Topic: Bitmain Release new 7NM Chip and Antminer S17 & T17 (Read 1337 times)

we will have to wait for now. maybe in a few months we will get an idea of what the plan is.

If Bitmain follows the Z11, then that means they've gone back to not using built-in PSU's (which I would love).

Let us know if you can  about any specs.

Thanks In Advance

I have only seen 30 at the chip from bitmain

and one person mentions 1200 watts for 34th  which is really good. about 35.3 watts a th

Fans and controller = maybe 50 watts

so 1150/34000 = 33.8 watts per th chipwise

I figure 1275/34000  37.5 per th is the best it can do power rate.

I figure a 30 chip  can do 20% so 36 watts a th

36 x 34th = 1224 + 51 = 1275.

two screen shots from bitmain show a design change in psu placement
my guess is s17 will do the z11 design  you could fit more on a shelf

Of course they are, its called product testing....

Announced is more accurate, since as far as we know no working models are operating or have been delivered to anyone.

The difference between "discussion" and "argument" is also subject to semantics.

Maybe we should move back to the topic proper?

Who is arguing with you? All I see is a discussion.

Semantics. Which is why I argued with him. Btw I would guess they have them at bitdeer and that they charge s15 power rates while they mine with the s17.

As there is zero oversight on this.

Technically there are many different ways to use released.

Does announced make you feel better... lol.

Then how do you define "released"?

I am sure they are mining with it already. I never said it was shipping or being sold.

No it can not be ordered as of today so it is not released.

looks like they released the 2nd gen chip of this already !?!

*** ANNOUNCED***

Reading the gauge article it mentions that they can work better when alone and ventilated than together with other wires sharing a racetrack or pipe. In such case you are supposed to reduce their "ampacity".

14gauge can take 15amps if the pair is, say, alone inside a pipe from the breaker to the plug. An S9 pulls like 6A at 220v, but that would be more than twice that at 110v so think 15a (you could/should measure it). Since I'm recommending to put the transformer next to the panel (not next to the miner) that 110v run should be really short, which is what you want to reduce resistance and can cheaply use thicker wires (gauge 12 or less) from breaker (20a) to transformer.

Of course if you have multiple 110v phases you could just use a couple of that and have like 208ish without any transformer (you just send both hots to that circuit). You are supposed to change the plug at the end so its clear that its a higher voltage plug, ie: Nema 6:

20 x 110 = 2200 x .8 = 1760

it pulls about 1600    that is 14.9 amps     that 1760 is 16 amps  rates  80% 24/7/365  if he uses 10 gauge  

I have pulled 22amps on 10 gauge copper for more then a year in a row 24/7/365 at  distance of 40 feet.

but I think both units  I mention  can not do this  as they would pull say 15 amps  and there is no way they will last pulling 15 amps.

the wire is 14 or 15 gauge  and that is not meant to do that much amps. 24/7/365.

From 110v? I'd say 30a circuit and gauge 8 wire

Actually, it would be smarter to do the transforming next to the panel, and send the already higher voltage over the wire. Then you can be fine with 15a/gauge 14 (or less).  Of course you do need the higher amp breaker/and lower gauge wire between panel and transformer.

Sorry did not test. I did test 240 to 220 transformer 1585 watts full power.

I did test 240 wall to s15   1565 watts.  As the transformer wastes 1.5% to change 240 to 220

So if you have to do 110 you will need a dedicated 20 amp circuit breaker and I would prefer 10 gauge copper over 12 gauge

I imagine there's a UPS that I could plug my PDU into?

Do you have the actual wattage pull at the wall @ 110V for this running the S15?
Just doing some rough planning for new runs in the warehouse, but I can only pull single phase 110.

Thanks,
Dave

to overcome the 220v issue could one not power these S and T series with a different PSU?..example: whatsminer PSU Input: 176v-250v far more leeway for voltage input on their unit.

edit* dammit, see they 9pin connectors on whatsminer PSU

---

imho...wont be cost effective re: ROI.  those UPS will only do 1 unit, upfront costs would be prohibitive..im also looking into a cost effective voltage regulator solution running either straight from my breakout board(220-240V input) or alternatively wall plug.

My whole house is 110v with a couple 220v lines for an electric stove and dryer, I thought that was pretty standard for US homes.

I added a couple 30a  240v lines but my electrical needs a make over head to all around. Might as well add networking to as I go room to room, then remodeling will take sometime.

What is the best way to stabilize voltage straight from the wall on my 240 line? UPS? Not sure what fluctuation is as I've only ever read wattage really.

Looking at my PDU's voltage stats for the past year my min is 225, max of 244, and avg of 236.6 volts. So I guess I need to wait if I were to pick up an S1x miner?

yeah I run  121 or 122 on the two legs that come to my home.

they go to 243  which mostly varies lower with load.

 But I have seen it spike to 245 246 247

and my meter that shows the high voltage for the month has climbed to 251 but I never did see it just read it.

My garage /home setup no longer makes money and is used to test and setup gear for the solar arrays.  Since  I know I can spike and do not want to kill off an s15 I am trying to do some transformer testing  and get more reports if the psu has an issue past 240  or not.

the array in clifton is doing 228 volts loaded heavy (55kwatt of 90kwatt available)

IF I REALLY NEED THE  transformers the s15 and the s17 are not that good for me.

Might want to clarify this sentence a bit then.

*ahem* So, how 'bout them S17 eh? Honestly I've been so busy around the shop the last few months I haven't even looked at an S15 yet, or frankly much of anything else this generation. Really need to take some time and catch up on what's coming out.

nop, 26th Feb till 31th march , provided bitcoin price is bellow 4445$

240V isn't that uncommon. My shop's 120V runs a bit high (122 or so, unloaded) but I've got three-phase so my line-line is nominally 208V but typically meters out at around 212V. That'd get me about 245V if I had the same transformers at the pole in a split single phase.

Good to know about the 240V PSU issues, good to know that issue shouldn't pop up here because I might be hosting some S15s soon.

Coupons are only good on exactly one day? That seems pretty stupid. They're gonna be inundated with orders.

I hate to be the person that have to tell you this, sorry !

these new coupons you got have a few certain funny rules that you need to be aware of.

1- if bitcoin price go 1 cent above 4445$ those coupons will automatically expire.

2- each coupon is specified to work on a certain miner and here they are.

  160$    > only for S11
  250$    > only for T15
  340$    > only for S15

the problem is this, they will only be available on 26th Feb to 31th March, so you can't use them now, and you have to pray that BTC price doesn't move up from here anymore.

however only the 190$ that were distributed prior to today's coupons don't have those restrictions.

I am a bit confused by this statement. There is nothing wrong with power in the US, other than the prices in some places.

Also 240v is rather rare in US households, you are normally getting 220v with the appropriate breaker to double up the 110v lines. I was unaware you could even get 240v to the home as i have never seen it anywhere but commercial buildings that had their own switch gear...

Also from what im reading the only people blowing up PSUs have 240v, which just like any other power can vary and spike. I can't be too upset about a piece of equipment blowing up when I knowingly run it outside of its rated capabilities.

I would be cautious to order till bitmain delivers a psu that performs but yes precautions are needed thanks to great insights by philip and others reporting issues. We tend to recommend a conservative approach regardless. If you're going to make hardware with an inclusive psu you better stand by the entire unit.

US power generally is crap and if you don't have better you can't run these and if you're running lines your running probably going to 240v.

okay we (not me but some bitcointalk members) have had a few psu's die on 240 volt setups and not on the 220 volt setup's

I ran a thread for reports on the s15's reliability and only 2 maybe 3 psu's died.

I found this item which should do 2 s15's safely  as it really does keep volts very close to 220volts.

but it is woefully wired (14 gauge) and I can only recommend running 1 s15.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norstar-5000-Watt-Step-UP-and-Down-Voltatge-Regulator-Transformer-Converter/332955089461?

I ordered this one which may also do only 1 s15 but is cheaper

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norstar-4000-Watt-Step-Up-and-Down-Voltage-Transformer-with-Voltage-Regulator/332607784072?

my hope would be it has 12 gauge wires and can really do 2 s15's  if it can do that it would be decent gear.

That s17 does seem like a bit of a game changer.  Would be great if they didn't force us to buy crappy PSUs along with them.

my limited understanding is these units are rated 220-240V ?  im also running 240V here in South Africa

Duties are determined by unit cost when regarding the coding used by CBP and should be taken from the unit line of invoicing.

De minimis value is in relation to the maximum value of merchandise in one shipment per person per day.

Neither of these take in account discount or in this case coupons and would essentially be left to be determined by CBP or freight company for most (who don't file their own customs filings). Neither of which I would recommend to leave outside of our own/your control. Even getting three s9j's has been problematic as most have been delivered by each and through interpretation is multiple shipments, thankfully we try and run with the freight company we have the best the relationship with as often as we can.

Still though make it rain with coupons, Bitmain wants to liquidate and lead market. I would just do sale pricing for a month and a half call it good. Coupons good till end of Q1 tell me my earlier estimate of Q4 is way off. Bitmain is going to want their market share back and it will be up to other manufacturers to compete.

The psu though has been problematic, hopefully they figure that out and we can stop spamming new customers with a product alert to run 220v. A a home miner with 240v myself and limited resources I'll be looking at units I won't have to step my power down for.

ill be doing the same ie. buying gear also.  for me the coupon is restricted to a $195 for S11 units.  T15 eligible for $300 and S15 $395

this is why I ordered all my m10's 1 at a time and waited until it was in my house for the next order.

As for s15 becoming a de minimis  using a 340 coupon I don't know if that will be true.

seems like it  1020 - 340 = 680 plus shipping

I simply do not know how bitmain will write up the invoice.

using a 340 coupon the t15 is  710-340 = 370 plus shipping

using a 240 coupon the s11 is 512-240 = 270 plus shipping

since all psu's are the same looks like buying a s11 for 270 could be a smart move.

my coupons are good in 7 days I will be buying some gear from them.

De minimis is based on the Invoice value. Since coupons are directly reflected in the final total value on the invoices they can easily put you under de minimis but -- remember that you MUST be under the $800 mark PER-DAY - NOT just per-order! IF you have 2 or more orders from the same company that are cleared by US customs on the same day and they total over $800 you will be screwed.

Sidehack I was not going to buy another s11 or s15 or t15.

I got 18 x 340 coupons
I got 18 x 250 coupons
I got 18 x 190 coupons

I will get a s11 and a t15.  For testing.

If my one s15 psu dies I can use the psu from the s11

The biggest issue with Trump tariffs is I'm not sure Trump has figured out that China's not paying the tax, Americans are. He's proven over the years to be pretty good at skirting paying taxes so he probably has a poor understanding of how they work.

If the miner has a built-in PSU with hard-wired connections, it could mean there's no string regulator per board. Depending how rails are handled in the PSU, that could mean less ability to fine-tune to each board's maximum efficiency but it would still increase the efficiency of the overall machine by 5-10%.

When figuring the efficiency of a miner based off the chips' operating point, you gotta add about 10% to the string regulator, about 60W for fans and controller, and then another about 10% in the power supply. That'll get you close at least. If there's no string regulator it cuts your conversion losses about in half. Sucks if something breaks, and that PSU will be useless for anything else ever, but hey it gets you a few extra watts in the meantime.

Bitmain could have done a more efficient string regulator from the start, considering they've been pushing at least 45A per board for a while now, if they'd switched to a dual-phase design (could have knocked that 10% down to around 6%) but that would have cost just a little more and taken more board space, and since they're all about density at the expense of everything else (especially reliability), and since increasing the parts cost shaves another 1-2% off the profit margin, I guess they figured it was a bad idea. But by replacing a generic PSU hookup with a model-specific PSU they get to boost efficiency, save on parts cost, maintain density and sell you two things at once.

Well I'm not sure how the de minus is calculated, when coupons are involved. Bitmain did just dump a lot of coupons into accounts, up to 395 for a S15 and 300 for the T15.

Definitely changes things a bit, and makes me think these units may be closer than we think.

With any luck Trump will see the tariffs are negligent and just noise. I believe we still have another month left of them trying to find an agreement. Typically we've been coaching on planning for the tariff through the year as most farms we work with only need a few units a month for pace sake. Some mix in de minimis units others don't. Essentially with planning if the tariffs cease you're hardware budget increases by almost a 1/3 but still not sure when that will happen as a wall is more priority and economy right now.. . .

If the "S17" is coming in a few months hopefully puts the s15 under de minimis otherwise your still looking at the same units essentially. I don't see a $221 drop in the s15 happening to soon and will be very surprised if the new units drop before Q3. Very happy to be wrong though.

my s15 has worked well so I am not sure what I am going to do now.

more s9's are out

m10's are now in a maybe stage.

Well if we do more build outs I will order something. Right now I think I need to push pause for a little bit.

I am not in the U.S so tax is not a problem at all, however i was planning to grab some S9s but after seeing this i really need to do more calculations, once these s17 hit the market, price for everything else will likely drop, i will probably be able to get used S9 for like 100$ instead of 140-160$ from China if not less.

but again the price for the S17 will be key , also should the bull run kick in a bit early "unlikely" every miner on plant will rise in price, so it's really a though decision that requires a good sleep and a cup of coffee.

My s15 does 27th at 1555 watts using a regulated 220 volt transformer.

So same psu pulling 1555 watts say 36 a th = damn!

The idea of ordering in two months and getting it in four months has me thinking I can not upgrade to m10s.

But the freaking trump tax is a mofo.

They'll keep the same wattage so expect the same fan noise to dissipate heat, just higher hashrate for the wattage used.

The first announcement  about chip BM1391  was made public on 21st Sep 2018 , with capacity being "as low as 42J/T"

source from here: https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generation-7nm-asic-chip/

less than 2 months later on November 8, the sale of the S15 started.

do we expect the S17 to come out somewhere around early April ?

edit:

if the BM1391 was announced to have  42J/T but the actual was 50J/TH this puts it at a loss factor of 1.19 when running in a normal environment, this means the BM1397 should be able to do  35.7J/TH

so is it possible that S17 will do 44TH at 1600W ? that would be massive !

What did they announce the 7nm first chip to be IIRC 37 per th.

Or is that a bad fact?

if it is 30 watts a th  and was 37 watts a th  it is only 19%

or was it 42 watts a th for the first 7nm they announced?

anyone have a link or screen shot?

also when did they announce first chip?

Good point. With the new built in psu with "hardwired" power connections its not like I can take a couple of hashboards out and just run one to keep the noise down   Oh well I can only dream lol

With those kind of numbers could it mean a return for the home miner? I for one would love to have at least one machine with a decent profit margin and....dare I say it.....Low noise level  

nm isn't everything, just look at Intel they've been on 14nm for ages.

I believe the S11 is running BM's most advanced 16nm chip. Wasn't mentioned in the initial announcement of their first 7nm miners and the efficiency numbers don't line up to be running their 7nm chip.

SO the S11, S15, T15, S17 and T17 are all 7nm? Why bother with so many models?

Ok NVM, i see the chip model number have increased as well. I wonder what will the pricing be, and when will MicroBT respond...

Over 28% efficiency increase in one generation? That's pretty wild, I wonder how much they can continue to squeeze out of 7nm in the future.

Might be an abundance of speculation here but the announcement is reality, the chip exists. I would expect for consumers this will be available by Q4'19 pretty safely. I'm more interested in how other manufacturers react. Since Canaan was mentioned I'm surprised we haven't seen more from them.

Well it's my humble opinion and from my personal experience.

I would say my hosting facility would also agreed on that.

EDIt: it's also fine that we don't agree on my opinion

Drink less hatorade and do a bit of research and you will find that bitmains quality and reliability are on par (if not better) with anyone else on the market other than Canaan. Since Canaan usually prices themselves out of the market, bitmain still provides the most efficient gear and the best prices.

Might add that until these show up in the wild - this belongs in Speculation.

Yeah... "now" it is...

Since the S5, S7 and S9 were all impressively reliable.

The real question is how shitty they will be.

Their gear is now a shame in term of durability.

No :

The key is if trump tax gets lifted  trump is meeting with china leader very soon so an announcement that the tax is lifted may happen.

If I need 10 megawatts of gear and I am USA located  this announcement makes me wait.  
As it clearly means that I would want this over the m10 or the S15 if the trump tax is lifted.

So I think this announcement was made early.

I also think the trump tax lifts  bitmain drops the s15 to 950  and with no trump tax it sells better then the m10. that mean no need to speed up the s17

So the s17  should arrive in Jan or Feb next year at best.

As a USA guy this  announcement may stop me buying any more m10's and sitting on my  Clifton build out as it is now.

20 s9i's
7 m10's
1 a921
2 a721
1 innosilcon t2turbo
4 s7 ln
1 s15
total of  550th  I had planned to do   more m10's and retired the older gear.

I now need to keep trump tax on radar and s17 on radar and s15 price drops  3 factors.

I also know 30 watts a th is not what this means.

the older 7nm is 37 and at the wall gets 50 on low speed  58 on high speed

do if 30/37 = 81%  then  40 watts on low speed and 46 on high speed is more like it.

Can't say I saw that big of a leap in improvement coming so early, that's huge.

I wonder how far out these are from production. If they aren't planning on changing their overall design, it's easy enough to announce their product launch after the first test chips. Anyone think we'll see these selling in September with a November delivery?

Wow,
those are some efficienct numbers if they are able to do it for the final product

Bitmain has released it two new antminers. The new Antminer s17 and the new antminer t17. Both of these 2019 new bitcoin and bitcoin cash miners will be using the newest and most efficient 7nm chip the BM1397 7nm ASIC bitcoin mining hardware.

Here is the press release:

Or you can view the youtube video here:
https://youtu.be/vbxiE61RfPc


You can read it yourself here: https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generation-7nm-asic-chip-for-sha256-mining-delivering-breakthrough-energy-efficiency/