Topic: Bitstamp - wanted to withdraw money and was hit with these weird KYC questions (Read 17463 times)

For provided services for which Bitcoin is received. (part of Bitstamp KYC)

Invoices for what?

Hi,
please how to answer bitstamp when they want one to show recent invoices? What are the legal/TOS compliant answers i can use while not providing any invoices?

You can trade at bitstamp without using bitstamp with bitfinex, even if they started asking some questions too for fiat withdrawals.

To be fair it's pretty standard in the UK for online casinos and payment processors (Neteller) to use the credit system for AML checks (or, basically, checking your address matches the address you gave them). These CRA searches are fairly benign, especially in this instance because you're not applying for credit. They drop off your file in 12 months. Must agree though, I wouldn't personally want any searches from a Bitcoin exchange on my searches. Bitstamp don't need to do this because the customer has to verify his/her address using documentation.

Really? They become less and less sexy a prospect by the minute.

Could be worse, you could go with coinfloor who checks your credit rating, leaving a nice BITCOIN mark on your file for all banks to see.

I agree, it probably is a bit over the top. Personally I'd much rather that they were going too far than not far enough. There are many other legitimate exchanges though and if this pushes a few customers from Stamp to somewhere like Kraken, so much the better. The fact that they're asking these questions for deposits too (and will reverse the deposit if info is not provided) shows they're not pulling a Gox.

I'm not so sure. Asking for tax returns and wage slips is several degrees beyond acceptable in my opinion. I've never heard of any other business asking for that type of information.

Non-thread.

If you don't like it, don't use them. If you're withdrawing large amounts using a shady exchange, be prepared for your bank or LA to ask you much more searching questions instead.

I got the funds credited to my account after two days after replying to KYC if anyone is wondering.

Done with the same process recently. Got the KYC after depositing a small amount of around 300 euros. Replied to every question, giving my salary receipts etc.

How long does it usually take for the process to finish for those of you who already did it?

Does BTC-E ask the same shit?

I don't want to put my coins when I'm ready to sell them, and then get all this stupid questions and have my money frozen...

Fuck, that's tough.

Tried to deposit Fiat at Bitstamp, but after several weeks of Q&A i just told them to sent my funds back.

They reacted promptly and it lasted 5 days and the funds were back.

Thanks for the info.
So as a EUR user, you are basically down to Kraken and bitcoin.de if you need some quick Fiat?

still happening.

got some k euro fiat frozen on the way in.
not happy.

What are the current experiences? Are they still doing this stuff and delaying Fiat payouts? Haven`t tried it yet.

Here's how I'd answer...


On the Internet.


The same as the purpose of trading.


My bitcoins were deposited from bitcoin-qt without specifying inputs, so I have no idea of the origin of the specific bitcoins that I believed I was safely depositing on your exchange. I'm pondering a way to approximate the percentage of bitcoins in my wallet that are mined, but given the amounts moved back and forth from various bitcoin sites, always leaving the inputs up to the software, this would be a very difficult and extremely time-consuming research project that I'm not willing to waste my time on unless your fear of the thieving thugs that call themselves "government" is so great that you're going to block my money on the grounds of not producing a chain of custody for my bitcoins.


Between early 2011 and the date of the last deposit to your site. How? Buying and mining... Are there any other ways?


Trading?


Withdrawing all my coins and never doing business with you again.


Yes. All my coins. Because of this bullshit that I'm replying to right here.


The one that's already registered in my account.

how long did it took until they responded?

haha
made my day...

I have answered them to this questions , and my account got " Login Temporarily Disabled " .. it appears that the login is disabled because of ssl cert issues...

Very disappointing because I liked the exchange, looks like I will have to move  on to another one...

It`s one year and yes, it`s still true, but I guess it only applies to german residents, it`s not enough to use a german marketplace (bitcoin.de is NOT an exchange, but a p2p marketplace!).
If you are in the EU, go for Kraken. They have some issues as well (see the forum threads) but are responsive and transparent.

I wonder if Germany still has these laws that say you don't need to pay taxes on bitcoin investments older than 2 years or something.

I am still looking. I used a local service to withdraw a small amount but the prices there aren't very good. I have verified account in kraken I might try them. And yes I also heard that bitcoin.de is very good service. For now I am just trying to see what works best.

That's cool! Where are you planning to do your bitcoin business now? I was advertised bitcoin.de, do you think it would do?

A small update from me. They agreed to cancel the sepa withdrawals and send me the bitcoins. Now I got back my bitcoins and I am done with bitstamp. I deactivated my account and just hope that they will delete the scans of my id card.

Lies, all Bitcoin users are going to just disappear, you know how this ends.

It's not a big conspiracy folks, calm down.

I've got the same questions, I did answer every single one, although I know that some of the questions just doesn't make any sense but I needed the cash so I had to do what they asked me to do, after I submitted the answers I got my money after a couple of days.

I have no problem with answering the questions as long as it is legitimate and will get me my money, I understand that they are heavily regulated and they have to ask this to cover them selves.


just to point something out, the account verification is a KYC (know your customer), so they have to know who you are to let you use their service, and these questions are AML (anti money laundering) so if they see a suspicious activity or a large withdrawal or a large deposit they proceed with them, and yes it does happen even when you deposit a large amount of money.

just take it easy, if you are not doing any illegal activities then you have nothing to be afraid off.

It is almost scamish to let you fund your account, but not let you withdraw.

The crappy part is waiting till you are ready to withdraw to hit you with this. They should have done their KYC before funding your account. 

realcoin, you have every right to be concerned about those issues. i do not want to give the impression that i am defending stamp. exchanges can fail.

I suggest to write them and ask them what alternative id document you could use. they are usually answer pretty fast.

some friendly, short description of your situation. and sending that stuff is mandatory if you want to deal with them i guess.

They got me for $6000 right now but that made me laugh

Hello, I am new here but not new to bitcoin. I used mtgox for almost 2 years but with their recent problems I switched to bitstamp. I made several successful transactions with them but now they are asking me these same questions all of you received. I don't know what to do. I answered the best way I could, on questions 4 and 5 telling them that I will probably stop using them from now on. They want me to send them a scanned image of my international passport but I don't have one (which idiot came up with these demands?). Now I wonder what should I do. I have $7580 in there pending to be processed and this is a lot of money for me. I see some of you got this resolved in one week, did you send any documents or you just answered the questions? Thanks for any help.

bitstamp boss: well, i am getting nervous about all the regulation heat. what should we do ?

lawyer: hell, no one knows, there laws aren´t made yet.

bitstamp boss: so better do nothing ?

lawyer: hell, no - you need to give at least the impression you are doing something.

bitstamp boss: but what ?

lawyer: listen, it doesn´t matter, just have a meeting with your staff and pick out someone to come up with some kyc questions and send those out to anyone who wants to get more than several thousand dollars per month. better pick some idiot, so you can blame the stupidity of the questions if the shit hits the fan.

Thats not the answer to my question! I am not against Bitstamp!
I just want to know more about the details! because if we get exactly the same bureaucracy as in the usual  banking market, and even more, because Bitcoin became or was THE money-laundering outfit from the very beginning, than we can just shut down BTC.
Nobody needs a buggy, high speculative, money-laundering, pseudo currency! Which lets became you a potential criminal... only because you own some coins of it.

Questions:
1.  developed Bitstamp this KYC questions alone, by itself?
2. Who developed the KYC questions? a company consulting agency like global datamining corp http://www.gbgplc.com/products/id3global/ with whom Bitstamp is working together?
3. how fit the KYC questionnaire to the laws and legal obligations?
4. etc

it would surprise me very very much if an exchange like bitstamp has not already given all data they have to authorities. or at least they will if asked.

If they just ask these questions but will send the money anyway then I'd have no problem with that. However, with this topic I'm starting to prefer other means of bitcoin-to-fiat conversion. I wonder how much fiat fits into these Bitcoin ATMs and does localbitcoins ask you these questions?

imagine being the boss of stamp. all these millions jumping around. you know that you a lot of enemies in the EU bureaucracy /banking elite / lawmakers /etc..   would you rather just sit and wait what happens next or would you try to look and taste and smell as complaint as possible in advance.
they are acting responsible. they are protecting your funds.

Now I also want Bitstamp to die. Didn't had many coins there but left only 5 there. Anything more is a liability.

DEATH TO BITCOIN EXCHANGES!

I agree with the opinion about this questions. Some make sense, some downright audacious...
Agree too... But does Bitstamp need this downright audacious question too? I cant imagine Bitstamp is doing it because of boredom! Got they forced to do this kind of KYC questionnaire by there bank, or the GCHQ because their UK based business entity Ltd.?


Or did ID3global some consulting in that way? What is going on behind the scene?

FYI: I just withdrew a six-figure USD balance and after vaguely answering Bitstamp's questions, the cash arrived in my account in less than a week.

All this is very normal in high risk industries. If anything being asked questions like this should make you feel more secure about using their service. It's the exchanges that don't ask these questions that you should be worried about as they are not planning ahead for regulation which is risky territory.

Thank you TheSmackDown!

PS: I have answered Bitstamp the questions and my withdraws have been resumed.

dont sound good at all, but i hv to be fair and bitstamp been ok most of the time and i got nothing to hide, i just find it weird and all else important thats wrong with the world.

The bank has made them do this, and they hv decided to take it on.

I hv to give it to Gox they hv some cock ups but they keep you secure and won't do you any wrong. You need ID and all the usual stuff, but I am starting to think they not so bad, and they did me a fiat GBP withdraw but i had to pay a percentage for a 5 day faster transfer. (Gox turned out to be a scam!!!!!!)

Obviously i like keep costs down and use bitstamp for cashing out as they are good at doing so. And i guess that arouses suspicion - just going about my normal business - so yeh there som thin v wrong with the world.

I think western union is just staying away from BTC and its not the exchanges fault, again the bank can say whatever they like and pull all the strings to get the thing working as they wish. we need our own bank. built on common sense and fairness.

Interesting that Western Union is blocking transfers to Bitstamp
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/western-union-refusing-wire-transfers-367873

Hello TheSmackDown, I read your answers and its good for you that you manage to pass trough .... how do you interpret :
INDEMNITYTo the full extent permitted by applicable law, You hereby agree to indemnify Bitstamp, and its partners against any action, liability, cost, claim, loss, damage, proceeding or expense suffered or incurred if direct or not directly arising from your use of Bitstamp's Sites, Your use of the Service, or from your violation of these Terms of Use

1000 USD

probably is same as the bank amounts, but only a little over 10k english money,

which my girlfriend could spend in a day shopping easily, on a watch and one dress

How much have you tried to withdraw? is there some certain amount that triggers this??

This is not a good sign indeed.... I also got the "We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:"

I been through the whole thing now ppl and will paste it below so u guys can make the same complaint and ask for the same info.
For the record i don't think bitstamp is such a bad company but they are using banking guidelines in a very gross manner and I am sure their bank is forcing this compliance as a condition of providing the banking service.

What we all need do is club together and find out who we all can collectively sue for giving/making these guidelines that can be grossly interpreted and that hv no substantial prove they are actually deterring fraud or money laundering. What is required is that people are who they say they are.

Check it out, edited for my security

"sorry gone as u all got it now."

I hope u get a good idea from the above ppl. We need stand up for our rights but against the correct people - namely whoever is the regulation maker - reason being - its v easy to prove in court that AML is based on corruption and does not prevent or deter crime. Anti fraud and crime prevention should in all fairness be implemented at the companies discretion to a certain min standard at least, that is ensuring people are who they say they are without being invasive or intrusive about their personal life or spending habits etc or it becomes like a mother or father state situation. Even communist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1whbjk/im_all_for_proper_kyc_but_bitstamp_this_is/

Is this happening consistently now or just to selected people?

I have never heard of any type of financial institution trying to go this deep. I have an account there. They can kiss my ring piece if they think they'll be getting that much info.

Yes go for it

What would happen if you bought back the BTC and withdrew them?

They do not only ask for question. They are asking documents. I really don't what documents is suitable.

"Thank you for your provided answers to our questionnaire. However, in order to be able to finalize the process, we would kindly ask you to please also send us any financial documentation, which can confirm how the funds you will be sending to your Bitstamp account were acquired."

What kind of financial documents can prove that?

When bitstamp started to require a verification for even the smallest amounts, they were dead for me. But what they do is... well, I can't even find the words. You should just cancel your account with bitstamp and they will have to pay out your money (or coins). As far as I can remember that worked when they added the verification thing but people didn't want to get verified to they canceled the account and got their money back. If they don't honor that you will have to sue them.

What you did was the totally correct thing. Did they even inform you about these changes in time? Whatever they do, they cannot withhold your money just because you don't want to answer weird questions. If is none of their business where their customers bitcoins came from (that might be different for Fiat tho). I suggest you give them all the information you would have to give then when you sue them, which is your name and address, date of birth and maybe location of birth (tho this is questionable). Basically not more than what is written on your ID card. Then gather proof regarding your payment to them (bitcoin TxIds, screenshots of their website) and/or bank statements. Tell them thats all they get (because it's all that has to be provided in order to sue them) and in the same message, cancel your account. Maybe send all that by traditional mail with tracking and see what they do. I am almost sure they will comply then. However, if they don't... you'll have to sue them =/

Sad to seen another exchange gone.

I hope you said "none".

they just told me basically they are boss and are not obliged but can ask for anything they see fit and do what they like. they are turning into a rubbish company with bad business ethics.

no bank asks those questions and even if they do, they can't refuse you a withdrawal of your own money. they just cancelled a fiat request withdraw as i said only my mother can ask me questions like that and no state, entity, or government can act like my mother or father.

bitstamp has bent over for the criminals who run the banking industry.

i am verified and do nothing illegal. but make good money as much as i can. crypto addict.

GB group aren't shady. They don't use the data for advertising. I've worked with GB group numerous times on a load of projects. They're a solid company.

I got the same questions; My responses:

1. Internet.
2. To trade Bitcoin.
3. My Bitcoin Wallet.
4. Somebody else's Bitcoin Wallet.
5. I think you know the answer to this one...
6. I will never use Bitstamp again.
7. See 6.
8. See 5

Bitstamp also contracts out ID verification to this huge global datamining corp http://www.gbgplc.com/products/id3global/
So when you send them your ID and ppwrk who knows how this is shared with other subscribers, if you can ever remove yourself from that database, if it's encrypted (probably not) and if they sell this information to advertisers (probably), and who knows what kind of shady state intel agencies get a free for all over the data because they offer "IQ the intelligence gathering tool".

I look forward to hearing whether they give you any trouble when you try to withdraw all your BTC without answering their questions.

Lol thanks for posting.

You shouldnt be coerced into providing answers to questions like these just to recieve what is yours.

Bitstamp seemed to be the most trustworthy exchange but with this alarm bells are ringing.

i am thinking of submitting this in response but i don't think it will get me anywhere,

1. BTC i found out about on the moon.
2. Purpose of trading is to lose as much coin as possible. Sell low, buy high.
3. Origin of BTC is moon dust particles.
4. I obtained many moons ago from the soil and mines on the moon.
5. I just like burning fiat currency when possible.
6. I plan to move away due to ignorant and insulting questions that relate to my privacy and or private business. That hv no relevance to anything but control and time wasting by banks.
7. Yes when i need money, i need withdraw it. When i buy a new porshe i will withdraw only $500. Nothing costs money anymore so i make withdrawals to burn fiat. Its my hobby.
8. I did provide a complete address and SWIFT code, for my own personal account with ..............

what you guys think ?!

Whoah, that's crazy.

Doesn't this essentially negate all the benefits of what bitcoins and alt currencies were created for?  If you have to prove/substantiate the origins of all of your bitcoins, then why even have them in the first place?

It's not like you walk into a dealership with a briefcase full of legit 1000 dollar bills to purchase a ferrari cash, and the dealership asks for record receipts of how you earned the money.

While I'm all for anti-fraud measures, this does seem quite extreme.  It's almost as though they're acting like the IRS and interrogating, which should not be the case if you are already fully verified with them and have been doing good business for some time.

I'm starting to think a lot of these companies are simply implementing 'additional security measures' not for the security, but to hold funds for an additional amount of time.

Thanks for the headsup though, looks like I'll be staying with coinbase.

there is more

"And now, problems from your company, i do not expect. What i do with my BTC or money is nobodies business but my own. The banking industry and protocols are used to keep people poor through bureaucracy, and antagonise people to death before they are allowed to be wealthy. Yes i agree with combatting fraud but believe me the banks hv sets of rules that are an excuse to vilify people and scrutinise them and insult their integrity."

THE EXACT SAME.

I made some large withdrawals many months ago, and the bank kept the money for 10 days.

Now i try withdraw a nice amount as i am running low on fiat. And bitstamp hit me with a load of silly questions.

I hv refused to answer such questions and said i will move all my coins and that they already hv my ID.
I also said i will sue anyone who has asked them to do this namely the bank, and they can see i hv quite a fair few coins in my account. I am thinking of moving them before they see the ticket, which i excerpt below tho its been edited for my security:

We can't stand for this people, and don't, know your rights. ID yes you can accept, but asking you things you may or may not care to hv records of is none of their business at the least.

"Are you being serious? Bitcoin is not supposed to be part of the banking system or centrally regulated as such.

I did not sign up to be scrutinised. I signed up to trade and make money. To trade BTC.

As you can see i sold at xxx, and re-bought at xxx, i am a trader, and bought my coins a long time ago.
If you don't like it, i can move my coins elsewhere and we can cease our relationship. I am a trader of crypto currencies full stop.

if we are going to hv problems due to a crafty disgusting banking system and banks in general are scammers using fraud and further excuses to scrutinise how and when people make money. Its not on. Pls reply as i expect my withdrawal to be processed as normal and hv no idea why you are asking such question unrelated to trading."

"I put all my saving in years ago, did arbs on Gox and all sorts to make money. And all my money is held in BTC and traded until i require it to live. Most people need money to live on, tell the dirty bank, that I am no different."

"I hv withdrawn to my personal xxxxxxx bank account. And they all hate BTC the banks in UK. Most do as they do not want to integrate it or respect its value or use."

"Pls tell me who is creating the issue here, as i am v much willing to sue them as i find it a nuisance and hinderance to my life. They hv no right to hinder trade in any way or the withdrawal of any profits. What if i had kept v little fiat money due to trading the ...................... on various exchanges. Then i am not allowed my money when i need it?

Its not on at all. Sorry. I find this very insulting indeed, especially from Bitstamp the proper BTC people.

I may just put all my coins on XXXe if u can't stand up for whats correct against the banks. Go ....................... or somewhere where they still respect a mans finances are private business.

Thats is what i am in process of doing as i am fed up of these government scammers fraudsters thieves the banks."

I am still dumbfounded by the KYC questionnaire. Again, ID and due diligence is one thing, but this is a bank asking them to take the piss with any new large transfers, probably because a lot of btc types like cash and privacy as a libertarian unalienable right.

TheSmackDown

Did you end up answering these questions? Did they let you withdraw?

I'm also curious about the USD amount you attempted to withdraw, if you don't mind sharing.

I used to work on AML and KYC implementation (as a web developer) for customers applying for fixed rate investment products for a number of European banks... and they didn't need this kind of information. Perhaps due to the fact they were only targeting UK customers, but even still................ this goes way above and beyond what they should actually need to know.

It's good to know it worked out ok for you, but I hope someone can find out if they would allow one to trade back to BTC and withdraw that without satisfying all their questions.

Yea, even if you're verified.  I guess it's for extra KYC data.  It's definitely ridiculous... but at least we know it's not a tactic to prevent withdrawals altogether.

Wait... you get this shit even if you're verified? I thought the whole point of verification was to satisfy AML/KYC demands? If so, why the Spanish Inquisition?

Update: I answered their questions and I'll say that I was not very specific at all.  I said that I received the coins after a relative said he'd invest some of my spare cash into bitcoin for me.  After that, the withdrawal of roughly $80k USD was successfully wired into my bank account.  I only had to wait a week.

Roughly how much have you tried to withdraw, have withdrawn lately?

Can you cancel the withdrawal and convert back to btc and withdraw from bitstamp or they just sit on your money?

If I were unable to answer all their questions to their satisfaction, would they just keep my money indefinitely, or would I be able to trade back to BTC and withdraw that?

Is Bitstamp the only exchange doing this?

They forgot the one about the airspeed velocity of an unladen sparrow...srsly tho, pretty gross stuff.

I would take my business to a different exchange if I were asked questions like that (glad that I'm not using bitstamp).

How would someone submit a receipt or invoice for a miner that was bought 2nd hand?

Or if someone mined with GPUs and sold them in June/July at the latest when it was no longer profitable to mine?

I don't think I'd be able to document the majority of my holdings as they were either GPU mined long ago, or earned from trading on now-defunct exchanges, or from offering goods or services to businesses or individuals whose identities I no longer know, or have never known.

I got this message on 1/8/2014, too.  I'd love to know if answering these questions actually helps in receiving my USD.

If I were asked that question, I wouldn't know how to answer them...
Bitcoins from mining, faucets, gambling, donated, giveaways and bounties all mixed together


How can they expect someone put a number on how many times they will withdraw in the future?

While I appreciate the idea behind this statement, they do need to cover their own asses just as you do. You can't simply say "I mined them." without being able to prove it, otherwise it invalidates the entire purpose of the survey. To me it looks as if they are trying to gather as much info as possible to soothe laundering concerns, yet still asking little enough to somewhat defend personal security.

If you really did mine the coins you should be able to show that they are relatively fresh from a coinbase tx. Most my coins only have one transaction, and that's from the well known pool to me. I'd argue that point if it were me.

If you don't like that, I believe coinbase has every right to tell you to take your business elsewhere.

It's even worse than that: after I answered all those questions, they asked for records relating to the purchase of those bitcoins. MtGox doesn't have records from 2011, and BitInstant isn't even operating anymore!!

I'm not sure what kind of records they'd want for in-person trades with people I haven't spoken to since.

Did anyone else receive such a message from support when they tried to withdraw money recently?


First of all, I exchanged money on Bitstamp exclusively since last spring. Withdrawals were less frequent during these last few months, but I had withdrawals both larger and smaller than the one I tried making now. I'm a verified customer with them.

Second, while some questions kinda sorta make sense, others are rather useless, redundant or impossible to address accurately. And some of their requests are downright audacious, not to mention grossly lacking respect to personal security. If I mine it's none of their goddamn business what the hell I mine with, what are the hardware specs and sure as hell they don't need to get invoices to every  piece of hardware I mine with.

So, anyone else?