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Quote from: countryfree on February 14, 2015, 09:42:50 AM

Sounds good except that you need to remove the commission for the news agent who sold the card. There's also the cost of printing that scratch card, its delivery to news agent all over the country, the cost of making the website which will enable the BTC transaction, that transaction fee and a cut for the scratch card editor to make the business profitable. So I certainly like the convenience of buying BTC cash at a nearby shop, but if I end up paying $20 to get $17 worth of BTC, I'm not sure there will be many people interested. You've lost $3. You could probably reduce that to $2, but you'll need to make a lot of volume...

Why should there be no/less commission for selling bitcoin this way? There is no reason why he should not be compensated for the risk/expense/time of selling bitcoin via token cards. (there is an especially large risk considering that these tokens are especially susceptible to theft while in transit to their destination).

It is a free market and the market will eventually decide what the appropriate price will be.

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Quote from: elm on February 14, 2015, 02:25:51 PM

please take a look here if that is what you mean

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113424/austria-gets-600-merchants-selling-bitcoin-overnight

https://www.bitcoinbon.at

Excellent example!

Now, let's check prices:

https://www.bitcoinbon.at sells BTC for €238

whereas

https://www.bitcoin.de (famous German exchange) sells them for €222.

The difference is for the convenience of buying at a shop, and paying cash.

tss

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this is a pachinko workaround which will not work in the US

in japan where gambling is illegal they play pachinko for tokens. they take these tokens to a nearby "unrelated business" and redeems them for cash.

in the west this will not fly. every news stand seller of your "gift cards" will need the money transmitters license.

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Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on February 14, 2015, 05:54:06 PM

Quote from: AlexAtom on February 14, 2015, 05:48:40 PM

Is'nt this what LibertyX is doing in the US?

Apparently so, but I've never heard of them 'til this post.

http://www.coindesk.com/libertyx-bitcoin-buying-2500-us-locations/ (from a little over a year ago)

https://libertyx.com/

yeah that's similar to what i was thinking, good to know that entepreneurs have started this kind of business, unfortunately i can't access the site as i am not in usa Sad

albert11

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Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on February 14, 2015, 04:28:37 PM

It's something like this right?

http://getprypto.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IBbirbO_jw#t=60

You do need to be reputable, before people start paying money for it, or else, it will make Bitcoin look more dodgy then it already looks like.

yeah it is similar, the only issue i see with cryptoscratch is that you buy a fixed amount of BTC, so if you don't spend them quickly after buying you are subject to btc fluctuations.

albert11

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Quote from: Bitware on February 14, 2015, 04:12:19 PM

Why are you publicizing your business ideas instead of secretly acting on them and bringing them to fruition?

well there is 2 reasons for that:

the first one is that any business/start up need a solid investment which i don't have, i am also the type of person that don't like to owe money to someone, i have never loaned a single penny to a bank or anyone for that matter and i'am not going to start today, i have a job that i love and stable family life and don't want to risk threatening that.

the second reason is that bitcoin is a very new industry and i believe there is room for everyone, i am a bitcoin enthousiast and really want it to succeed so i'm not going to keep my ideas for myself

albert11

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Quote from: elm on February 14, 2015, 02:25:51 PM

please take a look here if that is what you mean

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113424/austria-gets-600-merchants-selling-bitcoin-overnight

https://www.bitcoinbon.at

yeah that's the idea

albert11

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Quote from: countryfree on February 14, 2015, 09:42:50 AM

Sounds good except that you need to remove the commission for the news agent who sold the card. There's also the cost of printing that scratch card, its delivery to news agent all over the country, the cost of making the website which will enable the BTC transaction, that transaction fee and a cut for the scratch card editor to make the business profitable. So I certainly like the convenience of buying BTC cash at a nearby shop, but if I end up paying $20 to get $17 worth of BTC, I'm not sure there will be many people interested. You've lost $3. You could probably reduce that to $2, but you'll need to make a lot of volume...

if you look at localbitcoins.com for instance their price is 5 to 10% above market price, but that doesn't stop people from using it because it is very convenient, quick to get your btc, ID verification is not mandatory,etc.. and for those reason people don't mind to pay over market price.

but yeah i agree with you it needs to have volume to be profitable

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Quote from: steveturk on February 14, 2015, 08:46:58 AM

how would the shop make money ? how would the scratch card supplier make money?

my thought was that the business owner would charge a small fee for every FIAT to BTC trade on the site and would use that money to pay for the cards and the shop that sell them.
imagine if you could deposit fiat on BTC-e.com for example by redeeming a voucher bought in a newsagents, this will bring a lot of buyers to btc-e.com's owner website and so more comission from trading fees

Like someone mentionned in this thread, owner would need to have big volumes to be able to pay and make profit, it's not going to happen overnight that's for sure !

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Quote from: Bitcoinexp on February 14, 2015, 08:16:31 AM

I like the idea a lot. Could speed up mass adoption. I have a few question, based on your examples... you said that it is a scratch card, but you gave an example that 20$ price tag = 20$ worth of bitcoins. If it's a scratch card shouldn't there be a range of 'prizes' that the buyer can get? Just 20$ worth for 20$ is kinda boring for a scratch card. 2nd question, how would the bitcoins be maintained. Because it's price is volatile...through a site?

yes cards should have multiple values, i've mention that in my post

like 5,10,25,50,100 etc..

MakingMoneyHoney

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Quote from: AlexAtom on February 14, 2015, 05:48:40 PM

Is'nt this what LibertyX is doing in the US?

Apparently so, but I've never heard of them 'til this post.

http://www.coindesk.com/libertyx-bitcoin-buying-2500-us-locations/ (from a little over a year ago)

https://libertyx.com/

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Is'nt this what LibertyX is doing in the US?

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Quote from: Q7 on February 14, 2015, 03:15:26 AM

Then, how do they ensure that the private key has not been redeemed before or compromised? Also there's some opportunity for some fake scratch cards getting issued.

Note: I'm not against the business idea, just would like to know more how all these work

Have them be issued by a reputable organization...

MakingMoneyHoney

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It's something like this right?

http://getprypto.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IBbirbO_jw#t=60

You do need to be reputable, before people start paying money for it, or else, it will make Bitcoin look more dodgy then it already looks like.

Bitware

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Why are you publicizing your business ideas instead of secretly acting on them and bringing them to fruition?

elm

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please take a look here if that is what you mean

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113424/austria-gets-600-merchants-selling-bitcoin-overnight

https://www.bitcoinbon.at

R2D221

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Quote from: countryfree on February 14, 2015, 09:42:50 AM

but you'll need to make a lot of volume...

Yes, this solution can only work for mass production, otherwise it will be too expensive to do.

countryfree

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Sounds good except that you need to remove the commission for the news agent who sold the card. There's also the cost of printing that scratch card, its delivery to news agent all over the country, the cost of making the website which will enable the BTC transaction, that transaction fee and a cut for the scratch card editor to make the business profitable. So I certainly like the convenience of buying BTC cash at a nearby shop, but if I end up paying $20 to get $17 worth of BTC, I'm not sure there will be many people interested. You've lost $3. You could probably reduce that to $2, but you'll need to make a lot of volume...

croato

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This could be great, sure we need more simple ways to buy bitcoin. I think that is one of things which could make great push for mass addoption.

steveturk

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how would the shop make money ? how would the scratch card supplier make money?

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Quote from: noma on February 14, 2015, 04:00:24 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 14, 2015, 03:51:18 AM

Here in Germany you can buy a phone card with a bar code.
When you make your purchase a code is printed on your receipt. You then take that code to the online phone website and get credited for the amount.

It avoids people stealing the cards.

I think the QR code idea would be the most successful one. But how will you be certain the card had not been claimed before you bought it ?

Having the private key in stores makes it way too prone to abuse. The store manager would go to the card rack only to find they've all been scratched off and the coins gone.

A deal between the merchant and company is the way to go, they either have codes corresponding to the bar codes already loaded or they get paid upon sale electronically and are given a code. There's not a lot of up front cost if you don't buy the bitcoins until the actual sale. And it allows for people to buy it at market value at the time of purchase.

A receipt with "You have .12312809 bitcoins waiting for you at bitcard.com/IF3392J29LP"

Bitcoinexp

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I like the idea a lot. Could speed up mass adoption. I have a few question, based on your examples... you said that it is a scratch card, but you gave an example that 20$ price tag = 20$ worth of bitcoins. If it's a scratch card shouldn't there be a range of 'prizes' that the buyer can get? Just 20$ worth for 20$ is kinda boring for a scratch card. 2nd question, how would the bitcoins be maintained. Because it's price is volatile...through a site?

xDan

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I'm sure this kind of thing will be critical to widespread Bitcoin adoption. Making buying bitcoin as easy as buying mobile credit.

But it might not be worth doing until there is more widespread utility for Bitcoin... So, it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing.

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Quote from: noma on February 14, 2015, 04:00:24 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 14, 2015, 03:51:18 AM

Here in Germany you can buy a phone card with a bar code.
When you make your purchase a code is printed on your receipt. You then take that code to the online phone website and get credited for the amount.

It avoids people stealing the cards.

I think the QR code idea would be the most successful one. But how will you be certain the card had not been claimed before you bought it ?

It's like a gift certificate. The card has a unique serial number and is activated once you pay for it. For the company that issues it, it avoids locking money into a bunch of cards that are sitting on a display. For the merchant, it prevents theft of expensive cards. Until ringed by the merchant, they have no value. Finally, the buyer can immediately transfer the balance to his wallet if he wants or give it to someone else as a gift.

noma

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Quote from: Elwar on February 14, 2015, 03:51:18 AM

Here in Germany you can buy a phone card with a bar code.
When you make your purchase a code is printed on your receipt. You then take that code to the online phone website and get credited for the amount.

It avoids people stealing the cards.

I think the QR code idea would be the most successful one. But how will you be certain the card had not been claimed before you bought it ?

lolled

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Quote from: ajaxmoor on February 14, 2015, 03:46:08 AM

Quote from: albert11 on February 14, 2015, 03:24:39 AM

Quote from: Q7 on February 14, 2015, 03:15:26 AM

Then, how do they ensure that the private key has not been redeemed before or compromised? Also there's some opportunity for some fake scratch cards getting issued.

Note: I'm not against the business idea, just would like to know more how all these work

The scratch cards will not display any private key, just a random number that will credit your bitcash.com account with a fiat balance

Not sure about the fake scratch cards, for example when i buy a ukash voucher at a news agent i don't ask myself if the number will be valid or not , i know it will be because the company is reputable and i have never heard of anyone getting a fake code.
Iit will be the same for this company i guess, they will have to gain trust, would be interesting to know how ukash started their business too.

Definitely a good thing to have, but seems its also a way to be scammed. I wonder how does Ukash does it, but they don't have a system of private keys like bitcoin and a 3rd party can't really have the code without having to scratch the code.

Well the scratch code can always be the private key in this case so people won't be scammed by other users having access to the card.

Elwar

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Here in Germany you can buy a phone card with a bar code.
When you make your purchase a code is printed on your receipt. You then take that code to the online phone website and get credited for the amount.

It avoids people stealing the cards.

ajaxmoor

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Quote from: albert11 on February 14, 2015, 03:24:39 AM

Quote from: Q7 on February 14, 2015, 03:15:26 AM

Then, how do they ensure that the private key has not been redeemed before or compromised? Also there's some opportunity for some fake scratch cards getting issued.

Note: I'm not against the business idea, just would like to know more how all these work

The scratch cards will not display any private key, just a random number that will credit your bitcash.com account with a fiat balance

Not sure about the fake scratch cards, for example when i buy a ukash voucher at a news agent i don't ask myself if the number will be valid or not , i know it will be because the company is reputable and i have never heard of anyone getting a fake code.
Iit will be the same for this company i guess, they will have to gain trust, would be interesting to know how ukash started their business too.

Definitely a good thing to have, but seems its also a way to be scammed. I wonder how does Ukash does it, but they don't have a system of private keys like bitcoin and a 3rd party can't really have the code without having to scratch the code.

albert11

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Quote from: Q7 on February 14, 2015, 03:15:26 AM

Then, how do they ensure that the private key has not been redeemed before or compromised? Also there's some opportunity for some fake scratch cards getting issued.

Note: I'm not against the business idea, just would like to know more how all these work

The scratch cards will not display any private key, just a random number that will credit your bitcash.com account with a fiat balance

Not sure about the fake scratch cards, for example when i buy a ukash voucher at a news agent i don't ask myself if the number will be valid or not , i know it will be because the company is reputable and i have never heard of anyone getting a fake code.
Iit will be the same for this company i guess, they will have to gain trust, would be interesting to know how ukash started their business too.

To start this kind of business you would have to have a hefty investment and very good connection /partnership etc.. but if owner charges a small fee on their site for each trade i think it could be a big money maker.

I dont have investment and marketing skills to do that on such a big scale but im sure people do so thought i'd put the idea out there.

Then regulation wise not sure what the requirements are...

albert11

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Quote from: bitfilliates on February 14, 2015, 03:12:03 AM

Quote from: albert11 on February 14, 2015, 03:06:38 AM

here is an example of how it could work.

Say the company is called bitcash

The company will issue every newsagents with bitcoin scratch cards that have fiat value, say: 5$ cards , 10$ card , 20$ card , 50$ card etc...

Customers go to any newsagents, say he buys a 20$ card with cash

Then goes to bitcash.com , create an account with email,password and username

Scratch the card to discover his token, enter the token in the website and the 20$ balance will be credited automatically to his account.

Then he can just create a buy offer for whatever amount and will receive BTC.

bitcash.com will have a build in trading plateform as well as the redeem system.

Security wise i'm not sure what could go wrong unless operators issue fake/unredeemable token, in this case his business will sink before it evens starts

What would be the regulatory requirement of running such business?

note: bitcash.com was just used as an example,

So pretty much buying paper wallets but connected to a third party site?

No it is not similar to paper wallet, it is just a way for people to deposit money in a trading website without using a bank account.

Q7

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Then, how do they ensure that the private key has not been redeemed before or compromised? Also there's some opportunity for some fake scratch cards getting issued.

Note: I'm not against the business idea, just would like to know more how all these work

bitfilliates

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Quote from: albert11 on February 14, 2015, 03:06:38 AM

here is an example of how it could work.

Say the company is called bitcash

The company will issue every newsagents with bitcoin scratch cards that have fiat value, say: 5$ cards , 10$ card , 20$ card , 50$ card etc...

Customers go to any newsagents, say he buys a 20$ card with cash

Then goes to bitcash.com , create an account with email,password and username

Scratch the card to discover his token, enter the token in the website and the 20$ balance will be credited automatically to his account.

Then he can just create a buy offer for whatever amount and will receive BTC.

bitcash.com will have a build in trading plateform as well as the redeem system.

Security wise i'm not sure what could go wrong unless operators issue fake/unredeemable token, in this case his business will sink before it evens starts

What would be the regulatory requirement of running such business?

note: bitcash.com was just used as an example,

So pretty much buying paper wallets but connected to a third party site?

albert11

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here is an example of how it could work.

Say the company is called bitcash

The company will issue every newsagents with bitcoin scratch cards that have fiat value, say: 5$ cards , 10$ card , 20$ card , 50$ card etc...

Customers go to any newsagents, say he buys a 20$ card with cash

Then goes to bitcash.com , create an account with email,password and username

Scratch the card to discover his token, enter the token in the website and the 20$ balance will be credited automatically to his account.

Then he can just create a buy offer for whatever amount and will receive BTC.

bitcash.com will have a build in trading plateform as well as the redeem system.

Security wise i'm not sure what could go wrong unless operators issue fake/unredeemable token, in this case his business will sink before it evens starts

What would be the regulatory requirement of running such business?

note: bitcash.com was just used as an example,

Q7

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never heard about this before. Is it something like a scratch card? How does the coin gets delivered once payment is done?

bitfilliates

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I think this could work very well if everything is secure. If I am getting this right it is like a giftcard you can redeem but for bitcoin?

lyth0s

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Token would be the QR code for a small amount of bitcoin of which are swept into your own wallet. I think this is a very good idea OP.

Kprawn

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How do you make sure, that the "token" creator did not have access to the private keys of every "scratch card" he created?

We will see scams like this, pop up over night when this takes off.

It is a great idea, and it will surely make things easier for people to buy into bitcoin.. BUT the operator will have to find a way to make the token fully secured.

albert11

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I know this has already been done in several asian countries but i havn't heard of such service in europe/US/africa,etc...

The idea would be to be able to buy a token in any newsagents(could even be a bitcoin scratch card) and redeem it on a website for btc, a bit similar to how ukash operates, when redeeming the code your euro/dollar/etc. balance will be credited and you could then trade for btc on that same site/app.

Bitcoin aim to bank the unbanked but most btc exchanges require you to have a bank account so the unbanked don't have easy ways to buy bitcoin.
If anyone could just hand over some cash at any newsagent ,redeem and buy bitcoin with their smartphone it will help mass adoption.

This would also allow btc users to have more privacy.

let me know what do you think?

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