BTC network will become centralized | Bitcointalksearch.org

ranochigo

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 04:15:55 PM

Quote from: knircky on January 23, 2017, 04:06:14 PM

Nodes are not a good indicator of decentralization. What is most important is that the mining process stays decentralized and cannot be infiltrated.

Nodes will always be cheap to run relatively.

As I understand it, nodes are storing all the blockchain. If all nodes decide to change the BTC blockchain software they can do it (hard fork). But they have to decide all at the same time.

They can. The nodes can definitely change their rules and fork it. However, note that no one is forced to follow them. Those who truly wants Bitcoin to have the older rules will run their own version of Bitcoin. Users will be able to choose whichever version of Bitcoin with rules they want to run.

Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 04:15:55 PM

Miners are only trying to get coins via proof of work. why mining decentralization should be important?

They also have control over the transactions they want to include and various other things. Lets say user A controls over 70% of the hashrate. With that amount of hashrate, they can perform a 51% attack which can disrupt Bitcoin. Mining decentralisation is arguably more important as compared to the decentralisation of nodes since it is much easier to run a full node than anything else.

franky1

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Quote from: MicroGuy on January 23, 2017, 07:59:46 PM

5MB IBM hard drive, 1956. Cool

"no its impossible for camera's to be digital, where a clear picture needs a server the size of a grand piano to store just one digital picture. lets boycott digital photography and devote ourselves to a 100 year contract with kodak and fuji film analog camera companies, to make sure they dont go digital ever"

MicroGuy

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5MB IBM hard drive, 1956. Cool

franky1

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Quote from: coolcoinz on January 23, 2017, 07:21:27 PM

I used to own that Seagate in the picture. It was a 2 or 3GB model. My smallest hard drive was 650MB. We used to collect every drive we could find, because buying a new one required a lot of cash, at least for a teenager it was a lot. Most people I knew were running 2-3 <5GB drives connected with ide, lan networks via concentric cables and run their own ftp servers with movies and music... You had to leave pc on for the night to download a small 300MB movie or a couple of mp3s from the internet... Sounds ancient? It was exactly 16 years ago!

i remember them days fondly..
back then if i was told a computer shoot-em-up game required 60gb(20x available space at time) and needed a internet speed that was 15x dialup.
i would have said its physically impossible. the shoot-em-up game wont ever work, no one will play it, it would require servers and warehouses of blah blah blah.

but today millions of people are spawn killing people online on Call of duty.. without a tear.

technology moves on and bitcoins requirements are well below todays available tech so we can increase capacity now and still have room to grow when tech grows with time.

dont play the "its 1996, call of duty infinite war is impossible, lets veto activision from ever making games forever"

coolcoinz

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I used to own that Seagate in the picture. It was a 2 or 3GB model. My smallest hard drive was 650MB. We used to collect every drive we could find, because buying a new one required a lot of cash, at least for a teenager it was a lot. Most people I knew were running 2-3 <5GB drives connected with ide, lan networks via concentric cables and run their own ftp servers with movies and music... You had to leave pc on for the night to download a small 300MB movie or a couple of mp3s from the internet... Sounds ancient? It was exactly 16 years ago!

franky1

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Quote from: coolcoinz on January 23, 2017, 06:55:27 PM

The cost of running a node will remain the same even in 10 years. Take a look at the computer market. 15 years ago everyone were used to having a 1-5GB drive, something like a 10GB would have been a luxury. Now most of us have a 500GB drives that cost less than that old 10 back in the days. There's no need for centralization.

20 years ago: 1-5gb

today: 128gb

20 years in the future:
"back when i was your age, people were crying that bitcoin needed servers when the reality was fingernail sized stores of data.. those were funny days"

coolcoinz

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The cost of running a node will remain the same even in 10 years. Take a look at the computer market. 15 years ago everyone were used to having a 1-5GB drive, something like a 10GB would have been a luxury. Now most of us have a 500GB drives that cost less than that old 10 back in the days. There's no need for centralization.

shinratensei_

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 04:15:55 PM

Quote from: knircky on January 23, 2017, 04:06:14 PM

Nodes are not a good indicator of decentralization. What is most important is that the mining process stays decentralized and cannot be infiltrated.

Nodes will always be cheap to run relatively.

As I understand it, nodes are storing all the blockchain. If all nodes decide to change the BTC blockchain software they can do it (hard fork). But they have to decide all at the same time.

Miners are only trying to get coins via proof of work. why mining decentralization should be important?

Because it won't be possible there is the high trust nodes and can change the blockchain rules.
See the private blockchain.

nara1892

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Quote from: Yakamoto on January 23, 2017, 04:20:49 PM

Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:06 PM

Hello,

I would like, like everyone, that the BTC network remains decentralized

However, as the time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to run nodes. Thus only big organizations will own the blockchain on there server. They will be able to act as central banks and do what they want with it.

How to prevent that?

It doesn't take that much to run a full node, and it is not going to get more expensive over time. Anyone can still run a full node and it is not going to be an issue for most users to take part in.

People who say it is too expensive are trying to justify why they don't have one running most of the time. There's a difference between just saying you aren't running one and trying to make excuses about it.

I agree. I think running a full nodes will not be that expensive. even if the cost of running full nodes will be expensive, I think bitcoin will be still decentralized system by the mining and something else. so just keep calm. everything is gonna be okay.

n691309

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:06 PM

Hello,

I would like, like everyone, that the BTC network remains decentralized

However, as the time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to run nodes. Thus only big organizations will own the blockchain on there server. They will be able to act as central banks and do what they want with it.

How to prevent that?

The blockchain size is around 108GB without txindex but the blockchain size is increasing more faster if we compare with the past years and that's why we see always full the blocks for a long time now. I don't think it is expensive to run a full node. And even though bitcoin will become centralized I don't think it will be fully centralized because there will be always some ways to get privacy.

klaaas

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:06 PM

hus only big organizations will own the blockchain

We all own the blockchain.

MicroGuy

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:06 PM

Hello,

I would like, like everyone, that the BTC network remains decentralized

However, as the time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to run nodes. Thus only big organizations will own the blockchain on there server. They will be able to act as central banks and do what they want with it.

How to prevent that?

The cost of computer resources is dropping. The cost and effort in running a full node might be slightly above the average consumer's comfort zone but there will always be an ample number of nodes to keep the network decentralized.

The greatest risks moving forward would be a developing fee market, a throttled main chain, and over regulation. Most likely we will be able to survive those threats which will result in the banks transitioning from fiat currencies into managing the private keys of customer accounts.

Yakamoto

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:06 PM

Hello,

I would like, like everyone, that the BTC network remains decentralized

However, as the time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to run nodes. Thus only big organizations will own the blockchain on there server. They will be able to act as central banks and do what they want with it.

How to prevent that?

It doesn't take that much to run a full node, and it is not going to get more expensive over time. Anyone can still run a full node and it is not going to be an issue for most users to take part in.

People who say it is too expensive are trying to justify why they don't have one running most of the time. There's a difference between just saying you aren't running one and trying to make excuses about it.

fred21

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Quote from: knircky on January 23, 2017, 04:06:14 PM

Nodes are not a good indicator of decentralization. What is most important is that the mining process stays decentralized and cannot be infiltrated.

Nodes will always be cheap to run relatively.

As I understand it, nodes are storing all the blockchain. If all nodes decide to change the BTC blockchain software they can do it (hard fork). But they have to decide all at the same time.

Miners are only trying to get coins via proof of work. why mining decentralization should be important?

knircky

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:06 PM

Hello,

I would like, like everyone, that the BTC network remains decentralized

However, as the time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to run nodes. Thus only big organizations will own the blockchain on there server. They will be able to act as central banks and do what they want with it.

How to prevent that?

Nodes are not a good indicator of decentralization. What is most important is that the mining process stays decentralized and cannot be infiltrated.

Nodes will always be cheap to run relatively.

franky1

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Quote from: fred21 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:06 PM

Hello,

I would like, like everyone, that the BTC network remains decentralized

However, as the time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to run nodes. Thus only big organizations will own the blockchain on there server. They will be able to act as central banks and do what they want with it.

How to prevent that?

expensive?
nope

if nodes cant handle a certain blocksize. they will orphan a block and the pools wont push the limit.

this "gigabyte blocks by midnight" rhetoric im sure you read somewhere is fake scare stories.

the community want consentual natural growth by the network agreeing what the network can handle.

natural prgressive network dynamic consensus growth

no big leaps to terrabytes a day or any other scare stories you have been told.

also right now bitcoins 8 years of transaction data can sit on a fingernail (128gb microsd)

maku

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How it is expensive to run a full node? You can use your machine, do whatever you like, and run a node on top of that. You don't have to do anything special.
The only requirement is downloading whole blockchain and keep your client running for 6+ hour a day, it will run on mediocre hardware...

fred21

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Hello,

I would like, like everyone, that the BTC network remains decentralized

However, as the time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to run nodes. Thus only big organizations will own the blockchain on there server. They will be able to act as central banks and do what they want with it.

How to prevent that?

Topic: BTC network will become centralized (Read 1105 times)