Blockchain Data Suspends Now? | Bitcointalksearch.org

deepceleron

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Quote from: goldlyre on December 04, 2012, 11:06:31 PM

My Client says that the 210934 blocks already downloaded was from 54 minetes ago. Why? Is this normal? Thanks.

Quote from: goldlyre on December 04, 2012, 11:16:09 PM

I made two transactions one & half hours ago, but it still gets no confirmation. Huh

Quote from: deepceleron on November 24, 2012, 03:39:36 AM

Deepceleron's razor #17: If something is worth saying to a noob, deepceleron has probably already said it.

:

Quote from: deepceleron on October 24, 2012, 10:05:41 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on October 17, 2012, 07:48:38 PM

it just took 90 minutes to confirm it was a good tx.

I wonder that the odds are for a 90min block?

imagine we get really unlucky and hit a 3 year block Cheesy

Assuming a constant hashrate:
-The probability that a block won't be found after 10 minutes is 50%, or .5.
-The probability that a block won't be found after 20 minutes is .5 * .5 = .5 ^ 2 = 25%.
-The probability that a block won't be found after 90 minutes is .00195, 0.2%, indicating 1-in-512 blocks can be expected to take 90 minutes or more (averaging about one in four days with long-term sampling)
-The probability that a block won't be found after one day of mining is .5 ^ 144 = 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000005%

Blazr

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 11:35:53 PM

Quote from: Blazr on December 04, 2012, 11:34:33 PM

Miner's can include whatever transactions they like. They can choose to included no transactions in a block if they like, and there are plenty of 0 1 transaction blocks in the blockchain.

FYPFY. How/when does a miner decide what to include in their block? Feel free to link me to another source that explains this clearly.

Good point, it needs to have the generation transaction included.

How do miners choose their own transactions? Well, they can modify their mining software's source code & make it use whatever rules they like themselves (only include my transactions, only include transactions that paid a 1BTC fee etc etc).

A while ago there was a Botnet mining Bitcoins, and in order to reduce the amount of network resources it was using to make the mining software less noticeable, it didn't include any transactions in its block except for the block reward.

DannyHamilton

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Furthermore, the bitcoins a miner earns are only valuable so long as the bitcoin network continues to be used. If all (most?) miners started intentionally creating nothing but empty blocks, people would eventually be turned off from bitcoin, and the coins that the miners earned would become worthless. It is in the miners financial interest to do what they can to keep the bitcoin system desirable.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: mccorvic on December 05, 2012, 12:01:25 AM

I know I said that was my last q, but I lied I guess. What prevents a condition where a large % of the pools/big miners only accepting super-high fee transactions or 1 transaction blocks? Obviously having a network only support 6 transactions an hour is no good.

Sorry, but my whole world is now up turned with all this new knowledge.

Financial incentive. It takes a minimal amount of effort to include additional transactions. If those additional transactions have fees, and you as a miner choose not to include them, then you are essentially giving money away to your competitors who will now have the option to add those transactions to their blocks so that they can have the fees.

mccorvic

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I know I said that was my last q, but I lied I guess. What prevents a condition where a large % of the pools/big miners only accepting super-high fee transactions or 1 transaction blocks? Obviously having a network only support 6 transactions an hour is no good.

Sorry, but my whole world is now up turned with all this new knowledge.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:49:41 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 11:45:17 PM

Every pool is different. The bitcoind has RPC calls which can be used to control which tx are included in the block creation. My understanding is that major pools use completely custom code to generate the block and merkle tree.

OK, one last Q and my curiosity will be satisfied. I know that if I pay fees the I get processed faster and the miners get the fees, but why does the miner care at all besides actually getting said fees. The benefit of only including transactions with fees include and ignoring others is what? Fast mining time for the miner? On principle alone?

I ways always under the assumption that the bitcoin system had fees=faster hardcoded into it, which I now know is wrong.

One reason is propagation delay. Larger blocks take longer to propagate the network and it could cause the miner/pool to lose a race condition. Thus making a giant block of free and nearly free tx is a losing proposition in the long run. (revenue increases by say 0.000001% but chance of getting an orphan and losing everything increases by 1%).

Another reason is principal. Eventually the network will need to be supported by fees.

Another reason is fairness. If space is limited it makes sense to include those who (by their action) indicate their tx are high priority.

mccorvic

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 11:45:17 PM

Every pool is different. The bitcoind has RPC calls which can be used to control which tx are included in the block creation. My understanding is that major pools use completely custom code to generate the block and merkle tree.

OK, one last Q and my curiosity will be satisfied. I know that if I pay fees the I get processed faster and the miners get the fees, but why does the miner care at all besides actually getting said fees. The benefit of only including transactions with fees include and ignoring others is what? Fast mining time for the miner? On principle alone?

I ways always under the assumption that the bitcoin system had fees=faster hardcoded into it, which I now know is wrong.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:41:25 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 11:39:33 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:37:04 PM

Quote from: Blazr on December 04, 2012, 11:34:33 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

Miner's can include whatever transactions they like. They can choose to included no transactions in a block if they like, and there are plenty of 0 transaction blocks in the blockchain.

How/when does a miner decide what to include in their block? Feel free to link me to another source that explains this clearly.

Well there is no source because a miner can use whatever criteria they want. They could never include any transactions, they could include all transactions, they could include only paying transactions, they could only include transactions from their friends and/or prostitutes, they could only include tx who's has ends with a 6, etc.

In the case of pools (with the exception of p2pool) the miner is just a dumb hasher. The block creation (and tx selection) is done at the pool level. Most pools include a mix of paying and free transactions and have their own internal rules on how many transactions they will accept.

But how do they actually do it? Program into their miner a line saying "Only include X" which is used when they get a block? Or do they get the block and then pick and choose?

Every pool is different. The bitcoind has RPC calls which can be used to control which tx are included in the block creation.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1313405

My understanding is that major pools use completely custom code to generate the block and merkle tree.

mccorvic

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 11:39:33 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:37:04 PM

Quote from: Blazr on December 04, 2012, 11:34:33 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

Miner's can include whatever transactions they like. They can choose to included no transactions in a block if they like, and there are plenty of 0 transaction blocks in the blockchain.

How/when does a miner decide what to include in their block? Feel free to link me to another source that explains this clearly.

Well there is no source because a miner can use whatever criteria they want. They could never include any transactions, they could include all transactions, they could include only paying transactions, they could only include transactions from their friends and/or prostitutes, they could only include tx who's has ends with a 6, etc.

In the case of pools (with the exception of p2pool) the miner is just a dumb hasher. The block creation (and tx selection) is done at the pool level. Most pools include a mix of paying and free transactions and have their own internal rules on how many transactions they will accept.

But how do they actually do it? Program into their miner a line saying "Only include X" which is used when they get a block? Or do they get the block and then pick and choose?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:37:04 PM

Quote from: Blazr on December 04, 2012, 11:34:33 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

Miner's can include whatever transactions they like. They can choose to included no transactions in a block if they like, and there are plenty of 0 transaction blocks in the blockchain.

How/when does a miner decide what to include in their block? Feel free to link me to another source that explains this clearly.

Well there is no source because a miner can use whatever criteria they want. They could never include any transactions, they could include all transactions, they could include only paying transactions, they could only include transactions from their friends and/or prostitutes, they could only include tx who's has ends with a 6, etc.

In the case of pools (with the exception of p2pool) the miner is just a dumb hasher. The block creation (and tx selection) is done at the pool level. Most pools include a mix of paying and free transactions and have their own internal rules on how many transactions they will accept.

mccorvic

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Quote from: Blazr on December 04, 2012, 11:34:33 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

Miner's can include whatever transactions they like. They can choose to included no transactions in a block if they like, and there are plenty of 0 transaction blocks in the blockchain.

How/when does a miner decide what to include in their block? Feel free to link me to another source that explains this clearly. Or don't if you don't want to Cheesy

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Blazr on December 04, 2012, 11:34:33 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

Miner's can include whatever transactions they like. They can choose to included no transactions in a block if they like, and there are plenty of 0 1 transaction blocks in the blockchain.

FYPFY.

Blazr

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Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

Miner's can include whatever transactions they like. They can choose to included no transactions in a block if they like, and there are plenty of 0 transaction blocks in the blockchain.

mccorvic

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 11:28:27 PM

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

It is up to the miner to include any or all transactions which are in the memory pool (unconfirmed transactions). Did you include a tx fee? Can't really complain about free service not being "next block".

Heh, I wasn't complaining. I'm not sitting on any transactions. Just surprised at only 13 being in the block.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: mccorvic on December 04, 2012, 11:26:10 PM

My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

It is up to the miner to include any or all transactions which are in the memory pool (unconfirmed transactions). Did you include a tx fee? Can't really complain about free service not being "next block".

mccorvic

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My question: Why does block 210935 which was found like 1.5 hours after the previous block only containing 13 transactions? That seems odd to me.

goldlyre

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 11:17:31 PM

210935 was created 3 minutes ago but at the time of your post the oldest block (210934) was over 1 hour old. Remember block generation is random so while the AVERAGE interval between blocks is 10 minutes it isn't that unusual to see a 1 minute or 60 minute block interval. 2 hour block intervals are pretty rare but still happen occasionally.

Thank you so much. I'm a newbie in this field.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

210935 was created 3 minutes ago but at the time of your post the oldest block (210934) was over 1 hour old. Remember block generation is random so while the AVERAGE interval between blocks is 10 minutes it isn't that unusual to see a 1 minute or 60 minute block interval. 2 hour block intervals are pretty rare but still happen occasionally.

goldlyre

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I made two transactions one & half hours ago, but it still gets no confirmation. Huh

goldlyre

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My Client says that the 210934 blocks already downloaded was from 54 minetes ago. Why? Is this normal? Thanks.

Topic: Blockchain Data Suspends Now? (Read 1259 times)