Blockchain could be illegal in the European Union.

cryptojac17

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Quote from: Rugosa on April 29, 2018, 01:46:09 PM

Sounds like this is going to impact the block based business a lot more than the extant chains. Although, knowing how the EU is, I could easily see them using this as precedence to start making a mess of things regarding all blockchain tech.

I doubt the people would stand for just getting their rights to moneys totally removed. But its really easy to strip people of their rights when you do it too slow to notice.

In a democratic country which is there is a free enterprise we could not say bitcoin is illegal, if tt the government banned bitcoin like EU countries it just like curtailing thier freedom and right to possess something which is not fully defind if it's illegal or not.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. On the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It is one of its main characteristics, which makes it so reliable.

Many companies have been developing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will be up to €20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

It seems this won’t affect bitcoin and cryptos, as the law only applies to companies, and blockchain in these cases is held by individuals.

More info:

https://iapp.org/news/a/blockchain-technology-is-on-a-collision-course-with-eu-privacy-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

This is really another angle to look at things which is that despite the numerous advantages that blockchain technology offers, this particular issue of not been able to correct once it has been entered is something that calls for concern because as a machine, it will only bring out what is made as input into it and because humans are the ones responsible for such, there is bound to be error. I want to imagine the amount of issues that would be faced by the cashier in the store who made mistake in entering the amount of groceries and there is nothing that can be done about it. Or the old midwife who could not see clearly without her glasses had to enter a wrong date as date of birth of a future president and this could not be corrected, or a the final result of a student entered as the wrong grade that could not be corrected again.

While I am not against the development of blockchain and not totally supporting this new law, there is also more to be done to some concessions to legitimate errors that could happen in the course of using the technology.

Rugosa

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Sounds like this is going to impact the block based business a lot more than the extant chains. Although, knowing how the EU is, I could easily see them using this as precedence to start making a mess of things regarding all blockchain tech.

I doubt the people would stand for just getting their rights to moneys totally removed. But its really easy to strip people of their rights when you do it too slow to notice.

Snaic

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This, in general, is a very good decision of the European Union. It is aimed at protecting citizens from the illegal and unauthorized use of their personal data by other people. It can not be said that such a decision will negatively affect the crypto currency or its blockchein technology. Blockchein does not contain personal data of citizens, therefore, fears for it have no real basis. In general, the countries of the European Union and its governing bodies are very positive about blockchein technology and intend to use it for the safe storage of their databases in other cases.

Tigorss

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Since the Paris attacks, digital currencies and the use of encryption have been targeted by authorities for allegedly being used for illegal activities. This document is considered a response to the attacks that have occurred, and the EU Commission wants monitoring of bank transfers across the EU region.

Oceat

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Quote from: t2yax on April 17, 2018, 07:12:43 AM

Blockchain for now is not that kind of legal thing. We know why blockchain is not yet legal, bitcoin is not yet legal too. Thiskind of scenario is a vice versa thing. We cannot legalized blockchain if bitcoin is not yet legal too. We can say that bitcoin and blockchain would be legal, but we cannot say when will be the best time to legalized the two.

Why would a European Union disagree to blockchain since it is just only a ledger for every transactions of Bitcoin. Some of them manage to make a new blockchain for the type of token they wanted, they create their own in order to change something that any other blockchain has been done. They may not legalized Bitcoin but they should allow blockchain to be legal unless it is against to their rules, well i'm sure everyone would understand that situation.

Vektrum

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. On the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It is one of its main characteristics, which makes it so reliable.

Many companies have been developing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will be up to €20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

It seems this won’t affect bitcoin and cryptos, as the law only applies to companies, and blockchain in these cases is held by individuals.

More info:

https://iapp.org/news/a/blockchain-technology-is-on-a-collision-course-with-eu-privacy-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

Your conclusions about the fact that if the data in the blockchein block-chain are unchanged, and the European Union has adopted the norm in protection of the personal data of citizens who already have the right to demand the destruction of data about themselves, this will affect the blockchein technology so much that it can be banned , are not true. In the block-chain blockchein on contains information about the personal data of citizens, so this argument is incorrect. The European Union, on the contrary, is very positive about blockchein technology and is going to use it in its practice.

t2yax

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Blockchain for now is not that kind of legal thing. We know why blockchain is not yet legal, bitcoin is not yet legal too. Thiskind of scenario is a vice versa thing. We cannot legalized blockchain if bitcoin is not yet legal too. We can say that bitcoin and blockchain would be legal, but we cannot say when will be the best time to legalized the two.

KorakPawon

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which is most likely to affect the release of bitcoin tax in Europe. For legitimate taxpayers, Bitcoin income can be expressed at current rates in most places, and it is advisable to note Bitcoin transactions and vice versa, subject to tax laws in certain jurisdictions. In countries where Bitcoin is illegal, taxation is usually not considered in law as it should be prohibited.

Irvinn

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The new rules of the European Union are aimed at strengthening the protection of personal data of citizens and have nothing to do with blockchein and, even more so, the possibility of its prohibition. You misunderstand these rules. In general, these rules are very good, now it is unlikely that any ICO team registered in the European Union will be able to require the participants of the generosity campaign to pass the KYC test.
In addition, a few days ago, representatives of the European Union adopted new rules aimed at the full adoption of blockchein technology.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: cellard on April 13, 2018, 09:47:10 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted.

It was always incredibly retarded to me how anyone expects data to be found on the internet to somehow disappear completely forever. Once something hits the internet, it's there pretty much forever, and this was the case before the blockchain existed. What they want is just to find loopholes in where they can legislate against bitcoin.

It's just how suddendly we also saw the (old) news of how there was illegal pornography and drugs related stuff "on the blockchain", which means they could render it illegal in that basis.

It's just all trying to find ways to ruin bitcoin, too bad they can't.

In short they are still trying hard to do such thing but they do eventually failed and thats what i like with bitcoin or even into blockchain technology.I cant imagine how they would recognized this blockchain technology to be a bad thing or do give negative impressions to them.They are just really trying to find loopholes which they would able to have a reason for them to legislate it which same as you have said too.

Tapyaks72

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Quote from: cellard on April 13, 2018, 09:47:10 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted.

It was always incredibly retarded to me how anyone expects data to be found on the internet to somehow disappear completely forever. Once something hits the internet, it's there pretty much forever, and this was the case before the blockchain existed. What they want is just to find loopholes in where they can legislate against bitcoin.

It's just how suddendly we also saw the (old) news of how there was illegal pornography and drugs related stuff "on the blockchain", which means they could render it illegal in that basis.

It's just all trying to find ways to ruin bitcoin, too bad they can't.

They are looking for a loop hole because bitcoin and Blockchain technology is the clear and present danger to euro currency, how can they control a decentralized currency in this case, European monetary system is controlled and back up by the banking system.

cellard

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted.

It was always incredibly retarded to me how anyone expects data to be found on the internet to somehow disappear completely forever. Once something hits the internet, it's there pretty much forever, and this was the case before the blockchain existed. What they want is just to find loopholes in where they can legislate against bitcoin.

It's just how suddendly we also saw the (old) news of how there was illegal pornography and drugs related stuff "on the blockchain", which means they could render it illegal in that basis.

It's just all trying to find ways to ruin bitcoin, too bad they can't.

Basmic

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Interestingly, when officials came up with such a rule, they consulted with those who understand how the data is stored. All the data you provide through the Internet it is impossible to completely remove. I can offer them to adopt a law that next year in the EU people are obliged to live forever. It will be the same utopia.

Spaffin

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It is clearly illogical to construct an idea, because of what the conclusion does not come from the prerequisite of logical thinking. If many enterprises use blockchein in their work, and as a rule it is unchanged, this does not mean that blockchein can be banned due to the adoption of new rules in the European Union. Directly to blockchein technology this does not apply. In addition, recently, 22 countries of the European Union have adopted a joint statement where, on the contrary, it is indicated on the possibility of widespread introduction of blockchein technology.

ahmad21

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What the hell are you saying? The right to demand for change doesnt means that anyone could be given access to change records without any security or check. Even if you implement blockchain technology one could normally ask the holder to change any information. Data on blockchain to is changeable or atleast transferable so I dont think it will have absolutely any complications with legality of bitcoin. Blockchain technology is the game changer of tomorrow and there is no way you can change the same.

darkangel11

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People who are spreading this FUD don't know anything about laws and blockchain. First of all, like it was already said in the thread, blockchain doesn't store private data. This EU law is being made to prevent data selling and targeting customers against their will. Nowadays when you buy a product online, for instance clothes, your data can be sold to other stores who will send you promo codes, spam, catalogues and so on. It gives you the right to demand deletion, which right has already existed in most countries. This is simply a regulation made to equalize all these laws.
That said, some data can't be deleted. You can't demand a bank to delete your data and you will not be able to when this law comes to life. If it were to become possible people would be making new accounts every year and then request the right to be forgotten to avoid taxation.

Jemcrew

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. On the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It is one of its main characteristics, which makes it so reliable.

Many companies have been developing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will be up to €20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

It seems this won’t affect bitcoin and cryptos, as the law only applies to companies, and blockchain in these cases is held by individuals.

More info:

https://iapp.org/news/a/blockchain-technology-is-on-a-collision-course-with-eu-privacy-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

EUROPEAN UNION new regulation on data, which will come into effect in-may is structured on "The right to be forgotten", i. elizabeth. the justification to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. About the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It really is one of its main characteristics, rendering it so reliable.

A large number of companies have been producing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will depend on EUR20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

This seems this won't impact bitcoin and cryptos, as the law only does apply to companies, and blockchain in these cases is held by individuals.

Extra info:https://iapp.org/news/a/blockchain-technology-is-on-a-collision-course-with-eu-privacy-law/

Tigorss

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Bitcoin itself may not be more than just curiosity, but blockchain has a place for other uses, as it meets the standards of need for data storage trust, which is vital to any transaction. Dozens of startups are hoping to succeed in blockchain technology, either by using blockchain bitcoin, or by creating their own blockchain.

hacekd

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Eliminating Anonymity
Proposals to be filed by the EU Commission could mean the necessity for users of digital currency to register their identity on the currency buying and selling services. Similarly with a prepaid card, where the buyer must show his / her identity on the shop.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: botany on March 30, 2018, 01:35:36 AM

It does seem a bit far fetched now. Private companies, which decide to store personal data on a permissioned blockchain, can actually alter the blockchain by forking it, as long as all the nodes agree. In case of a court order, there should be no problem in that.

Which is precisely why the usefullness of private, permissioned blockchains is questionable. In the end they lose all the worthwhile properties of a blockchain -- including, effectively, immutability -- leading the concept of blockchains ad absurdum.

The upcoming data directive of the EU is merely yet another reminder why it makes no sense to try cramming blockchains all over the place. The blockchain use cases that "got lost" due to the upcoming EU directive were likely never viable in the first place.

Quote from: botany on March 30, 2018, 01:35:36 AM

I doubt if any company would be storing personal data (in its raw form) on a permissionless blockchain.

Would make for an interesting legal case though. Say you're a company that offers the service to store your personal data on a public, permissionless blockchain by offering a simplified user interface for the likes of OP_RETURN. Who has the legal responsibility over the data? The consumer that made use of the service or the service provider?

Quote from: botany on March 30, 2018, 01:35:36 AM

If you put the hash of personal data on the blockchain, I think it still might be acceptable and not in violation of EU laws.

Exactly.

botany

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. On the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It is one of its main characteristics, which makes it so reliable.

Many companies have been developing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will be up to €20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

It seems this won’t affect bitcoin and cryptos, as the law only applies to companies, and blockchain in these cases is held by individuals.

More info:

https://iapp.org/news/a/blockchain-technology-is-on-a-collision-course-with-eu-privacy-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

It does seem a bit far fetched now. Private companies, which decide to store personal data on a permissioned blockchain, can actually alter the blockchain by forking it, as long as all the nodes agree. In case of a court order, there should be no problem in that.
I doubt if any company would be storing personal data (in its raw form) on a permissionless blockchain. If you put the hash of personal data on the blockchain, I think it still might be acceptable and not in violation of EU laws.

countryfree

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I'm all in favor of strong personal data protection. Regulations shall not change because of some new data storage architecture. Nobody said that a blockchain would be better than a conventional MySQL database for storing personal data. Actually, only a very limited type of data would be better in a blockchain.

And when you think of it, the first millions of transactions in BTC's blockchain are crap. I made my first real transaction in 2015, and the hundreds of transactions I made before that were coming from faucets, or me playing by moving BTC from one wallet to another with different software. Crap! And don't forget the millions of spammy transactions we had last year.

The MySQL databases I'm running at work are much more efficient than any blockchain.

jseverson

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I could be wrong, but doesn't this just mean that you can't store any personal data on the blockchain? Bitcoin and other cryptos shouldn't be affected because transaction data isn't personally identifiable by default; you just know someone will challenge this in the future with a lawsuit though.

Either way, it's somewhat concerning because it's almost certainly going to limit the evolution of blockchain technology. I don't see regulators making a special case here either, because all abusers would have to do in that case is to move data to circumvent the entire law. I guess we just have to wait how things unfold.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 04:48:38 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on March 29, 2018, 03:29:02 AM

Which companies in this space actually do store personal data on a blockchain?

Quote from: Proton2233 on March 29, 2018, 04:27:43 AM

The use of blockchain does not require the provision of personal data.

That’s beyond my knowledge but the article mentions blockchain on contracts:

https://medium.com/crypto-currently/build-your-first-smart-contract-fc36a8ff50ca

land registries:

http://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/blockchain-and-land-registries-records-of-the-future/

and identity management:

https://www.ibm.com/blockchain/identity/

Storing personal data is not a prerequisite for smart contracts. The large majority of currently active smart contracts are working without the usage of personal data.

Land registries can decouple personal data from the property transactions to be stored on a blockchain.

Heck, even a digital identity can be established without storing personal data. Obviously not what IBM is striving for though.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: Beclecam on March 29, 2018, 02:51:13 AM

I think that is one reason the 2018 bitcoin market and cryptos are always down. I hope there is something that can change with the bitcoin market and cryptos grow as fast as the end of 2017.

It has nothing to do with the current bear market. This won’t affect cryptos, as I said before.

Quote from: HeRetiK on March 29, 2018, 03:29:02 AM

Which companies in this space actually do store personal data on a blockchain?

Quote from: Proton2233 on March 29, 2018, 04:27:43 AM

The use of blockchain does not require the provision of personal data.

That’s beyond my knowledge but the article mentions blockchain on contracts:

https://medium.com/crypto-currently/build-your-first-smart-contract-fc36a8ff50ca

land registries:

http://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/blockchain-and-land-registries-records-of-the-future/

and identity management:

https://www.ibm.com/blockchain/identity/

Proton2233

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The use of blockchain does not require the provision of personal data. After the Facebook scandal, I expect that the requirements for providing personal data will be significantly limited. Why cryptocurrency exchanges require such data if Fiat withdrawals to a Bank account. It is enough that banks have such data. I think cryptocurrencies will now be more confidential. Maybe it will be cancelled KYC requirements.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. On the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It is one of its main characteristics, which makes it so reliable.

Many companies have been developing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will be up to €20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

Which companies in this space actually do store personal data on a blockchain? Transactional data is not affected by this directive, which is what blockchains usually consist of. Transactional data can usually be decoupled from personally identifiable data.

Besides, it seems to only affect private, permissioned blockchains, which to me still looks more like snakeoil rather than a viable use case.

It does affect the handling of KYC/AML though. ICOs operating in the EU will need to be able to comply with this directive.

Beclecam

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on March 29, 2018, 12:41:26 AM

EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. On the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It is one of its main characteristics, which makes it so reliable.

Many companies have been developing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will be up to €20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

It seems this won’t affect bitcoin and cryptos, as the law only applies to companies, and blockchain in these cases is held by individuals.

More info:

https://iapp.org/news/a/blockchain-technology-is-on-a-collision-course-with-eu-privacy-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

I think that is one reason the 2018 bitcoin market and cryptos are always down. I hope there is something that can change with the bitcoin market and cryptos grow as fast as the end of 2017.

Don Pedro Dinero

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EU new regulation on data, which will come into effect in May is based on “The right to be forgotten”, i.e. the right to demand that personal data is modified of deleted. On the other hand, data on blockchains is unchangeable in practice. It is one of its main characteristics, which makes it so reliable.

Many companies have been developing blockchain-related projects, but as sanctions on the new law will be up to €20 million it is expected that those companies abandon such projects.

It seems this won’t affect bitcoin and cryptos, as the law only applies to companies, and blockchain in these cases is held by individuals.

More info:

https://iapp.org/news/a/blockchain-technology-is-on-a-collision-course-with-eu-privacy-law/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

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