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exstasie

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 29, 2019, 09:43:31 AM

There is absolutely no reason for someone new to crypto to buy or want to use one of these forked shitcoins over the real thing - this is the real reason they will remain alts, and hopefully both will die someday and become asterisks in the history of bitcoin.

There is inevitably going to be a group of users who doesn't understand the economic design and therefore emphasizes "cheap fees" and "fast confirmations" as the supreme goals. This narrative is bolstered by the fact that these "features" were hyped by early Bitcoin companies like Blockchain.info and Bitpay and Coinbase, who promised users cheap and fast transactions forever. It's no wonder those companies were in the big block forker camp and support BCH today.....and it's no wonder there's still a niche of naive users who buys into this crap.

WinslowIII

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Quote from: pushups44 on May 28, 2019, 11:24:37 PM

Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency. How can these people have become that delusional? without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

The supporters of the forks have every right to prattle about how great their coins are, but the market has decided that they are not bitcoin. The institutional and possibly sovereign buying is of the original chain - what is traded as BTC. There was a brief time in which it seemed BCH could be a contender for the top spot, but there is rarely ever a suggestion of it any longer.

Yes, they have every right to be delusional and to spout off crazy things like their market caps will overtake bitcoin's someday. Just like I have every right to call them lunatics, which they are. Bitcoin is light years ahead in adoption, branding, image, everything. Every day this gap widens. There is absolutely no reason for someone new to crypto to buy or want to use one of these forked shitcoins over the real thing - this is the real reason they will remain alts, and hopefully both will die someday and become asterisks in the history of bitcoin.

pushups44

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency. How can these people have become that delusional? without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

The supporters of the forks have every right to prattle about how great their coins are, but the market has decided that they are not bitcoin. The institutional and possibly sovereign buying is of the original chain - what is traded as BTC. There was a brief time in which it seemed BCH could be a contender for the top spot, but there is rarely ever a suggestion of it any longer.

samycoin

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency. How can these people have become that delusional? without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

Well it's their opinions but their illusion that bsv or bch will not beat the bitcoin. People know that bitcoin is more benefits than to that coins and its proven. They're only fork and I think many forks will be come not only this two the bsv and bch.

El duderino_

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Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then? I like both coins, and who the fuck likes paying higher fees?

F*** off nobody like Bcash except You perhaps and Ver, as nobody likes BSV except CSW....

WinslowIII

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The Founder starring Michael Keaton is a very good movie that shows the power of a name. I advise bitcoin fork followers, as well as all shitcoin followers to watch it.

YuginKadoya

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Quote from: wuvdoll on May 27, 2019, 04:02:26 AM

To be perfectly honest even us the people who do not believe in these forks could use it for profits as well and that is not that bad. We do not believe in the fundamental ideology behind it and may not agree with the creators of it but the reality is that they are spending buckets of money to keep it up and why not take advantage of that. Buy it when its low, let Craigs and Jihans of the world get it to a higher price and sell it while profiting.

You do not need to be a bitcoin cash or bsv lover to make money out of them, you just need to be a careful day trader and that is enough. Someone buying bitcoin cash doesn't have to be that person supporting it, it could just mean he is a good smart investor who will take money from the creators and that is wise enough move that plenty of people are doing it.

I agree some traders are using this kind of set back from the moment the price pumps and dump the opportunity to earn even in a small movement it can get, Well like you said you don't need to be a lover of this coins because you can use them for your own purpose, By getting familiar movements out from it, day trading is most required for this if you can read slight movements from this coins and trading with other cryptocurrencies.

wuvdoll

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To be perfectly honest even us the people who do not believe in these forks could use it for profits as well and that is not that bad. We do not believe in the fundamental ideology behind it and may not agree with the creators of it but the reality is that they are spending buckets of money to keep it up and why not take advantage of that. Buy it when its low, let Craigs and Jihans of the world get it to a higher price and sell it while profiting.

You do not need to be a bitcoin cash or bsv lover to make money out of them, you just need to be a careful day trader and that is enough. Someone buying bitcoin cash doesn't have to be that person supporting it, it could just mean he is a good smart investor who will take money from the creators and that is wise enough move that plenty of people are doing it.

jseverson

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Quote from: JohnTask on May 25, 2019, 08:02:40 AM

-snip-

I wasn't really looking to be convinced, I just wanted a peek from a different perspective. After having read what you shared, let's agree to disagree.

Quote from: exstasie on May 25, 2019, 12:45:23 AM

To play devil's advocate for a moment, you could have said the same thing about Bitcoin until pretty recently. In fact the mainstream is still quite skeptical. From my perspective, BCH and BSV are pretty shitty fundamentally and don't have bright futures, but I've been wrong about altcoins many times before. A few years ago, I never would have thought Ethereum would grow as large as it did. Who knows?

Under the context of the conversation, I meant the existing crypto community (and some overflow with the media and casual investors, but they're fickle) when I said "mainstream". I wasn't doubting BCH and BSV in a general sense, I was doubting the prospect of them pulling a flippening over BTC given recent trends. Who knows could be said about nearly every given situation, but that doesn't change the likelihood of something happening, which is what I was addressing.

1Referee

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Quote from: exstasie on May 24, 2019, 03:42:07 PM

That's because of Bitpay.....any invoice can be paid with BTC or BCH. Bitpay were in the big block camp and when the BCH guys hard forked in 2017, they added BCH support fairly quickly, probably hoping it would facilitate adoption.

Not by default anymore. Merchants now have the option to select whatever coin they want to accept. BitPay pushed BCH in your face initially, but later made it an optional feature. I guess that Roger was too demanding there. Merchants accepting Bitcoin don't want to accept something else alongside it, which may lead to bad marketing.

Quote from: exstasie on May 24, 2019, 03:42:07 PM

If not for Bitpay, I doubt there would be much merchant acceptance at all. For BSV, it's obviously even worse. I really have no idea how the forkers convince themselves to stay the course. Their coins are on a long, slow bleed towards zero.

As long as Roger and Jihan are willing to devote their BTC mining earnings to financially support BCH, BCH will remain up and running in the top 10.

BCash has actually very little organic transaction activity. It's way less so than Litecoin with orders of magnitude less merchant adoption. They artificially inflate the transaction numbers, and artificially inflade the on-chain value volume by moving insane amounts of BCH back and forth. How pathetic.

Adriano2010

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Bitcoin will not dissappear, and always people will use more bitcoin than the forks, as someone say always invest in bitcoin and not on coin named bitcoin x or bitcoin y, because they are not bitcoin and just a copy.

JohnTask

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Quote from: jseverson on May 24, 2019, 10:55:43 PM

Quote from: JohnTask on May 24, 2019, 09:49:19 PM

Good strategy for the short(ish) term if you are a trader, we seem to agree!

In the long term though (5+ years), I believe that BSV has, BY FAR, the best chance of survival and mainstream adoption. But hey, don't take my word for it! I'm sure you won't. Cheesy

Always do your own research, your own due diligence!

That's interesting. Why would you say so? The mainstream don't seem bullish at all on BCH, and much less so on BSV. What makes you think the script will flip in the long term?

Well, I believe that if I would try and explain to you how I think about, if I would try to convince you, I would be actively defeating the idea of doing your own research and due diligence, would I not? Wink

But for those interested and open-minded, this gives a broad idea of what I'm talking about:

https://medium.com/cryptolawreview/bitcoin-battle-668349176b38

Have fun reading, and always stay vigilant!

exstasie

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Quote from: jseverson on May 24, 2019, 10:55:43 PM

Quote from: JohnTask on May 24, 2019, 09:49:19 PM

Good strategy for the short(ish) term if you are a trader, we seem to agree!

In the long term though (5+ years), I believe that BSV has, BY FAR, the best chance of survival and mainstream adoption. But hey, don't take my word for it! I'm sure you won't. Cheesy

Always do your own research, your own due diligence!

That's interesting. Why would you say so? The mainstream don't seem bullish at all on BCH, and much less so on BSV. What makes you think the script will flip in the long term?

To play devil's advocate for a moment, you could have said the same thing about Bitcoin until pretty recently. In fact the mainstream is still quite skeptical. From my perspective, BCH and BSV are pretty shitty fundamentally and don't have bright futures, but I've been wrong about altcoins many times before. A few years ago, I never would have thought Ethereum would grow as large as it did. Who knows?

I'm okay missing the boat on the BTC forks though. There's plenty of opportunity and BTC isn't going anywhere. I'm only stacking BTC, ETH, and a few sleeper alts for the next altcoin bubble.

jseverson

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Quote from: JohnTask on May 24, 2019, 09:49:19 PM

Good strategy for the short(ish) term if you are a trader, we seem to agree!

In the long term though (5+ years), I believe that BSV has, BY FAR, the best chance of survival and mainstream adoption. But hey, don't take my word for it! I'm sure you won't. Cheesy

Always do your own research, your own due diligence!

That's interesting. Why would you say so? The mainstream don't seem bullish at all on BCH, and much less so on BSV. What makes you think the script will flip in the long term?

JohnTask

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 24, 2019, 09:26:36 PM

Quote from: JohnTask on May 24, 2019, 09:18:27 PM

Having fun in your echo chamber, guys? Grin

BTC seems to be a safe bet for the near future, I believe that as well. But please, don't be too quick to judge and always do your due diligence. NEVER be emotionally invested. Think strategy.

I wish you all the best! Cheesy

I'm following the direction the mainstream is heading to, I have no idea what you are following, because I'm not a lunatic.

Good strategy for the short(ish) term if you are a trader, we seem to agree!

In the long term though (5+ years), I believe that BSV has, BY FAR, the best chance of survival and mainstream adoption. But hey, don't take my word for it! I'm sure you won't. Cheesy

Always do your own research, your own due diligence!

WinslowIII

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Quote from: JohnTask on May 24, 2019, 09:18:27 PM

Having fun in your echo chamber, guys? Grin

BTC seems to be a safe bet for the near future, I believe that as well. But please, don't be too quick to judge and always do your due diligence. NEVER be emotionally invested. Think strategy.

I wish you all the best! Cheesy

I'm following the direction the mainstream is heading to, I have no idea what you are following, because I'm not a lunatic.

JohnTask

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Having fun in your echo chamber, guys? Grin

BTC seems to be a safe bet for the near future, I believe that as well. But please, don't be too quick to judge and always do your due diligence. NEVER be emotionally invested. Think strategy.

I wish you all the best! Cheesy

exstasie

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 24, 2019, 12:53:39 PM

Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then?

Bitcoin Cash certainly has its uses--most of the merchants I've used to buy things accept both BTC and BCH, and that's actually kind of surprising to me. Usually it's only bitcoin and rarely LTC or even ETH.

That's because of Bitpay.....any invoice can be paid with BTC or BCH. Bitpay were in the big block camp and when the BCH guys hard forked in 2017, they added BCH support fairly quickly, probably hoping it would facilitate adoption.

If not for Bitpay, I doubt there would be much merchant acceptance at all. For BSV, it's obviously even worse. I really have no idea how the forkers convince themselves to stay the course. Their coins are on a long, slow bleed towards zero.

LeGaulois

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@LFC_Bitcoin is right. The only ones who care about BCH are the trading bots. You have a few supporters, usually trolling on Twitter trying to argue with anything they can. They are so sure of their lies that they end up really believing it. I don't know how to say it's a bit like a cult with a few gurus gravitating in the sphere.

Ailmand

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Bitcoin has been through a lot and has passed all the tests of time and these altcoins still need to go through a lot for them to conclude that they could surpass bitcoin. Those coins have the potential to rise but they can't reach the achievements of Bitcoin. They have to prove that they can reach things that bitcoin has reached.

WinslowIII

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 24, 2019, 12:53:39 PM

Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then?

Bitcoin Cash certainly has its uses--most of the merchants I've used to buy things accept both BTC and BCH, and that's actually kind of surprising to me. Usually it's only bitcoin and rarely LTC or even ETH.

The market for BCH at least is speaking for itself. It's not like 1 BCH is worth pennies. The rest of the fork coins are not faring so well, and that's to be expected. How many bitcoin-forked coins can anyone possibly be interested in? In any case, my heart is with bitcoin and not with BCH or any of the other forked monstrosities. I do like some alts that aren't bitcoin forks, but that's about it--and there aren't many I'm truly interested in.

The only thing that makes sense to me is Ver is paying those merchants gobs of money to list his shitcoin, but even though it's accepted by merchants doesn't mean anyone outside of the project is using it. Bitcoin on the other hand..

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then?

Bitcoin Cash certainly has its uses--most of the merchants I've used to buy things accept both BTC and BCH, and that's actually kind of surprising to me. Usually it's only bitcoin and rarely LTC or even ETH.

The market for BCH at least is speaking for itself. It's not like 1 BCH is worth pennies. The rest of the fork coins are not faring so well, and that's to be expected. How many bitcoin-forked coins can anyone possibly be interested in? In any case, my heart is with bitcoin and not with BCH or any of the other forked monstrosities. I do like some alts that aren't bitcoin forks, but that's about it--and there aren't many I'm truly interested in.

Quote from: dothebeats on May 24, 2019, 12:31:19 PM

Almost every altcoin created has that aim to be the next big thing and the one who will dethrone bitcoin for good

Agreed (to an extent), which is why there's so much junk on the market. Another reason that exchanges like Yobit have so many coins selling for 1 satoshi is that the devs of those coins wanted to make a quick profit for themselves. They didn't think they were innovating or improving on bitcoin or any other coin, regardless of whatever their whitepapers said. Most of them should be delisted from every exchange they trade on.

dothebeats

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Almost every altcoin created has that aim to be the next big thing and the one who will dethrone bitcoin for good, with the exception of Litecoin, of course. They will babble things to lure in people into buying their coins and do some stunts/things in public in order to generate more hype. An altcoin can be anything it likes, and people still have the final judgment on which to buy. At the end of the day, people will know what they need and where would they find it, so BCH and BSV can fight all they want into getting that spot but we know BTC is the only bitcoin that most people use and trust. It has its flaws but still, it gets the job done.

Slow death

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency.

Do you take time to see what's in this " Announcements (Altcoins) " section?

many people believe that the shitcoins that are in this section: Announcements (Altcoins) will be the next bitcoin, that would have a great increase of prices and that will be used in everybody. if you see the projects that are created every day, you will probably wonder the following:

Will the brains of these people be working?

create many projects without meaning, look at this:

Jesus Coin (JC)

ANN Thread: ✝️✝️✝️ [ANN] [ICO] JESUS COIN - Decentralizing Jesus on the Blockchain ✝️✝️✝️

What purpose does an altcoin have like Jesus coin? the greed blinded the people of the crypto world. Bitcoin cash and BSV are not different from other altcoins without any purpose

WinslowIII

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Quote from: LFC_Bitcoin on May 24, 2019, 11:01:36 AM

Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then? I like both coins, and who the fuck likes paying higher fees?

BCH has low fees for one reason - Nobody fucking uses it & the mempool is empty at the best of times.

This. It's simply hard to fathom that people think bch is going to overtake the real bitcoin, when barely anybody is using it today. Nobody gaf about this project outside of the project, this is the true sign of a shitcoin.

As far as Craig Wright and his bullshit antics, filing for a copyright on the bitcoin white paper is as un-decentralaized a concept as you can possibly get. This cock smoker could prove he's Satashi very easily by showing he has control over the million coin wallet, but since he's a fraud he can't do that. How anybody with half a brain could follow a project led by this schmuck is really hard to fathom.

el kaka22

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What do you expect them to do, just give up and let it die? I mean I do agree that including bitcoin cash all other bitcoin hard forks like bitcoin gold or bsv or whatever are all pure trash and they worth nothing more than 1 satoshi each to me, but that is to me, maybe its like that for you.

Nevertheless, we are faced with people who have spent time and effort and probably money on these coins and you are expecting them to just let it go and focus on something else, that is not really that possible at this current stage, they need to keep their hopes alive or they need to face the reality that the coin they put so much effort and money into is actually nothing and worth zero, its hard to make people face that reality and they will deny it until they actually see it happen.

LFC_Bitcoin

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Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then? I like both coins, and who the fuck likes paying higher fees?

BCH has low fees for one reason - Nobody fucking uses it & the mempool is empty at the best of times.

BitcoinHodler

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there is always people who are too gullible and believe anything they hear. that is the bread and butte of the scammers, they fool them into believing anything they tell them and build a hoard for themselves to pump the coins they had bought before and then dump on that hoard of idiots. that is how they have been making money all this time.

why do you think there is such a gigantic distance between bitcoin and the rest of the altcoins? it is because bitcoin is the real deal and it keeps rising up but altcoins get pumped for a while and then end up dumping eventually. bitcoin forks are the cheap version of pump and dump altcoins.

CryptoBry

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency. How can these people have become that delusional? without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

I am wondering the same thing. People have the tendency to allow themselves to get delusional and entertain wild ideas when they are seeing profits in front of them...such is the case of people proclaiming the virtue of BCH and BSV which they conclude can kill the real Bitcoin in due course. This is just like politics, I must say. These people promote their wares by destroying all their perceived enemies. At the end of the day, they are not aware they are actually killing themselves. We should not allow ourselves to be deceived by them and their self-vested interests.

rdluffy

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Hey, they did the forks only to generate money for themselves, nothing else

serjent05

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency.

This is all propaganda. In order to get people's attention and trust, they have to conspire against the main one .. Bitcoin. People often times believe a rumor than facts. So that is the reason why these copy cat often times surge in price. Aside from their pump and dump scheme of course.

Quote from: jseverson on May 24, 2019, 03:00:53 AM

I personally believe off-chain scaling is the way to go as I don't think simply increasing block sizes is sustainable, but I also see where they're coming from.

I also believe that off-chain is the way then solve all the transaction at the back-end. Adoption often times needs centralization or regulation.

Quote from: jseverson on May 24, 2019, 03:00:53 AM

The debate has become more political rather than technical though, which is why we have these absurd claims.

People wants the spotlight. That is the reason for it being political. It all goes down to personal benefit and agenda.

jseverson

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Well, their biggest argument seem to be rooted on Moore's Law, basically saying that technology will scale with Bitcoin's demands -- they can increase block sizes as needed because the ever increasing speeds of the internet and the ever increasing sizes of disk storages will be able to accommodate it anyway. It's worth noting that Moore's Law is more of an observation, albeit a still-standing one, rather than an established fact.

I personally believe off-chain scaling is the way to go as I don't think simply increasing block sizes is sustainable, but I also see where they're coming from. The debate has become more political rather than technical though, which is why we have these absurd claims.

pooya87

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency. How can these people have become that delusional?

they are not delusional, you are naive for not reading between the lines. what they do (and what others like ETH, XRP, DASH and a couple of dozen others did) is to advertise their shitcoin and get it pumped for a while so that they can dump and get their profit out.... rinse and repeat after a while.

Quote

without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

their lack of success is not about lack of SegWit or LN (LN can be implemented on top of BCH too). they reason why they have failed is that they are poor copy coins with no advantage and heavy centralization.

WinslowIII

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on May 23, 2019, 09:34:02 PM

Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

most of them seem to think low fees are required to garner adoption. i think they're mistaken......the 2017 bubble is proof of that. fees and price rose side by side the entire time.

high fees might discourage on-chain micropayments but they don't seem to discourage adoption.

The Lightning Network is going to come into play with Ebay, Amazon, Walmart etc online purchases. I understand it now, after ruminating over it for the last few months. More block sizes doesn't mean jack shit when we are talking about mass adoption.
And whoever believes these shitcoin forks have a future is delusional, they will just become asterisks in the history of bitcoin.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: WinslowIII on May 23, 2019, 05:33:15 PM

without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

most of them seem to think low fees are required to garner adoption. i think they're mistaken......the 2017 bubble is proof of that. fees and price rose side by side the entire time.

high fees might discourage on-chain micropayments but they don't seem to discourage adoption.

exstasie

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Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then?

Only by virtue of a very thinly traded market and Bitmain withholding mining supply. I don't think it's position is sustainable in the long term.

I assess things on a case-by-case basis anyway. Market cap isn't a major factor for me in assessing fundamentals. There are coins with much smaller market caps that are much more interesting and fundamentally sound.

Quote from: Dig Bicks on May 23, 2019, 08:18:28 PM

I like both coins, and who the fuck likes paying higher fees?

It'll be interesting to see how people feel about this issue in a couple decades.

We may not like paying higher fees, but it's a much more sustainable economic design (IMO) than BCH, which has the same dwindling inflation but no mechanism to ensure future mining revenue, since fees are so low.

Dig Bicks

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BCH is currently the 4th ranked crypto, you must consider everything a shitcoin then? I like both coins, and who the fuck likes paying higher fees?

WinslowIII

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I can't believe I'm reading some of the posts from the bch and bsv horde who actually think that the real bitcoin will die and one of these shitcoins will end up being the world currency. How can these people have become that delusional? without segregated witness and ln bitcoin itself has no chance gaining mass adoption, how the fuck can they think that increased block sizes could? Huh

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