Topic: Brazil Presidential Candidate Jair Bolsonaro Is Stabbed (Read 446 times)

I believe it can help to overthrow a dictatorship. And help protesters.
In Venezuela, Maduro just smashes the population because they are unarmed. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44575599

Well, this is complete chaos and a civil war. That's what they live there... Arming our population now is just an insurance.



This link in Spain, socialism x venezuela is not entirely true, you are right. As the link between Norway socialism and Brazil is not true either. These are two very different kind of socialism. (Personally I believe they are the same, but in different stages, like the first time lula was president... but this is another discussions which is not worth now)

Norway has a socialist party in government, but they do not have a socialist economy.
Their "socialist" policies are basically abortion, gay marriage, wealth distribution, public health and schools etc... Which are not socialists at all, and most people do not have problems with those agendas (I don't have)

They are not nationalizing private companies for example. The socialists in Europe are educated and intelligent.

Norway is one of the most libertarian economies in the world.
Brazil has a socialist economy. Venezuela and Cuba too.

Check it out:
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Norway is 23th most libertarian economy in the world.

Brazil is 153 and Venezuela is 179, followed by Cuba 178 and North Korea 180.

And Lula is not on the TV saying good thinks about Norway economy, or Norway socialists policies. He is  saying that Maduro is doing a "wonderful job".

Our main fight now was to keep this Venezuela ghost away from us. I believe that in the next elections we may have a more moderated candidate.
In the past I voted for Lula (twice). I was not always "right wing".. but the situation here is just so alarming that our country elected this far right wing candidate...

USA has to be compared with countries with a similar level of economic and social development. Let's see what the statistics show in Brazil in four years if the measure is implemented.

But surely you don't really think democracy can be defended with guns given to the population in general? not even in Brazil. That is the argument for the right to bear arms in the USA, but it dates to the times of the War of Independence. Nowadays having small weapons only guarantees that many people will be killed by accident (it has been proven in the US that a weapon is more likely to kill the owner or family than a criminal).

If the state is saying that "police cannot protect you" it is implicitly saying that the state has failed and that anarchy is accepted.

Regarding defending yourself and your family, if the criminals know that there are people armed, they are likely to shot first and ask later. They are not going to disappear because they have no other way of living. That is very much the mistake that most people make when considering how to reduce criminality: If they don't have options, it does not matter how hard you hit them.

I am not much into Brazil's politics, so I can't comment on Lula's views. I know that the right wing parties in many parts of the world, i.e. in Spain are trying to establish a link between socialism and Venezuela in order to scare the voters, and that includes frequent headlines about the human disaster in the country. However, they seem to forget Norway, with a socialist party in power for ages and one of the best systems in the world.

They also tend to ignore that the US has blocked trade on any country that did not follow their rule and then set them as example of "bad governments". Just imagine how would the US look if a dictator like Castro was able to grant a great health service to all citizens while in the US many people are left untreated and the rest are paying ridiculous insurance sums for health care. Solution: Embargo. Kill their economy and then say "see how bad is communism".

"A more important rejoinder to this argument is Norway (and the other Nordic countries to a lesser extent). Norwegian workers are heavily protected, with 70 percent of workers covered by union contracts, and over a third directly employed by the government. The Norwegian state operates a gigantic sovereign wealth fund, and its financial assets total 331 percent of its GDP (as compared to an American figure of 25 percent). Meanwhile, its state-owned enterprises are worth 87 percent of GDP. Of all the domestic wealth in Norway, the government owns 59 percent, and fully three-quarters of the non-home wealth (as most Norwegians own their home)."
https://theweek.com/articles/783700/democratic-socialism-bad-why-norway-great


I understand that the situation is not comparable to Europe, the numbers are really bad. I am just saying that the answer needed may be different.

I think is not a question of socialism or communism or conservative or liberal politics. I think is a question of education and try to make society more cohesive instead of promoting fratricide. I understand that Brazil is now concerned with economy and crime, but be sure that it cannot be solved by force. Poverty and lack of education call for hunger, social unrest and criminality. Changing that takes years, even decades.

I really doubt that, Brazil is one of the most free countries regarding this matter... But, that's not our main problem anyway...



For now, only government and criminals have guns. Yes, criminals have a lot of guns here, more than the police in Rio de Janeiro, for example.

Criminals are now 100% sure you are disarmed at home. So they are free to enter your house at night and render your family, kill you and rape your wife, because they are armed and you are not. And the police is not able to take care of our security.

It may be difficult from someone from a civilized country in Europe to imagine what we have here. Your criminals are very educated and polite, so in many places in Europe even the police is disarmed.

Policeman are hunted in the brazil. More than 400 were killed in 2016 . Even military soldiers are killed in Brazil's streets.


Our murder rate is above 30. If we get as terrible as USA, we did great =D


Anyway, 2 reasons to have guns in Brazil:
1-Defend our family, as police can't.
2-Defend our democracy against dictactors such as Maduro (which Lula is a very close friend)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf-9BfbDZf4

Please watch this last video (most in spanish), and tell me if you would not be paranoid about Venezuela, having a president like Lula (he almost won, even inside jail, 45%)



In Europe the situation is now totally different, democracy is much consolidated, and those terrible regimes do not haunt you anymore. However, in Brazil we are very close to Venezuela (politically, economically, and geographically). And Venezuela situation is terrible. People are eating dogs and rats. Their homicide rate is 53 per 100.000. And Lula is saying they have a wonderful country!!! And he almost won the ellection!

It does pose a threat to any government trying to deflact currency. Bad for countries in debt it is.



He may reduce these rights.


Absolute numbers are not that meaningful, but the rates are similar to other countries in the area and I agree these are far too high.

However I fail to understand the argument of "we are going to have less crime by allowing people to carry guns" (If I understood correctly).

Philosophically, you are basically telling people that the police forces cannot defend them and the state is going to disregard his obligation and place it on the individuals, that is "you are on your own, pick a gun and shoot them!" Why would I pay taxes for that?

In practical terms,  it does not work.  USA murder rate is above 5 per 100k habitants. Compare that other economically developed regions like with Europe (3), Australia and New Zealand (3) and even Asia (2.9). Compare it with Canada if you will (1.7) Also, it is the country with more percent of its population incarcerated and one of the few occidental countries that apply the death penalty for a wide range of offences in many states.


Human Rights are for everyone. "Human" includes evil humans. You can't take shortcuts if you intend to have any moral high ground.

You are right. This is what is going on in our economy:
Our interest rates are one of the biggest in the world. Government spend more money than it receives. So  our interest rates are high, so our government can  get loans to pay its expenses, and more loans to pay the past loans (because we always did that. Not sustainable, right?)

So Bolsonaro is promising to reduce public expenses, until we are at least spending less than it collect through taxes.
Our biggest expense is the public pension, which is a bizarre part of our GDP.

I believe this subject is 100% related to the our Forum.
If we don't reduce public expenses, government is going to have to "print money" to pay for it's debts. It's not that simple as "printing money", but it will get the money needed through high inflation (1000% per year, near 100%/month).

Venezuela is doing that. Brazil did that too few years ago. Argentina made that too. This is real.
And Lula (PT), is supporting Maduro.

Anyway, Bitcoin was created for those situations.



You are right about LGBT and abortion. However, LGBT already have all rights here, they can have a normal life and get married and adopt children.


About the public security, our country is one of the most dangerous in the world. In absolute numbers, Brazil is the country with more homicides in the world.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/world/americas/brazil-murder-rate-record.html
This NY article talks about 63,000 killed every year here in Brazil. This is more than the War on Syria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War) which varies between 30,000-70,000

The biggest solution proposed by Bolsonaro related to this is that he will allow guns in our country. Just like in the USA and other countries. For now, everyone but the government agents are allowed to have guns.

So in Brazil people are worried about Human Rights of innocent people, who are getting killed freely. PT (former government) was very worried about criminal's human rights (just like Maduro in Venezuela.)

A discussion about rapist's human rights made Bolsonaro famous years ago.... He wanted to implement chemical castration for rapists.



He is not worried about the environment for now (it is not our main problem). He just said he will merge the ministry of the environment with others ministries (to reduce public expenses).

The statistics show that is the candidate of the white, middle-upper class with majorities in the richest regions of the country. My forecast, perhaps uninformed, is:

- Economy:
Will liberalise many of the very rigid sectors of the economy, so it will be good for the country in average.
Will not redistribute wealth on an already polarised country, so it will be really good for a minority and will bring negative consequences for large parts of the population.
Will reduce taxes, favouring the upper-middle class.

- Society:
Will have a blind eye with any violation of Human Rights, even encouraging harsh dictatorial measures for the shake of "less crime / safety". However it is unlikely to have a real effect on crime, since normally petty criminals don´t have that much to loose and the only cases of police abuse that are judged are those that have unequivocal video evidence.
It is likely to be conservative on social issues, possibly regresive in abortion and LGBT and likely to impose religious education.

- Enviroment:
Please, enlighten me. For the moment he has promised not to give any additional land to aboriginal tribes.

Bolsonaro was elected president yesterday, with 55% (its believed he had much more, like 70%, because the electronic ballot boxes are not reliable).
Brazil was in party yesterday, looked like a world cup final game.

I believe this will lead us to a new era, free from socialists from the worker's party (they were in power since 2002).

As I said in another post, his personality is similar to Trump, and people here compare both presidents.
They are also both nationalists and agains globalism.

I hope Brazil now willl approach free countries and stay away from Venezuela, Cuba and Angola.

It's terribly  sad to see our neighbors in Venezuela coming as refugees to Brazil, and at the same time see the Worker's Party making alliances with Maduro and even so managing to receive 45% of the votes (the got very close to get ellected again, with Lula in jail, the president of the party)

He is alright now. He still needs to have another surgery and still needs medical care, but he already walks, talks, participates in interviews. In the first round, he received more than 49 million votes. 46.03% of the total valid votes. He'll probably be the next president. He is not yet leaving home regularly, but the reason is far greater for fear and insecurity than for medical reasons.



His last TV interview :




Some curiosities about the Brazilian elections. The party he was competing for was tiny. And after these elections became the second largest of the chamber of deputies. The federal and state deputies who received the most votes belonged to his party. Most of the candidates for governor positions competing in the second round declare support or repudiation of the opponent. There are few candidates who repudiate it and are still running for the elections.[1]

Brasilian deputies chambers.


The country was clearly divided. The richest regions of the country voted in weight at Jair Bolsonaro. The poorest voted for Haddad. In the more urban and cosmopolitan cities, he has gained a great advantage.

The first act of Haddad, his opponent, was to go and visit former President Lula. That is imprisoned accused of corruption. Soon after this visit, which was much criticized, they changed the campaign strategy. Reduced the use of red color and increased the use of colors that represent the Brazilian flag. They reduced the use of Lula's name and the use of his image in TV campaigns.[2]

Brasilian election first round


Even so, the victory of Jair Bolsonaro seems the most likely scenario.

In this last week, the big debate is about using fake news. A large Brazilian newspaper accused his campaign of paying large sums for mass mailing using What's app.

It is important to highlight that practically 100% of the Brazilian population uses what's app. It is the most used means of communication for everything including receiving information about the electoral dispute.

But the newspaper was not able to present strong evidence. And it seems that it was only people who support Bolsonaro doing everything to contribute to his campaign. Brazilian electoral legislation is very restricted regarding the use of money in campaigns. But it is quite probable that this is not considered an electoral crime.[3]

What is rather curious, is that even with the massive popular support, he was one of the least spent money in the campaign. His expense did not reach 1/6 of his main opponent's spending.[4]

Even being a right-wing candidate, he was the one with the most frugal campaign. In Brazil a politician cannot pay for a TV commercial. Time is divided by justice according to the number of deputies that each party elected in the last election.

While he had only 8 seconds a day, his opponent had 3 minutes a day. Today, in the second round, time is the same for both. There was a survey yesterday whose results demonstrate how the vote of each layer of society is.

How people intend to vote: [5]


Mens vote


Womans


Uneducated


People that have studied in university


Poor


Rich

---

---

[5]https://g1.globo.com/politica/eleicoes/2018/eleicao-em-numeros/noticia/2018/10/19/pesquisa-datafolha-de-18-de-outubro-para-presidente-por-sexo-idade-escolaridade-renda-regiao-e-religiao.ghtml

[4]http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/justica/noticia/2018-09/presidenciaveis-gastam-r-1304-milhoes-na-campanha-eleitoral

[3]https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2018/10/empresarios-bancam-campanha-contra-o-pt-pelo-whatsapp.shtml

[2]https://politica.estadao.com.br/noticias/geral,haddad-visita-lula-para-discutir-2-turno,70002538683

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_general_election,_2018

Unfortunately the popular Jair Bolsonaro may not be fit enough to stand in the next elections. Do you think he should be allowed to use a proxy until he is fit enough to become active again. Without this option, the failed assassin will have achieved a victory.

You are right, I spoke too soon without fully understanding the situation.
It is not about him personally, but about the context.

I would still have hard time believing anyone's intention, but since this seems like just a symptom of a bigger and wider issue, I will not make any rush judgements.

The problem is that in Brazil a party allied to Maduro and chaves (worker's party) is in power since 2002.
We are in a deep economic crisis. Maybe a person from a developed country does not understand that

This means that there are no jobs. You cannot be employed almost anywhere.
You cannot open your own business, because it will probably fail.
Our fiat currency lost about 70% of its value since 2014.

25%of Brazilian population receives money from the government to survive.

Anyway, both last worker's party presidents were involved with corruption or other legal problems, so they were legally removed from power in 2016. The central left party (social democrat) took the power after the impeachment (with no elections). They are allied to worker's party, and were the vice president.

Now we are going to have elections in 2018 and the rift wing candidate, who is probably going to win, is stabbed by a left wing party member and almost died.


https://veja.abril.com.br/politica/homem-que-esfaqueou-bolsonaro-foi-filiado-ao-psol-por-7-anos/
Psol = socialismo e liberdade, socialism and freedom

That's a tragedy because its nearly a coup.

I don't care about his political views, but I am never 'very sad' when a politician gets hurt.

Keep in mind that he still almost certainly took money from big companies in return to look after their interests when he is in power.
I am not saying it still isn't a bad thing to hurt someone, but it isn't really a tragedy, in my opinion.

Thanks for clearing that up, and things make more sense to me after reading your post. We have a massive problem with fake news and media manipulation at the moment. You cite the example of Brexit, and not only is it treasonous, but if you step back and look at the decline in the UK since it allowed the EU to suck out our assets and export our manufacturing, you wonder how anyone could vote against Brexit. Obviously those with globalist ambitions like Richard Branson and Tony Blair have interests in destroying the country of their birth. Many others are paid by Soros and his organisations, and this provides an obvious motive.

I hope that the populist movement that is growing in the world will be able to help Brazil to regain its strength.

I don't think Wikipedia is a nice source of information about that.

He never claimed torture is a legitimate practice for example... Neither the dictatorship was "known for constant human rights violations". This is the left wing propaganda only... During 25 years of dictatorship there were 400 proved cases of torture, which are very few compared to the problems we have here now , like 80.000 homicides per year.

He is a conservative, the only one in Brazil. We don't have a conservative party here. We have one politician only.
He has 22% in Presidential pools, not mainly young eletorade . This is the left trying to belittle his electorates, like they did to Trump and brexit (ignorant poor and xenophobic people )

His main plataform is public security. He defends that everyone has the right to have a gun (worker's party, the left wing, Lula , now in jail, forbid everyone but policeman and few burocrats to have guns, like in Venezuela).
Brazil is the country with the highest number of homicides per year :80thousand, more than the war in Syria.

He fights against rapes (he proposed castration for rapers, but left wing feminists were against). He is very political incorrect.


Another important plataform of his campaign is fighting against homsexual education in schoos (he discovered books about sexuality for kids of 5-6 years that incentive homosexual behavior, made by ministry of education, of the workers party government).

He is somehow similar and inspired in Donald Trump, however is not that smart.


He is accused to be racist, because he thinks that if you murder a black or a white the guy, the sentence should be the same. He says that we don't need laws like femicide also, because if you kill a man or woman, the sentence should also be the same.

So, he is a racist, male chauvist, promoter of violence, etc... In left wing eyes..

Also, he is the only candidate against globalism. He says Brazil will leave the UN .
This was a great blow to our globalist media, where you are forbid to say anything bad about the UN , or Mandela. They are sacred here in Brazil.




Un tried to intervene in our election, saying thay Lula (arrested for corruption) should be released to participate in the elections.

Our situation is very Chaotic. If he dies we are fucked. There is no one to replace him.

But I believe he will.come back stronger with more votes.


https://www.gazetadopovo.com.br/eleicoes/2018/cartilha-do-kit-gay-e-renata-ganha-menos-que-bonner-o-que-bolsonaro-disse-no-jn-cluhzt7lpr3fde1emf65qshk6

Try to read I. Google translate you will find some recent information about him. His last big interview.

Wow - he looks like a fairly extreme candidate. I read this article in Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro

I wonder if he is motivated by the membership of any global cabal. Some of his opinions are sympathetic to their ambitions, but a few are in conflict.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/world/americas/brazil-jair-bolsonaro.html
Brazil Presidential Candidate Jair Bolsonaro Is Stabbed

Extreme right nazist facist racist hater etc etc Presidential candidate jair Bolsonaro , leading all pools in Brazil election, was just stabbed today by a worker's party militant (those peaceful and lovely democractic socialists). less 30 days before the elections .

Very sad..

I will write something about it later on . Just wanted to give the news for you guys around the world.