Bittrex Fees - Anyone using Bittrex beware!

mrbittt

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

Ok I've finally solved the problem with the Bittrex fees and 8dp truncation etc. BTCBTC

Steps to reproduce:
1. See last order for BTC-POWER on the image below.
2. Notice how the LIMIT was 0.00002992 and the quantity is 99.903441.

The actual order came in at 0.00002993.
Multiplied together we get 0.002989111 BTC.
However Bittrex reports a total of 0.0029901.
The difference between 0.002989111 and 0.0029901 is 0.0000099 BTC.

So what is going on?
1. Bittrex is correctly returning the PricePerUnit (actual) as 0.00002992.
2. However you can't rely on this calculation: total price paid = PricePerUnit (actual) * total quantity.

Why? Because the PricePerUnit (actual) is probably more like 0.0000299299 and the last 99 have been truncated to make 0.00002992.
So 0.0000299299 * 99.903441 = 0.0029901 which is correct.
However 0.00002992 * 99.903441 = 0.002989111 which is incorrect (because we lost decimal places 9 and 10).

What's the solution?

1) Take Bittrex's reported PricePerUnit (actual) which is correct to 8 d.p. but don't make any calculations with it.
2) Take Bittrex's Price field as correct and use that as your total price paid in BTC.
3) Take Bittrex's CommissionPaid field as correct.

In summary: Since Bittrex truncates to 8.dp. any calculations taken off Bittrex's unit figures will be incorrect. Better to rely on Bittrex's own reported Price and CommissionPaid fields and work back from there to get unit figures (if you want to see more than 8 d.p).

https://dzwonsemrish7.cloudfront.net/items/0t0b0H3n0m2C100W0S3c/CryptoFlip.jpg

wanker

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

I just spent way too much time trying to figure out the answer to this question and I'm pretty sure I've got it.

1. Bittrex Fees are NOT always charged in the currency that is acquired. Fees are charged in the currency listed first on the Market. So, fees for the USDT-BTC market are charged in USDT, regardless of whether the transaction is a buy (Bid) or sell (Ask).

2. Cost/Proceeds are always expressed in the currency listed first on the Market regardless whether it's a buy or sell. If it's a buy, then the Cost/Proceeds will be negative since you are buying the Currency listed second in exchange for the Currency listed first. Therefore, the currency listed first will be debited from one's wallet. If it's a Sell then Cost/Proceeds will be positive, and thus credited to one's wallet.

2. Fees and Volumes for the currency listed first on the market are both always truncated (truncated) after 8 decimal places. My guess is that Bittrex does this so that it only ever needs to keep track of 8 decimal places for any currency held on its internal ledger, and therefore any currency volumes represented in an order (on the web page) are exactly as precise as the actual numbers.

3. Actual Rate differs from Bid/Ask rate because of this truncating.... At least this is one reason why the rate differs. Presumably it could also differ because an order is filled at a more favorable rate than the Bid/Ask.

Here's an example:
Market: USDT-ETH. Transaction: LimitBuy. 853.553 Units Filled: 0.05748706 Units Total: 0.05748706 Actual/Rate: 853.55299992 Cost/Proceeds: -49.19092315
So I'm attempting to buy 0.05748706 ETH for USDT at a Rate of 853.553 USDT/ETH. Since Fees are calculated in the market listed first, the fees will be taken out of the USDT, which is the currency I'm starting with. So I need to know how many dollars (X) will I need to exchange for 0.05748706 ETH if the Buy Rate is 853.553 USDT/ETH. The answer is: X = 0.05748706 ETH * 853.553 USDT/ETH = 49.06825252418 USDT. But Bittrex truncates this number after 8 decimal places. So Trunc(X) = 49.06825252 USDT

So I'm going to actually buy 0.05748706 ETH with 49.06825252 USDT NOT 49.06825252418 USDT and because of that, my actual rate will be different than my Bid rate. My actual rate will therefore be: 49.06825252 USDT / 0.05748706 ETH = 853.552999927288 USDT / ETH, but Bittrex also truncates the Actual Rate after 8 decimal places, so my Actual Rate is 853.55299992 USDT / ETH, which exactly matches what is expected.

Since USDT is listed first, the fee calculation is taken in USDT, which means its an additional expenditure to the USDT amount that I used in my exchange/buy - Trunc(X) = 49.06825252 USDT. So the Fee is:
0.0025*49.06825252 USDT = 0.1226706313 USDT, but the fee itself is also truncated after 8 decimal places, so the fee is 0.12267063 USDT

Finally, the Cost/Proceeds is calculated as the total USDT expended for the transaction plus fees: Cost/Proceeds = 49.06825252 USDT + 0.12267063 USDT = 49.19092315 USDT. It's represented as a negative number because USDT is debited from my wallet.

Interestingly, this means that in this example, you need to start with enough USDT to pay both the fees and to exchange for ETH since the fees are taken out from the currency expended and not from the currency acquired. I'm not sure what happens if you don't start with enough, but I would guess either Bittrex wouldn't let you do the trade or Bittrex would slightly decrease the amount of ETH you would acquire so that you would not need as much USDT to exchange and therefore would have some extra USDT to pay the fees.

___

A LimitSell would work similarly, but if we're selling ETH to acquire USDT then the fees would be deducted from the acquired USDT, since USDT is listed first on the USDT-ETH market. Again, the Actual Rate would differ from the Sell Rate due to truncating the amount of acquired USDT, and then recalculating the rate based on this truncating.

I've only traded on a few markets to draw these conclusions, so someone with more experience on other Bittrex markets might know otherwise, but this seems like what is going on.

leeloo

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: Bitman911 on June 16, 2017, 05:41:16 PM

Just wondering anyone else experiencing wrong figures or anyone can explain this to me.
I know its minor but these can big losses when you invested alot.

Can you post a screenshot of your Order History? Make sure to crop the screenshot so it doesn't show any personal information.

I just checked my last trade, and it quite accurately took 0.250% in fees. Exactly as it should be.

Quote from: leeloo on September 26, 2017, 05:13:37 AM

I suspect you posted the order at 0.00009494 but it got filled at a (better) 0.00009495 price because there was a bid for that price on the order book (somebody was willing to buy your coins for more than what you asked for).

This could explain it indeed. Don't assume the exact values you enter are what you sell/buy for, your order could also be partially filled at several different rates.
From Bitman911's example, I calculate 0.24% fee, so indeed it must have sold at a better rate than he asked for.
(7.61314167*0.00009495-0.00072106)/0.00072106=0.002507

Bitman911, once you're convinced Bittrex doesn't try to cheat you, please change the title of this thread to reflect your new findings.

leeloo

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Bitman911 on June 16, 2017, 05:41:16 PM

I sold 7.61314167 BAT @ 0.00009494 BTC = 0.00072279 BTC
Then .25% commision (0.00000181 BTC)
Therefore total price would be 0.00072279+0.00000181 = 0.00072460 BTC

But Bittres says cost/proceeds is 0.00072106 (so it's 0.00000354 out!)

I suspect you posted the order at 0.00009494 but it got filled at a (better) 0.00009495 price because there was a bid for that price on the order book (somebody was willing to buy your coins for more than what you asked for).

The commission is always deducted from the currency you acquire: 7.61314167 * 0.00009495 * (1 - 0.0025) = 0.00072106063, which is exactly 0.00072106 when truncated to 8 decimals (which it seems is how they get rid of the extra decimals).

Reference: https://support.bittrex.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000199651

Quote from: Bitman911 on June 16, 2017, 05:41:16 PM

I bought them for no more than a week 7.61314167 BAT @ 0.00009000 BTC = 0.00068518 BTC
Then .25% commision (0.00000171 BTC)
Therefore total price would be 0.00068518 + 0.00000171 = 0.00068690

But bittrex says cost/proceeds is -0.00068689 (so 1 statoshi out)

If you received 7.61314167 BAT after the fees paid, you must've received 7.61314167 / (1 - 0.0025) = 7.632222226 before fees, and 7.63222222 * 0.00009000 = 0.0006868999998, which checks out.

Would I be Bittrex, I always rounded fees up to the nearest satoshi (or its altcoin equivalent), but it seems they figured let's just truncate the numbers.

PeterWalker

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

I have the same issue with Bittrex. Cannot figure out the numbers in the trade history.
I bought some CloakCoin today and in the "My Order History" table it shows as this

BID/ASK	UNITS FILLED CLOAK	UNITS TOTAL CLOAK	ACTUAL RATE	COST / PROCEEDS
0.00132105 Nero1337 newbie Activity: 1 Merit: 0 Re: Bittrex Fees - Anyone using Bittrex beware! August 21, 2017, 08:41:10 AM #2 You should subtract the fee from your proceeds instead of adding it. You pay the fee, you don't earn it. I guess thats whats wrong in your calculation. Bitman911 newbie Activity: 1 Merit: 0 Re: Bittrex Fees - Anyone using Bittrex beware! June 16, 2017, 05:41:16 PM #1 Hello, Just joined today and never participated in forums before so hope everything was correct! Bittrex says they have a '0.25%' commission on a trade. I was just testing the waters with a minor trade and get used to using it and make money. I sold 7.61314167 BAT @ 0.00009494 BTC = 0.00072279 BTC Then .25% commision (0.00000181 BTC) Therefore total price would be 0.00072279+0.00000181 = 0.00072460 BTC But Bittres says cost/proceeds is 0.00072106 (so it's 0.00000354 out!) I bought them for no more than a week 7.61314167 BAT @ 0.00009000 BTC = 0.00068518 BTC Then .25% commision (0.00000171 BTC) Therefore total price would be 0.00068518 + 0.00000171 = 0.00068690 But bittrex says cost/proceeds is -0.00068689 (so 1 statoshi out) Just wondering anyone else experiencing wrong figures or anyone can explain this to me. I know its minor but these can big losses when you invested alot. Thanks in advanced! Pages: Bitcoin Forum>Economy>Marketplace>Service Discussion>Exchanges Jump to: © 2020, Bitcointalksearch.org

Topic: Bittrex Fees - Anyone using Bittrex beware! (Read 12452 times)