Author

Topic: Bitsler or freebitcoin,which one is the fairest ? (Read 735 times)

full member
Activity: 1638
Merit: 122
It's funny that some of the user don't bother reading or taking a look at the first post, which the thread are 3 years old and any answer today will not matter.

On the other hand, it's great to see that both of the casino after 3 years are one of the greatest gambling casino right now. Time flies, but I can still remember my losses and winnings for both casino. Cheesy

if i dont read your post i wouldnt be knowing it lol thanks  , i believed other users that coment on here feels the same  .  3 years have passed now so i think both sites changed alot , so you cant say that time doesnt matter  .  good thing that you still remember your past experience with them but the good part is that you win too  . bitsler is the one that is a pure gambling site , thats why they have an extra win percentage than freebit so i chose bitsler to be more fair too
asu
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1136
It's funny that some of the user don't bother reading or taking a look at the first post, which the thread are 3 years old and any answer today will not matter.

On the other hand, it's great to see that both of the casino after 3 years are one of the greatest gambling casino right now. Time flies, but I can still remember my losses and winnings for both casino. Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 293
I've already played in bitsler and freebitcoin years ago and both of them are great gambking sites that gives fantastuc rewards, so i think both of it seems fair enough for a gambler to win ang lose, its only depends on your luck.
full member
Activity: 2520
Merit: 214
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

and bitsler:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?

Lol odds are just for attraction but the truth is whether it is high or low your wil rate will rely on your Luck so there is no sense in looking in to that.
But of course These 2 gambling site are The most competitive and legitimate as long as bitcointalk.org is concern.

Bistler is the famous gambling site now and freebitcoin is running near also.
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1723
Before people reply they should check the date of the original post which was at the end of 2017. Which means that most likely the OP will never reply again and he most likely got his answer. I didn't even have to look at the date in the thread I could tell just by looking at the images that it was taken years ago.

Basically most dice casinos are more or less the same. Some have higher or lower house edges and others have some nice features but overall they are all the same pretty mch. Hence why dice is always so simple.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1247
Bitcoin Casino Est. 2013
I think both sites are fair but I think freebitco.in is a bit more known even outside this forum.The number of registered users there shows this fact.Beside this many people who play dice don’t care about the percentage chance as most gamblers believe if it will come it will come for sure no matter the odds.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1104
A good option is to use freebitco.in only for faucet, getting free satoshis every hour (no betting, no risks)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoqjT_BKeg8

With this free bot, you can automatically click in ROLL button every hour (you can leave it working all day for you). It can also enable Reward Points automatically (to get more RPs, and also to increase the amount of BTC you get every hour)


Wow! how low can you get? necrobumping a three years old dead thread just to advertise your freebitco.in bot? why even necrobump this thread when you already have an announcement regarding you about your bot?
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 364
In Code We Trust
I believe, free bitcoin is already there way back 2013, and they've already built up a strong reputation in terms of gambling and for experienced gambler there, I can say freebitcoin is fair not just because they provide faucet, but through experience while betting.

What I can say, both of the gambling platforms are still having a house edge in the long term, but this doesn't necessarily mean that gamblers will not win a decent amount.
full member
Activity: 1750
Merit: 118
both sites are fair but freebit has a much higher house edge but this does not mean that you can now always win on bitsler   . many people still play on freebitco not because they arent aware with that but because freebitco has some unique features that cant be found on bitsler or any other gambling sites out there  .

  there are lotto and sports betting game on freebit plus faucet   . you can earn passive income too  because they also gave interest rate per btc you sit on your account
legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 1140
duelbits.com
I don't know why you consider "the fairest" based on the chance of winning. How if freebitcoin is more honest to let the users know about the "win chance"? Anyway, I assume there is no guarantee to win even if Bitsler has a higher "win chance". In my opinion, the chance to win on luck-based gambling games is always the same, less than 50%. So, why you bother the chance to win on freebitcoin which is very little different than Bitsler.  Huh
full member
Activity: 338
Merit: 102
It's a fact that bitsler has a higher chance of winning compared to freebitcoin, but that doesn't make bitsler fairer than freebitcoin.
Moreover, freebitcoin focuses on faucets, so it's only natural that dice games are made a smaller chance of winning than bitsler.
This may be one way to smooth faucet payments made by freebitcoin. So the conclusion depends each person wants to play dice
on bitsler or freebitcoin. Can also play dice on other gambling sites.
Yes bitsler has higher chances of of winning because I have experienced in the two gambling site almost every I won in bitsler but in freebitcoin maybe I won twice only so I think the most fairer is bitsler. As you can say try other gambling site because there a lot of site that they can gamble.
full member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 117
It's a fact that bitsler has a higher chance of winning compared to freebitcoin, but that doesn't make bitsler fairer than freebitcoin.
Moreover, freebitcoin focuses on faucets, so it's only natural that dice games are made a smaller chance of winning than bitsler.
This may be one way to smooth faucet payments made by freebitcoin. So the conclusion depends each person wants to play dice
on bitsler or freebitcoin. Can also play dice on other gambling sites.
member
Activity: 175
Merit: 14
Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

and bitsler:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?

More people use freebitco.in, so more people bet with it.
Also, on bitsler or freebitco.in, I know that a lot of people, including me, don't deposit on it. I only use the money gained from the faucet to gamble with.
hero member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 722
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
I dont know why people do still make any discussion into this 3 year old thread and just been bumped by a noob above posting his own referral link.

You guys should at least tend to read up the date before making any further discussion which isnt really that necessary.

On the other hand, its been 3 years and lots of dice sites now which do fly with colors not only people focusing on bitsler or Freebitco.

There are lots of options which is more better.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1500
Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the number one site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in.

However, I have to say that although people on average lose their money faster on this site than on most others, it is very well managed and has other interesting features.


Lol! Very true! Gambling is not at all a method to earn money. People who see gambling as a method to earn money, are doing it wrong from the very beginning. People don't understand that the house always wins unless and until you are the chosen one. Every gambling website is here to make money and not to make you money! They are just like any other business which is driven by only profit.

The freebitco has positioned themselves very cleaverly. They were initially a very simple website but now they have evolved into a giant of gambling simply because of their domain name.

To OP, 2% difference in winning chance really doesn't matter and it doesn't allow you to conclude which one is the fairest. Gambling business depends on various other factors like support  response, ease of withdrawal, KYC requirement among others. Whoever is better in these parameters, usually win the business.
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 2353
Like most of noobs OP is confusing provably fairness and profitability. House edge has nothing to do with fairness and Freebitcoin can't be fairer than it is since you're able to change your seed for whichever you want after having seen the hash of the house one. Personally I use my own personal seed each time I play.  
sr. member
Activity: 882
Merit: 269
Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

and bitsler:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?
Bitsler is one of the popular gambling site on this forum and this gambling site is well published here and I think they campaign is still running. I think it is the most honest and give more opportunities for one to win than freebitcoin. Of a truth I have a Friend that has been playing one thing or the other at freebitcion and he has to abandoned it middle of this year because he refer to it a waste of time.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
In terms of gambling, fairness is not considering because gambling is always not unfair. If you notice winning rate in freebitcoin is 47.50% while your losing rate is 52.50% where is the fairness between two? almost same with bitsler. Gambling will become fair if the winning and losing percentage will become 50%-50%. I guess this is the way to said that gambling is fair.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1001
Freebitcoin is famous because of it's faucets, most of the beginner always start from faucet and freebitcoin is one of the faucet that got multiplier game, so the focus is not in the gambling site, while bitsler is a famous dice site, both of the site is provably fair, but bitsler got other games and got more feature than freebitcoin
staff
Activity: 3206
Merit: 575
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
I believe both of the sites are fair to their players, this thread should be named, does players prefer to play more on bitsler or freebitco.in, I think gamblers would prefer to play more often on bitsler than freebitco.in because of the house edge, in dice gambling, house edge does matters a lot for the players.
sr. member
Activity: 1344
Merit: 311
Freebitcoin is really not clear it's not fair. almost everyone gamble there always lose. but different from bitsler. I prefer bitsler if in the best gambling category in dice
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1163
Where is my ring of blades...
in gambling there is nothing called being "farer". a casino is either fair or scam. there is nothing in between. because things must be provably fair to play there. and both places have implemented a strong and reliable probably fair system which players can easily check for themselves on every single roll they make.

it is all about the house edge and I see people are giving different numbers for both sites like 2%, 7%,... which is pretty weird because as I recall bitsler has 1% house edge like most dice sites and freebitcoi.in has 5% which is why it is giving you those numbers as your high and low when you put it on 2x multiplier.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1312
You need to know that probably all those newbies who join free.bitcoin are just doing it because they do not know anything about it.

They are probably earning 10 or 15 satoshis per hour, but they are gambling it all on the dice.

Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the numberne site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in

But you are on the point, when you search free bitcoins (and almost all the newbies are doing so) that is probably the first page that pop-ups.

Bitsler is more fair than freebitco.in, that is what i think.

Freebitco.in have couple threads here, most starting with `did anyone win something there`. Bitsler is much more fair, freebit is just a site that we all use in the beginning, after many losses and going back to zero again I stopped going there. That site is good as faucet, at least it was while rewards were high, now 10 satoshis for one claim is really low. They are attracting people with big promises but I don`t know anyone who earned some
money there.


Their rewards on the faucet stays the same since they started the business, it is indeed low in satoshi denomination but it stays the same if you use $. So it was not higher than now, because they are the same. In case the fairness, I think both are the same because both are provably fair where you can verify your bets. The only big difference is about the house edge.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1023
Bitsler without any hesitation!

It's not that freebitcoin isn't a good site, it's just that it's not a real casino site.
If I remember well the house edge is about 7% ? Something like that?
So you can't really call that a gambling website or something fair xD
But the good point is that freebitcoin is a faucet so you don't have to deposit :3

The house edge is 5%, not 7% in freebitco.in site.

They may not be gambling site but their hi-low game is fair because they have an option to verify each and every bet so you can't say they are not fair.

They are here for a quite long time and trusted site but the only thing is high house edge so I don't like to play a hi-low game on their site.
hero member
Activity: 1694
Merit: 541
Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the numberne site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in
If you are playing with your own money,then the odds with which you win is important,the site is searched by newbies who does not have any idea about gambling in the first place and they wont be spending much money on the site,just play with the faucet and that is it,if you are serious gambler,the odds is really important.
hero member
Activity: 1694
Merit: 502
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
You need to know that probably all those newbies who join free.bitcoin are just doing it because they do not know anything about it.

They are probably earning 10 or 15 satoshis per hour, but they are gambling it all on the dice.

Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the numberne site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in

But you are on the point, when you search free bitcoins (and almost all the newbies are doing so) that is probably the first page that pop-ups.

Bitsler is more fair than freebitco.in, that is what i think.

Freebitco.in have couple threads here, most starting with `did anyone win something there`. Bitsler is much more fair, freebit is just a site that we all use in the beginning, after many losses and going back to zero again I stopped going there. That site is good as faucet, at least it was while rewards were high, now 10 satoshis for one claim is really low. They are attracting people with big promises but I don`t know anyone who earned some
money there.
hero member
Activity: 766
Merit: 509
You need to know that probably all those newbies who join free.bitcoin are just doing it because they do not know anything about it.

They are probably earning 10 or 15 satoshis per hour, but they are gambling it all on the dice.

Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the numberne site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in

But you are on the point, when you search free bitcoins (and almost all the newbies are doing so) that is probably the first page that pop-ups.

Bitsler is more fair than freebitco.in, that is what i think.
hero member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 525
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
Bitsler without any hesitation!

It's not that freebitcoin isn't a good site, it's just that it's not a real casino site.
If I remember well the house edge is about 7% ? Something like that?
So you can't really call that a gambling website or something fair xD
But the good point is that freebitcoin is a faucet so you don't have to deposit :3

Yes, better to use FreeBitco.in only as faucet and investment option, if you want to gamble, use another sites. People are used to use their faucet earnings to gamble at FreeBitco.in, but that is a mistake on long term. You take a lot of time to accumulate a decent balance then start gambling there trying to increase your balance, but you end losing all your hard work in minutes... I'm not saying you will make profit with other casinos, but at least you will have more chances to play for more time without hitting a fatal streak loss.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1251
Bitsler without any hesitation!

It's not that freebitcoin isn't a good site, it's just that it's not a real casino site.
If I remember well the house edge is about 7% ? Something like that?
So you can't really call that a gambling website or something fair xD
But the good point is that freebitcoin is a faucet so you don't have to deposit :3
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2272
Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:
https://i.imgur.com/Vf7XJQM.png
and bitsler:
https://i.imgur.com/X2Zl2RM.png
so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ?
It's called house edge, it has nothing to do with fairness. Both sites are provably fair.
You see, bitsler has lower house edge than freebitcoin which means you will win more often on bitsler. House edge is around 1% in every single dice site while freebitcoin has biggest house edge(5%).
and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?
You would be surprised to see how many people don't care about house edge.
hero member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 609
Both of them are fair on my own view and both sites are running for how many years already and they do have players who do play and support such site. I dont have too much knowledge on how many users they do have but i know they are legit but as a player when you are concern about on the odds then i would go for bitsler since they do have much lower and the image justify itself.
member
Activity: 313
Merit: 11
 i think bitsler is fairest  than freebitco.in i played a lot in freebitco.in even once i never win in freebitco.in specially you doing auto bet  theres no win in that site for me being a gambler playing in freebitco.in is no thrill at all but in terms in faucet there are the best, while in bitsler i win many times sometimes even in free faucet in bitsler i win if im lucky
hero member
Activity: 2814
Merit: 911
Have Fun )@@( Stay Safe
Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the number one site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in.

However, I have to say that although people on average lose their money faster on this site than on most others, it is very well managed and has other interesting features.
First and foremost freebitc.in is not a dedicated gambling site and they have the highest odds in the gambling industry ,i am not telling that it is not famous,i started going to the site when it was launched and it was a good faucet and they allowed you to use those coins to play dice too,bitsler is a dedicated dice site and their house edge is much lower than free bitcoin.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
Actually I never win in freebitco unlike bitsler and pd where I've been able to make several withdrawals though get loss more but I never give an eye to odds I just keep playing I even adjust odds higher for bigger winnings because I believe that gambling is just all about being lucky.
sr. member
Activity: 742
Merit: 253
I haven't try bitsler while I have an account on freebitco.in so far for almost 5 months now I already have .0012 bitcoin from faucet. I try doing multiply btc but infortunately I didn't win I guess having an house edge more than 1% is not fair. As much as I want to earn from betting still I only experience loss. I am now trying my luck in JETWIN who knows maybe this will make a big difference in the coming years
I do know these two gambling sites. but until now I have never tried both because I am only interested in casino gambling that always gives me an advantage. because perjudiam dice just a lucky game that may be defeated by the edge house
full member
Activity: 336
Merit: 100
both offering fairness in every bet u made..ah no no no.. i mean, every gambling site offering fairness lol...but, if we compare bitsler and freebitco.in, i will prefer to bitsler...

first, house edge. bitsler offering 1% House edge and freebitco.in have 2% house edge *cmiiw...so i think bitsler have better chance to win

second, bitsler have good community, promotions, giveaway etc..

btw im playing in yolodice.. if u interest, u can play here: https://yolodice.com/r?S2k-PcV
Please don't post your referral link here it's against the rules
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 108
I haven't try bitsler while I have an account on freebitco.in so far for almost 5 months now I already have .0012 bitcoin from faucet. I try doing multiply btc but infortunately I didn't win I guess having an house edge more than 1% is not fair. As much as I want to earn from betting still I only experience loss. I am now trying my luck in JETWIN who knows maybe this will make a big difference in the coming years
hero member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 529
Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?
Just the house edge is more in case of freebitco.in you cant decide fairness based on house edge, both sites are equally fair but yes you will have a tad bit better chance of winning at bitsler than on freebitco. As far why people still bet on freebitco is becuase simply they dont know about bitsler, freebitco.in is much more popular almost everyone finds it, it is the first search result for "free bitcoin" and most of the people gamble just the faucet amount there.   
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 114
both offering fairness in every bet u made..ah no no no.. i mean, every gambling site offering fairness lol...but, if we compare bitsler and freebitco.in, i will prefer to bitsler...

first, house edge. bitsler offering 1% House edge and freebitco.in have 2% house edge *cmiiw...so i think bitsler have better chance to win

second, bitsler have good community, promotions, giveaway etc..

btw im playing in yolodice.. if u interest, u can play here: https://yolodice.com/r?S2k-PcV
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1015
IMO , you can compare since they are different type of site.

Freebitco.in is a site that focus on faucet ( they can additional games like dice , etc )
meanwhile bitsler is purely gambling site.

For example:  if you see freebitco.in House edge , it's has high compare bitsler !
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Both gambling site has an house edge and both site are fair when it comes to gambling it just that bitsler has a little high chance of winning over freebitcoin, 2% chance is still a lot of factor when i comes to chances of winning but both site are fair nothing is irregular to it.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1023
I think you need to change the title of this thread to which site got better chance to win not fairest. Because house edge nothing to do with site fairness.

Higher house edge nothing but you may lose money faster or pay higher house edge on each bet. Particularly if your high amount better then you feel that paying the high amount for every bet. If I want to deposit money and play then I will choose bitsler not because of their fairness but because of low house edge.
full member
Activity: 336
Merit: 100
I don't see any major difference in the two while one 47.5%, the other is 49.5% which means I have only 2% higher chance to win considering the 2% is not even a certainty rather its just increasing the chances and that does not even add any value since its cannot turn to winning even if its 99%, the 1% remaining shows there can still be unimaginable amount of losses.

Both sites have been around for a while and have gathered their reputation over the years which this comparison a futile one because I don't see anyone changing his site just to get 2% higher chance.

Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

and bitsler:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?
well you are kinda right 2% isn't that big of difference, but if you are going to make like 100+ bets this 2% can be a really really a big thing
hero member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 569
I don't see any major difference in the two while one 47.5%, the other is 49.5% which means I have only 2% higher chance to win considering the 2% is not even a certainty rather its just increasing the chances and that does not even add any value since its cannot turn to winning even if its 99%, the 1% remaining shows there can still be unimaginable amount of losses.

Both sites have been around for a while and have gathered their reputation over the years which this comparison a futile one because I don't see anyone changing his site just to get 2% higher chance.

Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

and bitsler:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1115
Providing AI/ChatGpt Services - PM!
Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?
Those images don't justify anything..How are the winning chances determined anyway ?  One of them could be rigged or probably fairer than another.You cannot predict it anyway...

Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the number one site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in.
That doesn't mean they operate 'fairly'.You can  get your website on the front pages of the google by doing SEO,no big deal.As long as the later website is concerned,the sort of have some community support as they're operating for  quite a time now.
full member
Activity: 336
Merit: 100
Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the number one site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in.

However, I have to say that although people on average lose their money faster on this site than on most others, it is very well managed and has other interesting features.

so it is right ? the odds are different btw each of these sites ?
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
Most people don’t care about odds, if they really cared they wouldn’t gamble at all. Freebitco.in is the number one site. Do you know how many people search “free bitcoin” every day? The site appearing first is freebitco.in.

However, I have to say that although people on average lose their money faster on this site than on most others, it is very well managed and has other interesting features.
full member
Activity: 336
Merit: 100
Hey all  Smiley

so i was doing some gambling lately in both freebitcoin and bitsler sites and i think i discovered something ! i guess you have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin why ? check the image below:

and bitsler:

so you technically have a higher chance of winning in bitsler than freebitcoin ? how come ? and why people still bet on freebitcoin if they already know that the odds aren't in their favor ?
Jump to: