Topic: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth (Read 15145 times)

Here's how they do it.

The Tax Free Tour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4o13isDdfY&feature=youtu.be

But if fractional reserve banking creates "bitcoins" that do not exist then how can you pay back your dept? Sooner or later some people won't be able to pay back the dept so that these virtually created bitcoins would have to be deleted from the system. But what if these virtual coins were already lent out in turn? Then we would need to know which exact virtual bitcoins to destroy if the original borrower defaulted?

This is really a problem in my opinion.

Question;

What happens if the extremely rich people who have now been identified decide to do a bank run of their own cash to buy gold/silver/bitcoins. Will the IMF/etc limit their withdrawal like they did with the Cypriots?

And if they tried.. what would happen?

exposing for the first time the identities of thousands of holders of anonymous wealth from around the world

I don't see a particularly big problem with fractional reserve banking.  Works fine as long as it's well managed.  If I had a mind to loan my money to a bank I'm sure I'd choose one which did fractional reserve because they will be much more competitive then those who are not.

But I'd want a functional legal system to ensure that I had good visibility and such.  We don't have that these days (for my non-wealthy class of citizens) and that is one of the reasons why I don't loan my money to banks or anyone else.  That is, no mutual funds, stocks, bonds, IRA, pension, paper-gold, etc.  Basically no instruments which have counter-party risk.  I've made that a habit since the early 2000's...and never regretted it!

I kind of expect that this supposed "wealth" will be just erased in our lifetime. Just.. it never existed in real world anyway. It never was gold, or anything tangible. All positive entries in anyone's bank balances are negative in somebody else's. In the "liabilities" column it is called "bad debt". It is not repayable. Cyprus shows us that the balances can just vanish, without anyone even trying to extract payment from the debtors of the bank.

It is a great charade. Big boys can make you suffer, no matter if you are long or short fiat. They are the moneymasters. They may or may not control bitcoin, but everyone knows that they do control the dollar, euro, gold and to a great extent silver. If some of them hold some of the $32,000,000,000,000 out there, they know it is not wealth. "Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs -- upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: "Account overdrawn"." (- Rand) The rest of the $32T is held by public, no less gullible than the ones who take mortgages to buy overvalued houses and expect to get away without punishment.

The ones who have the gold, make the rules. Or silver. Or bitcoin. Buy these. Forget about hoarding fiat balances, and don't play with debt.

Ugh.

If fractional reserve banking is possible even with bitcoin then the root of evil won't get eliminated by this new currency, am I right?

It has to do with transparency (the primary goal of Wikileaks) and the corrosive effects of money in politics which thrives in darkness.  To me.  I don't believe that a sustainable society will be able to support a high number of super-rich while providing the rest with a tolerable quality of life as the population increases and natural resources become harder to extract.  And the super-rich cause all kinds of mischief by subverting our democracy with money.  So our best hope is to amputate the gangrenous limb before it kills the entire body.  I'd like to see the entire 32T or whatever thrown into a fire pit and burnt...minus half a T or so going into Bitcoin

What do these tax cheats have to do with Assange or Wikileaks? How exactly is it saving the world to expose the tax cheats? It helps the IRS and the police but it's not gonna save the world.

Artful, tvbcof.   

And I wonder if this might have been sparked - or even perhaps be a part of - Assange's insurance.  We've all learned quite a bit in the past few years about how - and especially how not - to release massively damaging information to the public.  It's a very interesting event.

Would not surprise me.  Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright.  Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows.  OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.

Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card.  It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256'

This is what ONE trillion dollars looks like, imagine 32 of these:

The role of government is to create and protect institutions that make our society work. It's like an operating system and to run it you need energy. So we need to pay tax.
If you think your government does it wrong you should change your government or move to where you think it is done right. For one, start voting for sane people.

And why exactly is 'government' a synonym for 'society'?
I fail to understand how its logical that government is able to extract what is essentially rent for participating in society. I mean, its one thing to pay your money into a commune or government to pay for roads & bridge or the like, as well as a few essential services & regulatory bodies. Its something completely different when you are paying huge portions of your money to the government and their budget ends up looking like this:
http://www.federalbudget.com/

It's people.  Federal Reserve Notes is people.

If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility.
By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations.

If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility.
By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations.

Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft.

People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property.

World need new redistribution of wealth a peaceful ways.

Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft.

People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property.

The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me.

The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me.

Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there was nothing or not much in there but it was only announced to scare some people.

This is good because it'll throw some cold water on the blazing flame of press that has been on bitcoin.

We need to cool down for awhile.

That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here).

Would not surprise me.  Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright.  Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows.  OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.
Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card.  It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256'

OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.

Would not surprise me.  Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright.  Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows.  OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.

Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card.  It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256'

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there.  No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Now how do we get some of that 32 trillion?

Now how do we get some of that 32 trillion?

Hmmm... I doubt this means there are 32 trillion physical dollars being stashed away somewhere. But it's true that if all this money suddenly resurfaced, it would become the great grandmother of all QE's

Wouldn't suddenly releasing even a small portion of that cause massive inflation? Since its hidden away and not interacting with the economy right now, its not part of the money supply, but if the owner decides to spend it or the government takes it its suddenly in circulation.

Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft.

People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property.

I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion

So, does anybody know where the 32 trillion came from?

So, does anybody know where the 32 trillion came from?

This is what ONE trillion dollars looks like, imagine 32 of these:

Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD

All gearing up for the great reset. Imagine BTC and gold going bidless.....

Cannot agree with you more. Anyone knows any place where offshore deposits could run to?

All gearing up for the great reset. Imagine BTC and gold going bidless.....

Hoard ALL the usb drives!!!

No, the blockchain is already larger than 4gb. 

In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this.

It's many times easier/cheaper to secure them, when compared with gold/fiats. One diligent guy can achieve nearly perfect security.

That's why you should make several offline backups, and keep them at at least 2 or more geographical locations (house, job, in the cloud, friend's house, etc.) and not just on you/in your house (in case of disaster, you don't want to lose all your copies!).  Of course, double-encrypt them

This is bigger than Bitcoin.

I expect this to have a positive effect on the price, but I hate to think that Bitcoin will gain a reputation as the way the rich hide how rich they are.

Also: holy shit 32 trillion with a T?!? What the fuck.

Loving the newsflow of the past couple of weeks.

Perfect storm keeps on developing.  Hurricanes a'plenty.

And Bitcoin has a monopoly in the bunker business.

Cannot agree with you more. Anyone knows any place where offshore deposits could run to?

Cannot agree with you more. Anyone knows any place where offshore deposits could run to?

The implications of this will be enormous. First Cypress and now British Virgin Isles. It seems tax havens are no longer a safe place to store money.

Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD

Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD

Actually no. Not lost 32 trillion USD, but redistributed 32 trillion USD to all other Bitcoin holders.

And you wonder why we're going to the moon?

In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this.

This is what ONE trillion dollars looks like, imagine 32 of these:

This is good because it'll throw some cold water on the blazing flame of press that has been on bitcoin.

We need to cool down for awhile.

Millions of internal records have leaked from Britain's offshore financial industry, exposing for the first time the identities of thousands of holders of anonymous wealth from around the world, from presidents to plutocrats, the daughter of a notorious dictator and a British millionaire accused of concealing assets from his ex-wife.

The leak of 2m emails and other documents, mainly from the offshore haven of the British Virgin Islands (BVI), has the potential to cause a seismic shock worldwide to the booming offshore trade, with a former chief economist at McKinsey estimating that wealthy individuals may have as much as $32tn (£21tn) stashed in overseas havens.

[...]
The names have been unearthed in a novel project by the Washington-based International Consortium of Investigative Journalists [ICIJ], in collaboration with the Guardian and other international media, who are jointly publishing their research results this week.

The naming project may be extremely damaging for confidence among the world's wealthiest people, no longer certain that the size of their fortunes remains hidden from governments and from their neighbours.

[...]
As well as Britons hiding wealth offshore, an extraordinary array of government officials and rich families across the world are identified, from Canada, the US, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, China, Thailand and former communist states.
The data seen by the Guardian shows that their secret companies are based mainly in the British Virgin Islands.

Sample offshore owners named in the leaked files include:

[...]
• US: Offshore clients include Denise Rich, ex-wife of notorious oil trader Marc Rich, who was controversially pardoned by President Clinton on tax evasion charges. She put $144m into the Dry Trust, set up in the Cook Islands.

[...]

The whistleblowing group WikiLeaks caused a storm of controversy in 2010 when it was able to download almost two gigabytes of leaked US military and diplomatic files.

The new BVI data, by contrast, contains more than 200 gigabytes, covering more than a decade of financial information about the global transactions of BVI private incorporation agencies. It also includes data on their offshoots in Singapore, Hong Kong and the Cook Islands in the Pacific.