BTCST account for sale! | Bitcointalksearch.org

danieldaniel

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Quote from: E. A. Gail on August 25, 2012, 07:25:35 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bond holders do not get voting rights. They have to follow the contract like it or not.

If I want to sell the debt for 1 BTC then sell my liver to cover the rest that is might right and the bond holders can't do anything about it (other than bitch, cry and call me names).

I dont own any Tygrr bonds but i am curious and peeked at the contract.
One sentence in the contract is interesting:
"The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST."

Does this mean that the contract is violated if the bonds no longer are backed by
a BTCST account? (i am guessing that a liver is worth more though).

If it does mean that, Goat have to follow the contract like it or nor.

Edit: I know it should be "Goat has to" but the paraphrazing just looked better with have, at first.

...Doesn't he always have to follow a contract, like it or not?

danieldaniel

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Alternatively, I'm local right now (ish...India) and could bring you some of this...ummm...fine? Indian gold.

Hmm gold seems like a good deal. Since people expect a BTC crash anyway might be an awesome opertunity! BTW how is India?

Monsoony. I just got in and am sitting in a filtered-air environment waiting for my anti-malarials to become effective. I had all of biz to myself from DXB, though. It was a bit eerie.

Sounds lonely. My family and I had half of business on my way back from Africa.

E. A. Gail

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bond holders do not get voting rights. They have to follow the contract like it or not.

If I want to sell the debt for 1 BTC then sell my liver to cover the rest that is might right and the bond holders can't do anything about it (other than bitch, cry and call me names).

I dont own any Tygrr bonds but i am curious and peeked at the contract.
One sentence in the contract is interesting:
"The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST."

Does this mean that the contract is violated if the bonds no longer are backed by
a BTCST account? (i am guessing that a liver is worth more though).

If it does mean that, Goat have to follow the contract like it or nor.

Edit: I know it should be "Goat has to" but the paraphrazing just looked better with have, at first.

AndrewBUD

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^ People are funny...... This whole thing is a scare to get people to sell.

hashking

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At least I dont screw my investors or take advantage of them. I guess that is common for how you do business.

hashking

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Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:37:09 PM

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:28:54 PM

Also Pirate hasn't defaulted. He did state at the start of his unwinding that it could take up to 2 weeks. We haven't finished week 1. Of course Goat is going to say they are worth 0 because it is in his best interest to do so and nowhere in his original thread does it state if funds aren't returned in 72 hours that there is a default. As far as I know he has no power to sell them at a discount.

Quote

(25-08-2012 16:29:22) Chaang-Noi: im not really going to sell it
(25-08-2012 16:29:25) Chaang-Noi: but yeah i listed it
(25-08-2012 16:29:48) Chaang-Noi: sure, ill take 99% its value
(25-08-2012 16:29:57) Chaang-Noi: but im mostly fucking around

His only objective is to make bondholders panic. If/When Pirate pays him, he'll delay payment just enough to buy all underpriced bonds on the market and screw whoever he can.

He could ofcourse avoid all this discussion with a simple yes or no, but that isn't in his best interest.

This is why I have labeled Goat as and IDIOT. He did this last time with the whole nefario drama show. Goat loves drama and if he can steal people's btc while doing it he will.

sarpar

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Quote from: Scott J on August 25, 2012, 01:31:34 PM

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:23:12 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

The bondholders should have the choice as the funds are theirs. If they want to sell at a discount then the funds should be split evenly across all bondholders, not hit pocket.

The funds are not theirs. They have given them to Goat.

He only has to meet the terms of the contract.

One more time: In the real world it matters (also financially) whether you have a loan backed by a house or backed by Jack Sparrows good name.
That his bond is backed was one elementary part of the decision-making process of every investor. If sells the underlying without offering an equal collateral it is a breach of contract.

unclescrooge

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So we're just wasting our time.

Thanks for the entertainment Cheesy

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:28:54 PM

Also Pirate hasn't defaulted. He did state at the start of his unwinding that it could take up to 2 weeks. We haven't finished week 1. Of course Goat is going to say they are worth 0 because it is in his best interest to do so and nowhere in his original thread does it state if funds aren't returned in 72 hours that there is a default. As far as I know he has no power to sell them at a discount.

Quote

(25-08-2012 16:29:22) Chaang-Noi: im not really going to sell it
(25-08-2012 16:29:25) Chaang-Noi: but yeah i listed it
(25-08-2012 16:29:48) Chaang-Noi: sure, ill take 99% its value
(25-08-2012 16:29:57) Chaang-Noi: but im mostly fucking around

His only objective is to make bondholders panic. If/When Pirate pays him, he'll delay payment just enough to buy all underpriced bonds on the market and screw whoever he can.

He could ofcourse avoid all this discussion with a simple yes or no, but that isn't in his best interest.

Serge

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if you want to sell 40k BTC pirate account where the PPT is part of, buy out first all bonds, then do as you wish

Serge

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Quote from: unclescrooge on August 25, 2012, 01:05:09 PM

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:04:09 PM

Those funds aren't his to begin with. The bondholders should decide if they want to sell at a discount and take the lesser amount of bitcoins. If not they can wait and see if the full amount will be paid out. This is their decision not his. Just like they are not his coins.

+1

+40000

Scott J

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:23:12 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

The bondholders should have the choice as the funds are theirs. If they want to sell at a discount then the funds should be split evenly across all bondholders, not hit pocket.

The funds are not theirs. They have given them to Goat.

He only has to meet the terms of the contract.

hashking

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Also Pirate hasn't defaulted. He did state at the start of his unwinding that it could take up to 2 weeks. We haven't finished week 1. Of course Goat is going to say they are worth 0 because it is in his best interest to do so and nowhere in his original thread does it state if funds aren't returned in 72 hours that there is a default. As far as I know he has no power to sell them at a discount.

sarpar

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit

A sale of the underlying has the result that his bonds become more risky (Goat could default). He can't change the risk profile of his asset - usually an investor would request a markup or decide not to invest.

So it would be a scam.

hashking

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

The bondholders should have the choice as the funds are theirs. If they want to sell at a discount then the funds should be split evenly across all bondholders, not hit pocket.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:07:07 PM

If he does do this then he is a F___ing IDIOT. He just stole his bondholders money. I guess we will wait and see what he does.

Well he may be an idiot (although given the odds of Pirate repaying in full are low the buyer may be the bigger idiot). You thinking he is an idiot doesn't mean he stole anything.
Now IF Pirate repays in full and he doesn't honor his contract then yes he is a thief but .... pst secret hint .... that could happen regardless of if he sells or not.

Personally I believe Goat will honor his debts, I just think he realizes the odds are <100% that Pirate will repay. If you owned something you believed was worth less than what others believe it is worth the smart decision is to sell it.

MrTeal

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:07:07 PM

If he does do this then he is a F___ing IDIOT. He just stole his bondholders money. I guess we will wait and see what he does.

He didn't steal his bondholder's money. The bond was issued with the knowledge that it could be bought back if Pirate repays and would be worth 0 if Pirate does not pay. As long as Goat fulfills his obligation to pay out the bondholders in the unlikely event that Pirate actually pays everyone, then I don't see why he shouldn't be able to try to recover some funds.

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

The answer to your question is bolded on the quote below.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Just to make clear the bond is now dead or closed as BTCST has failed to send me coins with in 72 hours or make interest payments.

Pirate has defaulted

Assuming pirate will ever pay in full I will pass along the weeks interest and the face value of the bond.

Again this bond is now dead and to make clear if pirate does not send fund the bonds are worth 0 BTC.

Thank you.

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.
And one more little detail: As soon as Goat sells his account, Pirate will never pay him in full. Bondholders will never see their money.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 12:57:06 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

You are wrong here. If he sells the account for 10k BTC, then those funds belong to the bondholders. He can't just pocket 10K BTC. The debt is owed to the bondholders not GOAT.

No you are wrong. You bought an asset which is a derivative of Pirate's ponzi, but the terms of the contract gave you no right or ownership to the underlying asset.
Your have no right to any proceeds of the sale of the underlying debt, and nothing in the contract prohibits Goat from selling it.

One point is very clear, a sale doesn't change Goat's obligation. If Pirate defaults he owes you nothing. If Pirate repays in full he owes you the full amount.

sarpar

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Quote from: dree12 on August 25, 2012, 01:06:17 PM

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:04:09 PM

Those funds aren't his to begin with. The bondholders should decide if they want to sell at a discount and take the lesser amount of bitcoins. If not they can wait and see if the full amount will be paid out. This is their decision not his. Just like they are not his coins.

Your bank does this all the time with funds that are not theirs. There is no reason Goat should not be allowed to do so also.

banks have safeguard funds and collateral is regulated

but a simple YES/NO is not too much to ask

hashking

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If he does do this then he is a F___ing IDIOT. He just stole his bondholders money. I guess we will wait and see what he does.

dree12

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:04:09 PM

Those funds aren't his to begin with. The bondholders should decide if they want to sell at a discount and take the lesser amount of bitcoins. If not they can wait and see if the full amount will be paid out. This is their decision not his. Just like they are not his coins.

Your bank does this all the time with funds that are not theirs. There is no reason Goat should not be allowed to do so also.

unclescrooge

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:04:09 PM

Those funds aren't his to begin with. The bondholders should decide if they want to sell at a discount and take the lesser amount of bitcoins. If not they can wait and see if the full amount will be paid out. This is their decision not his. Just like they are not his coins.

+1

hashking

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Those funds aren't his to begin with. The bondholders should decide if they want to sell at a discount and take the lesser amount of bitcoins. If not they can wait and see if the full amount will be paid out. This is their decision not his. Just like they are not his coins.

dree12

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 12:57:06 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

You are wrong here. If he sells the account for 10k BTC, then those funds belong to the bondholders. He can't just pocket 10K BTC. The debt it owed to the bondholders not GOAT.

No, those funds do not belong to the bondholders. Goat is taking upon a risk here: if Pirate pays back, Goat will be 30000 BTC in the hole. If Pirate defaults, Goat should be eligible to pocket the 10000 BTC. Effectively, Goat is betting against Pirate here.

hashking

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

You are wrong here. If he sells the account for 10k BTC, then those funds belong to the bondholders. He can't just pocket 10K BTC. The debt is owed to the bondholders not GOAT.

unclescrooge

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

I know I know. Let's just wait for Goat answer.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

sarpar

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do answer the question!

BrightAnarchist

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Quote from: Hunterbunter on August 25, 2012, 11:57:15 AM

Quote from: server on August 25, 2012, 10:30:38 AM

Look in the mirror

...and learn from your mistakes...

So was he the dude hiding his face by any chance? that's my guessicles.

No, he's the one to the left of Goat, with the black hat on.

hashking

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Also what if you sold the account for 10k bitcoins and pirate paid. Are you willing to pay the 30k bitcoins out of your own personal funds.

Hunterbunter

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Quote from: server on August 25, 2012, 10:30:38 AM

Look in the mirror

...and learn from your mistakes...

So was he the dude hiding his face by any chance? that's my guessicles.

unclescrooge

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Goat please answer the question: does this account include your PPT bonds on GLBSE?

hashking

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GOAT if you sell the debt what are you going to do with the funds? Will these go back to your bondholders?

P4man

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Dont be fooled. The pirate clan is just trying to further debase the value of pirate debt by pretending to be panicking; Whether or not they should be panicking , we shall probably see next week when Vandroiys bet reaches its deadline, but Goat isnt selling.

Raoul Duke

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And you're still not answering...

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 10:43:13 AM

Even if Pirate defaulted the the rights to collect the debt would still be the bond holders not GOATS. So I hope he is trying to sell his own account and not the GLBSE account.

The way he avoids answering if the 40K BTC are all his or if they include the funds from the bond you can be sure what the answer is...

hashking

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Even if Pirate defaulted the the rights to collect the debt would still be the bond holders not GOATS. So I hope he is trying to sell his own account and not the GLBSE account.

EDIT: If he did sell it after a default all funds would have to be split up to all the bondholders.

Shadow383

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So, what's the deal here if you sell this account and then some miracle happens and pirate actually pays out?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd then be contractually obliged to buy back your PPT bonds, having already sold the funds used to pay for them?

I mean, that's almost certainly not going to happen, but still Cheesy

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 10:29:56 AM

And you're still not answering if those 40K BTC are all yours or if it includes your bondholder funds.
Let me put it in other words: You're scamming everyone that bought your bonds.

The subprime bubble was AAA+ compared to this.
I am shocked to not see any offer to buy 40K BTC of second-hand defaulted debt backed by an anonymous guy from the internets

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 10:29:56 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 10:24:48 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 10:15:48 AM

Are those 40k just your funds or does it include the your GLBSE PPT bonds?

Why would you ask me a question like that? Don't you know I am just a fussy prick?

Because you already told the bond holders that Pirate defaulted, hence their bonds are now valued at 0.
And now, here you are, trying to sell debt that isn't yours to sell.
I'm assuming a part of those 40K BTC are from the bonds. Your answer is a confirmation.

Do you know what the word "default" means? Look it up buddy....

And you're still not answering if those 40K BTC are all yours or if it includes your bondholder funds.
Let me put it in other words: You're scamming everyone that bought your bonds.

Lol, you sure are ignorant!

I know English is not you first language but really if you want to use big works like "default" and "scam" on an English forum look up the meaning first. God bless!

~love fussy prick~

The one who used the word "defaulted" was you, moron. Or don't you remember what you posted a few days ago on your own thread?

Quote from: ?? on ??

Just to make clear the bond is now dead or closed as BTCST has failed to send me coins with in 72 hours or make interest payments.

Pirate has defaulted.

Assuming pirate will ever pay in full I will pass along the weeks interest and the face value of the bond.

Again this bond is now dead and to make clear if pirate does not send fund the bonds are worth 0 BTC.

Thank you.

So, besides being a fussy prick you're also a scammer and a dumbass.

server

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1 BTC =1 BTC

Look in the mirror

...and learn from your mistakes...

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 10:24:48 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 10:15:48 AM

Are those 40k just your funds or does it include the your GLBSE PPT bonds?

Why would you ask me a question like that? Don't you know I am just a fussy prick?

Because you already told the bond holders that Pirate defaulted, hence their bonds are now valued at 0.
And now, here you are, trying to sell debt that isn't yours to sell.
I'm assuming a part of those 40K BTC are from the bonds. Your answer is a confirmation.

Do you know what the word "default" means? Look it up buddy....

And you're still not answering if those 40K BTC are all yours or if it includes your bondholder funds.
Let me put it in other words: You're scamming everyone that bought your bonds.

MrTeal

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Quote from: kangasbros on August 25, 2012, 10:21:08 AM

Pirate is running an affiliate program. He creates new accounts with some imaginary investments in them, and sells these to some greedy forum members, who resell them for profit. Great scheme!

(Disclaimer: the text above was just a joke. I have never invested in pirate fund or any other ponzi scheme, and don't know anything about them. Please don't kill me.)

It must be true.

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 10:15:48 AM

Are those 40k just your funds or does it include the your GLBSE PPT bonds?

Why would you ask me a question like that? Don't you know I am just a fussy prick?

Because you already told the bond holders that Pirate defaulted, hence their bonds are now valued at 0.
And now, here you are, trying to sell debt that isn't yours to sell.
I'm assuming a part of those 40K BTC are from the bonds. Your answer is a confirmation.

kangasbros

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Pirate is running an affiliate program. He creates new accounts with some imaginary investments in them, and sells these to some greedy forum members, who resell them for profit. Great scheme!

(Disclaimer: the text above was just a joke. I have never invested in pirate fund or any other ponzi scheme, and don't know anything about them. Please don't kill me.)

Raoul Duke

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