Bukele's Bitcoin City view. {Gallery}

jostorres

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Quote from: dezoel on May 11, 2022, 05:05:05 PM

Marketcap of bitcoin would build 100 of these easily and have leftover. I do not know what you think building places costs, but it doesn't really cost that much. For example, the highest paid one will probably be the airport and that could be done under 20 billion dollars, if you want to make it a bit smaller, and not luxury place you could get it done for like 5-10 at maximum and that it is the most expensive one.

Well, unfortunately, the whole bitcoin doesn’t belong to them.But even if it did belong to them, and they had the whole amount that is Bitcoin’s market cap, how sure are you that the amount is going to be enough for them to be able to build this city? You know this is a whole damn city? Or you think these are just few buildings?

Just look at that map of the city and probably thousands of buildings and designs and all that, do you think it would be an easy project to accomplish, since this is a whole city that we are talking about here?

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Quote from: Lucius on May 13, 2022, 05:20:25 AM

Quote from: stompix on May 12, 2022, 01:02:47 PM

The US and the EU area are trillion euros economies, imagine if the EU would plan to build a new capital and the price tag would be 15 trillion, do you see anyone agreeing to how marvelous such a plan is?

I didn’t literally think it could be the EU or the US, maybe some rich country with some fanatical ruler who wants to go down in history with some colossal project - which of course would bear his name.

Quote from: stompix on May 12, 2022, 01:02:47 PM

As for rich people that would choose to finance it, why would they?
What money can you get back from a city with no taxes, no vat, and no income tax, but full of running costs?

Maybe for the reason I gave above, or just maybe because they have money and want to spend it in some unusual way. Why does Musk so desperately want to send people to Mars if we know it will cost so much, that it is technically demanding, and in the end is there any profit in it? Estimates say that such a mission would cost several hundred billion dollars, which means that Bitcoin City is a fairly cheap project compared to that.

This whole project sounds like something The Emirates would do. As stompix described it, no vat and no taxes for me sounds quite like Dubai. Dubai in general has no oil, so the main income is from tourists, but don't forget that the wold biggest gold market is there. They have some crazy attractions so people all around the world would like to go and see.
The bitcoin city should probably follow the same strategy. To have something that many will want to go there and see it (experience it). But what would it be?

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Quote from: stompix on May 12, 2022, 01:02:47 PM

The US and the EU area are trillion euros economies, imagine if the EU would plan to build a new capital and the price tag would be 15 trillion, do you see anyone agreeing to how marvelous such a plan is?

I didn’t literally think it could be the EU or the US, maybe some rich country with some fanatical ruler who wants to go down in history with some colossal project - which of course would bear his name.

Quote from: stompix on May 12, 2022, 01:02:47 PM

As for rich people that would choose to finance it, why would they?
What money can you get back from a city with no taxes, no vat, and no income tax, but full of running costs?

Maybe for the reason I gave above, or just maybe because they have money and want to spend it in some unusual way. Why does Musk so desperately want to send people to Mars if we know it will cost so much, that it is technically demanding, and in the end is there any profit in it? Estimates say that such a mission would cost several hundred billion dollars, which means that Bitcoin City is a fairly cheap project compared to that.

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Quote from: OgNasty on May 11, 2022, 03:46:24 PM

They definitely have lofty goals and high expectations. It scares me a little bit since expectation is the seed of disappointment, but I have faith they're going to build something great, so long as the Bitcoin market keeps afloat long enough for them to achieve it.

I think the city looks great and it's awesome to know that lots of high paid government employees are putting a ton of work into creating this city. I wish them the best of luck and I know they'll need it. This has to be the biggest and most ambitious project in Bitcoin's short history. Sort of makes the old days of wanting to buy an oil platform seem a bit ridiculous in hindsight, but I don't think anyone expected nation state adoption so quickly.

The Bitcoin City is a great idea, but if the bear market persists, I don't think people will be interested in spending Bitcoin there at all. The downward sentiment in price will scare away investors than all the other way around. We'll have to see how successful the Bitcoin City will be once prices bounce back to their original levels. If Bukele plays his cards right, he might be able to turn the country from a developing one to a developed one. A first great start is to build the necessary infrastructure to spur the adoption of Bitcoin within the region.

The pioneer cryptocurrency is now legal tender in El Salvador, but more needs to be done to make people use it in mass. With high demand for BTC in the country, you can bet Fiat's (USD) dominance will decline for good. It's only been one year since BTC was made legal tender in El Salvador, so this is only the beginning. Just my opinion

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Quote from: Lucius on May 12, 2022, 09:03:18 AM

That's a lot of money, but on the other hand, if we take into account that the US recently approved as much as $40 billion in aid to Ukraine, or that the EU pays Russia about $30 billion a month for oil&gas, then it could be funded by a rich country or perhaps a wealthy individual like Mr. Mars.

The US and the EU area are trillion euros economies, imagine if the EU would plan to build a new capital and the price tag would be 15 trillion, do you see anyone agreeing to how marvelous such a plan is?
And it gets worse with every step down because once you force more on % the income it depends on how much of that income you have to spare, Germany could throw billions at something (the Berlin airports for example) but here we're talking about a country that spends percentage-wise half of the budget others do on education.

As for rich people that would choose to finance it, why would they?
What money can you get back from a city with no taxes, no vat, and no income tax, but full of running costs?

Quote from: Doan9269 on May 11, 2022, 05:20:04 PM

And he's not been antious because he understands what the implications of running dip and bull could mean in terms of disorganization of ones focus is loosed beyond control, then is the weak point to taking a wrong step, also he feels relaxed because he had already made a buy when bitcoin crashlanded at about $30k buying about 500 worth of the coins.

Let's fix this a bit.
He ordered some guy to buy 500 BTC with government funds, not from his own pocket.
It's easy to buy every dip and don't care about the value of your investment when it is not your money!
Just as he will not spend a dime on this city, it will all come from other people's pockets.

Lucius

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Quote from: stompix on May 11, 2022, 05:16:54 PM

Oh, and BTW, Salvador's GDP is 24 billion, building a city that costs your annual GDP and 4 times your entire annual government budget is madness.

I agree that this is a vision that from the current perspective does not look like a project that could be realized maybe even in the next 20 or more years, provided that El Salvador finds investors who would invest in something like that. That's a lot of money, but on the other hand, if we take into account that the US recently approved as much as $40 billion in aid to Ukraine, or that the EU pays Russia about $30 billion a month for oil&gas, then it could be funded by a rich country or perhaps a wealthy individual like Mr. Mars.

Even if there is money and construction can start tomorrow, the question is how long it would take to build such a mega project, not only in terms of time, but disrupted supply chains and lack of materials needed for construction should also be taken into account.

aoluain

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Quote from: Ale88 on May 11, 2022, 11:38:24 PM

Quote from: aoluain on May 11, 2022, 03:34:11 PM

* Who being people able to see their involvement in this as an investment
and those with a vast amount to invest and there have to be people
who will want to be involved, I mean if an Andy Warhol artwork can be sold
for $195,000,000 there has to appetite for this project.

The main concern is that at the end we're still talking about El Salvador, a country with serious safety issues, so to convince people moving there it's not only about the citadel but also about the whole country. Of course I really hope they succeed, thinking about a country that changes because of bitcoin it's incredible, this is going to be one insane experiment, can't wait to see the developments!

To be an investor I imagine you wont have to live there. Hopefully by the time the
project is well under way and possibly the first phase finished in a number of
years the country will have been transformed as a whole making it more inviting.

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on May 12, 2022, 12:54:17 AM

Quote from: stompix on May 11, 2022, 05:02:23 PM

As for the funding, it seems that the 1 billion will be for the next geothermal powerplant and half will be for buying the dip again, so the funds will be probably won in a lottery.

That is what worries me. I like the project, and I hope it materialises, but it was conceived or at least came out last year when there were very high expectations for bitcoin's performance. I don't know if the way things are going, he is going to be able to finance it. Well, better said: the way things are going, I doubt he will be able to get enough funds for it.

You can be sure Bukele and his team were/are not blinkered in thinking Bitcoins
value would increase without a few bumps along the way. There are many "Joe and Jane Soaps"
who are definitely blinkered in both ways about Bitcoins journey but we Bitcoiners know
its only going one way in the long term.

Financing this is going to be incredible it will certainly need outside investment
from people with the capital and appetite to see the future of this.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: stompix on May 11, 2022, 05:02:23 PM

As for the funding, it seems that the 1 billion will be for the next geothermal powerplant and half will be for buying the dip again, so the funds will be probably won in a lottery.

That is what worries me. I like the project, and I hope it materialises, but it was conceived or at least came out last year when there were very high expectations for bitcoin's performance. I don't know if the way things are going, he is going to be able to finance it. Well, better said: the way things are going, I doubt he will be able to get enough funds for it.

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Quote from: aoluain on May 11, 2022, 03:34:11 PM

* Who being people able to see their involvement in this as an investment
and those with a vast amount to invest and there have to be people
who will want to be involved, I mean if an Andy Warhol artwork can be sold
for $195,000,000 there has to appetite for this project.

The main concern is that at the end we're still talking about El Salvador, a country with serious safety issues, so to convince people moving there it's not only about the citadel but also about the whole country. Of course I really hope they succeed, thinking about a country that changes because of bitcoin it's incredible, this is going to be one insane experiment, can't wait to see the developments!

Doan9269

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Atimes I just imagine how unique is the thinking of Nayib Bukele, this man is full of innovative ideas and he is working closely to securing a better future for the entire El-Savadorans, lets take a look at it from this channel, while other were busy running ups and down amidst panic on the bearish move on bitcoin price, then is Bukele well concentrated on working to imorove the development of the country.

And he's not been antious because he understands what the implications of running dip and bull could mean in terms of disorganization of ones focus is loosed beyond control, then is the weak point to taking a wrong step, also he feels relaxed because he had already made a buy when bitcoin crashlanded at about $30k buying about 500 worth of the coins.

stompix

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Quote from: dezoel on May 11, 2022, 05:05:05 PM

Marketcap of bitcoin would build 100 of these easily and have leftover.

Lol, the market cap of Bitcoin just went down by twice this sum in the last day, how much do you think it's going to go down if you try to pull out...oh wait....

You know this market cap represents the value of the coins if they were to be sold at this price, meaning, if you could find a buyer for all 19million coins at 30k, right? Because there is not a single $ in bitcoin, you have 19 million coins and that's it, there are no billions of dollars hiding in safeboxes under CZ or Do Wong ass, as you have clearly seen from what happened these days. In order to get 20 billion from the bitcoin market cap, you will need somebody to buy 20 billion worth of coins and you would need those who sold their coins to invest in Bukele's fantasy, and why would you do that?

So, how much of your BTC do you plan on selling to invest in this giant pinata?

Oh, and BTW, Salvador's GDP is 24 billion, building a city that costs your annual GDP and 4 times your entire annual government budget is madness.

dezoel

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Marketcap of bitcoin would build 100 of these easily and have leftover. I do not know what you think building places costs, but it doesn't really cost that much. For example, the highest paid one will probably be the airport and that could be done under 20 billion dollars, if you want to make it a bit smaller, and not luxury place you could get it done for like 5-10 at maximum and that it is the most expensive one.

Building one apartment costs anywhere between 100k to 1 million dollars depending on the building, sure you can build one for 150 million if you want, but why? Why would you do that?

So, basically this project could be done under 30-40 billion dollars easily, without a doubt and I am sure you can get it done for 20 billion if you cut corners from some things. Considering some of them will be sold beforehand and during the construction, I am sure it will cost half of that. Is that a lot for them? Yes. Is it impossible to do? No.

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Quote from: Cookdata on May 10, 2022, 04:53:28 AM

The airport my drew my attention and all I could say is this is a mega project and it will take a lot of years to come to reality but I didn't see anything about FUNDING.

Yeah, it drew my attention too, seems like the one that designed that terminal thought airplanes are like cars and you paint the whole thing like a car park. If you look at any airport from La guardian to Charles de Gaule you will see there is no square in which you park your plane, nor are that different size for mini cars or trucks, nobody is going to park a second plane behind the one in the terminal.
All terminals have taxiways that are marked with a central line, not square parking spots.

As for the funding, it seems that the 1 billion will be for the next geothermal powerplant and half will be for buying the dip again, so the funds will be probably won in a lottery.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on May 10, 2022, 04:51:32 AM

I really hope that the color will not be so... uniform.

Eh, somebody had a ton of merci pralines that were going to expire so they've said, let's recycle them and build a diorama!
If you look closer you will see that the heat was too much and started melting, some of the skyscrapers are leaning toward each other. Grin

aoluain

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This is definitely something to be used on a collectible coin!

Quote from: TheBeardedBaby on May 10, 2022, 04:41:31 AM

OgNasty

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They definitely have lofty goals and high expectations. It scares me a little bit since expectation is the seed of disappointment, but I have faith they're going to build something great, so long as the Bitcoin market keeps afloat long enough for them to achieve it.

I think the city looks great and it's awesome to know that lots of high paid government employees are putting a ton of work into creating this city. I wish them the best of luck and I know they'll need it. This has to be the biggest and most ambitious project in Bitcoin's short history. Sort of makes the old days of wanting to buy an oil platform seem a bit ridiculous in hindsight, but I don't think anyone expected nation state adoption so quickly.

aoluain

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Quote from: Ale88 on May 11, 2022, 10:42:35 AM

Quote from: Cookdata on May 10, 2022, 04:53:28 AM

I didn't see anything about FUNDING

I was wondering the same. The project looks amazing, but who and how is going to finance it? Also, do the have any ETA? Because considering how quickly things change nowadays if it takes too long by the time everything is done it could already be old in a certain way.

As the modeling becomes more visual and detailed its clear its a really
ambitious plan but I wonder with the right selling points who* wouldnt
want to be involved is this?

* Who being people able to see their involvement in this as an investment
and those with a vast amount to invest and there have to be people
who will want to be involved, I mean if an Andy Warhol artwork can be sold
for $195,000,000 there has to appetite for this project.

The models really do look amazing. From a design point of view its by
no means OTT or unacheivable if we look at Dubai in terms of what
can be acheived, but yea its going to take a long time so there is really
no point in putting an ETA on something like this.

Len Saldua

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Anyone else worried about a major international hub built right next to a volcano ?

so98nn

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That is beautiful plan but is it going to be a reality sooner or later? Because I’m concerned that this is gonna be huge investment, and who will be joining this venture if it’s all idea and you have to move into it someday ? I have seen Dubai’s man made island becoming success over the time however did not hear a thing about any other project which got total success. Even we had Akon city concepts but they remained that way only - “concepts”.
Just hope that this one would be miraculous.

dkbit98

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Quote from: TheBeardedBaby on May 10, 2022, 04:41:31 AM

A think it's worth looking at. It looks really beautiful, I can't wait to share it in 1:1, but i guess it won't be during my life span.

You never know about that, and it could happen like in China, they built some of their cities so fast from zero that people didn't have enough time to move in them.
They even have ghost cities almost without people living in them like Tianducheng in Hangzhou that has smaller replica of the Eiffel Tower in typical chinse copycat style.
I am not saying this will happen with Bukele's Bitcoin City view, unless they hire Chinese workers. Wink

PS
City model looks very cool and futuristic.
Next thing they could do is some 3d presentation with animation.

Ale88

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Quote from: Cookdata on May 10, 2022, 04:53:28 AM

I didn't see anything about FUNDING

I was wondering the same. The project looks amazing, but who and how is going to finance it? Also, do the have any ETA? Because considering how quickly things change nowadays if it takes too long by the time everything is done it could already be old in a certain way.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on May 10, 2022, 04:51:32 AM

I really hope that the color will not be so... uniform.

It won't:

Quote from: Cookdata on May 10, 2022, 04:53:28 AM
Another question, is the city decentralized in a such a way that any citizen from any part of the world will want to move there? I hope Mr governments and the UN elites wouldn't intrude when this project is complete.
I'm not sure if this ^{[decentralized part]} is the correct way to describe it, but he did mention they're going to "build it with attracting foreign investment in mind" and IIRC, there were also some talks about offering citizenships to investors, so the answer to that question is "yes ^{[on paper]}", but I have a feeling it'd have a different outcome ^{[e.g. Russians]}!
For what it's worth, those mock-ups look amazing

Ryu_Ar1

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It looks really good but it sure does take up a lot of time and I quite agree with what you're saying it might be a little hard for me to see in real life as I'm afraid I'm not getting there.
but even so i really feel proud to see something like this and indeed it looks amazing

PrivacyG

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I am interested in hearing out more about it but currently it looks like more of a concept. Turning this into reality requires a lot of time, will, power and financial resources to begin with and I am not convinced it will get what it requires.

On the other, more positive hand. Bitcoin and Bitcoiners proved multiple times before they can exceed expectations. So maybe with enough ambition and will, this can turn into reality. Either way, I am keen on keeping a close eye on this project's development.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Cookdata

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The airport my drew my attention and all I could say is this is a mega project and it will take a lot of years to come to reality but I didn't see anything about FUNDING. I'm not an architect but I'm not sure if the market cap of Bitcoin alone can complete this project at the current price. From the tweet, there are more visual images that will require big budgets.
Another question, is the city decentralized in a such a way that any citizen from any part of the world will want to move there? I hope Mr governments and the UN elites wouldn't intrude when this project is complete.

NeuroticFish

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I really hope that the color will not be so... uniform.
And it does look great, but I don't think we should put up too many expectations into a politician's promises, you know...

PS. ~~Some of your links are broken.~~ ~~Still, one link (the one before last) doesn't point where it should.~~ fixed

TheBeardedBaby

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₿uy / $ell ..oeleo ;(

A think it's worth looking at. It looks really beautiful, I can't wait to share it in 1:1, but i guess it won't be during my life span.

(click on the pictures for higher resolution)

Source > https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1523799427856490496

Edit: Thanks NeutronicFish, links are fixed now

Topic: Bukele's Bitcoin City view. {Gallery} (Read 324 times)