metric that they know, even after the death of fiat (if it happens one day). Who knows. Bitcoin might become a metric in the future. After all that's what it was designed for.

Also, if you measure BTC in more than one sort of fiat, you lessen the chances that it will appear to be losing ground in your eyes. For the moment USD is getting stronger but CNY is falling (and I think EUR is stable, because it's losing to USD but slightly gaining against CNY). If you compare BTC to CNY, BTC appears to be getting stronger (recent dump not included Grin

).

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Quote from: Amph on December 27, 2015, 11:35:48 AM

Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

well if bitcoin is tied to usd it will drop too, if it will be tied to the strongest new coin that will be inevitable dorp like any other fiat bitcoin will drop too

the only way would be if bitcoin is not measured in fiat anymore

Thats the reason satoshi create bitcoin, to be a new currency that is not like the others but a decentralized currency. We both know this is not going to happen because as long as there is fiat then people will keep on measuring it with another currency just like we are doing right now

PakistanHockeyfan

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Well, that is indeed a possibility but only if it shows a significant increase in exuding its extreme potential.

XinXan

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Quote from: n2004al on December 27, 2015, 09:53:31 AM

There are different and various conception of value. Depending from the point of view taken in consideration or taken as referring point. As for me, the price is the real and the right value of a currency. So have no meaning to tell for a currency that the price of it will rise and the value not. Are the same thing. The same even with every other product (independently of its form or substance). Its value is the price with which is sold or the price which someone is ready to give to have it. This mean that the value is not a fixed quality. Because depends from to many factors. So even with the value of bitcoin. Move in time (even within seconds) according to the price in market compared to all the other currencies.

Not really, 10 dollars today are not the same as 10 dollars a hundred years ago, their ''price'' is the same but their value is different, what you used to buy with 1$ now you buy it with 5$ (That's an example)

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Quote from: saturn643 on December 27, 2015, 12:13:39 PM

Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 12:09:18 PM

Quote from: Amph on December 27, 2015, 11:35:48 AM

Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

well if bitcoin is tied to usd it will drop too, if it will be tied to the strongest new coin that will be inevitable dorp like any other fiat bitcoin will drop too

the only way would be if bitcoin is not measured in fiat anymore

But we should compare something on how much value does something have and we compare it in fiat, so we can't bypass fiat.

Bitcoin shouldn't be tied to any other coin or fiat. It should be like pretty much every other currency out there, it isn't intrinsically tied to any other currency. The value of Bitcoin should be how fiat currencies are valued, how much stuff you can buy with one unit.

Bitcoin, on its roots, incorporates many aspects of standard currencys. The problem is that we dont have a well stablished market to trade goods with bitcoins. So, generally, we trade it like a commodity, thus tying it to fiat value.

But even if we had an established market, bitcoin exchange to fiat would still happen. I agree with Blind Legs Parker. Its all a matter of relativity.

mtnsaa

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If Bitcoin is actually used, it will always increase in price from what it is now. However Bitcoin is not actually needed in the world right now, that's why it's not adopted by the mainstream (plus it's very technical and complicated for the average person). If Bitcoin can't create actual demand it will be at risk of disappear in the upcoming years. It can't stay a commodity with no real value or use for decades. Gold is different, it's used in tech devices and it will always hold its value as a trading good.

Blind Legs Parker

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It isn't so much bitcoin's price rising than fiat's value decreasing, actually.
Thus, the "rise in price", that LiteCoinGuy is talking about indeed depends on how each country's fiat money decreases in value and how fast it does (it's taken for granted that they all decrease in value in time because of inflation due to constant money printing).
Sometimes though, if you look at it over a shorter time span, the opposite might seem true: for instance, if bitcoin had been there in year 2000 and didn't move at all between 2000 and 2009, it would have appeared to lose ground against the euro.
Thus the importance of looking at it over longer time spans, like a century.

It's all a matter of perspective.

This thread is in fact about relativity.

saturn643

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Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 12:09:18 PM

Quote from: Amph on December 27, 2015, 11:35:48 AM

Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

well if bitcoin is tied to usd it will drop too, if it will be tied to the strongest new coin that will be inevitable dorp like any other fiat bitcoin will drop too

the only way would be if bitcoin is not measured in fiat anymore

But we should compare something on how much value does something have and we compare it in fiat, so we can't bypass fiat.

Bitcoin shouldn't be tied to any other coin or fiat. It should be like pretty much every other currency out there, it isn't intrinsically tied to any other currency. The value of Bitcoin should be how fiat currencies are valued, how much stuff you can buy with one unit.

n691309

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Quote from: Amph on December 27, 2015, 11:35:48 AM

Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

well if bitcoin is tied to usd it will drop too, if it will be tied to the strongest new coin that will be inevitable dorp like any other fiat bitcoin will drop too

the only way would be if bitcoin is not measured in fiat anymore

But we should compare something on how much value does something have and we compare it in fiat, so we can't bypass fiat.

saturn643

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Quote from: calkob on December 27, 2015, 09:29:12 AM

Really is strange that the american people think they live in a free country, a country that can make it illegal to own a certain metal.....weird. How did they even let there government make such a law...... Huh

It isn't still illegal.

The price of Bitcoin will inherently increase since other fiat currencies are inherently inflationary.

Amph

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Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

well if bitcoin is tied to usd it will drop too, if it will be tied to the strongest new coin that will be inevitable drop like any other fiat bitcoin will drop too

the only way would be if bitcoin is not measured in fiat anymore

n691309

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Quote from: Denker on December 27, 2015, 10:02:51 AM

Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

Yes I think so too.
Andreas Antonopoulos once said we only have to make sure that Bitcoin survives.
So it will grow in value without being that much related to fiat.
If fiat however goes down, and the chance of this to happen is really big if you check the history of fiat currencies, the growth of Bitcoin could increase really fast and in an unimaginable scale.

As satoshi says that bitcoin or will rise (will be to the top) or will be shut down, but i don't expect that will be affected a lot by fiat.

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Quote from: n691309 on December 27, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

Yes I think so too.
Andreas Antonopoulos once said we only have to make sure that Bitcoin survives.
So it will grow in value without being that much related to fiat.
If fiat however goes down, and the chance of this to happen is really big if you check the history of fiat currencies, the growth of Bitcoin could increase really fast and in an unimaginable scale.

n2004al

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There are different and various conception of value. Depending from the point of view taken in consideration or taken as referring point. As for me, the price is the real and the right value of a currency. So have no meaning to tell for a currency that the price of it will rise and the value not. Are the same thing. The same even with every other product (independently of its form or substance). Its value is the price with which is sold or the price which someone is ready to give to have it. This mean that the value is not a fixed quality. Because depends from to many factors. So even with the value of bitcoin. Move in time (even within seconds) according to the price in market compared to all the other currencies.

n691309

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From your infographic i conclude that there is a drop of 95% of dollar's value, but bitcoin will rise whatever happens to fiat.

calkob

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Really is strange that the american people think they live in a free country, a country that can make it illegal to own a certain metal.....weird. How did they even let there government make such a law...... Huh

LiteCoinGuy

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