Topic: Blockchain Tech has been Severely Oversold (Read 242 times)

depends on the scenario.
bitcoin is not actually only about PoW as its only 'security' feature.
the whole detail of: hashes are made from the data and the hashs can then verify other peoples chain of events by just swapping hashes, is one other security feature. as it then means you dont need to constantly send whole blocks of data just to compare. you can just keep local copies and compare the hash.

EG if we both have the blockchain upto the same height. i dont need to send you all my data for you to compare. i can just send you my the latest blockhash. which if we have the same data would match
heck. if you are 20 blocks behind me. i can just find my blockheight-20. and send that hash and you can see if what you have so far is right

yep i can send you 32bytes of hash, to confirm we both have the same 385gb of data without sending my 385gb of data

yes bitcoins blockchain could locally store block data in many database formats. but whats crucial is still the blockchain part. not the database used to store the in-block data.

no one cared when the local database format changed for storing data. but every year there are large debates about people trying to break the blockchain parameters.. because the blockchain parameters are more important than how the in-block data is stored

The first thing that you should check with blockchain projects is if that they are actually working. It's actually very rare for them to even ever have a working product. Blockchain technology is very good at taking money from investors and very bad at finishing the job.

All the tokens and coins that I have seen were just copies of more popular coins and never delivered the unique features that would have separated them from the rest. And even in business companies announce that they will try blockchain and then never mention it again.

The main thing is that blockchain can hardly fit within the corporate mindset who works in a pyramidale manner. And most buisness cant really operate smoothly without trust and accountability. Hence why you see an amount of scams and lies unprecedented in any industry.

And immutability is not always a good thing, can see the original dao fiasco as an example of this.

Now there are also advantages, and i cannot help but to see original bitcoin design was a centralised design if you follow satoshi words.

The problem i think is that it has be sold under false premise to a lot of guilible people with feeble understanding of technical and financial issues, in schemes that actually involved trust without provable trustwothyness.

You already had hash trees in systems like github that have already been designed to be dustributed and made a huge difference in the way software is developped today.

What is that idiom about? A dead dog's tail or is it a dead horse?

The fact that "Blockchain" isn't going to miraculously replace computing has been proven for a long time. Even the ICO enthusiasts have stopped promulgating the "data storage" use cases. Whatever happened to Filecoin and Sia?

Even then, it is evident that blockchain can solve a very important use-case. Trust. Whether its a 150+ exahash network for securing the most public wealth ledger or a simple Masternodes based private blockchain network between two parties looking for creating immutable records and databases.

The established uses of blockchain have been DeFi and NFTs. It is hard to deny this despite the scams etc. Its a cultural thing now and will keep evolving no matter how much of a sham it seems like.

For those other use cases, outside of censorship-resistant value-transfer like Bitcoin, that don’t need POW, wouldn’t MySQL databases or other open source databses available be cheaper to use, and be more efficient? Why use a “blockchain”?

A blockchain without POW is just like database with an x number of entities allowed to edit the ledger.

merkle tree is IT science buzzword for how to organise stuff within a block
blockchain is more descriptive average joe catch phrase for the chaining of blocks

you know a chaining of blocks is more descriptive for, the blockchain

merkle trees are for INSIDE the block.. heres an easy example
EG 4 transactions/files
[file/tx 1] md5hash: d3a26d6da3d6aed3016c3a23a10f6111
[file/tx 2] md5hash: c3f79c45d3ca76b97216105be5c4ff1a
[file/tx 3] md5hash: 3897b59a865d28da0aedecfca8f847fe
[file/tx 4] md5hash: fe833b714102e6795cd301d9ac228e35

the merkle tree does this
d3a26d6da3d6aed3016c3a23a10f6111 + c3f79c45d3ca76b97216105be5c4ff1a = 4757980f55852853aa7d57f8a862a457
3897b59a865d28da0aedecfca8f847fe + fe833b714102e6795cd301d9ac228e35 =817458c1b547bc10e613c1e9525ca37b

817458c1b547bc10e613c1e9525ca37b + 4757980f55852853aa7d57f8a862a457 =
f51fb103ec49e2325a5dd476e7821786

where f51fb103ec49e2325a5dd476e7821786 is the merkle tree organisation of blockdata of block1

you then add the ID of previous block (chaining the blocks)
where its:
merkle1+blockID0=blockID1    merkle2+blockID1=blockID2     merkle3+blockID2=blockID3

a merkle tree is like (inside a block)

  X
 /  \
/\   /\
a blockchain is just (more so)
    /X
  /X
/X

---

blockchains is about the data security/integrity. its not about backup. being able to check a hash of data, can see data variations because a hash wont match a new hash.

EG you dont have to copy 2 files and run a word-for-word comparison, looking for differences.
you just hash 2 files and check the hashes match
local user hash his file, remote user hashs their file. they only exchange the hash. they only check the hash


this part is true. people can distribute blockchains of file hashes without having to send all the files.
EG if i had a file hash blockchain on a usb drive (small file) i can then compare it to the actual files hashes days later on my PC and see if they match
first would be to check the top hash(rpresenting all files. matches the all files hash of my PC and instantly know if any changes have been made. and if so, then compare the file hashes between USB and desktop to see which file has been changed. all without having to open each file and read all the word document for edits or viewing all pixels of a photo


if there is no file security or data integrity, a airport in dubai can change its record and be different to an airport version in NY. blockchain adds the security to lock data to a hash and so comparing hashs is easier then asking for whole files just to compare


i know you dont like blockchains. but guess what extra security is added ontop of existing database, blockchain. so that you can see the hash of the database to check against a hash of a remote database without having to send the actual databases just to check

yep just to check peers data. you dont ned to resend a whole database. you just need to send the latest hash
if 5/5 locations have the same hash as you, then boom, you al have the same data
if your the odd one out of a 4/5 check, then your data is wrong.
this is all done without asking for 5 copies of complete database files


guess your missing the benefit of the hashs.


if new zealand can reach into its $$ pockets and pay the navy to ride a plane/boat to tonga.. then tonga gets supplies because of $$(today and tomorrow).

Lord F should be converting out or spending btc each day to do the same thing. and get support to tonga(now).
thats all im saying.

Lord F is on twitter pretty much every hour giving thanks for donations and tweeting about NFT and AI. but as of yet he has not organised a supply trip to tonga financed by crypto. and he cant send crypto to tonga.. because they have no internet
thats all im saying

i know you want to say that blockchains are dead/defunct tech..
but in the early 2000's cypherpunks said channels were flawed, and they seen the beauty of blockchains for its security benefits of preventing cheating

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Keeping a backup of user data is the solution to this problem. Using blockchain is the same exact thing as keeping a backup but only with extra complications that increase the cost for absolutely no reason or benefit!

No internet means no $$ either unless they put all the $$ in big bags and transferred it to Tonga LOL

I see it different. Blockchain is great for anything that "has a life" (finite or not), i.e. gets created, maybe evolves or gets transferred, maybe dies.
Logistics is a first candidate (and it's a huge "universe"). Genealogy/census/people's documents is another. Properties (especially land, buildings and other things that suffer taxation - maybe cars too) can be another.
Then blockchain is also great for anything that has to be immutable, like voting.

Of course in all these cases miners' rewards may be an issue to be handled - maybe separately. Somehow unauthorized changes have to become impossible, no matter how many individuals store those blockchains. And 51% attacks have to be also impossible. And this is hard to achieve if the blockchain itself doesn't hold value.

I remember that blockchain technology was really hyped years ago.
There were multiple articles about banks trying to adopt blockchain technology and all the bankers were saying
"We don't know about Bitcoin/crypto,but blockchain technology has a huge potential."
I guess that they were all hypocrites and I'm sure that 99% of them never knew how blockchain technology actually works.
Blockchain was a cool buzzword and every scammer around the world wanted to make a "decentralized blockchain project".
Nowadays the term blockchain isn't oversold anymore.The seekers of "the new big thing" are using new buzzwords,like NFT.

ok so here is a good example of using blockchains, where its 1 user, and its not transfering value, but has a purpose/function

imagine your desktop.
you have files in folders and you want an easy way to check if someone edited a file on your desktop with out you manually reading opening and reading every word document or checking every image

first get a hash of the file, and do all the same for all files of folder A
put all hashes into a block, then hash the block of hashes.
you now have a hash for folder A

do the same for files in folder B
but before hashing folder B add the folder A hash to the file hashes of folder B
then hash the block of hashes

repeat for all folders
you now have a blockchain


what you end up with when done is a single hash that represents all files. note it down
days later, hash the desktop files again and see if the final hash matches your noted down hash

software can automate this so the only human action is to see the current hash, to compare to noted down hash
and in 0.1 seconds your human eye can see if anything is different. just from comparing final hashes.

you dont need to 'clone' your drive to compare (lots of storage space needed)

you can also store the blockchain of file hashes on memory stick(hashes of a few bytes can represent an index to gb of data). so if there is a change of final hash, you can then compare and find the individual file hashes to locate which file was edited, without having to open each file one by one.. without needing to clone a drive just to compare

so thats an example of blockchain without needing decentralisation, without asic mining

Well that’s the thing about the free market and open source. It’s free. So under the name of open source they would do such things to showcase that the projects are being blockchain based and they are in full control of data integrity.

Though few projects around the crypto space are lurking good on blockchain they still form the great creamy layer of it and it’s being used contemporarily. For example, we have ethereum. Anyways the ERC20 formed in intitialen days based on blockchain and so as all the projects afterwards.

So if we are looking into opposite direction then sure Blockchain is oversold.

one recent prime example of a bad and severely oversold advert of crypto
the 'donations to tonga relief'

the organiser tweeted
https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FLordFusitua%2Fstatus%2F1483578990313209856&widget=Tweet

a. organiser is in new zealand
b. tonga has no internet
c. the first actual relief into tonga was paid in $$

i am a bitcoiner. and i donate to causes when i do my research. but this is overselling it.
tonga wont have internet for 2 weeks, meaning no btc in tonga

Well questioned, and there is a common understanding that blockchain technology is much into real-time usage. In reality it isn't, because for the above stated reason. The present traditional system itself seems efficient and within control. Some firms state they have moved towards the blockchain technology, the truth is they've started working on cryptography nothing much than that. Unless things gets ended with the centralized server this isn't gonna be a blockchain.

You say almost all areas of human activity. Could you give a few examples?

I understand that blockchain tech has its uses, and can certainly be used outside of transferring value, but the alternatives to such uses already have a more efficient solution. While I could see a few extra use cases that pan out, it will certainly not be in "almost all" areas of human activity as you put it.

Blockchain technology became possible mainly due to the emergence and wide distribution of the global Internet. The same applies to the emergence of cryptocurrencies. Blockchain technology is good because it allows you to store and effectively use large databases with a high degree of security in the constant access to them by any other person. Therefore, almost all states highly appreciated the great potential of this technology in various fields of activity. This technology can be used in almost all areas of human activity, since statistics, accounting and control are needed everywhere.

seems some dont like blockchains.

yes there are many ICO's pretending to do projects of utopia but have no intention to actually run, where their aims are just greed.

but blockchains do have a purpose

saying they dont is like saying that cloud storage is not needed because single host FTP worked fine for years.
but here is the thing. even the single hosted FTP owners disliked when their servers crashed and all customer data was inaccessible, so even they like distributed data.

security businesses with a single database employee log-in database, want not only distributed backups, but also a way to check the database isnt edited at any of the remote sites. and ensure that no employee can edit the database without being noticed.

even international airport security want access to world wide data but also ensure everyone has the same copy where one location cant just edit their copy and be unnoticed.

there are many real cases where blockchains offer a simple extra layer of security to standard database models. and it does not require the expense of millions of 'asics'. blockchains are not limited to being asic mined. the point of a blockchain is to lock a block of data. and chain it to the previous block of data. so that any edits can be seen/checked quickly and the latest 'hash' can be compared to other sources to check everyone has same copy.

blockchains dont even need to be from genesis to eternity. there are ways that the block hash is based on just 50 blocks in length where the oldest block drops when the newest(50th) block is added. meaning a perpetual chain of only 50 blocks chained together.

I have read attack of the 50 foot blockchain book lately it was quite interesting it somehow biased you can feel the Guy is not an enthusiast but it was quite interesting to read nonetheless.

It's not easy to find a project that needs blockchain. It probably has to be free to access/store (whether the information inside is encrypted or not is another story) and it has to properly reward the miners. And maybe more...
On the other hand, the politicians heard about this kind of buzz words and started rewarding projects just because they were done on a blockchain.
And the result is that everybody wanting to store anything in a database today is first thinking "can't I do this with a blockchain" (and transform the project from dull to cool)?

As of the past couple of years, blockchain enthusiasts and futurists alike have been flaunting the "plethora" of real-world use cases for our new-found blockchain technology.

Dozens of articles have been written in an attempt to convince the public that blockchain tech is the future for everything:

20 Real-World Uses for Blockchain Technology
The Growing List of Blockchain Uses
17 Blockchain Applications that are Transforming Society

The problems is, all of these "use cases" are done more efficiently when done outside of ANY blockchain. Blockchain technology, while capable, is not meant for anything outside of transferring value from Person A to Person B. Blockchain's only purpose is to provide an accurate, decentralized ledger that enables individuals to transfer value without the assistance of an intermediary.

This is all it was ever intended to do.

Naturally however, in the name of making money, people will try to find a solution to problems that weren't problems in the first place. You will find that many of these use cases are almost never attributed to bitcoin's network. They are almost entirely attributed to different alt networks aiming to be the worlds next "internet". They stretch and contort their blockchain's capabilities to make it seem like they will be the foundation of society as well as the backbone for businesses.

To be clear, I am not saying that blockchain's aren't capable of carrying out these use cases. I am saying that in a world where every dime matters, blockchain technology just isn't efficient enough (in comparison to it's non-blockchain alternatives) to carry out these uses on a global scale.

Regardless, next time you see a headline or a post touting a new "use" for blockchain tech, look at the alternatives and decide for yourself if our current system is more/less efficient than what the blockchain has to offer.