Topic: Bitstamp: Less than 19,000 BTC lost !!! (Read 3941 times)

If everyone withdrew cash and bitcoins, they would need to have customers funds. They should sign Bitcoin addresses and get their bank accounts audited.

I think it would be difficult to coordinate this kind of systemic withdrawals by all their customers. I would also argue that this would not prove their solvency - they could buy bitcoin from their customers with customer fiat

I agree with you, not everyone withdrew their funds; only a small fraction of deposits were withdrawn. They handled the situation very well but the market is tanking very hard now; we touched 175$ on bitstamp.

If _everyone_ temporarily withdrew their funds without a hit the day they relaunched, they would have proven their solvency. The fact that anyone who tried was able to is not proof of solvency.

I'm not sure why I am arguing this. They obviously have handled a major problem in what seems to be a good fashion. But we don't really know, do we?

is that the hackers address?

if so, how the heck did you find it.. im relieved though that bistamp is around or else the prices would drop hard.

The fact that anyone could've withdraw all their funds without a hitch the day they relaunched, proves their solvency (in the short term).  In theory according to what they stated when they reopened, that meant all their users could have up and withdrew and left for good.

As far as the fractional reserve part, we'll have to wait and see.

Mind you, I'm in agreement, that any legitimate exchange should be audited on a regular basis by a third party to ultimately prove solvency.

19K may be as high as 5% of their users holdings so not a cake out of millions but a cake out of tens of cakes.

If you look at their equity meaning the value they have if you substract all users assets that they should not use, it's probably between 20 and 100%

If you compare 19 000 to their profits it's probably more than their net profit for 2014.

Check the bitcoin address again  : https://blockchain.info/it/address/1L2JsXHPMYuAa9ugvHGLwkdstCPUDemNCf


Bitcoin are still coming ( Maybe a RNG  "bug").

Proven solvency? I might have missed it - how have they proven they are not now operating in a fractional reserve manner?

Seriously, hats off to them in their plans to keep their risk exposure down, their seemingly well-laid plans to get back online after a major issue, and their work so far to make customers whole. But in my world, "proof" requires proof.

No, it isn't.  They're fully functional and operating as we type right now.

They lost 19,000 BTC of their own operational hot wallet, but all customers funds were completely secured, and they've proven in the last week or so to be solvent since the breach.

Gox, on the other hand, shut down, halted all withdrawals, and disappeared with all the customers funds completely, without recourse or paying back the lost coins totalling nearly $500 million.

Huge difference.

is this going to be another mt.gox moment? i really hope not.. 

Bitstamp i̶s̶ was one of the best exchanges.

Bitstamp is one of the best Exchange.

Lol at that.
Moreover, bitstamp stated that it's just a fraction of their reserves, this 19k bitcoins is just a piece of cake out of millions of cakes they have, they also have vcs

The price of bitcoin actually spiked when bitstamp opened back up.....to almost $300 (although it did subsequently fall to ~270)

This is the reason why bitcoin keep decreasing ?

because the lack of security...

It is generally more difficult to mix that large of an amount of bitcoin in a short period of time. For example the maximum that bitmixer can "mix" at one time is ~2,000 bitcoin but even mixing this much would mean that there is an increased chance of some adversary figuring out where your coins ended up

Looks like they skipped it to work on the restoration:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-testing-redeployment-san-francisco-relaunch-24-48-hours/

Not surprising, seems like an all hands on deck situation, so don't blame them for not making a CES appearance.

In bitcoin, there is a concept of mixing, for which tracing coins may become very very difficult or almost impossible. Services like bitmixer.io offers mixing. Mixing can also be done by trading in exchanges against alt coin.

The whole point of bitcoins is to send currency to someone without 3rd party! What you propose is like using a bank wire...

That's difficult in one step I think. But as a first step you could blacklist stolen coins and don't trade those coins. Private mixing don't helps much, because in this case you would need 19k clean coins to get the taint under 50% and the tainted coins would still distinguish from others. This is at least not a technical problem but a political issue in the community:

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/505-coin-tracking/

tldr: Community don't want this for religious reasons. Do not discuss with religious fanatics. I also think that most exchanges do not want it. Gox was an inside job for a example. Today the big mixing services exchanges are in China. 0+0=8; nuff said.  

Bitstamp booth at CES, yesterday.

Looks like they never made it to Vegas.

Where is their CEO right now?

I don’t understand why the coins can’t be traced to the hackers.

If Bitcoin address 1234 sells to 4321 and 4321 sells to 100 other wallets, when those 100 wallets dump to an exchange can't the police just trace it back to the source?

I think there should be a credentials checking system for creating wallets, for example when someone sign’s up for a wallet they provide ID, the crypto addresses that are created from the wallet are then legally binding to that person. This ID information is not publically available, but instead locked up within the Bitcoin network protocol. Ok, I understand there will be some level of administration and the whole process will need to be automated as much as possible to reduce cost overhead. In the same way Bitcoin transactions are processed using "Bitcoin Miners", maybe add on to the existing protocol, some sort of "Identification Miner" which has connections to credit reference agencies. In fact, let’s not have people and make this completely automated, isn’t the world heading that direction anyway? Although, I suppose someone would need “the key” to unlock ID information, which would mean a form of centralisation. I think.

It’s only an idea, what the heck do I know, I’m no programmer and certainly not an expert in BTC. Just some guy who really wants BTC to succeed and enjoys a bit of mining   

Some people might wonder were and when the coins will be dumped sold

Where did they say that? They never said that. On the first day they said they wanted to give an ETA later that day (which they did). Then they said it would take them approx. 24 hours until they got their internal system back up from the backup in a new safe location - they did. Now they are saying it will take approx. 24-48 hours until they are available again. Doesn't look to bad in my books!

they clearly said 19k BTC aint no problem for them, as u even posted. why are u asking again if u posted answer your question ?

Bitstamp said that they will open today
Bu now still i cant use them
it smells bad..

I don't think many people who don't have funds on Bitstamp are panicking.

I think the same.

in this case(Bitstamp), hm...I am not sure what to say...

What I am SURE is that all the big "players" are a gang. I include the chineses exchangers too.

Bistamp is related with Ripple, Bitcoin Foundation and others. Their shareholders are shareholders for many other bitcoin companies.

i think they will cover the loss because the scandal will be TOO BIG and it will involve all these companies and Bitcoin will crush.
Bitfinex, Coinbase are related with Bitstamp. Bitstamp is processing their orders.

They have no interest to comprise all these companies when they are making millions.


So, they are a gang who is manipulating the market how they want and each of them are taking a piece of the cake named Bitcoin.

a simple proof is these days. Bitstamp hacked, people in panic, a lot of sells and the Bitcoin price is raising

Painfully true. We never seem to hear "We've brought in outside accountants, and here they are, and here's their full audit report", or "we've brought in the police, and here's Detective ABC, who will report on the status of the investigation", or "immediate refunds are available by contacting the lawyers who are managing our shutdown".

I urge anyone in the UK with substantial money in Bitstamp to use the "statutory demand" procedure to compel them to pay up. From the UK goverment web site:

You can make a statutory demand to ask for payment of a debt from an individual or company.

Anyone who’s owed money can make a statutory demand and you don’t need a lawyer.

When someone receives a statutory demand, they have 21 days to either settle the debt (or) reach an agreement to pay.

If they don’t make an agreement, you can start ... winding up a limited company that owes more than £750.

This is a big hammer. You can take Bitstamp into liquidation if they don't pay up. The UK is a "pay up or else" country. The UK used to have debtors prisons, and while they've lightened up a bit on debt enforcement in the last century, they're still tougher on debtors than the US or Japan. (Ireland is even tougher.)

You can only do this if you have an address in the UK, though. Otherwise, you need a lawyer in the UK.

Yup. Not only do you get market risk, but counterparty risk besides. Just a cost of doing _that_ type of business. Factor it in when you're doing your cost/benefit analysis.

I see this mentioned all the time. Sure it's easy to just say "DON'T LEAVE BTC ON THERE", but when someone actively trades on an exchange, there's no other way. You need BTC or fiat readily available in case of an unexpected dip or jump in price. It takes about an hour for bitsamp to credit your account if you deposit BTC (6 confirmations), so depositing funds right when you see a dip is already too late.

The overtly optimistc/blind will defend these guys til they burn down to the ground.


IMO, all these supposed 'hacks' of exchanges were nothing more than inside jobs.  Gox, Cryptorush, Coinex, Mintpal, Bitstamp...the list goes on forever.  This is stolen money..and the owners/scammers all just follow the same wordpress template during the situation:

*insert 'down for maintenance page'
*insert 'we have been attacked, please allow us time to address the issue' splash page message
*insert 'we assure your old funds are safe, please bear with us' update message
*insert 'we are terribly sorry but due to the losses we have to close up shop as we are insolvent' finality message, as you strung along users for over a month with enough time to flee your native country, change your legal name, and enjoy your millions you scammed from your own users 



At least with Mintpal, they admitted it.  But at the same time, after reading that whole fiasco, even that seems a bit shady because it's 2 owners deferring blame to a rogue member.  And I have heard zero updated on the court proceedings that supposedly started 3 months ago (and nobody has even verified or attended it)...to which they even raised a good 5 digits worth of bitcoin charity for their supposed prosecution money.

Ridiculous lol.

very good choice. at least, nobody will steal your money. you can go to sleep without fear that in the morning your money are vanished in an ukrainian or russian pocket(hacker)

It is creepy that they have not solved the issue yet

I say that was a theft.
It's a strong reminder that you shall not leave any money at an exchange. I'm stunned that many people still do.

Nope - I'm completely serious.



I am not anti sig campaign per se. I am against people using sig campaigns to shill for fraudulent activities.


No. You are promoting that people use PayBase. An entity whose real reason for existing is likely nothing other than a means for Garza to unload his near-certain Ponzi Paycoins (96% of the total, and proportionally growing due to his 350% staking rate) for others' Bitcoins and other things of actual value.

The fact that your initial post to which I replied was you deriding anyone who kept money on exchanges is just the ironic icing on the proverbial cake.



Certainly, you're aware that the reason you are paid for whoring for PayBase is due to the fact that sig campaigns net positive cash flow for the people running the campaigns, right? Ergo, your shilling is indeed putting money in PayBase's pocket. If not, they'd not be paying you for it. You are influencing others to believe in the scam. Whether or not you are _trying_ to do so is irrelevant.


No. Generally I stay away from scammy entities. Mostly by investing in only things I have researched fully. And I have scant little time for research. This may cause me to pass up some meaningful opportunities for profit, but I am fine with that. AAR, the evidence of GawMiners, PayCoin, and PayBase being scams has been overwhelming from their inception. Accordingly, I have invested nothing in them.

...and with that, I have unintentionally dragged this way off topic. Sorry to all. I shant respond again, except if in another thread.

Just ... think about it, won't you?

I suggest you to calm down.

Bitcoin is not an investment. Bitcoin is a digital currency which allow you to make a transaction with any person around the world with no 3rd party companies operating your transaction.

If you look at the Bitcoin only in a matter of a value/price - then I am sorry.

Bitstamp problem is a problem but Bitstamp is only an exchange which will perhaps recover and work again. Indeed there is a problem with security around the Bitcoin world but don't leave this Bitcoin world only because of some issues.

We are in the experimental stage and shit will happens sometimes

Kind regards.

this whole BTC shit are starting to get annoying.
Im cashing out all my bitcoins soon before it gets to 200$ and before coinbase lose 20,00000 bitcoin something like that
f this shit I'll just invest in metals

I must say that I feel really sorry for Bitstamp.

Also I have many questions their security.

Second biggest Bitcoin exchange in the world lost 19k of BTC.

There is no any safe exchange out there and we will need to wait few years to make it happen if this is ever possible.

This is kinda nothing new and we all know it. Just it is a little bit sad.

Life goes on! So it's Bitcoin.

According to latest speculation, here is the exact value => https://blockchain.info/address/1L2JsXHPMYuAa9ugvHGLwkdstCPUDemNCf

Yeah its really weird that the used "less than 19k BTC" its been a few days..n they could have posted the exact value..if they r so called transparent. less than 19k BTC means it could just be 0.5BTC or even 0..lol.! who knows?

Anyone want to buy 18,871.69541682 BTC 

I think this was an attempt to drive the price of bitcoin further into mud, I foresee many attacks on Bitcoin this year.

I've always liked Bitstamp, but that's insane

They have to close down the site, since they don't know, how far the hack goes. Maybe the system is still compromised and newly added Bitcoin would go to the hacker. At least the Bitcoin from the compromised addresses are no longer in full control of Bitstamp.
Makes sense to me to close down their whole system.

Ok fine. You are unconcerned that -- in some little part perhaps due to your shilling -- someone somewhere might actually get taken to the cleaners by using Paybase. It is good to know this about you. Unsettling, disturbing, depressing maybe even - but good to at least know this about you. I shall likely remember. As should all reading this.

mmhh hmmm... surely, you're aware that the voices claiming that they are unable to withdraw from PayBase are are increasing in volume? Nevermind the fact that all evidence (e.g. 96% premine, not accepting Paycoin for their own products, ...) points to Paycoin being a classic Ponzi.

i don't know what the exact story is but please take every bitcoin news with a grain of salt.
these "hack"/"theft" could well be a set up done by banksters, fear mongering is all they have to slow down the inevitable btc mass adoption.
the W twin brother were vouching for bitstamp, the whole W brothers mainstream coverage is shady imo.
developers out there needs to focus on finding easy way for people to store their bitcoin offline/paper wallet and exchanges needs to be decentralized.
think about this : if bitstamp owner had enough funds to cover the loss why would he publicly post the exact amount of btc "stolen" ? press coverage...
he could have closed site temporarily with another excuse and meanwhile transfer cold storage to hot wallet so no one suspect anything
this story doesn't add up

do you have any proof before making everyone pessimistic? if not just shut up

Get up guys, you have been Goxed

Damn , That's a huge amount of Money they lost , I feel sorry for people who lost their money.
btw what Bitsmap exactly ? I never used it to be honest but I see a lot of people speaking about it , I know some people use it to check the price of BTC but I use preev.com  , is it some kinda of exchange cryptoo currency websites like Allcoin ?   

... says the person whoring out his sig space to PayBase.

just sayin'

I hope we wont hear about another willy bot that was driving the price up and the lost BTC never actually existed except from Bitstamp book.

p.s. I have seen an address with 18k+ BTC is doing rounds. Would love to see a source where Bitstamp really says that those are the stolen BTC => https://blockchain.info/address/1L2JsXHPMYuAa9ugvHGLwkdstCPUDemNCf

That's like saying why don't traders withdraw money as soon as they're done trading on their Schwab or Interactive Brokers account.

Yes, Gox happened, and now this, but this type of thing should never ever happen to a legitimate operation.

It's this type of Mickey Mouse/amateur hour shenanigans that continues to give Bitcoin a bad name.

With trading there's always risk involved obviously, but at the same time, that's like saying you'll cash out all your chips at the Casino after 1 or 2 bets only...it's not realistic.  Accounts should've been secured.  Period.

That said, if this is now the norm with Cryptocurrency-centric exchanges, the emergence of decentralized exchanges may have a boost this year...

I hope it's not an inside job! 

again lack of security....

Bitsyamp is very big cpmpany
they can pay 19.000 btc easly
allright if they want..

Oh my god thats a lot of BTC hope this guy gets caught somehow

To trade with, obviously. In my case, I have $$$ on the exchange- you leave it there so that you can buy coins. You have to expose yourself to some risk. Any other day I wouldn't have had anything on stamp but- we all get unlucky sometimes.......

That's just their way to attract people

haha yes, its good for us

I think the same. It's obvious that there are not too many orders lately, real orders not fake transactions and the admins may think :

" it is time to close. How much money do we have? xx millions. Ok, it is enough to spend our life without problems from now on"

https://blockchain.info/address/1L2JsXHPMYuAa9ugvHGLwkdstCPUDemNCf

I don't think the problem is security..it's the admins/ceo's stealing the money.

those big exchange always end up like this, with all the money they made, they can at least make a better secure system, instead we have gox 2.0

hahaha

He is laughing in his mind. "Fools, you made me RICH"   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915056.0;all

At least when they disclose the amount, it shows that they are transparent. Hopefully they can recover back and continue to remain in operation.

VC money is not supposed to cover loss. They are supposed to be used to give better return. I'm not sure if that can be used to cover stolen funds from customers.

i think they have enough resources to cover that loss. they made millions in fees since they got online (+VC money)

Source: https://www.bitstamp.net

Can they cover it from their cold storage ? 19,000 BTC is equivalent to more than 5 million USD at current market price.