Topic: [Bitfury/Knc/Vmc] Multi-Manufacturer Group Buy- Diversify Your Mining Investment (Read 1741 times)

Hi everyone,

There doesn't seem to be enough interest in this. Also, I am pretty busy with my first group buy that arrived Tuesday. I think I will just buy one or two of the products mentioned in the OP myself after a couple paychecks.

Thanks for your time,

CH

If you implemented this group buy shares into bitfunder/btct, yes im interested as well

Hosting fee reduced to 3.5%

I also added to & edited my OP/terms to elaborate more on details.

I will probably make at least a couple more revisions to the OP before accepting any funds if there is enough interest, so please still continue to give me your opinions of this offering. Thank you for your cooperation.

I also learned from my first group buy (I probably sound like a broken record by now,) it is better to really think about your terms and plans ahead of time instead of just jumping in and ordering equipment without thinking through all the details! 

Sure, that would be fine. I am a little worried about charge backs, but at the end of the day if someone does do such a thing, I can recover their shares in the group buy.

EDIT:

To elaborate on this, if you buy into the group buy with USD, then the amount you invested will be at the mercy of the exchange rate and fees when I convert them into BTC. The final amount of BTC from you USD deposit will be the amount of BTC you've invested into the group buy. Share ownership will be maintained by the amount of BTC invested in, so it is important I immediately convert any USD payments for proper book keeping.

I'd be interested if I could pay with USD. Possible?

Interested.

Sounds like a pretty solid plan but might I suggest,
1) there be a contingency plan for re-investment in equipment so investors can keep getting a dividend and you don't wind up running at a loss.

2) If its successful think about buying in a few shares of my carbon offset program. I am already a big investor in that

Count me in as interested!

No problem.

I'm sorry if I came off as agitated in that post, I am not in the least bit! I was expecting that question sooner or later like I said, so I just wanted to explain my thought process thoroughly so everyone understood. 

If my fees do turn out to be outrageous and I make a killing, I will be more than happy to reimburse the group for the excessive fees, I just wanted to make sure I didn't operate this with a net loss like my previous group buy.

Thanks,

Ch

I'm interested too.

I just reread it as well, and you're right. The costs simply have to be higher, because the Bitfury machines are more expensive. I didn't mean to poke holes in the slightest. Just wanted to make sure that it's explained, and that because the machines are more expensive, the associated costs are kept to as much of a minimum as possible, so that the share price doesn't put off potential buyers.

Thank you for all of your feedback thus far.

I am going to put a minimum number on people interested before I start collecting funds, because I do not want to start collecting funds and have to refund everyone due to lack of interest. I'm looking for at least 20 people interested before any funds are collected, so far I've got 3 people interested.

So, 17 more people needed and I will hammer out the details in the OP and start taking orders.

This sounds interesting and I have been wanting to diversify, as I currently have 100gh/s on order from tyrion70's and blastbob's KnC group buy's.

I'm interested

Yes, I agree.

However, I used the shipping estimates that are provided by each manufacturer. I don't think it's fair that I speculate on how late each company might be, considering there is hardly any information about the inner workings of each company and it is anyone's guess at this point.

I make no guarantees that these dates are accurate, we will be at the mercy of the manufacturer.

Hi,

I knew this would come up sooner or later.  

After doing my first group buy (the hardware is arriving Wednesday), I have learned many things.  I lacked the foresight to include the internet bill and commercial rent into the terms and only charged a flat 3% fee. Because Avalon delayed almost 3 months, I will now most likely be operating my first group buy at a net loss .

In my opinion, a lot of these newer group buy administrators are going to run into the same thing. If the manufacturer delays months, or if difficulty sky rockets, they will not be able to operate profitably on a 3%-5% all expenses included fee (some will even likely operate at a net loss, like I am with my first group buy).

So, to make a group buy worth my time, I have structured this group buy so that I am covered if the manufacturer delays, difficulty skyrockets, etc... Group buys take a lot of time to do share transfers and communicate with the group buy participants, and do other random housekeeping.

No offense, but I do not work for free. I am operating my first group buy at a loss and eating the costs because I am a man of my word. If I am to host a second group buy, I need to make sure I'm operating with a profit... I'm not going to go broke hosting mining hardware for random people on an internet forum.

I hope you understand, I think some of the other group buy guys are just inexperienced when setting their fees and terms. It is possible that I could lower the 5% fee a bit.. maybe down to 3% or 4%. The OP is somewhat of a rough draft.

Thanks for your interest,

Ch

EDIT: Now that I had the chance to look over Soniq's offering, it seems he has almost the exact same fee structure as in my OP (BTC Mined - expenses - 5% fee). So, I guess I don't get what you're asking when you say "How are you're going to keep the share cost (in terms of GH/BTC) below that of Soniq's Bitfury GB?", because we have very similar terms.

since you havent bought the KNC, instead of September, an October delivery seems to be more plausible

Definitely interested!

But expenses + 5%? How are you're going to keep the share cost (in terms of GH/BTC) below that of Soniq's Bitfury GB?

 I don't mind paying a little more to achieve some diversification, but when it comes down to going KNC all the way or paying through the nose to mitigate risk, I think I might just rather gamble on KNC.

... I forgot to make the customary reserved post... 

The Plan:
Let’s face it, at this point we don’t know who out of the vaporware vendors will deliver on time, or if they will ever deliver at all. Investing in only one manufacturer’s hardware could leave you sitting on the sidelines and missing out on huge profits (see early BFL customers vs. early Avalon customers). I am proposing to spearhead a new type of group buy that would diversify invested funds for the purpose of mining Bitcoins. By buying mining hardware from multiple manufacturers, I aim to reduce the variance and risks associated with buying vaporware.

Not only am I making the best effort to diversify they group’s investment funds, but I have chosen the cheapest products ($ per Gh) from three manufacturers that I think are not scams. All three companies have similar shipping projections (September/October/November.) Also, all products to be ordered are built on small process nodes, ensuring that we will have an energy efficient mining operation, leaving us profitable even after Avalon 1st gen chips become unprofitable (and others built on larger process nodes.)

With that said, I am suggesting we invest in the following products from the following manufacturers:
- Bitfury 400 Gh Kit (October Delivery) - $8000 usd
- KNC Miner Jupiter 400Gh (September Delivery) - $7000 usd
- VMC Fast Hash One (Two 256 Gh One Modules) (October/November Delivery) - $ 7998 usd

Terms:
1 BTC invested = 1/X portion of profits from all mining machines combined
(X being the total amount invested on all equipment)

Products will be bought in the order they are listed. (As soon as $8000 is raised, a Bitfury 400 Gh will be bought. After that, as soon as $7000 is raised, a KNC Miner Jupiter 400 Gh will be ordered. After that, as soon as $7998 is raised, a VMC Fast Hash One will be ordered.) Machines will be ordered using this process until there is no more interest from investors.

I reserve the right to change which products and/or manufacturers we order from in this group buy. I will use my best judgment to pursue the products that are in each investor’s best interest. The mining hardware world is ever changing, perhaps there may be a better deal tomorrow or next week that would suit each investor’s pocketbook better. The group will be notified if I'm contemplating changing/switching/adding a product ordered to gather feedback.

Expenses will be subtracted from each month’s dividend payments using the latest Mt. Gox average for cost calculation. The equipment will be hosted in a shared environment with my previous Avalon Batch 3 group buy. This allows both operations to split the bills to operate as efficiently as possible (monetarily speaking).

The following expenses will be deducted from the BTC mined:
- Electricity costs (both for the mining rigs and air conditioner- calculated by the power used by this group buy versus total power used by both operations.)
- Half rent ($225 usd)
- Half security system with live monitoring ($??) (I’m not sure about the cost on this yet, I am getting the security system installed this week so I will know soon.)
- Half Internet Bill ($40)

After expenses are taken out, I will take out a flat 5% 3.5% hosting fee and then proceed to pay dividends to investors.

The equipment will be hosted on Eligius, allowing for complete transparency (many real time graphs and data for everyone to see), and also added benefit of a 0% pool fee from Eligius.

I am not responsible for hardware manufacturer non delivery under any circumstances. In the event that one manufacturer does not deliver, I will do my best to make sure that each investor’s funds are returned. Obviously this requires some cooperation from the manufacturer, but know that I will go to all lengths necessary to get our money back in the event of non-delivery, (including but not limited) to filing a lawsuit.  Although I will make every effort to provide a safe and appropriate hosting environment, I cannot be held liable for hardware failure and theft of property (including computer security intrusions). Again, I will make every effort possible in these regards.

Share transfers will be allowed, you may sell your shares to anyone you'd like via the forums or any way you'd like. As we've done with our previous group buy, selling shares in the auction sub forum has been probably the best way to do that. I monitor the Auction sub forums occasionally and will pop in and confirm you have the shares to sell. Share transfers will have a cut off date on the 27th day of each month. Whoever owns the stock on that day will receive the whole dividend for that month. Dividends will be payed at the end of each month.

I will keep extensive records of all transactions, share ownership, and share transfers in Excel format. These will be available at all times to all group buy participants after the funds have been collected and equipment ordered. I have worked hard to keep extensive records and maintain proper transparency with my first group buy and I will do the same with this one!

The group buy will have our own forums like my first, where I will provide news and updates and we can discuss all details as a group. I run my group buy like a democracy, I ask the group their opinion on almost every decision I make about the the group buy and our hardware. I tend to settle with the majority, but will in the rare case veto something if deemed extremely necessary.

About Me:
I conducted one of the first (if not THE first) group buys for ASIC hardware on these forums when we ordered seven Batch 3 Avalons. I just received tracking information for my previous group buy, and I would say everyone is generally happy with my service and can attest to my trustworthiness.

Apart from my previous group buy, I have also done over $20,000 worth of transactions on these forums without any problems at all. I have both bought and sold products and services numerous times on these forums and am as trustworthy as they come.

What I Need From You:
Please reply if you are interested in investing into this group buy. I am only judging interest in this right now, and will setup an ordering procedure in the near future if enough people are interested. Opinions on my investment plan and any changes you would make are more than welcome.

Thank you for your time,

Ch